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Re: From Hawaii to Las Vegas FTD mastered 5% too slow.

Mon Dec 03, 2012 10:12 am

elvissessions wrote:So, what's the percentage speed-correction estimate on Live in LA?


Seriously, I would like to know.

Re: From Hawaii to Las Vegas FTD mastered 5% too slow.

Mon Dec 03, 2012 10:53 am

Matthew wrote:
promiseland wrote:"5% too slow" is not a major issue

It is quite a problem actually - the music is playing a key lower than it should, that's not just slightly slower, that's a lot slower. That it can be self corrected by the purchaser is neither here nor there, the original album is defective. We buy the FTD albums to play, not to have to upload to computer, mess around with in audio software and then burn our own replacement CDs in order to hear the audio correctly (and not everyone knows how to do this).

I appreciate your point about edits and the like, but those are creative choices. The tape speed issue here is a mastering error. Different discussions.

Agreed.

Re: From Hawaii to Las Vegas FTD mastered 5% too slow.

Mon Dec 03, 2012 11:16 am

elvissessions wrote:
elvissessions wrote:So, what's the percentage speed-correction estimate on Live in LA?


Seriously, I would like to know.

It's been a while. I will need to dig it out and check, unless someone else has the info to hand.

Re: From Hawaii to Las Vegas FTD mastered 5% too slow.

Mon Dec 03, 2012 11:36 am

Matthew wrote:Too Much Monkey Business (2000) - mastering error on Loving Arms
Easter Special (2001) - mastering errors resulting in digital clicking and noise throughout.
New Year's Eve (2003) - mastering errors resulting in digital noise.
So High (2003) - production fault on So High (take 1). FTD replaced the disc.
Elvis Today (2005) - mastering error resulting in significant volume mismatch between master takes and outtakes.
Unchained Melody (2007) - mastering error on Where No One Stands Alone.
Live In LA (2007) - mastering error, tape has not been speed corrected and thus runs too slow.
Elvis (Fool) (2010) - production error on disc 2 resulting in repeated take of Fool. FTD replaced the disc.
Live In LA (Again! - 2011) - straight CD re-issue of the book's CD. Previous mastering error not fixed.
Stage Rehearsal (2011) - mastering glitch on Patch It Up guitar solo.
Fashion For A King (2011) - legendary for its terrible grammatical problems and ironically FTD's best selling book.
Our Memories Of Elvis (2012) - mastering error on Are You Sincere.
Welcome Home Elvis (2012) - many grammatical problems.
From Hawaii To Vegas (2012) - mastering error, tape has not been speed corrected and thus runs too slow.
From Memphis To Hollywood (2012) - grammatical problems, though less that its predecessor.
Hits Of The 70s (2012) - incorrect version of My Way in place of the correct 1977 single.

And this list ignores such releases as Southern Nights (2006), featuring terribly sloppy editing work between songs, and does not delve into the arena of questionable creative decisions on some recent titles. What this list does reveal is that there is an upsurge in problems in the last couple of years, and that furthermore FTD have gotten quieter and quieter in addressing customer complaints, adopting a sort of "lalalalalalala, can't hear you" approach. But here's anticipating a "rational" rebuttal that these releases either do not have any problems, that the problems are "trivial", or that FTD have released so many wonderful titles without problems that those with production issues can be all but ignored and forgiven. Maybe "we'll" be surprised.

I tend to sit in the camp that fans who highlight issues have a voice that helps facilitate change - such as the significant shift in audio mastering aesthetics beginning with Kevan Budd in 2004, brought on in part because the hardcore fan base had been calling out for improved audio-work for sometime.

