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Re: Prince From Another Planet - Brilliant!

Fri Nov 30, 2012 11:47 am

Tim C wrote:I agree with only one thing about his review and that behind Elvis there was a great wall of sound. He got that absolutely correct, it's a flat wall of sound, with instrumentation and vocal elements virtually indistinguishable from one another. It reminds me of the wall of sound from a pink or white noise generator for calibrating an EQ. It becomes noise, not a band behind him.

One has to wonder if the reviewer has actually attended a concert as I have never attended a concert where everything behind the singer was flat and lifeless, where it sounded like pillows over the ears. So this is a failure that is so far off the mark that it didn't hit the broad side of the barn. Based on every concert I've been to in my life 30+ and counting, none of them sound as muddy, lifeless, and crammed together as this.

The reviewer I guess got one more thing right...I guess...this isn't an audiophile release by any stretch of the imagination, but after 40 years of waiting for a remix/master of the evening performance, that is exactly what it should have been, no excuses, period, full stop, end of discussion.

Save your experiments for a later date and maybe before releasing such a release, get a few fans opinions first. Preferably get opinions from independent fans who don't lick the boots of Sony employers or have any vested interest in the company. Better yet, if you can't do it right, get fans in there who can and will. Personally, I don't think that would ever happen because some of the fans would put the "professionals" to shame and give the fans what they have been waiting for. God forbid they do that.


You must be joking right?

Re: Prince From Another Planet - Brilliant!

Fri Nov 30, 2012 11:48 am

Oh, and they sounded great on my (admittedly rather cheap) Phillips stereo and in the car, too.

I haven't used headphones yet, so it will be interesting to listen that way as well.

Re: Prince From Another Planet - Brilliant!

Fri Nov 30, 2012 12:18 pm

Alexander wrote:
Tim C wrote:I agree with only one thing about his review and that behind Elvis there was a great wall of sound. He got that absolutely correct, it's a flat wall of sound, with instrumentation and vocal elements virtually indistinguishable from one another. It reminds me of the wall of sound from a pink or white noise generator for calibrating an EQ. It becomes noise, not a band behind him.

One has to wonder if the reviewer has actually attended a concert as I have never attended a concert where everything behind the singer was flat and lifeless, where it sounded like pillows over the ears. So this is a failure that is so far off the mark that it didn't hit the broad side of the barn. Based on every concert I've been to in my life 30+ and counting, none of them sound as muddy, lifeless, and crammed together as this.

The reviewer I guess got one more thing right...I guess...this isn't an audiophile release by any stretch of the imagination, but after 40 years of waiting for a remix/master of the evening performance, that is exactly what it should have been, no excuses, period, full stop, end of discussion.

Save your experiments for a later date and maybe before releasing such a release, get a few fans opinions first. Preferably get opinions from independent fans who don't lick the boots of Sony employers or have any vested interest in the company. Better yet, if you can't do it right, get fans in there who can and will. Personally, I don't think that would ever happen because some of the fans would put the "professionals" to shame and give the fans what they have been waiting for. God forbid they do that.


You must be joking right?

He makes some fair points.

Re: Prince From Another Planet - Brilliant!

Fri Nov 30, 2012 12:43 pm

Matthew wrote:
Alexander wrote:
Tim C wrote:I agree with only one thing about his review and that behind Elvis there was a great wall of sound. He got that absolutely correct, it's a flat wall of sound, with instrumentation and vocal elements virtually indistinguishable from one another. It reminds me of the wall of sound from a pink or white noise generator for calibrating an EQ. It becomes noise, not a band behind him.

One has to wonder if the reviewer has actually attended a concert as I have never attended a concert where everything behind the singer was flat and lifeless, where it sounded like pillows over the ears. So this is a failure that is so far off the mark that it didn't hit the broad side of the barn. Based on every concert I've been to in my life 30+ and counting, none of them sound as muddy, lifeless, and crammed together as this.

The reviewer I guess got one more thing right...I guess...this isn't an audiophile release by any stretch of the imagination, but after 40 years of waiting for a remix/master of the evening performance, that is exactly what it should have been, no excuses, period, full stop, end of discussion.

Save your experiments for a later date and maybe before releasing such a release, get a few fans opinions first. Preferably get opinions from independent fans who don't lick the boots of Sony employers or have any vested interest in the company. Better yet, if you can't do it right, get fans in there who can and will. Personally, I don't think that would ever happen because some of the fans would put the "professionals" to shame and give the fans what they have been waiting for. God forbid they do that.


You must be joking right?

He makes some fair points.


