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Re: Elvis Saw Tom at the Forum --> It's No Mystery Now!

Mon Nov 12, 2012 2:39 am

As noted, the sign does appear to show "Nook," which would imply Nero's Nook. So we are back to Caesar's Palace.

Was Elvis such a Norm Crosby fan as to make a public appearance to see the man? I doubt it. And Nero's Nook usually booked a music act and a comedian. According to your Billboard link, Woody Herman and his Thundering Herd were also in Nero's Nook, the upscale, 500-seat lounge.


Billboard Sep 12 1970 p30.jpg
Billboard - September 12, 1970
Note Norm Crosby and Woody Herman at Nero's Nook, and also the comments about Elvis' Vegas gig.


So we have a bill of Woody Herman and his Thundering Herd and Norm Crosby. Pretty much not really sounding like a show Elvis would see.


700800_Woody Herman's Thundering Herd_Caesar's Palace.jpg
Woody Herman and His Thundering Herd, Caesar's Palace, August 1970


Cleopatra's Barge, which opened in August, was an 80-seat "floating" nightclub, and was currently featuring the Latin rhythms of Pupi Campo. Again, not an Elvis hot spot.


Billboard Aug 22 1970 p41.jpg
Billboard - August 22, 1970
Note reviews of Presley's show, Sinatra's show, and comment about opening of Cleopatra's Barge.


As seen above, in the main room at Caesar's Palace, starting on August 6 and finishing on September 2, was ... Nancy Sinatra, with the Blossoms and the Osmond Brothers as support. Elvis, of course, adored Nancy, having worked with her in "Speedway" back in 1967, and he knew her from his appearance on her dad's TV special in May 1960. And he had worked with the Blossoms in 1968 and 1969.

So, the logical conclusion now is that we see Elvis attending one of Nancy's performances at Caesar's Palace, perhaps even opening night, Thursday, August 6, 1970. It was a big deal, and it would fit him to attend. Maybe he even got a special invite from Frank Sinatra pal, Jilly Rizzo:


700806_Nancy Sinatra_Caesar's Opening Invite_01.JPG
700806_Nancy Sinatra_Caesar's Opening Invite_02.JPG


All the other aspects of these candids as noted before fit here as well -- the tan, the people with him, and the fact that he was in Las Vegas, getting ready for his opening on August 10. Turns out my chronology was only off by about a week and a half.

So thank you jonburrows for finding the CLUE in the photo, and I think the mystery is .. finally ... solved! As always, I knew fans here would help out.

Sorry, Tom -- Nancy wins!


phpBB [video]


Nancy Sinatra, Tom Jones "We've Only Just Begun" (ABC-TV, "This Is Tom Jones," October 30, 1970)

Of course, I've updated my original post .. a bit. Don't want to hurt Tom's feelings too much. ;-)
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Re: Elvis Saw Nancy at Caesar's --> It's Really No Mystery N

Mon Nov 12, 2012 5:43 am

Good eye jon_burrows! I'll word the link to read - Attending a show at Caesar's Palace sometime in Augsut 1970...Nancy S, maybe, who knows ;-)

Re: Elvis Saw Tom at the Forum --> It's No Mystery Now!

Mon Nov 12, 2012 10:23 am

drjohncarpenter wrote:
jon_burrows wrote:PS. what looks like 'nero'S NOOK' appears just above 'noRM croSBY' in photo ...03.JPG.

I blew up the image, it probably is a reference to Nero's Nook, the upscale lounge at Caesar's Palace. This is the background confirmation I was seeking.


sign blow-up.jpg


Sadly, this means we must start again, and scratch Tom Jones from the list of shows he might have seen. Tom was not at Caesar's Palace at this time.

However, further research indicates your conclusion about Norm Crosby on September 12, 1970 is incorrect. That is the date of the Billboard issue, not the start of his lounge engagement. And Elvis wasn't going to Nero's Nook, either. Stand by.

Please also note that the woman in the first posted photo is definitely NOT Barbara Leigh.

Although I didn't want to pay the $60.00 membership to read this article, Van Nuys News has an article dated Aug 14, 1970, stating Norm Crosby is now playing at Nero's Nook Caesars Palace Las Vegas and mentions Nancy Sinatra as there also before the Google search header cuts off.
This is important as it coincides with the sign in the photo you have enlarged.
Norm Crosby's two week engagement narrows the date of the photo around Aug 14, 1970 give or take a week or as possibly the 14th in itself as the correct date.
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Re: Elvis Saw Nancy at Caesar's --> It's Really No Mystery N

Mon Nov 12, 2012 1:07 pm

Thank you Doc and Paul Sweeney. I'm glad my info helped confirm the location and pointed you in the right direction for the date.

Re: Elvis Saw Tom at the Forum --> It's No Mystery Now!

Mon Nov 12, 2012 1:53 pm

promiseland wrote:...possibly the 14th in itself as the correct date.

If this latest conjecture is to be believed, then August 14, 1970 would be an improbable date, as Elvis was busy playing his own gig that night over at the International.

You can find this excellent show [in better than average audience recorded sound] on the below CD.
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Re: Elvis Saw Tom at the Forum --> It's No Mystery Now!

