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Re: Future tours after august 1977

Tue Dec 11, 2012 9:38 am

jurasic1968 wrote:thank you very much for your information. I read that in July 1977 Led Zepellin atracted 62.000 people at the Seattle Kingdom. At the Silverdome, Pontiac Michigan (December 31 1975) Elvis had a 60.000 spectators audience,comparing with the Who (75.000). So I think Elvis could have comparable figures at the New Orleans Superdome or to the Seattle Kingdom.



If he could have, he would have :D

Re: Future tours after august 1977

Tue Dec 11, 2012 10:01 am

fg76 wrote:
Lonely Summer wrote:I have no doubt that Elvis' August 77 tour would've been a history making event. With EWH just out, I'm sure he would treat his adoring fans to more 74-style drug rants.


He was a different guy by 1977. He wasn't the rebel anymore. He kind of cussed in 1977 on June 19 while on downers, but he really wasn't anywhere near the guy he was in 1974. He was doing coke in 1974. Whether it was the liquid legal stuff, or the illegal stuff that people said he only tried a few times - Elvis was on something more than prescriptions in 1974. He cussed on May 3 during the breakdown during Polk Salad, but I don't see him being *THAT* Elvis again.

(Although there was evidence of that Elvis off-mic a few times in 1976, though. June 30, 1976 for example. So who knows? I'd like to think he'd probably used bad language in a jokingly way, instead of the verbal assault he did in 1974.)

Maybe you're right. Maybe he would've just made a few comments about the book and then attempted to move on. "I, uh, ah, some of you folks might have seen a book about me in the sores...uh, sores....stores.....anyway, I just wanna say, don't worry, I'm fine, I, uh, uh, I, uh, I never felt better...but if I ever meet than Steve Dunleavy, I'm a-gonna....ask him how Sonny and Red are".

Re: Future tours after august 1977

Tue Dec 11, 2012 10:16 am

fg76 wrote:
Rob wrote:I would like to think that the August '77 tour would have been one of his best in years. I also would like to think that the book thing would have been blown out of the water.

I just said I'd like to.


50% of the people out there already knew he was drugs

25% of the people thought he was just sick, and was a trooper for going out there

25% Were totally blind to what was going on.


I don't think so. Most people had no idea Elvis was on drugs and didn't really suspect it. Even the tabloids and movie magazines didn't speculate about drugs. The stories in the tabloids focused on his weight, and his love life. They talked about him being still depressed over Priscilla and his his love life with Linda and Ginger. No mention of drugs. The mainstream press pretty much only talked about his weight. All that we know now just wasn't known or seen when he was alive which is why "Elvis , What Happened?" was such a big deal.

Re: Future tours after august 1977

Tue Dec 11, 2012 1:19 pm

It was definitely going around. There was an item - very short, in the Random Notes section of Rolling Stone. Compared him to the last days of "Judy Garland." I may have a photocopy in my envelopes. I'll try to find it. But many knew.

And some just didn't want to know. Read Greil Marcus' obit. He had reviewed the book! And was totally shocked.

It's hard to understand.

rjm

Re: Future tours after august 1977

Tue Dec 11, 2012 2:31 pm

rjm wrote:It was definitely going around. There was an item - very short, in the Random Notes section of Rolling Stone. Compared him to the last days of "Judy Garland." I may have a photocopy in my envelopes. I'll try to find it. But many knew.

And some just didn't want to know. Read Greil Marcus' obit. He had reviewed the book! And was totally shocked.

It's hard to understand.

rjm


I don't agree. I was very dialed into everything Elvis from 1973 on. I bought every magazine with any picture or article with Elvis including all the movie magazines and tabloids like the Enquirer and Midnight Star. I don't remember that blurb in Rolling Stone and I had a subscription to it from 74 to the 80's. I would like to see it if you find it. There was just not any talk or articles about Elvis being on drugs, not even in the tabloids. I was involved with the Denver Elvis fan club and there were no whispers or talk about Elvis doing drugs. In the mainstream media there was no talk as well. They talked about his weight and his grueling tour and Vegas schedule. With what we know now, it's kind of hard to believe but none of this was known then and even bad concert reviews were very far and few between. When he played here in Denver in 1976 he did put on a good show and the review in the paper was. It's not that people didn't want to know, it's that they really didn't know.

