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Re: Bova Question: JB=Fact or Fiction???

Mon Nov 19, 2012 12:43 am

egilj wrote:In a addition to the five times mentioned above:
August 1969
August 1970
February, March, May and June 1971
(Guralnick)

If Elvis mentioned marriage I don't think that's a very big deal. He did that with most of the women he had a relationship with over a certain period of time. I think partly it was manipulation and partly an characteristically intense emotionally involvement in the moment.

11 and counting!

Thanks for sharing the additional information.

Re: Bova Question: JB=Fact or Fiction???

Mon Nov 19, 2012 12:46 am

drjohncarpenter wrote:
egilj wrote:In a addition to the five times mentioned above:
August 1969
August 1970
February, March, May and June 1971
(Guralnick)

If Elvis mentioned marriage I don't think that's a very big deal. He did that with most of the women he had a relationship with over a certain period of time. I think partly it was manipulation and partly an characteristically intense emotionally involvement in the moment.

11 and counting!

Thanks for sharing the additional information.

You're welcome!

Re: Bova Question: JB=Fact or Fiction???

Mon Nov 19, 2012 12:51 am

drjohncarpenter wrote:
egilj wrote:In a addition to the five times mentioned above:
August 1969
August 1970
February, March, May and June 1971
(Guralnick)

If Elvis mentioned marriage I don't think that's a very big deal. He did that with most of the women he had a relationship with over a certain period of time. I think partly it was manipulation and partly an characteristically intense emotionally involvement in the moment.

11 and counting!

Thanks for sharing the additional information.


You were waiting for someone to answer my question because you haven't read the book, right? :wink:
If you had read it you would have gotten my point. It's the same as egilj's, btw.

Re: Bova Question: JB=Fact or Fiction???

Mon Nov 19, 2012 1:21 am

You attempt to diminish the Presley-Bova relationship, but you do so without anything other that conjecture.

My feelings, based on testimony in her book and several others, is that the relationship was significant. And we're at almost a dozen known examples of them being together, which does your offhand comment about "4 or 5" no favors a-tall. And none of your subsequent replies have added anything to the conversation.

Re: Bova Question: JB=Fact or Fiction???

Mon Nov 19, 2012 5:17 am

drjohncarpenter wrote:You attempt to diminish the Presley-Bova relationship, but you do so without anything other that conjecture.

My feelings, based on testimony in her book and several others, is that the relationship was significant. And we're at almost a dozen known examples of them being together, which does your offhand comment about "4 or 5" no favors a-tall. And none of your subsequent replies have added anything to the conversatio.


Again, no. It's not conjecture. I have read Bova's book and several others just like you and my opnion is based on her facts. I don't think you can say the same since your posts about it are based on feelings. So it is you who isn't adding anything of worth to this conversation.

Come back to me when you read it, it's obvious you haven't.

Re: Bova Question: JB=Fact or Fiction???

Mon Nov 19, 2012 10:46 am

drjohncarpenter wrote:You attempt to diminish the Presley-Bova relationship, but you do so without anything other that conjecture.

My feelings, based on testimony in her book and several others, is that the relationship was significant. And we're at almost a dozen known examples of them being together, which does your offhand comment about "4 or 5" no favors a-tall. And none of your subsequent replies have added anything to the conversation.


If being together 11 times with a member of the opposite sex means means a relationship, I have quite a few relationships!
I'm now off t owife number 381983721, the lady at the counter of the supermarket. We meet every couple of days! :smt003
Joyce Bova was just a groupie who think she had a serious relationship.

Re: Bova Question: JB=Fact or Fiction???

Mon Nov 19, 2012 11:03 am

Aunt Delta wrote: I don't think you can say the same since your posts about it are based on feelings.

No, they are based on facts and details anyone may plainly see.

http://www.elvis-collectors.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=73238&start=0#p1097581
http://www.elvis-collectors.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=73238&start=0#p1098247
http://www.elvis-collectors.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=73238&start=0#p1098276
http://www.elvis-collectors.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=73238&start=25#p1102732


I go the extra mile -- unlike you, that's my style.

It's clear you have an agenda, or simply a bug up your rear, regarding Joyce Bova. There's zero interest on your part in having a real conversation, and heaven knows I gave you several chances. My reward? Imperious put-downs.

Have fun!

Re: Bova Question: JB=Fact or Fiction???