Mon Nov 12, 2012 3:15 pm

promiseland wrote:Although I didn't want to pay the $60.00 membership to read this article, Van Nuys News has an article dated Aug 14, 1970, stating Norm Crosby is now playing at Nero's Nook Caesars Palace Las Vegas and mentions Nancy Sinatra as there also before the Google search header cuts off.
This is important as it coincides with the sign in the photo you have enlarged.
Norm Crosby's two week engagement narrows the date of the photo around Aug 14, 1970 give or take a week or as possibly the 14th in itself as the correct date.

Elvis had two shows that day, and two the prior day and two the following day. August 14 is unlikely. He would be primarily doing two-a-nights until September 8. Do not forget that the Nero's Nook sign jonburrows identified could be for "Now Playing" or for "Coming Soon." We would need to see the entire sign to be sure.

One thing for sure is that Nancy Sinatra's August 6, 1970 opening at Caesar's Palace -- her debut at this Vegas monstrosity -- was a BIG deal. That it happened four days before Elvis had to get to work at the International makes it a prime date for Elvis to have attended. As noted, after August 10 he would be very busy.

That Charlie, Felton and Richard are seen attending with him would fit in with those men all working with him in preparation for the August 10 date. That Elvis was caught by the paparazzi would also dovetail with this event -- of course many photographers would be around, to capture all the big name celebs going to Nancy's opening night. That all the gentlemen are dressed up also fits with a special, opening night scenario.

Again, my original chronology only needs to be bumped 12 days -- and it seems overwhelming now that the photos capture Elvis seeing his dear friend Nancy (and 1968 TV Special backup singers, the Blossoms) on opening night, Thursday, August 6, 1970.

Note that I would delete and re-write the entire original post, except the Tom Jones stuff took hours to research and prepare, Jones is pretty cool, and the information is worth keeping on FECC for future reference. I wish I could have spotted the "Neros' Nook" clue in the black and white image to begin with, and had the location confirmed right off the bat, but that's the way the mop flops.
Last edited by drjohncarpenter on Mon Nov 12, 2012 3:36 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Re: Elvis Saw Tom at the Forum --> It's No Mystery Now!

Mon Nov 12, 2012 3:33 pm

drjohncarpenter wrote:That all the gentlemen are dressed up also fits with a special, opening night scenario.

It's a shame you failed to mention this in your original - now abandoned - Elvis Saw Tom at The Forum --> It's No Mystery Now! topic.

I can't imagine how silly all your devotees must feel now!

::rocks

Re: Elvis Saw Tom at the Forum --> It's No Mystery Now!

Mon Nov 12, 2012 3:43 pm

elvisalisellers wrote:It's a shame you failed to mention this in your original - now abandoned - Elvis Saw Tom at The Forum --> It's No mystery Now! topic.

Click the "1" link on this page, and you will discover the topic remains, for reasons just noted above.

And if you do revisit my original post, pay careful attention to these two sentences:


drjohncarpenter wrote:If we are certain it is a Tom Jones show Elvis is at in those photos, it seems Jones DID play the Inglewood Forum on Saturday, July 25, 1970, with support from the Count Basie Orchestra, Gladys Knight & the Pips and comedian Norm Crosby.

drjohncarpenter wrote:So, if we're talking Tom Jones, then the photos are from Elvis and his crew at the Inglewood Forum, catching Jones in concert on a hot Saturday evening in the summer of 1970 - July 25th to be exact.


I twice explain the nature of my search, and the parameters I set.

My "devotees" are probably even more pleased I stayed on the case after jonburrows made a keen observation, and managed to ferret out exactly where Elvis was, what he was doing, and when.

Please let us know when you offer such due diligence on an FECC subject, instead choosing to make fun of other people.

Thank you.

Re: Elvis Saw Nancy at Caesar's --> It's Really No Mystery N

Mon Nov 12, 2012 5:50 pm

fantastic research work Doctor John Carpenter - I/ we all thank you for sharing this with us all -

Re: Elvis Saw Tom at the Forum --> It's No Mystery Now!

Mon Nov 12, 2012 6:12 pm

drjohncarpenter wrote:Please let us know when you offer such due diligence on an FECC subject, instead choosing to make fun of other people.

On the contrary.

I would suggest it's you who should practice being more diligent before posting any more of your "Mystery Solved!" topics.

That way, you are less likely to cause embarrassment to others in future.

Re: Elvis Saw Tom at the Forum --> It's No Mystery Now!

Mon Nov 12, 2012 7:22 pm

elvisalisellers wrote:
drjohncarpenter wrote:Please let us know when you offer such due diligence on an FECC subject, instead choosing to make fun of other people.

On the contrary.

I would suggest it's you who should practice being more diligent before posting any more of your "Mystery Solved!" topics.

That way, you are less likely to cause embarrassment to others in future.



Quite the opposite, actually.

Doc and others solved the Mystery through TEAMWORK!

Doc puts a lot of time and effort into the "Mystery Solved!" topics and I, for one, appreciate it!