I do not care for an audiophile release or whatever that may be. We needed a release that finally did the concert justice and that's what PFAP did. The new mix is a revelation compared to the flat, lifeless mix of the original record. Even on TCM I regularly skip MSG tracks because of the mediocre mix. What we got now is a mix that does the live atmosphere justice more than and which also is acceptable by todays mainstream standards. I call that a mayor achievement.

Re: Prince From Another Planet - Brilliant!

Fri Nov 30, 2012 12:46 pm

I think most points have been covered, just a couple of stand-outs for me to add.

1. The sound from the DVD
Particularly Elvis’ vocal, it’s really excellent and I don’t think anyone performing live 40 years ago was in the same league as Elvis Presley when it mattered to him and when he tried. In addition I don’t think I’ve heard James Burton so good, playing perfectly underneath Elvis throughout.

2. The Press Conference
Like others, I wish they had gone to more effort in constructing (as much as they could) the full press conference, a wasted opportunity to have this officially available. Still, Elvis comes across as thoughtful, intelligent and deep – I wish he’d gone on to elaborate on the “Image & the human being” question it would have been enthralling to hear what he had to say in more detail. He’s asked the question on writing a biography, he states he doesn’t think it’s the right time. I doubt he’d ever have the patience but that would have been a great read. When Vernon is asked to speak, Elvis’ motions are priceless. Fixing his jacket, sitting still and listening attentively I found his body language in that tiny segment totally fascinating.

Re: Prince From Another Planet - Brilliant!

Fri Nov 30, 2012 3:46 pm

Mike S wrote:[It is simply that Matthew's observations (along with others) will inevitably ring louder for anyone possessing a high grade hi-fi system, simply because the limitations of these remixed shows will be more apparent. [b]As everyone (including yourself) seems to agree - [/b]
this is not an audiophile product - pure and simple.

The burning question is: Why bother to remix these shows in the first place unless you are going to create an audiophile product? After all, done right, it could and should please everyone.


Mike, I do agree with much that has been said from a technical point of view e.g. heavy use of compression, narrow spread of instruments as examples. I would have preferred a more dynamic mix with better spread of instruments, more clarity as well. But where I differ is that despite all of the limitations mentioned I still find myself thoroughly enjoying the release - I can't actually explain how that is when I can hear the limitations outlined but there it is. At the end of the day I guess it just comes down to "do you enjoy it or don't you?" Whatever the audiophile perspective may be. And I do enjoy it. I've listened on several good systems and in the car and find the experience similar although there are differences. I have enjoyed all of them though. I find it exciting and as I've said previously his vocals come across brilliantly. It will be interesting to see how I feel about in a couple of months say but at the moment I have already had far more than £14 worth of great entertainment.


cheers Jamie

Re: Prince From Another Planet - Brilliant!

Fri Nov 30, 2012 3:55 pm

I think fans should just be glad they can have this footage and the 2 Cd's Remixed from the multi-track tapes.. For me those shows sound alot better then more then 15 years ago.. Be glad they hired a high class mixer, released something to the public!, Gave us new footages.. theres always something.. would be the same as Oh WOW opening night 1969 getting released, but oh boo its the same old setlist! stop whining and just accept it.

Re: Prince From Another Planet - Brilliant!

Fri Nov 30, 2012 4:01 pm

No, the only joke is this release. The only revelation about this release is Elvis awesome voice, other than that, the mix absolutely sucks.

As I said, once the hype dissipates in about a years time the people who are hyped up about this release will be better able to make a judgement about this release and there will be a lot of people will realize that what I and a few others on here are saying is true. Other than Elvis voice being up front in the mix, the mixing/mastering job on this release is found wanting in the worst way. Some people will realize that any soundstage that is present is because they are playing it thru home speakers that are far enough apart for there to be one because of speaker placement and room acoustics alone.

Everything behind Elvis and Tutt's drums are wadded up in a ball just for the sake of completion, of being able to say, yup it is the evening MSG show. Being in the 4th row my ass, this show sounds like the band is behind the Hilton stage curtain. I've never been to a concert where the band is behind a curtain, have you? The entire band with the exception of the drums sounds as if it were all at one level, as if all the tracks with the exception of the drums and Elvis were compressed and limited to the point of lifelessness. I've never been to a concert where all instruments and vocals were at the same level and all peaks in sound were limited. Different instruments were always coming thru at different levels, some voices were louder than others, snares and high hats almost always rang thru clearly, horns blasting thru, flutes coming thru with delicacy and finesse, backing singers singing as if a full choir with the band while the strings played in the background, building layer upon layer in sound in a sort of great climax...only you get the feeling they are being restrained, tied down, held back by some muffled, muddy mix.