Mon Nov 19, 2012 1:13 pm

drjohncarpenter wrote:
Aunt Delta wrote: I don't think you can say the same since your posts about it are based on feelings.

No, they are based on facts and details anyone may plainly see.

http://www.elvis-collectors.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=73238&start=0#p1097581
http://www.elvis-collectors.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=73238&start=0#p1098247
http://www.elvis-collectors.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=73238&start=0#p1098276
http://www.elvis-collectors.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=73238&start=25#p1102732


I go the extra mile -- unlike you, that's my style.

It's clear you have an agenda, or simply a bug up your rear, regarding Joyce Bova. There's zero interest on your part in having a real conversation, and heaven knows I gave you several chances. My reward? Imperious put-downs.

Have fun!


That's the problem, you are not basing your opinion on facts because you have not read the whole story from the original source: Bova. So it's impossible for you to get the whole picture. It was clear from your first post:
It would be interesting to learn if this comes from Bova's own book, Don't Ask Forever, rather than a primary source.


... hence your misinformed assessment of Bova and Elvis' relationship.
Joyce was probably one of his most serious, post-Priscilla relationships.


And I wouldn't consider treating people with such disdain the ideal way to maintain a conversation.
My reward? After the few posts we have crossed I've learned there's no point in having a conversation with you, because it's plain to see your main goal is putting others down to make yourself feel important. So I guess this "conversation" we've had has been more useful for me than for you: now I know what to expect from you in future conversations, while you continue rejoicing on your ignorance about the matter.

Have a nice day!

Re: Bova Question: JB=Fact or Fiction???

Mon Nov 19, 2012 1:25 pm

I think Aunt Delta's back on the bottle. :D

Re: Bova Question: JB=Fact or Fiction???

Mon Nov 19, 2012 10:18 pm

promiseland wrote:I think Aunt Delta's back on the bottle. :D

Probably so. :D

The statement she quotes (and misunderstands) is nothing more than just letting readers know it was unclear whether Alanna Nash did a fresh interview with Bova, or simply sourced her stories from Joyce's 1994 publication.

Amazingly, I did not have both books sitting in my lap at the time to double-check, and I did not want to make undue assumptions.

So sorry, "Aunt Delta". But do carry on with your rude retorts.

Re: Bova Question: JB=Fact or Fiction???

Mon Nov 19, 2012 10:47 pm

drjohncarpenter wrote:
promiseland wrote:I think Aunt Delta's back on the bottle. :D

Probably so. :D

The statement she quotes (and misunderstands) is nothing more than just letting readers know it was unclear whether Alanna Nash did a fresh interview with Bova, or simply sourced her stories from Joyce's 1994 publication.

Amazingly, I did not have both books sitting in my lap at the time to double-check, and I did not want to make undue assumptions.

So sorry, "Aunt Delta". But do carry on with your rude retorts.


You should had warned me you had no idea what my post was about. It would have spared me both time and bandwidth. The sentence I properly highlighted from that post was about the extent of Elvis and Bova's relationship, as everybody can see and check on page 2 of this same thread.

And if you think I'm going to react to your last sentence you can wait in a very comfortable chair, because you'll sure need it.

Nice to meet you," Dr" John!

Re: Bova Question: JB=Fact or Fiction???

Tue Nov 20, 2012 4:41 am

Okay the pic with Elvis and the twins totally skeeves me out. It makes me want to high five Priscilla for leaving him, seriously what a dirt bag. It is stuff like this that makes me want to not defend Elvis against his detractors.

Re: Bova Question: JB=Fact or Fiction???

Tue Nov 20, 2012 4:52 am

josephinebeau wrote:Okay the pic with Elvis and the twins totally skeeves me out. It makes me want to high five Priscilla for leaving him, seriously what a dirt bag. It is stuff like this that makes me want to not defend Elvis against his detractors.

Your comment seems so angry. Why?

Re: Bova Question: JB=Fact or Fiction???

Tue Nov 20, 2012 4:58 am

josephinebeau wrote:Okay the pic with Elvis and the twins totally skeeves me out. It makes me want to high five Priscilla for leaving him, seriously what a dirt bag. It is stuff like this that makes me want to not defend Elvis against his detractors.


By Priscilla's own account she had an affair with her dance instructor long before Joyce was in the picture.

Re: Bova Question: JB=Fact or Fiction???

