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Re: From Hawaii to Las Vegas FTD mastered 5% too slow.

Thu Dec 06, 2012 9:40 pm

poormadpeter wrote:
Tony.. wrote:
Pete Dube wrote:Why in God's name should the consumer have to get audacity and change the speed? It's the product provider/creator that should correct the speed before issuing the product. I've said it before and I'll say it again: there's long been a need for a quality control person for FTD product.


And I'm sure you'd find many here that would give their services, advice and know-how for free.


Perhaps he hired one of them, and now they are vigorously defending their work on internet forums!


Another classic. Keep 'em coming!! :lol: :lol:

Re: From Hawaii to Las Vegas FTD mastered 5% too slow.

Thu Dec 06, 2012 11:05 pm

Johnny2523 wrote:once again... people complain. Ernst gives us something New not released before.. and you guys are fighting about 5% speed difference...

Although the small percentage cannot finish their complaints on this topic, at the end of the day, the point is true.

Just to be absolutely sure, I revisited my copy of From Hawaii To Las Vegas and indeed the songs are a half-step slow (eg. "Love Me" in key of E instead of F).

You know what? I hadn't noticed because I was so damn excited to hear a new, unreleased rehearsal, with interesting selections like "Faded Love" and, of course, "Separate Ways." Presley apparently never offered a live version of "Separate Ways," a very good ballad with a very personal lyric. So this was a special find indeed. It was neat to confirm Elvis was still addressing his show in a professional, amiable manner, being so deliberate in reviewing the songs he would present on his sixth visit to Las Vegas. So soon this would slip, and there would be no going back.

Another nice bonus was the previously-unseen January 1973 Las Vegas stage photos used in the package art, of which there are not very many. Elvis looks pretty good!


120524_From Hawaii To Las Vegas_FTD.JPG
From Hawaii To Las Vegas (FTD, May 2012)


And it was also cool to be aware of the effort that went into acquiring this tape. It didn't just appear on Ernst's desk one day -- it took research, patience and negotiations to land the recording, and get it out to the fans. No one at Sony would be aware that this lo-fi, 40 year-old cassette would be deeply meaningful to the hard core fans and worth the time, effort and money. But Ernst is not a corporate suit, he is a deep fan. And that is why this and many other exclusive, rare and cool tracks are now in many of our collections, forever.

But it doesn't excuse that the 1973 tape is slightly off-pitch.

So, for those of you who clearly dislike the occasional typo, or mastering error, or photo book developed by second parties, or track selection, or album reissue choice by the Follow That Dream label ... DON'T BUY IT.

Hitting the bottom line is the surest way to be heard.

This topic has gone a long way to establish as fact that, since 1999, about 10% of the FTD releases betray one of the above flaws. So, again, show the label how much this bothers you ... DON'T BUY IT.

Me? Like many here, I'm going to keep buying the FTD CDs because, despite that 10%, they add to my enjoyment of the man, his music and how he changed the world.

Thank you.

::rocks
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Re: From Hawaii to Las Vegas FTD mastered 5% too slow.

Thu Dec 06, 2012 11:19 pm

drjohncarpenter wrote:And it was also cool to be aware of the effort that went into acquiring this tape. It didn't just appear on Ernst's desk one day -- it took research, patience and negotiations to land the recording, and get it out to the fans. No one at Sony would be aware that this lo-fi, 40 year-old cassette would be deeply meaningful to the hard core fans and worth the time, effort and money. But Ernst is not a corporate suit, he is a deep fan. And that is why this and many other exclusive, rare and cool tracks are now in many of our collections, forever.

But it doesn't excuse that the 1973 tape is slightly off-pitch.

So, for those of you who clearly dislike the occasional typo, or mastering error, or photo book developed by second parties, or track selection, or album reissue choice by the Follow That Dream label ... DON'T BUY IT.

Hitting the bottom line is the surest way to be heard.

This topic has gone a long way to establish as fact that, since 1999, about 10% of the FTD releases betray one of the above flaws. So, again, show the label how much this bothers you ... DON'T BUY IT.