This release should have been a hallelujah YES!!! Finally!!! This is what I have been waiting for all this time...is now an oh sh*t what happened moment. It was real easy, all they had to do was not get drastic with the mix, create something that would stand the test of time, an audiophile type release, something that set the standard, the "go to" release. No I don't believe that the TCM release is the "go to" release for this concert. Kudos to them for taking a risk, but take your risks after the "go to" remix/master is released.

This release was easy, all they had to do was slide safely into home plate and accept the accolades of the fans, but in the end, they tripped on their own shoelaces between home and third. This mix will be relegated to the same bad mix list as the Alternate Aloha and reprocessed stereo releases.

Let's be honest about this release also, in no way does this release sound as if you are in the fourth row, maybe it makes you "feel" as if you are because of the attack and emphasis on the drums hitting you harder than any previous Elvis cd, oh, and Elvis prominent vocals, but the entire band except Tutt are compressed and limited into a toxic soup and compact disc is too limited a format to give you the sensation that you are believably in the fourth row at an actual Elvis concert. Where is the stereo image that you get from the band? It's damned near a mono mix because of the heavy handed tinkering, that is unless you are using room acoustics, speaker placement, reverb, eq, and God knows what else to achieve a resemblance to a stereo soundstage.

Re: Prince From Another Planet - Brilliant!

Fri Nov 30, 2012 4:51 pm

Well, I am very happy with my set. When I first heard it last week, I sat down with my headphones on and was impressed from start to finish. I only listened to the evening show the first time. However, the next night I listened to both shows back-to-back. As I mentioned before, this set will be the go-to version for me from now on. I was very impressed with the sound I am getting and do not care if another mix of these shows are ever available. To this fan, the improvement is like night and day.

For those who are disappointed, sorry to hear that, because this fan is well satisfied.

Re: Prince From Another Planet - Brilliant!

Fri Nov 30, 2012 5:06 pm

With all due respect Tim C!
It seems you've been so let down by this set you can't get over it. But, it doesn't come over any more crystal even though repeated! Stay with the legacy release and be happy with that, if that comes over as "the holy grail" in regard with the MSG recordings.

It is so strange within this site where you find people raving over flat, dull unbalanced sounboard recordings, aginst some totally bashing the Prince set. And the overall impression, so far, that most signatures in here actually love the set.

But, it is to each his own. I guess it won't help that I repeat that I play the Prince set over and over! Have a happy! (hopefully) :)

Re: Prince From Another Planet - Brilliant!

Fri Nov 30, 2012 6:02 pm

Rob wrote:Well, I am very happy with my set. When I first heard it last week, I sat down with my headphones on and was impressed from start to finish. I only listened to the evening show the first time. However, the next night I listened to both shows back-to-back. As I mentioned before, this set will be the go-to version for me from now on. I was very impressed with the sound I am getting and do not care if another mix of these shows are ever available. To this fan, the improvement is like night and day.
For those who are disappointed, sorry to hear that, because this fan is well satisfied.

Absolutely... the new mix/mastering and overall sound of the evening show is fantastic on PFAP... the sound on the afternoon show is fine but not as significant of an improvement as heard on the evening show. I've played this about 15 times through now and I NEVER used to play the 1972 release. Given the original source tapes are now 40 years old and taken during a live performance, this new recording is stellar! Whether it's played through my home stereo Castle speakers, in my car or listening to it through my Bose headphones, it's all good here!!! :smt023

Re: Prince From Another Planet - Brilliant!

Fri Nov 30, 2012 6:06 pm

Tim C wrote:One has to wonder if the reviewer has actually attended a concert as I have never attended a concert where everything behind the singer was flat and lifeless, where it sounded like pillows over the ears. So this is a failure that is so far off the mark that it didn't hit the broad side of the barn. Based on every concert I've been to in my life 30+ and counting, none of them sound as muddy, lifeless, and crammed together as this.

.


Your suggestion that Arjan Deelen never heard a live concert is ludicrous. He’s been active in the music business since the early 90s, and he even was the manager for American rocker Robert Gordon for five years. They toured all over Europe, the US and even Russia. He also set up his own record label together with Gordon, inspired by FTD, and they did several very worthwile releases together. He also booked numerous shows with other artists in the blues and rockabilly genre, and for the last five years he has been the producer and tour-manager of the ‘Original Elvis Tribute’, which features a.o. Duke Bardwell, Ginger & Mary Holladay and Bobby Wood. IMO easily the best Elvis show out there

Re: Prince From Another Planet - Brilliant!