When In Rome wrote:Here's a few more errors fans...
The stereo master of 'Angel' on the 'FTD' FTD sounds a little wobbly compared to the TCM version.
The cover of the 'Wild In The Country' FTD stated Presely on the spine (they did replace that one)
'Tuscon '76' anyone... replaced quietly on the sly
The original 'Girl Happy' had the wrong take of 'You'll Be Gone' plus an all new tinny reverb on the masters. Had to buy the repress for that one!!
I know it's a fan/collectors label but as mentioned they aren't cheap, they never get reduced into a bargain bin and more importantly they do have a pretty big mother label, it would only take a test press to be looked and listened to with some keen eyes and ears!! I can't seem to remember many of the mass market Elvis releases having as many, if any, errors...

"I Found My Thrill" (2006) is also running a tad slow to these ears.
Last edited by JimmyCool on Mon Dec 03, 2012 11:39 am, edited 1 time in total.

Re: From Hawaii to Las Vegas FTD mastered 5% too slow.

Mon Dec 03, 2012 11:39 am

FTD's are not 'cheap' releases....and i agree many people do mastering errors...guess what Bootleggers too!~ :roll: Therefore i think its perfectly acceptable to expect a better 'standard'
can't Ernst get a better 'girlfriend' than Lene Reidel..... surely that's the root cause of the 'problem?'[ :roll: :wink: :wink: :?

Re: From Hawaii to Las Vegas FTD mastered 5% too slow.

Mon Dec 03, 2012 12:19 pm

YDKM wrote:can't Ernst get a better 'girlfriend' than Lene Reidel..... surely that's the root cause of the 'problem?'[ :roll: :wink: :wink: :?

These sorts of comments cheapen the discussion.

Re: From Hawaii to Las Vegas FTD mastered 5% too slow.

Mon Dec 03, 2012 1:08 pm

But nonetheless they are true. Lene Reidel made a lot of mastering errors in the past and her work always pales compared to the archivements of others. :(

Re: From Hawaii to Las Vegas FTD mastered 5% too slow.

Mon Dec 03, 2012 1:12 pm

Matthew wrote:
Tony.. wrote:According to a contributor in the latest "Elvis the man & his music" magazine, the recent FTD rehearsal release runs 5% too slow. He blames Lene Reidel for this latest cock up. Anyone know what went wrong this time? :o

This was discussed at length on this forum when it was released. It does run too slow, likely at the tape transfer stage and no-one bothered to check it and correct it. I blame the producers for this - it's their responsibility to make sure things are just so and it's not rocket science to realise old cassette tapes made on old machines may not playback at the same pitch on new tape decks and may need some pitch tweaking. D'oh!

Funnily enough through the long discussion about the speed issue on this forum, many (most) acknowledged it but really didn't seem to care. Basically all songs play about a key lower than they should. A song in D, plays in C#. It is partly why Elvis sounds a little tired and "chilled out" - because the tape is not playing at the correct speed. I wrote this in July:

Matthew wrote:
RonBaker2003 wrote:Perhaps the speed of the cassette deck is to blame?

It is probably a disconnect between the speed of the tape recorder and the speed of the playback deck used for the transfer to digital. Either way it is a very simply fix, one that hasn't been done. If I sound frustrated it is because - 1) I want to get this CD and 2) in order to enjoy it I will have to rip it to the computer, fix the tempo myself, and burn a CD-R and listen to that. For $50 (NZD) per title that is unacceptable to me. Why go to the trouble of acquiring a rare tape, designing pretty decent artwork, going through the hoops to get it released, only to screw up the most important aspect of the release for the consumers - the audio. And don't expect FTD to rectify this mistake - they didn't when re-issuing Live In LA and they seem all but unresponsive about recent mastering errors. I love FTD but damn...

What I find baffling is so many being perfectly okay with the audio playing significantly slower than it should be. Each to their own I guess.

http://elvis-collectors.com/forum/viewt ... 1#p1061581



so the 5 % slower speed affects the pitch? reason im askin is in Audacity theres a effect for changing speed (which affects pitch also) and also a change tempo which does not. So im wondering which of these two i should use to convert the whole cd to be able to hear it correctly

Re: From Hawaii to Las Vegas FTD mastered 5% too slow.