Me? Like many here, I'm going to keep buying the FTD CDs because, despite that 10%, they add to my enjoyment of the man, his music and how he changed the world.



Very well said, DOC!! Thanks and please keep these coming Ernst!

rlj

Re: From Hawaii to Las Vegas FTD mastered 5% too slow.

Thu Dec 06, 2012 11:26 pm

drjohncarpenter wrote: it doesn't excuse that the 1973 tape is slightly off-pitch.


Sorry, had to put it in big letters so we can remember the one occasion when Doc said something negative about an FTD release!

Re: From Hawaii to Las Vegas FTD mastered 5% too slow.

Thu Dec 06, 2012 11:29 pm

rlj4ep wrote:
drjohncarpenter wrote:
Johnny2523 wrote:once again... people complain. Ernst gives us something New not released before.. and you guys are fighting about 5% speed difference...

Although the small percentage cannot finish their complaints on this topic, at the end of the day, the point is true.

Just to be absolutely sure, I revisited my copy of From Hawaii To Las Vegas and indeed the songs are a half-step slow (eg. "Love Me" in key of E instead of F).

You know what? I hadn't noticed because I was so damn excited to hear a new, unreleased rehearsal, with interesting selections like "Faded Love" and, of course, "Separate Ways." Presley apparently never offered a live version of "Separate Ways," a very good ballad with a very personal lyric. So this was a special find indeed. It was neat to confirm Elvis was still addressing his show in a professional, amiable manner, being so deliberate in reviewing the songs he would present on his sixth visit to Las Vegas. So soon this would slip, and there would be no going back.

Another nice bonus was the previously-unseen January 1973 Las Vegas stage photos used in the package art, of which there are not very many. Elvis looks pretty good!


120524_From Hawaii To Las Vegas_FTD.JPG
From Hawaii To Las Vegas (FTD, May 2012)


And it was also cool to be aware of the effort that went into acquiring this tape. It didn't just appear on Ernst's desk one day -- it took research, patience and negotiations to land the recording, and get it out to the fans. No one at Sony would be aware that this lo-fi, 40 year-old cassette would be deeply meaningful to the hard core fans and worth the time, effort and money. But Ernst is not a corporate suit, he is a deep fan. And that is why this and many other exclusive, rare and cool tracks are now in many of our collections, forever.

But it doesn't excuse that the 1973 tape is slightly off-pitch.

So, for those of you who clearly dislike the occasional typo, or mastering error, or photo book developed by second parties, or track selection, or album reissue choice by the Follow That Dream label ... DON'T BUY IT.

Hitting the bottom line is the surest way to be heard.

This topic has gone a long way to establish as fact that, since 1999, about 10% of the FTD releases betray one of the above flaws. So, again, show the label how much this bothers you ... DON'T BUY IT.

Me? Like many here, I'm going to keep buying the FTD CDs because, despite that 10%, they add to my enjoyment of the man, his music and how he changed the world.

Thank you.

::rocks

Very well said, DOC!! Thanks and please keep these coming Ernst!

rlj

Thank you.
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Re: From Hawaii to Las Vegas FTD mastered 5% too slow.

Thu Dec 06, 2012 11:43 pm

drjohncarpenter wrote:And it was also cool to be aware of the effort that went into acquiring this tape. It didn't just appear on Ernst's desk one day -- it took research, patience and negotiations to land the recording, and get it out to the fans. No one at Sony would be aware that this lo-fi, 40 year-old cassette would be deeply meaningful to the hard core fans and worth the time, effort and money.

Which is precisely why it is baffling all this effort would fall at the last hurdle - presenting it correctly. It would not have increased the budget needed to get the CD out.

As for the don't buy it passive aggressive protest - it's doomed to failure as it's been proven time and again that the core of the consumer base will buy absolutely anything, warts and all, and merely shrug saying things like "fix it yourself", or "I don't care, I'm just happy to have it", or "we should count our lucky stars", or "it's a nice collection of songs." It seems those of us who actually want the bar kept high, that demand a basic level of production quality are a fringe element. FTD don't have to worry about correcting mastering mistakes anymore because the core base will lap up the product anyway.