Fri Nov 30, 2012 8:11 pm

For those that didn't like the original mix of the evening show, I guess your expensive stereo's
let you down.

Re: Prince From Another Planet - Brilliant!

Fri Nov 30, 2012 11:31 pm

Tim C, I belive I have a fair hifi set, Harman Kardon 990 amp and the CD player to go along with the amp. my speakers are a Swedish brand XTZ that has been tested in many hifi magazines over the world always come out as higly recomended. So I hope you understand that audio is important to me.

I first heard MSG on vinyl in the sevethies, loved the show but there was something wrong soundwise
for example comparing to the On Stage album that I concidered the best audio for a live album back then.

When MSG was released on CD for the first time I had very high hopes that the sound should be improved but it wasn't.
Today I recived my copy and have give both shows a spin and this is a MAJOR upgrade we could all wish for something else, but none of us has the master tapes and can judge how good or bad the tapes are,and what could be done with the audio. When listening to this release I think the afternoon show
is a little bit better sounding. For me that indicates that the afternoon show has a better original source.

I do have the CM box but haven't opened it yet so I haven't heard the Vic's version but it should be close to the original vinyl release I have learned. Someday soon I will give that version a spin, just waiting for
some good artwork to show up so I can rip it to my HD as I putting my entire record collection on HD
and listening to my records via computer/DAC.

This might very well be the last upgrade we ever will have of this, maybe the best show Elvis ever performed, to put it down soundwise considering to what has been out is beyond me.
The only thing that is a Little disturbing is the way the discs are stored, it might damage them, but that is all.
At last, not all member on this board has the money to get a HiFi gear that you might have or the knowledge how to set up a pair of speakers, but it sounds that you dissrepect those people on this board.

Be thankful for this release and enjoy what you now got, it is probably as good as it gets.

Re: Prince From Another Planet - Brilliant!

Sat Dec 01, 2012 12:48 am

blue boy wrote:I do have the CM box but haven't opened it yet so I haven't heard the Vic's version but it should be close to the original vinyl release I have learned.

I suggest you crack it open, then "play it loud."

Re: Prince From Another Planet - Brilliant!

Sat Dec 01, 2012 1:03 am

I will very soon. when christmas comes around I will get time to rip it, but I need some good coverarts
front and back to get the job done properly. Sometimes I'm thinking to arenge them into the original album releases, they way I listened to them in earlier days.

Re: Prince From Another Planet - Brilliant!

Sat Dec 01, 2012 1:09 am

blue boy wrote:I will very soon. when christmas comes around I will get time to rip it, but I need some good coverarts
front and back to get the job done properly. Sometimes I'm thinking to arenge them into the original album releases, they way I listened to them in earlier days.

I'm not sure I'm following - why do you need cover-art to take disc 23 out of the Complete Masters set and play it on your stereo?

Re: Prince From Another Planet - Brilliant!

Sat Dec 01, 2012 1:35 am

Of course I can play them on my stereo. But I rather rip them and play them from my HD connected to my stereo. I use J River media as my mediaplayer and to just to rip all discs with no covers would be a nightmare when searching for different tracks etc.
The reason that I have keep it unopened is that I work a lot, and are in the process ripping my CD's.
right now I'm up to ca 975 out of ca 2 500. Every track is catalouged and every cover/back scanned by
myself. Everything is ripped i wav. format it takes a lot of time but is great fun.

Re: Prince From Another Planet - Brilliant!

Sat Dec 01, 2012 3:13 am

I don't begrudge anyone for liking this set, but as I previously stated, everyone was gaga and googly eyed over the remix/master of the Alternate Aloha at one point also, when the hype dies down and people get over the excitement of this release more reasonable reviews will be made and it will be seen for the failure it is.

I happen to disagree with the reviewer and I've been to my fair share of concerts in my life, and none of them came close to sounding this bad and I've been in the 4th row before at the Elvis concert about 10 years ago in Cleveland. This release makes me feel as if I'm there, but the band is dare I say, almost feels like nothing more than bleed thru. The band has the quality and air of the first cd on the A Profile vol. 1 booth recording.

Again, if you like it, that's your choice and everyone has that right and it should be respected, I just happen to believe they could have delivered so much more after 40 years of waiting.

I sold my $10,000+ stereo system and my $3500 worth of bootleg cd's back in the late 90's early 2000's as it was a toy and I had children to raise. If I need a high end stereo system to compare it on, I go to my friends house. I've listened to it on several different systems including my friends and so far none of them have made a difference in my opinion. The book is nice, the dvd is nice, but the cd's are lacking.

