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Re: Prince From Another Planet - Brilliant!

Sat Nov 24, 2012 11:55 pm

Jamie wrote:I have listened primarily through Audiolab cd8200, Rotel pre/power, Quad 22l speakers main system and Cyrus 7q/and amp/focal speakers and AkG headphones. I don't hear any difference in presentation. As ever headphones can help focus on certain elements whilst losing any sense of soundstage and imaging. His vocals do sound great on the headphones but I don't think this has been designed for that purpose specifically. But no doubt it does reflect the current trend in use of compression. But there us no conspiracy here I a am convinced that the driver here for Brauer was to capture the event, the emotion, excitement etc. Most seem to think he achieved that. It might not be strictly audiophile but are people enjoying the concerts? Are they excited about the whole package? Has it got everyone praising certain songs? Has there been as many different posts all about Prince? I can't remember so much positive conversation about Elvis and his 72 performances in the time I have been on this site. There must be something right here whether we all like the approach or not.

Cheers Jamie

Dead right. I think the sound is very well balanced and I can't fault it - the proof is I keep playing it over, and over again. When you get used to the sound what is very apparent is Elvis' vocals sound fantastic...And as I say everything else seems well-balanced too.

The revelation is the footage - I never expected it to be THAT good. Just cannot get enough of the afternoon show and with the added visual element - wow!!!

Ernst and co and the Indiana Jones element again... :D

Re: Prince From Another Planet - Brilliant!

Sat Nov 24, 2012 11:58 pm

monkboughtlunch wrote:My review of PFAP:

1. The 2012 remixes are superior to the 1972 and 1997 originals. The 72 evening show mix had Elvis' vocals too low. the 97 Ferrante mix of the afternoon show was anemic
2. A little too much reverb and compression was used on the 2012 remixes to simulate a cavernous performance venue -- this approach reduces the dynamic range and "blurs' the sound
3. Very nice booklet (although a few careless errors -- the notes say "time was needed by the operator to change tape cartridges during the performance." It should be noted it was a Super 8 film cartridge -- not a "tape" cartridge.)
4. Discs are hard to extract -- and removal can damage/rip the packaging over time
5. Press conference footage is edited and truncated from only one source. Legacy should have obtained footage from other news crews to reassemble the entire news conference
6. The quality of Presley's singing indicates he took the MSG very seriously. I don't hear any audible evidence that he was impaired by substances. We find a very committed Presley on these MSG recordings. He's not quite as great as he was during 68-70, but he is really more committed here than some performances from 1971. For example, during Boston 71, Presley was throwing away a lot of the performances and seemed ambivalent.
7. Drums sound poorly recorded during the afternoon show compared to the evening show. Perhaps they changed how they mic'd the drums for the better recorded evening show.

Overall, a nice effort, but there's certainly room for improvement (primarily: less reverb, less compression, complete press conference, better proofing of liner notes and better packaging not prone to damaging the discs or cardboard.) I'd give it 4 out of 5 stars.


Nitpicking. But what about the 'stunning' footage?

Re: Prince From Another Planet - Brilliant!

Sun Nov 25, 2012 12:10 am

a mess of polk salad wrote:Nitpicking. But what about the 'stunning' footage?


Thanks for dismissing my review. Footage is great to see. Although a bit puffy and heavier than TTWII, the MSG fan footage finds Presley still quite capable of athletic stage movement. The oversized belts seem to be bothering him and restrict his movement -- he pauses at times during the MSG footage to reposition the large belt buckle in the middle of gyrations, thus impeding his momentum and throwing him off his game a bit. The jumpsuits and belts are becoming gaudier by this time period -- a powder blue jumpsuit with a cape is the epitome of "anti-cool."

Re: Prince From Another Planet - Brilliant!

Sun Nov 25, 2012 12:17 am

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Re: Prince From Another Planet - Brilliant!

Sun Nov 25, 2012 12:26 am

monkboughtlunch wrote:
a mess of polk salad wrote:Nitpicking. But what about the 'stunning' footage?


Thanks for dismissing my review. Footage is great to see. Although a bit puffy and heavier than TTWII, the MSG fan footage finds Presley still quite capable of athletic stage movement. The oversized belts seem to be bothering him and restrict his movement -- he pauses at times during the MSG footage to reposition the large belt buckle in the middle of gyrations, thus impeding his momentum and throwing him off his game a bit. The jumpsuits and belts are becoming gaudier by this time period -- a powder blue jumpsuit with a cape is the epitome of "anti-cool."