Tue Nov 20, 2012 7:17 am

josephinebeau wrote:Okay the pic with Elvis and the twins totally skeeves me out. It makes me want to high five Priscilla for leaving him, seriously what a dirt bag. It is stuff like this that makes me want to not defend Elvis against his detractors.


He fooled around. Do you know the percentage of men (and women, for that matter) who fool around? Let's see.

From
1. Atwood & Schwartz, ( 2002), Journal of Couple & Relationship Therapy
2. Current Anthropology 30(5): 654-676.

The extent of extramarital affairs to today’s society is by no means small. A paper written by Roy C Fair of the Yale University in 1978 and published in the Cowles Foundation Paper bases its analysis on two empirical studies conducted by reputed journals Psychology Today and Redbook. The data from the two surveys reveals astonishing number of couples were cheating on their spouses even in the 1970s - 27.2 percent of the first-time married working men and 22.9 percent of the first-time married working women were having extramarital affair at the time of the surveys. In the other survey of women only, 32.2 percent of the first time-married working women had had at least one affair during their married lives. More recent studies reveal that 45-55% of married women and 50-60% of married men engage in extramarital sex at some time or another during their lives1. The most significant conclusion that extramarital affair statistics then throw up is that larger number of people are cheating on their spouses than before. This proliferation of infidelity could be due to several causes; couples today may have higher level of expectations from the marital partner and when these are not met they are more likely to seek them outside marriage. Another reason could be economic independence for women which has made it easier for them to brave the risk of an affair and its consequences. Yet again the overall relaxation of moral standards in society has made infidelity, if not acceptable, at least less of a stigma.


They can't ALL be "dirtbags." It's very common. Name some "faithful" rock stars. Those who NEVER fooled around, or made a mess of a relationship. There might be a few, but they just don't immediately jump to mind. (John Lennon was generally faithful to Yoko, but he had a previous marriage, and a previous child, and he didn't do right by them. He also went a little crazy when he was with Yoko, and she rather famously had a "managed separation" - or something, to bring him around. And it worked out. But his son by Yoko said that before he was born, his dad did act like an "a**" and that he understood his imperfections, but it didn't really change anything for him. Uh, Paul was faithful to Linda, for sure. He's the marrying kind; there aren't many. I'm trying to think of some others; it's very hard! Have you heard the song "Diamonds and Rust"?)

rjm (Uh, "Psychology Today" and "Redbook" are not "reputed journals," but this information as published in actual "reputed journals.")

Re: Bova Question: JB=Fact or Fiction???

Tue Nov 20, 2012 11:19 am

Simon1 wrote:
josephinebeau wrote:Okay the pic with Elvis and the twins totally skeeves me out. It makes me want to high five Priscilla for leaving him, seriously what a dirt bag. It is stuff like this that makes me want to not defend Elvis against his detractors.


By Priscilla's own account she had an affair with her dance instructor long before Joyce was in the picture.

True!

Elvis = 10,000
Priscilla = 1

Re: Bova Question: JB=Fact or Fiction???

Tue Nov 20, 2012 2:11 pm

josephinebeau wrote:Okay the pic with Elvis and the twins totally skeeves me out. It makes me want to high five Priscilla for leaving him, seriously what a dirt bag. It is stuff like this that makes me want to not defend Elvis against his detractors.


A "dirt bag" Priscilla has exploited mercilessly since his death, so I don't know whose moral standars are lower.

Re: Bova Question: JB=Fact or Fiction???

Tue Nov 20, 2012 2:53 pm

josephinebeau wrote:Okay the pic with Elvis and the twins totally skeeves me out. It makes me want to high five Priscilla for leaving him, seriously what a dirt bag. It is stuff like this that makes me want to not defend Elvis against his detractors.


Dirt bag, it's a picture with two women. Kind of like the zillion he had taken in his lifetime. Lighten up Josephine!!

Re: Bova Question: JB=Fact or Fiction???

Tue Nov 20, 2012 2:55 pm

drjohncarpenter wrote:
Simon1 wrote:
josephinebeau wrote:Okay the pic with Elvis and the twins totally skeeves me out. It makes me want to high five Priscilla for leaving him, seriously what a dirt bag. It is stuff like this that makes me want to not defend Elvis against his detractors.


By Priscilla's own account she had an affair with her dance instructor long before Joyce was in the picture.

True!

Elvis = 10,000
Priscilla = 1


Dance instructor, karate instructor. I'm seeing a pattern here!

Re: Bova Question: JB=Fact or Fiction???