Re: Future tours after august 1977

Tue Dec 11, 2012 6:53 pm

epf wrote: I beg to differ. Those shows talked about are '77 shows and imho he was in no shape to pull them off in a good way. Show me where the discrepancy is.


+1

Jokerlola wrote:
rjm wrote:It was definitely going around. There was an item - very short, in the Random Notes section of Rolling Stone. Compared him to the last days of "Judy Garland." I may have a photocopy in my envelopes. I'll try to find it. But many knew.

And some just didn't want to know. Read Greil Marcus' obit. He had reviewed the book! And was totally shocked.

It's hard to understand.

rjm


I don't agree. I was very dialed into everything Elvis from 1973 on. I bought every magazine with any picture or article with Elvis including all the movie magazines and tabloids like the Enquirer and Midnight Star. I don't remember that blurb in Rolling Stone and I had a subscription to it from 74 to the 80's. I would like to see it if you find it. There was just not any talk or articles about Elvis being on drugs, not even in the tabloids. I was involved with the Denver Elvis fan club and there were no whispers or talk about Elvis doing drugs. In the mainstream media there was no talk as well. They talked about his weight and his grueling tour and Vegas schedule. With what we know now, it's kind of hard to believe but none of this was known then and even bad concert reviews were very far and few between. When he played here in Denver in 1976 he did put on a good show and the review in the paper was. It's not that people didn't want to know, it's that they really didn't know.



Agree with rjm. Once whispers regarding Elvis possibly taking drugs were now a whole lot louder. Elvis was way overweight at 250 pounds and the prolonged substance abuse had taken its toll on Elvis. I can recall more and more Elvis fans talking drugs. Although DJs didn't come out and mentioned drugs, they were concerned about Elvis having more bad performances than good ones and saying "Elvis needs to take a break from his brutal schedules on the road and in Vegas."

The last person Elvis needed to lift his spirit was Parker. Elvis needed time away from touring, take a year off to get healthy-back into shape to renew his spirit, not by going on more tours.

Re: Future tours after august 1977

Wed Dec 12, 2012 1:26 am

Elvis was not 250 lbs.

Re: Future tours after august 1977

Wed Dec 12, 2012 2:47 am

DEH wrote:Elvis was not 250 lbs.

True. He was 249 lbs.

Re: Future tours after august 1977

Wed Dec 12, 2012 10:00 am

I guess after "Elvis - What Happened?" the people would have thought differently about Elvis. Maybe a lot of fans would have considered this book as a batch of dirty lies issued by some bitter ex-employees, but the future concert performances certaily would have proved that a lot of the drug-stories might not be made up. I am sure the yellow press would have jumped on that train. Especially when CBS would have started to shoot some additional performances in August and September, a lot of yellow press magazines would have considered it as another proof of Elvis bad condition.

If he had not died, it surely would have been a rough time for him. :(

Re: Future tours after august 1977

Wed Dec 12, 2012 10:39 am

A. C. van Kuijk wrote:I guess after "Elvis - What Happened?" the people would have thought differently about Elvis. Maybe a lot of fans would have considered this book as a batch of dirty lies issued by some bitter ex-employees, but the future concert performances certaily would have proved that a lot of the drug-stories might not be made up. I am sure the yellow press would have jumped on that train. Especially when CBS would have started to shoot some additional performances in August and September, a lot of yellow press magazines would have considered it as another proof of Elvis bad condition.

If he had not died, it surely would have been a rough time for him. :(



When EWH came out most fans DID consider the book a batch of dirty lies by bitter ex-employees. Who knows how the mainstream press would have handled it if he had lived. The book came out as a paperback which undermined it's credibility. It was then serialized in a supermarket rag, the "Midnight Star" which further undermined it's credibility. The thing that really cemented in the general public's mind Elvis's drug use was the toxicology report and the Geraldo Rivera expose' on 20/20. Then the topper was the Goldman book.

Re: Future tours after august 1977

Wed Dec 12, 2012 10:43 am

A. C. van Kuijk wrote:I guess after "Elvis - What Happened?" the people would have thought differently about Elvis. Maybe a lot of fans would have considered this book as a batch of dirty lies issued by some bitter ex-employees, but the future concert performances certaily would have proved that a lot of the drug-stories might not be made up. I am sure the yellow press would have jumped on that train. Especially when CBS would have started to shoot some additional performances in August and September, a lot of yellow press magazines would have considered it as another proof of Elvis bad condition.