When another production issue occurred recently with Are You Sincere on Our Memories Of Elvis I had an epiphany - the dealers need to take action on this, they're the 'retailers' after all. "Pull the stock from the racks" I said, "return the stock back to FTD" I said, "demand action" I said. Dealers were complaining in reviews and on forums about the mastering error but failed to realise they have the real power to do something, to send a clear message to FTD - if it's hard to obtain then many wont be able to buy it, FTD sales will fall on said title. Did they "do something"? Nope - all bark and no bite.

And so those of us on the fringe are left in the precarious position of having to just suck it up if we want the audio at all. Suck it up that despite paying a premium for the CD that should be played, that we'll have to burn ourselves a pitch-corrected CD-R (IF one knows how) to file alongside the FTD release. Hmm.

Re: From Hawaii to Las Vegas FTD mastered 5% too slow.

Fri Dec 07, 2012 12:22 am

drjohncarpenter wrote:
You know what? I hadn't noticed because I was so damn excited to hear a new, unreleased rehearsal, with interesting selections like "Faded Love" and, of course, "Separate Ways." Presley apparently never offered a live version of "Separate Ways," a very good ballad with a very personal lyric. So this was a special find indeed. It was neat to confirm Elvis was still addressing his show in a professional, amiable manner, being so deliberate in reviewing the songs he would present on his sixth visit to Las Vegas. So soon this would slip, and there would be no going back.

Another nice bonus was the previously-unseen January 1973 Las Vegas stage photos used in the package art, of which there are not very many. Elvis looks pretty good!

And it was also cool to be aware of the effort that went into acquiring this tape. It didn't just appear on Ernst's desk one day -- it took research, patience and negotiations to land the recording, and get it out to the fans. No one at Sony would be aware that this lo-fi, 40 year-old cassette would be deeply meaningful to the hard core fans and worth the time, effort and money. But Ernst is not a corporate suit, he is a deep fan. And that is why this and many other exclusive, rare and cool tracks are now in many of our collections, forever.


You have just given the argument as to why Ernst should have made sure this release got the best treatment and was released error free.

Given the "time, effort and money" in obtaining this "new, unreleased material", releasing it 5% too slow is totally unforgivable. Is it not?

Re: From Hawaii to Las Vegas FTD mastered 5% too slow.

Fri Dec 07, 2012 12:37 am

Not when only about 5% (!) of us are actually bothered by such things.

Re: From Hawaii to Las Vegas FTD mastered 5% too slow.

Fri Dec 07, 2012 1:01 am

It's getting a bit like the Memphis Mafia in here sometimes - with everybody being "yes men", adding "+1" at the end of certain people's posts, and seemingly afraid to say something out of turn in case they get chucked out or no longer get what they want.

Re: From Hawaii to Las Vegas FTD mastered 5% too slow.

Fri Dec 07, 2012 1:51 am

why should the FECC contributers be afraid of getting "Chucked out" if what they're saying is reasonable ? Only the total morons and those with axes to grind against Ernst should.

Re: From Hawaii to Las Vegas FTD mastered 5% too slow.

Fri Dec 07, 2012 2:32 am

Robt wrote:why should the FECC contributers be afraid of getting "Chucked out" if what they're saying is reasonable ? Only the total morons and those with axes to grind against Ernst should.


Yes, "chucked out" was rather a weird case of wording on my part! What I meant to say is that people are scared of saying that something is unacceptable (or even not buying certain sub-par FTD products) in case FTD suddenly closes its doors and gives us nothing else on account of it.

Re: From Hawaii to Las Vegas FTD mastered 5% too slow.

Fri Dec 07, 2012 2:35 am

poormadpeter wrote:It's getting a bit like the Memphis Mafia in here sometimes - with everybody being "yes men", adding "+1" at the end of certain people's posts, and seemingly afraid to say something out of turn in case they get chucked out or no longer get what they want.