Interesting comments. I personally love the jumpsuits and cape but everyone likes different aspects of Elvis. The belt didn't seem to throw him off his game at all imho. There's so many positives about his performance...stunning footage and very glad we have it.

Re: Prince From Another Planet - Brilliant!

Sun Nov 25, 2012 12:32 am

Only with hindsight, I think at that point in time he was as cool as f%**! That's the way he !was perceived I am sure. Don't forget how many artists were wearing jumpsuits at that point. I think the use of classical music as an intro was innovative at that time although widely used now. He created a spectical and I think it worked although we now view it as cliched. I agree about the belt you can see that in EOT., he seems self concious about it. It spoils the spontaneity but PSA still looks cool as chuff!

Cheers

Re: Prince From Another Planet - Brilliant!

Sun Nov 25, 2012 12:33 am

Erhan wrote:
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Thanks Erhan :D

Re: Prince From Another Planet - Brilliant!

Sun Nov 25, 2012 12:39 am

Jamie wrote:Only with hindsight, I think at that point in time he was as cool as f%**! That's the way he !was perceived I am sure. Don't forget how many artists were wearing jumpsuits at that point. I think the use of classical music as an intro was innovative at that time although widely used now. He created a spectical and I think it worked although we now view it as cliched. I agree about the belt you can see that in EOT., he seems self concious about it. It spoils the spontaneity but PSA still looks cool as chuff!

Cheers

Still cool as chuff! Damn right! ABBA were a case in point...

It's about putting on a show - I for one love to see the showmanship - and definitely still cool!! :D

Re: Prince From Another Planet - Brilliant!

Sun Nov 25, 2012 12:51 am

Jamie wrote:Only with hindsight, I think at that point in time he was as cool as f%**! That's the way he !was perceived I am sure. Don't forget how many artists were wearing jumpsuits at that point. I think the use of classical music as an intro was innovative at that time although widely used now. He created a spectacle and I think it worked although we now view it as cliched. I agree about the belt you can see that in EOT., he seems self conscious about it. It spoils the spontaneity but PSA still looks cool as chuff!

Cheers

In general, not too many were put off by his appearance. Many were likely aware of Elvis' presentation as royalty by this point, and in fact jumpsuits were a norm in the attire of many at this time, from Sonny Bono to Jimmy Page.

It's unclear if anyone else was using "Also sprach Zarathustra" as an introduction, but the 1968 Stanley Kubrick film "2001: A Space Odyssey" was a huge success, and the reason most were familiar with the tone poem by Richard Strauss. Certainly, Las Vegas conductor Joe Guercio was captivated by it, enough so to suggest it to Elvis in 1971.

2001: A Space Odyssey (film)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2001:_A_Space_Odyssey_(film)#Music

It's pretty cool and quite ironic Strauss's notes to his Introduction call it "Sunrise."


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2001: A Space Odyssey (R. Strauss: Also Sprach Zarathustra) Kubrick video montage
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Also_sprach_Zarathustra_(Strauss)

Re: Prince From Another Planet - Brilliant!

Sun Nov 25, 2012 1:10 am

drjohncarpenter wrote:In general, not too many were put off by his appearance. Many were likely aware of Elvis' presentation as royalty by this point, and in fact jumpsuits were a norm in the attire of many at this time, from Sonny Bono to Jimmy Page.


Jimmy Page 1972:

Image

Sonny Bono 1972:

Image

If these guys donned jumpsuits later, perhaps they were influenced by Presley? Was Presley the first artist to use them? Anyway, it was an unfortunate trend:

Image

Mick Jagger 1973
Image

Jimmy Page 1973

Image

Re: Prince From Another Planet - Brilliant!

Sun Nov 25, 2012 1:47 am

monkboughtlunch wrote:
a mess of polk salad wrote:Nitpicking. But what about the 'stunning' footage?


Thanks for dismissing my review. Footage is great to see. Although a bit puffy and heavier than TTWII, the MSG fan footage finds Presley still quite capable of athletic stage movement. The oversized belts seem to be bothering him and restrict his movement -- he pauses at times during the MSG footage to reposition the large belt buckle in the middle of gyrations, thus impeding his momentum and throwing him off his game a bit. The jumpsuits and belts are becoming gaudier by this time period -- a powder blue jumpsuit with a cape is the epitome of "anti-cool."