If he had not died, it surely would have been a rough time for him. :(


He already prepared speeches, and was seriously afraid he got booed.
Elvis could have survived the whole EWH thing by getting medical treatment for his colon problems and getting rid of his drug addiction (easier said than done)

The best answer to EWH would have been blowing away his audience during great performances.
Somehow I don't have the feeling the August tour would have been like that.

Re: Future tours after august 1977

Wed Dec 12, 2012 10:59 am

Would Elvis What happened have sold that much if Elvis hadn't of died?

If Elvis hadn't of died it's possible that he could've just kept on performing and not say anything and wait for it to blow over.

Re: Future tours after august 1977

Wed Dec 12, 2012 1:48 pm

Brian, you're right. If Elvis didn't die,I think the EWH book had poor sales. So Elvis maybe continued in the same way (to declare nothing about it in concerts and change nothing in his lifestyle)

Re: Future tours after august 1977

Wed Dec 12, 2012 3:04 pm

jurasic1968 wrote:Brian, you're right. If Elvis didn't die,I think the EWH book had poor sales. So Elvis maybe continued in the same way (to declare nothing about it in concerts and change nothing in his lifestyle)


EWH was released during his lifetime wasn't it.
And I think it already generated a lot of sales at the time..

Re: Future tours after august 1977

Wed Dec 12, 2012 3:26 pm

rjm wrote:
jurasic1968 wrote:thank you very much for your information. I read that in July 1977 Led Zepellin atracted 62.000 people at the Seattle Kingdom. At the Silverdome, Pontiac Michigan (December 31 1975) Elvis had a 60.000 spectators audience,comparing with the Who (75.000). So I think Elvis could have comparable figures at the New Orleans Superdome or to the Seattle Kingdom.


So you are making a judgement on '77. You want him to have set records. But to what end? After EWH and the CBS thing, people would come for very wrong reasons. To see the wreck on the highway. epf is right.

rjm


Thanks rjm.

And you are right, people would come for a variety of reasons, including those you stated.

Re: Future tours after august 1977

Wed Dec 12, 2012 5:19 pm

jurasic1968 wrote:Brian, you're right. If Elvis didn't die,I think the EWH book had poor sales.

A lot of concert reviews were negative in 1976/77. Elvis was accused of being half asleep, mumbling and barely going through the motions. I am pretty sure this would not have changed from August to September of 1977.

There surely would have been reviewers who had read the book. And they would have connected the drug-stories to the poor performances and the yellow press would have picked up all these rumors. The bodyguards would have capitalized on it, would have given interviews and their book definitely would have sold better. Even the additional filming for the "Elvis In Concert" special would have been linked to the stories of a drugged entertainer. It all fit together perfectly and the yellow press would have made a big thing out of it.

I am not saying that Elvis would not have survived all this, but it certainly would have given him a rough time. On the other hand - maybe he would have realized that he needed help.

Re: Future tours after august 1977

Wed Dec 12, 2012 8:25 pm

A. C. van Kuijk wrote:
jurasic1968 wrote:Brian, you're right. If Elvis didn't die,I think the EWH book had poor sales.

A lot of concert reviews were negative in 1976/77. Elvis was accused of being half asleep, mumbling and barely going through the motions. I am pretty sure this would not have changed from August to September of 1977.

There surely would have been reviewers who had read the book. And they would have connected the drug-stories to the poor performances and the yellow press would have picked up all these rumors. The bodyguards would have capitalized on it, would have given interviews and their book definitely would have sold better. Even the additional filming for the "Elvis In Concert" special would have been linked to the stories of a drugged entertainer. It all fit together perfectly and the yellow press would have made a big thing out of it.

I am not saying that Elvis would not have survived all this, but it certainly would have given him a rough time. On the other hand - maybe he would have realized that he needed help
.


A. C. van Kuijk -- You highlighted excellent points.

And what about the October 12th, 1976 taped conversation between Elvis and Red? If the press found out, they would have had a field day with it.

The book was a big deal. What could have been called “sour grapes,” suddenly gains credibility... they would have connected the drug-stories to the poor performances.

For someone to put on outstanding performances show after show and then expect to deal with negatives reviews would have needed to be in great shape, both physically and mentally. Elvis was in poor shape, both physically and mentally. It would have been a matter of time for the press & media showing that Red, Sonny and Hebler were telling the truth.