Mon Dec 03, 2012 1:20 pm

A. C. van Kuijk wrote:But nonetheless they are true. Lene Reidel made a lot of mastering errors in the past and her work always pales compared to the archivements of others. :(


absolutely... i don't mean to ever 'cheapen the discussion' just say the TRUTH and hope FTD aim for better 'standards' and some kind of 'quality check/control'/ :?

Re: From Hawaii to Las Vegas FTD mastered 5% too slow.

Mon Dec 03, 2012 1:22 pm

A. C. van Kuijk wrote:But nonetheless they are true.

Really? She is Ernst's girlfriend? C'mon! Such comments lessen the discussion.

Re: From Hawaii to Las Vegas FTD mastered 5% too slow.

Mon Dec 03, 2012 1:26 pm

voldto wrote:so the 5 % slower speed affects the pitch? reason im askin is in Audacity theres a effect for changing speed (which affects pitch also) and also a change tempo which does not. So im wondering which of these two i should use to convert the whole cd to be able to hear it correctly

With Audacity you would use the Change Speed setting.

Re: From Hawaii to Las Vegas FTD mastered 5% too slow.

Mon Dec 03, 2012 1:50 pm

Rob wrote:
poormadpeter wrote:Are you happy about buying a CD mastered at the wrong speed, Rob?

I never really gave it much thought, Pete.

I get these recordings because I get enjoyment out of Elvis Presley. If I happen to obtain an audience recording that is of bad quality, or a soundboard show that is the same, or even a rehearsal that is the wrong speed, I'm not particularly fond of it, no. However, I also know that much of this material was never meant to be heard by a hardcore Elvis fan / CD collector like me anyway. That alone makes me glad to hear it anyway that I can. As a fan at the level that I am, I would much rather hear this mastered a little too slow than to never hear it at all. I do not dissect these releases like so many others here do. I appreciate having had the chance to hear them. I am fortunate enough that I don't have to come close to picking and choosing various CD releases, so maybe that's where I don't agree when others complain. However, I am as much of a fan here as anyone and I remember 30+ years ago when I would have pushed an old lady in a wheelchair in front of a freight train to get this same material that is so easily accessible now. I enjoy what I can get and never take it for granted. Many here do not know what it was like in those days and are spoiled because FTD soundboards and great sounding boot CDs are all they've ever known. I'm from the old school and never take any of this material for granted. It makes me shake my head to hear all of this moaning about 5% too slow, this mix sucks, etc. Man, just enjoy the releases because someday it will all be over.

I really pity some on here who cannot just sit back and enjoy the recordings the way I do. They are really missing out on some great material. Damn the 5% too slow BS. You were never meant to hear it anyway.

Excellent reply ,Rob

Re: From Hawaii to Las Vegas FTD mastered 5% too slow.

Mon Dec 03, 2012 3:09 pm

Hey Ernst, It's time to give Lene the flick and instead appoint Mathew, elvisalisellers and Jimmy Cool for future soundboard restorations.

Re: From Hawaii to Las Vegas FTD mastered 5% too slow.

Mon Dec 03, 2012 3:37 pm

And please fire Michael Brauer ASAP.

Re: From Hawaii to Las Vegas FTD mastered 5% too slow.

Mon Dec 03, 2012 4:16 pm

voldto wrote:
Matthew wrote:
Tony.. wrote:According to a contributor in the latest "Elvis the man & his music" magazine, the recent FTD rehearsal release runs 5% too slow. He blames Lene Reidel for this latest cock up. Anyone know what went wrong this time? :o

This was discussed at length on this forum when it was released. It does run too slow, likely at the tape transfer stage and no-one bothered to check it and correct it. I blame the producers for this - it's their responsibility to make sure things are just so and it's not rocket science to realise old cassette tapes made on old machines may not playback at the same pitch on new tape decks and may need some pitch tweaking. D'oh!