+1 :)

Re: From Hawaii to Las Vegas FTD mastered 5% too slow.

Fri Dec 07, 2012 4:10 am

memfisking wrote:You have just given the argument as to why Ernst should have made sure this release got the best treatment and was released error free.
Given the "time, effort and money" in obtaining this "new, unreleased material", releasing it 5% too slow is totally unforgivable. Is it not?

OK so you say it's "unforgivable"... now what? Should we simply stop supporting the label because of this? Like mistakes have never happened with anything else you've ever purchased in your life??? Should they incur the costs involved in recalling every single CD purchased and reproducing new ones at the correct speed? Maybe they should... and the point had been made somewhere in this post that more time should be spent on quality control on these CD's and perhaps they're right... moving forward... but to say this mistake is "unforgivable"??? Really??? What does that mean exactly? PS. I can guarantee you that Ernst checks this forum on a semi-regular basis...

Re: From Hawaii to Las Vegas FTD mastered 5% too slow.

Fri Dec 07, 2012 4:14 am

poormadpeter wrote:Yes, "chucked out" was rather a weird case of wording on my part! What I meant to say is that people are scared of saying that something is unacceptable (or even not buying certain sub-par FTD products) in case FTD suddenly closes its doors and gives us nothing else on account of it.

It is possible that not everyone sees things the same way... or if they do, feel the need to complain about it... or make a listing of each and every error or omission on each and every FTD release. I don't have an issue with anyone pointing out mistakes for product they paid for, but there is a tendency to blow things out of proportion on this form.

Re: From Hawaii to Las Vegas FTD mastered 5% too slow.

Fri Dec 07, 2012 4:27 am

releasing it 5% too slow is totally unforgivable. Is it not?


Umm, yeah ... it IS forgivable.

i've forgiven far worse.

If you haven't, you must be a real s---, indeed.

Re: From Hawaii to Las Vegas FTD mastered 5% too slow.

Fri Dec 07, 2012 5:00 am

Bootleggers and FTD have all made mistakes in the past and looking back maybe wish they had done things better!.
with FTD remember the CLAIMS about the Richmond 18/3/74 show sound!!!! and leaving FTD aside here remember the public anouncement about 6th release from the Lone Star label first announced that "Man In White Vol. 2" would contain the matinee show from Huntsville, Alabama, September 6 1976. Not that interesting perhaps, after all the evening show was released two years ago on the CD Still Rocking The Nation and guess what it turned out to be EXACT SAME show as released a year b4!!!!!!!!!!!! :oops: :oops:
Still (i wish) people releasing CD's could do a better job!!!!

Re: From Hawaii to Las Vegas FTD mastered 5% too slow.

Fri Dec 07, 2012 5:38 am

elvis-fan wrote:
memfisking wrote:You have just given the argument as to why Ernst should have made sure this release got the best treatment and was released error free.
Given the "time, effort and money" in obtaining this "new, unreleased material", releasing it 5% too slow is totally unforgivable. Is it not?

OK so you say it's "unforgivable"... now what? Should we simply stop supporting the label because of this? Like mistakes have never happened with anything else you've ever purchased in your life??? Should they incur the costs involved in recalling every single CD purchased and reproducing new ones at the correct speed? Maybe they should... and the point had been made somewhere in this post that more time should be spent on quality control on these CD's and perhaps they're right... moving forward... but to say this mistake is "unforgivable"??? Really??? What does that mean exactly? PS. I can guarantee you that Ernst checks this forum on a semi-regular basis...


And thereby lies the problem. By not recalling the discs or even admitting publicly that there is a problem, FTD are basically saying "so, what are you going to do about it?". And we have to put up or shut up.

As for should they recall the discs? Of course they should. We pay them to do a job. If they don't do it, then they pay the price. And, hopefully learn from the money spent on reprinting discs that they should be a bit more careful in the future.

Re: From Hawaii to Las Vegas FTD mastered 5% too slow.

Fri Dec 07, 2012 5:51 am

elvissessions wrote:
memfisking wrote:releasing it 5% too slow is totally unforgivable. Is it not?