About the belt... I'm not sure it was bothering him. I think he stopped his movements and adjusted his belt for comical effect. I don't like this part of Elvis' stage act, in fact I really dislike it, but he did stuff like that during his entire career. It ruined many a song. This same idea of fun made him change "you give me hope and consolation" to "you give me hope and constipation" in "The Wonder Of You". Elvis could be a funny guy but I despise this kind of humour.

Keith Richards, Jr.

Re: Prince From Another Planet - Brilliant!

Sun Nov 25, 2012 1:53 am

Keith Richards, Jr. wrote:About the belt... I'm not sure it was bothering him. I think he stopped his movements and adjusted his belt for comical effect. I don't like this part of Elvis' stage act, in fact I really dislike it, but he did stuff like that during his entire career. It ruined many a song. This same idea of fun made him change "you give me hope and consolation" to "you give me hope and constipation" in "The Wonder Of You". Elvis could be a funny guy but I despise this kind of hunour...

You are correct.

Self-depreciating stage movements such as fooling around with his belt may be seen as early as at Magnolia Gardens in August 1955. It means there was always a small part of him that felt uncomfortable up there.

That kind of stage business never really bothered me, but I fully agree that making light of certain lyrics -- especially in the 1970s -- was really unprofessional. That said, you can hear him doing the same thing on concert recordings in 1956 and 1961.

That Elvis could be a rascal!

Re: Prince From Another Planet - Brilliant!

Sun Nov 25, 2012 2:21 am

Keith Richards, Jr. wrote:
monkboughtlunch wrote:
a mess of polk salad wrote:Nitpicking. But what about the 'stunning' footage?


Thanks for dismissing my review. Footage is great to see. Although a bit puffy and heavier than TTWII, the MSG fan footage finds Presley still quite capable of athletic stage movement. The oversized belts seem to be bothering him and restrict his movement -- he pauses at times during the MSG footage to reposition the large belt buckle in the middle of gyrations, thus impeding his momentum and throwing him off his game a bit. The jumpsuits and belts are becoming gaudier by this time period -- a powder blue jumpsuit with a cape is the epitome of "anti-cool."


About the belt... I'm not sure it was bothering him. I think he stopped his movements and adjusted his belt for comical effect. I don't like this part of Elvis' stage act, in fact I really dislike it, but he did stuff like that during his entire career. It ruined many a song. This same idea of fun made him change "you give me hope and consolation" to "you give me hope and constipation" in "The Wonder Of You". Elvis could be a funny guy but I despise this kind of humour.

Keith Richards, Jr.


Yes, he did that stuff his entire career.
Maybe if he had not done that, he would have made himself a success. Seriously ......

I don't think you get it, in the context it was done in.

Elvis' thinking was, if you wanted a straight version of one of his songs, you could always stay at home
and listen to his records.
These are stage show bits and thing about Elvis, you didn't know what was coming next and that's what made people flock to his shows over and over again.
There are certain artists that if you see them once, that is all you need.
It's called a live show. He wasn't going to be a human juke box and just
grind out his records. He used humor in most of his shows.
Sometimes in ruined a song, but there was always a straight versions of it somewhere, be it live or studio.
We have the perfect master of "the wonder of you" so, the funny version is a bonus I think.

Re: Prince From Another Planet - Brilliant!

Sun Nov 25, 2012 2:21 am

monkboughtlunch wrote:
drjohncarpenter wrote:In general, not too many were put off by his appearance. Many were likely aware of Elvis' presentation as royalty by this point, and in fact jumpsuits were a norm in the attire of many at this time, from Sonny Bono to Jimmy Page.


Jimmy Page 1972:

Image

Sonny Bono 1972:

Image

If these guys donned jumpsuits later, perhaps they were influenced by Presley? Was Presley the first artist to use them? Anyway, it was an unfortunate trend:

Image

Mick Jagger 1973
Image

Jimmy Page 1973

Image


Why was i a unfortunate trend? If you were alive in 72 most everyone thought they were spectacular! Even the one Sonny Bono is wearing looks pretty cool. Anyway, Elvis was wearing 2 piece suits just about as much during this period so he wasn't just in jumpsuits in 72. The unfortunate thing was he continued to where the jumpsuits when he got heavy and it made him look terrible. Remember all styles look ridicules from the past and 20 years from now, everyone will be laughing at what is in style now!

Re: Prince From Another Planet - Brilliant!

Sun Nov 25, 2012 2:36 am

Keith Richards, Jr. wrote:
About the belt... I'm not sure it was bothering him. I think he stopped his movements and adjusted his belt for comical effect. I don't like this part of Elvis' stage act, in fact I really dislike it, but he did stuff like that during his entire career. It ruined many a song. This same idea of fun made him change "you give me hope and consolation" to "you give me hope and constipation" in "The Wonder Of You". Elvis could be a funny guy but I despise this kind of humour.