Funnily enough through the long discussion about the speed issue on this forum, many (most) acknowledged it but really didn't seem to care. Basically all songs play about a key lower than they should. A song in D, plays in C#. It is partly why Elvis sounds a little tired and "chilled out" - because the tape is not playing at the correct speed. I wrote this in July:

Matthew wrote:
RonBaker2003 wrote:Perhaps the speed of the cassette deck is to blame?

It is probably a disconnect between the speed of the tape recorder and the speed of the playback deck used for the transfer to digital. Either way it is a very simply fix, one that hasn't been done. If I sound frustrated it is because - 1) I want to get this CD and 2) in order to enjoy it I will have to rip it to the computer, fix the tempo myself, and burn a CD-R and listen to that. For $50 (NZD) per title that is unacceptable to me. Why go to the trouble of acquiring a rare tape, designing pretty decent artwork, going through the hoops to get it released, only to screw up the most important aspect of the release for the consumers - the audio. And don't expect FTD to rectify this mistake - they didn't when re-issuing Live In LA and they seem all but unresponsive about recent mastering errors. I love FTD but damn...

What I find baffling is so many being perfectly okay with the audio playing significantly slower than it should be. Each to their own I guess.

http://elvis-collectors.com/forum/viewt ... 1#p1061581



so the 5 % slower speed affects the pitch?


Yes, for example play a 33rpm record at 45rpm and everyone sounds like chipmunks.

Re: From Hawaii to Las Vegas FTD mastered 5% too slow.

Mon Dec 03, 2012 5:19 pm

I just played the cd again. It doesn't sound so bad to me. I haven't tried using Audacity to make it 5% faster than it is, but it sounds pretty close to the arrangement of the Aloha version of "Something".

Re: From Hawaii to Las Vegas FTD mastered 5% too slow.

Mon Dec 03, 2012 5:20 pm

Matthew wrote:
A. C. van Kuijk wrote:But nonetheless they are true.

Really? She is Ernst's girlfriend? C'mon! Such comments lessen the discussion.

So Lene Reidel is just an average employee? Why does she still keep her job after so many mishaps?

Re: From Hawaii to Las Vegas FTD mastered 5% too slow.

Mon Dec 03, 2012 5:38 pm

promiseland wrote:And please fire Michael Brauer ASAP.

Sigh... :roll:

Re: From Hawaii to Las Vegas FTD mastered 5% too slow.

Mon Dec 03, 2012 6:01 pm

promiseland wrote:And please fire Michael Brauer ASAP.

Is it too late to fire Colonel Parker?

Re: From Hawaii to Las Vegas FTD mastered 5% too slow.

Mon Dec 03, 2012 6:49 pm

Matthew wrote:
voldto wrote:so the 5 % slower speed affects the pitch? reason im askin is in Audacity theres a effect for changing speed (which affects pitch also) and also a change tempo which does not. So im wondering which of these two i should use to convert the whole cd to be able to hear it correctly

With Audacity you would use the Change Speed setting.

Yes. The speed setting. You would need to increase the speed by 5.9463094% to go up one semi-tone. Of course, I don't know if it is exactly one semi-tone too low; I am assuming that that 5% figure (which isn't exactly one semi-tone) is approximate.

RonBaker2003 wrote:I just played the cd again. It doesn't sound so bad to me. I haven't tried using Audacity to make it 5% faster than it is, but it sounds pretty close to the arrangement of the Aloha version of "Something".

And if something is 5% too slow, increasing it by 5% will not make it the correct speed; it will still be too slow. Increasing by 5.2631579% would do the trick. These, of course, are minuscule amounts, but good to know in case the need to correct is ever more than 5%. If the tape were playing 50% too slow, for example, increasing it by 50% would make it 25% too slow.

Brian

Re: From Hawaii to Las Vegas FTD mastered 5% too slow.