Tue Nov 20, 2012 6:02 pm

Joe Car wrote:
drjohncarpenter wrote:
Simon1 wrote:
josephinebeau wrote:Okay the pic with Elvis and the twins totally skeeves me out. It makes me want to high five Priscilla for leaving him, seriously what a dirt bag. It is stuff like this that makes me want to not defend Elvis against his detractors.


By Priscilla's own account she had an affair with her dance instructor long before Joyce was in the picture.

True!

Elvis = 10,000
Priscilla = 1


Dance instructor, karate instructor. I'm seeing a pattern here!


Co-stars, starlets, fans hanging around his homes. I see a pattern here too.

Re: Bova Question: JB=Fact or Fiction???

Tue Nov 20, 2012 6:52 pm

zolderopruiming1 wrote:
Joe Car wrote:
drjohncarpenter wrote:
Simon1 wrote:
josephinebeau wrote:Okay the pic with Elvis and the twins totally skeeves me out. It makes me want to high five Priscilla for leaving him, seriously what a dirt bag. It is stuff like this that makes me want to not defend Elvis against his detractors.


By Priscilla's own account she had an affair with her dance instructor long before Joyce was in the picture.

True!

Elvis = 10,000
Priscilla = 1


Dance instructor, karate instructor. I'm seeing a pattern here!


Co-stars, starlets, fans hanging around his homes. I see a pattern here too.


Aww, that's a pattern us men can only dream about, if you're single of course! :)

Re: Bova Question: JB=Fact or Fiction???

Tue Nov 20, 2012 7:05 pm

Joe Car wrote:
zolderopruiming1 wrote:
Joe Car wrote:
drjohncarpenter wrote:
Simon1 wrote:
josephinebeau wrote:Okay the pic with Elvis and the twins totally skeeves me out. It makes me want to high five Priscilla for leaving him, seriously what a dirt bag. It is stuff like this that makes me want to not defend Elvis against his detractors.


By Priscilla's own account she had an affair with her dance instructor long before Joyce was in the picture.

True!

Elvis = 10,000
Priscilla = 1


Dance instructor, karate instructor. I'm seeing a pattern here!


Co-stars, starlets, fans hanging around his homes. I see a pattern here too.


Aww, that's a pattern us men can only dream about, if you're single of course! :)


It didn't stop the married men at Graceland and Hollywood/Los Angeles homes.

Re: Bova Question: JB=Fact or Fiction???

Tue Nov 20, 2012 7:14 pm

josephinebeau wrote:Okay the pic with Elvis and the twins totally skeeves me out. It makes me want to high five Priscilla for leaving him, seriously what a dirt bag. It is stuff like this that makes me want to not defend Elvis against his detractors.


I think it is quite dangerous to mix matters up. Elvis was by no means a saint, but calling him a dirt bag is a bit much imho. Also, the very fact that Elvis was no saint stops you from defending him against his detractors? That seems a bit harsh also. Let me paraphrese the doc: why the anger? It is a very valid question.

Also, i think you are looking at a different time frame with they eyes of today. For us to understand him, or try to, we must look trough his eyes as much as we can and place ourselves in the times that were then.

By no means meant as defense, but his marriage was an unhealthy one. If you read Priscilla's book and put things in proper timelines, you can easily calculate that she was having an affair very early on in their marriage.

I think Elvis and Priscilla discovered their mutual love and respect too late, when the damage was already done, on both sides. The binding element was ofcourse their daughter.

And i do think that Elvis' was sincerely heartbroken when the marriage dissolved. In the years that were at play, he more than once seriously OD'd: the cries for help from a spiritually broken man.

Re: Bova Question: JB=Fact or Fiction???

Tue Nov 20, 2012 7:24 pm

If you thinl Elvis was a dirtbag than you must think most rock stars are dirtbags because most cheated at some point. And not to let Elvis off the hook but both him and Priscilla were cheating on each other. Although Elvis started cheating first.

Joyce looked like a low rent version of Priscilla.

Re: Bova Question: JB=Fact or Fiction???

Tue Nov 20, 2012 11:04 pm

DEH wrote:If you thinl Elvis was a dirtbag than you must think most rock stars are dirtbags because most cheated at some point. And not to let Elvis off the hook but both him and Priscilla were cheating on each other. Although Elvis started cheating first.

Excellent point.

Elvis = 20,000
Priscilla = 1