Keith Richards, Jr.


Check out (Suspicious Minds) 42:34 on the PFAP DVD. Presley repositions his oversized belt so he can drop down to do his leg splits -- and it doesn't appear he's moving the belt for comic effect either. The belt was impeding his movement. The belt would have dug into his left upper thigh if he didn't slide it upward before his leg splits.
Last edited by monkboughtlunch on Sun Nov 25, 2012 2:40 am, edited 3 times in total.

Re: Prince From Another Planet - Brilliant!

Sun Nov 25, 2012 2:37 am

ekenee wrote:
Keith Richards, Jr. wrote:
monkboughtlunch wrote:
a mess of polk salad wrote:Nitpicking. But what about the 'stunning' footage?


Thanks for dismissing my review. Footage is great to see. Although a bit puffy and heavier than TTWII, the MSG fan footage finds Presley still quite capable of athletic stage movement. The oversized belts seem to be bothering him and restrict his movement -- he pauses at times during the MSG footage to reposition the large belt buckle in the middle of gyrations, thus impeding his momentum and throwing him off his game a bit. The jumpsuits and belts are becoming gaudier by this time period -- a powder blue jumpsuit with a cape is the epitome of "anti-cool."


About the belt... I'm not sure it was bothering him. I think he stopped his movements and adjusted his belt for comical effect. I don't like this part of Elvis' stage act, in fact I really dislike it, but he did stuff like that during his entire career. It ruined many a song. This same idea of fun made him change "you give me hope and consolation" to "you give me hope and constipation" in "The Wonder Of You". Elvis could be a funny guy but I despise this kind of humour.

Keith Richards, Jr.


Yes, he did that stuff his entire career.
Maybe if he had not done that, he would have made himself a success. Seriously ......

I don't think you get it, in the context it was done in.

Elvis' thinking was, if you wanted a straight version of one of his songs, you could always stay at home
and listen to his records.
These are stage show bits and thing about Elvis, you didn't know what was coming next and that's what made people flock to his shows over and over again.
There are certain artists that if you see them once, that is all you need.
It's called a live show. He wasn't going to be a human juke box and just
grind out his records. He used humor in most of his shows.
Sometimes in ruined a song, but there was always a straight versions of it somewhere, be it live or studio.
We have the perfect master of "the wonder of you" so, the funny version is a bonus I think.

That's right...

Re: Prince From Another Planet - Brilliant!

Sun Nov 25, 2012 2:40 am

monkboughtlunch wrote:
Keith Richards, Jr. wrote:
About the belt... I'm not sure it was bothering him. I think he stopped his movements and adjusted his belt for comical effect. I don't like this part of Elvis' stage act, in fact I really dislike it, but he did stuff like that during his entire career. It ruined many a song. This same idea of fun made him change "you give me hope and consolation" to "you give me hope and constipation" in "The Wonder Of You". Elvis could be a funny guy but I despise this kind of humour.

Keith Richards, Jr.


Check out (Suspicious Minds) 42:34 on the PFAP DVD. Presley repositions his oversized belt so he can drop down to do his leg splits -- and it doesn't appear he's moving the belt for comic effect either. The belt was impeding his movement.

All those fantastic moves and you're focusing on his belt...

Re: Prince From Another Planet - Brilliant!

Sun Nov 25, 2012 2:43 am

a mess of polk salad wrote:
monkboughtlunch wrote:
Keith Richards, Jr. wrote:
About the belt... I'm not sure it was bothering him. I think he stopped his movements and adjusted his belt for comical effect. I don't like this part of Elvis' stage act, in fact I really dislike it, but he did stuff like that during his entire career. It ruined many a song. This same idea of fun made him change "you give me hope and consolation" to "you give me hope and constipation" in "The Wonder Of You". Elvis could be a funny guy but I despise this kind of humour.

Keith Richards, Jr.


Check out (Suspicious Minds) 42:34 on the PFAP DVD. Presley repositions his oversized belt so he can drop down to do his leg splits -- and it doesn't appear he's moving the belt for comic effect either. The belt was impeding his movement.

All those fantastic moves and you're focusing on his belt...


Please refer to you own post above for further reflection.

a mess of polk salad wrote:The belt didn't seem to throw him off his game at all imho.

Re: Prince From Another Planet - Brilliant!