Mon Dec 03, 2012 10:09 pm

poormadpeter wrote:Clearly the Doc missed my earlier question..

I'd like to ask the Doc a question.

If you went on to Amazon and bought an official EMI CD of outtakes from the Beatles Abbey Road sessions, and found out that it was mastered 5% too slow, would you be happy with the release?

A yes or no answer will suffice


I'm still waiting for the reply. It's very odd how a certain person vanishes from a thread when pushed into a corner!

Re: From Hawaii to Las Vegas FTD mastered 5% too slow.

Mon Dec 03, 2012 10:36 pm

poormadpeter wrote:I'd like to ask the Doc a question.

If you went on to Amazon and bought an official EMI CD of outtakes from the Beatles Abbey Road sessions, and found out that it was mastered 5% too slow, would you be happy with the release?

If Ernst Jorgensen had something to do with that, then Doc would be tickled pink with it.

Sorry, Peter, I couldn't resist.

Re: From Hawaii to Las Vegas FTD mastered 5% too slow.

Mon Dec 03, 2012 11:08 pm

Blue River wrote:
poormadpeter wrote:I'd like to ask the Doc a question.

If you went on to Amazon and bought an official EMI CD of outtakes from the Beatles Abbey Road sessions, and found out that it was mastered 5% too slow, would you be happy with the release?

If Ernst Jorgensen had something to do with that, then Doc would be tickled pink with it.

The analogy was ignored because it is inaccurate. Pay attention.

The example is a RETAIL product on the main label, designed to sell a great number of units to a GENERAL audience. The Follow That Dream label is a FAN-BASED product -- not sold at retail -- designed to sell in a very small print run to a SELECT audience.

The former will be closely watched by upper management for both content and sales, the latter is almost never a concern of the corporate suits.

The EMI disc is the brainchild of several interests, FTD begins and ends with one guy.

Some of you people have a great deal of trouble comprehending these differences, what they mean, and how lucky we fans are that someone thought Follow That Dream could work. For some of you, it's like the last 13 years never happened. I find this mindset selfish, and more than a little spiteful.

Ah, the "Elvis World."

Re: From Hawaii to Las Vegas FTD mastered 5% too slow.

Tue Dec 04, 2012 1:10 am

YDKM wrote:FTD's are not 'cheap' releases....and i agree many people do mastering errors...guess what Bootleggers too!~ :roll: Therefore i think its perfectly acceptable to expect a better 'standard'
can't Ernst get a better 'girlfriend' than Lene Reidel..... surely that's the root cause of the 'problem?'[ :roll: :wink: :wink: :?


Interesting. Where did you get that information from ?

Re: From Hawaii to Las Vegas FTD mastered 5% too slow.

Tue Dec 04, 2012 1:15 am

drjohncarpenter wrote:
Blue River wrote:
poormadpeter wrote:I'd like to ask the Doc a question.

If you went on to Amazon and bought an official EMI CD of outtakes from the Beatles Abbey Road sessions, and found out that it was mastered 5% too slow, would you be happy with the release?

If Ernst Jorgensen had something to do with that, then Doc would be tickled pink with it.

The analogy was ignored because it is inaccurate. Pay attention.

The example is a RETAIL product on the main label, designed to sell a great number of units to a GENERAL audience. The Follow That Dream label is a FAN-BASED product -- not sold at retail -- designed to sell in a very small print run to a SELECT audience.

The former will be closely watched by upper management for both content and sales, the latter is almost never a concern of the corporate suits.

The EMI disc is the brainchild of several interests, FTD begins and ends with one guy.

Some of you people have a great deal of trouble comprehending these differences, what they mean, and how lucky we fans are that someone thought Follow That Dream could work. For some of you, it's like the last 13 years never happened. I find this mindset selfish, and more than a little spiteful.

Ah, the "Elvis World."


Which part of "would you be happy? yes or no?" did you not understand?