This is a close up of Elvis in poor shape going out to give it his all. You can tell he was enjoying his short visit with that little girl... that was not an act... this is the way he really was with people!

phpBB [video]

Re: Future tours after august 1977

Wed Dec 12, 2012 9:17 pm

I remember an interview from years ago with a lady musician (Emmylou Harris?) and she said they knew. But he was respected too much to break the silence. But is was known. Water was definitely penetrating and eroding the dike.

When you think about it his death had an uncanny timing. Somehow he managed never to face without them knowing the truth to his issues. There is both comfort and sadness in that.

Re: Future tours after august 1977

Wed Dec 12, 2012 9:26 pm

epf wrote:I remember an interview from years ago with a lady musician (Emmylou Harris?) and she said they knew. But he was respected too much to break the silence. But is was known. Water was definitely penetrating and eroding the dike.


A musician that wasn't around Elvis wouldn't have known about his drug abuse.

It wasn't known by the majority of the people that Elvis was using drugs until his death.

That shocked a lot of people.

There had been speculation in the tabloids that he was on drugs but it was just that speculation.
and a lot of people don't take the tabloids seriously.

Re: Future tours after august 1977

Wed Dec 12, 2012 10:44 pm

Rhonda Barrett said people knew as early as 1974.

Re: Future tours after august 1977

Wed Dec 12, 2012 11:04 pm

fg76 wrote:Rhonda Barrett said people knew as early as 1974.


No, not the majority.

Rhona Barret could have seen Elvis give a bad performance and assume that he might of been on something.

But she didn't know what or have all the details until after his death.

If she says otherwise she's not being truthful.

Rhona Barret has claimed several things in hindsight that i'm skeptical about.

Re: Future tours after august 1977

Wed Dec 12, 2012 11:35 pm

epf wrote:I remember an interview from years ago with a lady musician (Emmylou Harris?) and she said they knew. But he was respected too much to break the silence. But is was known. Water was definitely penetrating and eroding the dike.

When you think about it his death had an uncanny timing. Somehow he managed never to face without them knowing the truth to his issues. There is both comfort and sadness in that.


Water was definitely penetrating and eroding the dike quickly by '77. Elvis' inner-circle knew how bad of shape Elvis was in...

LAMAR FIKE - He had to keep working. Elvis had a payroll that was phenomenal, and he had to keep a lot of people employed. By all rights, he should have never worked the year before he died. Everybody kept telling the Colonel: "Hey, back off. The guy's sick. The guy's really in bad shape". But Elvis had to pay his bills, and I suppose the Colonel had to pay his. I was on the payroll like everybody else. Today it wouldn't happen. Who goes to Vegas and works four weeks and does two and three shows a night? I mean this is unbelievable. The hotel put in a special, larger concert room that holds four thousand people because Elvis only wanted to work one show a night. I think Fred Allen put it great when he said, "It's called a treadmill to oblivion".

Image
Dick Grob, Sonny, Red, Elvis Jerry Schilling, Lamar, Joe and Vernon.

Re: Future tours after august 1977

Thu Dec 13, 2012 12:28 am

fg76 wrote:Rhonda Barrett said people knew as early as 1974.

brian wrote:Rhona Barret.

Image

Re: Future tours after august 1977

Thu Dec 13, 2012 12:45 am

Wow, the comments by Lamar Fike make it clear that Elvis probably seemed like he was "caught in a trap," no pun intended. There is a big difference in one's psyche between wanting to do something and feeling like you have to do something. 1977, and perhaps even 1976, so sad it seems for Elvis....

rlj

Re: Future tours after august 1977

Thu Dec 13, 2012 6:08 am

I seem to recall that there was a lot anger at and shooting of the messengers (EWH? book) back in the summer of '77 and the months that followed. Lots of denial and confusion in addition, of course, to the grief. All the signs were there for those knowledgeable enough to recognize or those privy to the goings-on within EP's inner circle. The EWH? book tormented our hero those last days of his life. And yes, EP had his own copy, read it and heavily marked it up.

The scheduling of future tours beyond August of 1977 was a reflection of EP's management's state of hopeful denial in maintaining the status quo. Then, on the 16th, the wheels came off of Parker's wagon (but he put 'em back on, changed directions and kept on going anyway).


N8
... just a fan ....