Sun Nov 25, 2012 4:36 am

a mess of polk salad wrote:
monkboughtlunch wrote:
Keith Richards, Jr. wrote:
About the belt... I'm not sure it was bothering him. I think he stopped his movements and adjusted his belt for comical effect. I don't like this part of Elvis' stage act, in fact I really dislike it, but he did stuff like that during his entire career. It ruined many a song. This same idea of fun made him change "you give me hope and consolation" to "you give me hope and constipation" in "The Wonder Of You". Elvis could be a funny guy but I despise this kind of humour.

Keith Richards, Jr.


Check out (Suspicious Minds) 42:34 on the PFAP DVD. Presley repositions his oversized belt so he can drop down to do his leg splits -- and it doesn't appear he's moving the belt for comic effect either. The belt was impeding his movement.

All those fantastic moves and you're focusing on his belt...


All that great singing and you're focusing on his moves?

Re: Prince From Another Planet - Brilliant!

Sun Nov 25, 2012 5:34 am

Regarding the belt hitch business in Polk Salad Annie, I'm 100% sure that was done for comic effect. He also did it during PSA in EOT. He's sort of poking fun at his gyrations. On the other hand, the belt hitch during the leg stretch on Suspicious Minds is not done for comic effect. The belt seemed to be impeding him - catching on his hip - as he went into his stretch, so he picks it up.

Re: Prince From Another Planet - Brilliant!

Sun Nov 25, 2012 5:54 am

Pete Dube wrote:Regarding the belt hitch business in Polk Salad Annie, I'm 100% sure that was done for comic effect. He also did it during PSA in EOT. He's sort of poking fun at his gyrations. On the other hand, the belt hitch during the leg stretch on Suspicious Minds is not done for comic effect. The belt seemed to be impeding him - catching on his hip - as he went into his stretch, so he picks it up.

He did in fact remove the belt during the evening show...

Re: Prince From Another Planet - Brilliant!

Sun Nov 25, 2012 6:48 am

Brad, if we keep goin' on about Elvis' belt we're gonna have to do that football, hot wings and bar fight bit you mentioned awhile back!

Re: Prince From Another Planet - Brilliant!

Sun Nov 25, 2012 6:55 am

"You have to have the belt in the right place."

Re: Prince From Another Planet - Brilliant!

Sun Nov 25, 2012 11:37 am

poormadpeter wrote:
a mess of polk salad wrote:
monkboughtlunch wrote:
Keith Richards, Jr. wrote:
About the belt... I'm not sure it was bothering him. I think he stopped his movements and adjusted his belt for comical effect. I don't like this part of Elvis' stage act, in fact I really dislike it, but he did stuff like that during his entire career. It ruined many a song. This same idea of fun made him change "you give me hope and consolation" to "you give me hope and constipation" in "The Wonder Of You". Elvis could be a funny guy but I despise this kind of humour.

Keith Richards, Jr.


Check out (Suspicious Minds) 42:34 on the PFAP DVD. Presley repositions his oversized belt so he can drop down to do his leg splits -- and it doesn't appear he's moving the belt for comic effect either. The belt was impeding his movement.

All those fantastic moves and you're focusing on his belt...


All that great singing and you're focusing on his moves?


His fantastic voice goes without saying...

Re: Prince From Another Planet - Brilliant!

Mon Nov 26, 2012 3:17 pm

monkboughtlunch wrote:My review of PFAP:

1. The 2012 remixes are superior to the 1972 and 1997 originals. The 72 evening show mix had Elvis' vocals too low. the 97 Ferrante mix of the afternoon show was anemic

2. A little too much reverb and compression was used on the 2012 remixes to simulate a cavernous performance venue -- this approach reduces the dynamic range and "blurs' the sound

Interesting explanation for the sub-par audio quality.

However this conclusion surely negates your conclusion that that these remixes are superior to the original mixes. I also can't agree that Elvis' vocals were too low for the evening show. The main drawback on both releases was the lack of ambiance, which has been addressed but only at the expense (according to you) of an all too noticeable reduction of detail in the overall sound, which comes across loud and clear to anyone listening on a proper hi-fi set-up.
monkboughtlunch wrote:Overall, a nice effort, but there's certainly room for improvement (primarily: less reverb, less compression, complete press conference, better proofing of liner notes and better packaging not prone to damaging the discs or cardboard.) I'd give it 4 out of 5 stars.

Thanks in any case for posting your review. Taking all your other observations into account, I'd award it 3 out of 5 stars.