Umm, yeah ... it IS forgivable.

i've forgiven far worse.

If you haven't, you must be a real s---, indeed.

:D

Re: From Hawaii to Las Vegas FTD mastered 5% too slow.

Fri Dec 07, 2012 6:01 am

Matthew wrote:
elvissessions wrote:
elvissessions wrote:So, what's the percentage speed-correction estimate on Live in LA?


Seriously, I would like to know.

It's been a while. I will need to dig it out and check, unless someone else has the info to hand.

Live In LA also needs to be sped up around 5% to run at the right speed.

Re: From Hawaii to Las Vegas FTD mastered 5% too slow.

Fri Dec 07, 2012 6:12 am

Matthew wrote:Live In LA also needs to be sped up around 5% to run at the right speed.

That's right. It was later released at the correct speed as a bootleg called "Late Night In L.A" (Verve, 2011).
http://www.elvisnews.com/news.aspx/late-night-in-la/13623

Re: From Hawaii to Las Vegas FTD mastered 5% too slow.

Fri Dec 07, 2012 6:22 am

Actually the Bootleg of the L.A. E/S i bought and was extremely impressed as to how much better it sounded- or more likely at correct speed!~ :lol:

Re: From Hawaii to Las Vegas FTD mastered 5% too slow.

Fri Dec 07, 2012 6:53 am

JimmyCool wrote:
Matthew wrote:Live In LA also needs to be sped up around 5% to run at the right speed.

That's right. It was later released at the correct speed as a bootleg called "Late Night In L.A" (Verve, 2011).
http://www.elvisnews.com/news.aspx/late-night-in-la/13623

FTD had an opportunity to correct this error when they re-issued the CD separately from the 2007 book last year. But alas...

Re: From Hawaii to Las Vegas FTD mastered 5% too slow.

Fri Dec 07, 2012 7:37 am

The Pirate wrote:Yeah, that's what the mechanic is always telling me at the garage when I take my car in for a service. "Look," he says "I just put the brakes back in roughly the right place, your job is to make sure that all the pipes and stuff are connected properly so you don't die when you're going down the motorway."


You're missing the point. If we were talking about cars, you'd have a point. We're talking about music, and sometimes we need to be thankful God allows us to get up in the morning and breathe at all. We should be worshiping Him, and not worshiping Elvis Presley anyways. (I'm preaching to myself too, because I'm still a fan.)

Re: From Hawaii to Las Vegas FTD mastered 5% too slow.

Fri Dec 07, 2012 9:00 am

Matthew wrote:
Matthew wrote:
elvissessions wrote:
elvissessions wrote:So, what's the percentage speed-correction estimate on Live in LA?


Seriously, I would like to know.

It's been a while. I will need to dig it out and check, unless someone else has the info to hand.

Live In LA also needs to be sped up around 5% to run at the right speed.


Thanks. I'll check this out ... can't say it's a concert I've played a lot ... maybe this will help.

Re: From Hawaii to Las Vegas FTD mastered 5% too slow.

Fri Dec 07, 2012 12:47 pm

fg76 wrote:You're missing the point. If we were talking about cars, you'd have a point. We're talking about music, and sometimes we need to be thankful God allows us to get up in the morning and breathe at all. We should be worshiping Him, and not worshiping Elvis Presley anyways. (I'm preaching to myself too, because I'm still a fan.)


In a thread full of annoying posts, you just won the prize. Bloody christians!

Anyway, FTDs retail at £20 each in the UK. If they've mastered it wrong, it's not good enough. Yes, we are lucky to have the label, no-one is denying that. But as consumers we have the right to express an opinion on the quality of something we've paid for. This "don't criticise it because it's FTD" way of thinking puzzles me.

Compared with other collectors' releases FTD is way pricey. Okay, it's a free market, they can charge what they like and I can decide whether I think it's worth it. That's how it works. But if I do decide to buy their product, and find it's flawed, with no offer of a replacement, why should I be told by another consumer "keep your trap shut, you don't understand!", which is the message I've seen given out on this thread.