There are others who think I have valid points and some who agree with me, so I'm not alone in what I observe. After all, it is a personal preference and we are all different and thank goodness we are as this place would be boring were we of all the same mindset.

Re: Prince From Another Planet - Brilliant!

Sat Dec 01, 2012 5:46 am

My Lord! Both my husband and I are both happy with the sound on this release! Much better than the 1992 cd version which sounds like it was taken right from vinyl. So many nit picks! My only complaint (and it has nothing to do with the audio) is the way the discs are stored, the press conference is choppy (i've seen more complete versions in my lifetime) and that's it! Oh, I wish there was more footage, but that this was released AT ALL, all of us should be happy and thankful that this was finally worked on and put out! Audio nerds always make me groan acting like they are experts in sound!! I'm old enough to remember how 8-tracks sounded..now that was something to complain about!! Get off your high horses and just ENJOY!!!!! :D

Re: Prince From Another Planet - Brilliant!

Sat Dec 01, 2012 7:36 am

sgoodyear62 wrote:My Lord! Both my husband and I are both happy with the sound on this release! Much better than the 1992 cd version which sounds like it was taken right from vinyl.

Vic Anesini's remaster sounds much, much better than the 1992 CD. Have you heard it? It changes the playing field completely.

Re: Prince From Another Planet - Brilliant!

Sat Dec 01, 2012 7:40 am

Tim C wrote:I don't begrudge anyone for liking this set, but as I previously stated, everyone was gaga and googly eyed over the remix/master of the Alternate Aloha at one point also, when the hype dies down and people get over the excitement of this release more reasonable reviews will be made and it will be seen for the failure it is.

I happen to disagree with the reviewer and I've been to my fair share of concerts in my life, and none of them came close to sounding this bad and I've been in the 4th row before at the Elvis concert about 10 years ago in Cleveland. This release makes me feel as if I'm there, but the band is dare I say, almost feels like nothing more than bleed thru. The band has the quality and air of the first cd on the A Profile vol. 1 booth recording.

Again, if you like it, that's your choice and everyone has that right and it should be respected, I just happen to believe they could have delivered so much more after 40 years of waiting.

I sold my $10,000+ stereo system and my $3500 worth of bootleg cd's back in the late 90's early 2000's as it was a toy and I had children to raise. If I need a high end stereo system to compare it on, I go to my friends house. I've listened to it on several different systems including my friends and so far none of them have made a difference in my opinion. The book is nice, the dvd is nice, but the cd's are lacking.

There are others who think I have valid points and some who agree with me, so I'm not alone in what I observe. After all, it is a personal preference and we are all different and thank goodness we are as this place would be boring were we of all the same mindset.



I think many overlook the general feel of the original concert and that
the album sold a ton in its day.
It was my second ever Elvis album, and it grew on me very quickly.
The feeling is lost in this type of sound.
It sounds like a CD, very sterile, very digital.

The biggest flaw is that you can't hear everything like before.
To make it sound "different", they had to sacrafice some of the intruments
so others could now take front seat.

This is why I am always sceptical of re-mxing.
It is so risky. You gamble you lose.

Re: Prince From Another Planet - Brilliant!

Sat Dec 01, 2012 7:46 am

Tim C wrote:After all, it is a personal preference and we are all different...

Agreed. There is no right or wrong here...

Re: Prince From Another Planet - Brilliant!

Sat Dec 01, 2012 11:27 am

I agree, this is a matter of taste but still, this release wins over the 1992 release. I never had the 8 track
Machines as they never was big in Europé, but I rememer the days of casette recorders....bad pressings
of vinyl copies with lots of pops and crackles.

I also agree that remixing and remastring is a gambling many times it comes out like a total different
record in some cases for the better but in many cases for the worst. In the case with MSG I will say
this is a winner comparing to what we got earlier as released legaly.

Re: Prince From Another Planet - Brilliant!

Sat Dec 01, 2012 12:24 pm

blue boy wrote:Of course I can play them on my stereo. But I rather rip them and play them from my HD connected to my stereo. I use J River media as my mediaplayer and to just to rip all discs with no covers would be a nightmare when searching for different tracks etc.
The reason that I have keep it unopened is that I work a lot, and are in the process ripping my CD's.
right now I'm up to ca 975 out of ca 2 500. Every track is catalouged and every cover/back scanned by
myself. Everything is ripped i wav. format it takes a lot of time but is great fun.


Blue, I use JRiver to and it's great. It took sometime to rip the CD's but its been worth it. Now every new one is a breeze. I still use my CD player as well but love the convenience of quickly scanning through my collection and selecting tracks without getting off the sofa.

Jamie