::rocks

Re: Elvis Saw Tom at the Forum --> It's No Mystery Now!

Mon Nov 12, 2012 8:27 pm

drjohncarpenter wrote:Please let us know when you offer such due diligence on an FECC subject, instead choosing to make fun of other people.

Thank you.

Yes, you never make fun of other people here at FEEC. If it wasn't for another member you would make us all believe Elvis attended a Tom Jones show. Bull's Eye, Carpenter.

Re: Elvis Saw Nancy at Caesar's --> It's Really No Mystery N

Mon Nov 12, 2012 9:58 pm

quote "Please let us know when you offer such due diligence on an FECC subject, instead choosing to make fun of other people."

Thank you.


Dear dear....

Re: Elvis Saw Nancy at Caesar's --> It's Really No Mystery N

Tue Nov 13, 2012 5:40 am

karlos wrote:fantastic research work Doctor John Carpenter - I/ we all thank you for sharing this with us all -

Thanks for the kind words.

I post because of the many people here on FECC like you, not the tiny-minded, jealous minority.

Re: Elvis Saw Tom at the Forum --> It's No Mystery Now!

Tue Nov 13, 2012 9:15 pm

EPA4368 wrote:Doc and others solved the Mystery through TEAMWORK!

Doc puts a lot of time and effort into the "Mystery Solved!" topics and I, for one, appreciate it!

::rocks

Thank you so much for the spot-on assessment and compliment.

::rocks

Re: Elvis Saw Nancy at Caesar's --> It's Really No Mystery N

Wed Nov 14, 2012 1:33 am

I does show that circumstantial evidence can be taken and slanted any way you want it to.

And also how easily people can be convinced with this circumstantial evidence.

But, it also shows that if you plant a seed, there is team work on this board that
can solve these mysteries by combining their efforts.
It only takes a different set of eyes to catch something everyone else missed.

It's too bad that at least one of Elvis' regular friends didn't keep a diary of what Elvis did every day.

Re: Elvis Saw Nancy at Caesar's --> It's Really No Mystery N

Wed Nov 14, 2012 3:15 am

Some impressive research here...nice work Doc.

Re: Elvis Saw Nancy at Caesar's --> It's Really No Mystery N

Wed Nov 14, 2012 3:20 am

Justin wrote:Some impressive research here...nice work Doc.

Thank you. And thanks again to jonburrows, who deciphered "Nero's Nook" in the black and white photo, which compelled me to dig deeper, reassess, and find out exactly when these photos were taken.

IIRC, member TCB TED is also a member of The Sinatra Family Forum, moderated by ... Nancy Sinatra. If he could ask her if she remembers Elvis at her Caesar's Palace debut in 1970, that would be the icing on the cake!

Re: Elvis Saw Nancy at Caesar's --> It's Really No Mystery N

Wed Nov 14, 2012 3:31 am

ekenee wrote:I does show that circumstantial evidence can be taken and slanted any way you want it to.

And also how easily people can be convinced with this circumstantial evidence.

But, it also shows that if you plant a seed, there is team work on this board that
can solve these mysteries by combining their efforts.
It only takes a different set of eyes to catch something everyone else missed.

It's too bad that at least one of Elvis' regular friends didn't keep a diary of what Elvis did every day.


Spot on ekenee.The doc's original research coupled with jon burrows keen observation and doc's re- evaluation have come up with another FECC gem.Well done guys.

norrie

Re: Elvis Saw Nancy at Caesar's --> It's Really No Mystery N

Wed Nov 14, 2012 3:33 am

Justin wrote:Some impressive research here...nice work Doc.

Which impressive research are you speaking of "Justin."

Tom at the Forum or Nancy at Caesar's ?

Re: Elvis Saw Nancy at Caesar's --> It's Really No Mystery N

Wed Nov 14, 2012 8:19 am

norrie wrote:The doc's original research coupled with jon burrows keen observation and doc's re- evaluation have come up with another FECC gem.Well done guys.

Thanks norrie.

This is the kind of thing I enjoy doing, setting the record straight on moments in Elvis' career that otherwise get twisted by people who don't know what they're talking about.

::rocks

Re: Elvis Saw Nancy at Caesar's --> It's Really No Mystery N

Thu Nov 15, 2012 3:50 am

The program from Nancy Sinatra's August 6, 1970 debut shows even more reasons why Elvis would be there:


700806_Nancy Sinatra_Program.jpg
Nancy Sinatra, Caesar's Palace program, August 6, 1970


Note Billy Strange (guitar) and Hal Blaine (drums) prominently featured -- they were part of Nancy's band and had worked with her. Each were session pros who also worked with Elvis in West Hollywood, and Strange co-wrote songs with Mac Davis that Presley cut, and he produced a few sessions with Elvis in 1968 as well.

Thank you.
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Re: Elvis Saw Nancy at Caesar's --> It's Really No Mystery N

Thu Nov 15, 2012 4:41 am

Thanks for the research and the thread,John.

Rex Martin in his website dated the picture of Elvis with Richard Davis as 13th October 1970 LAS VEGAS. I don't lnow if that is accurate or not.

Re: Elvis Saw Nancy at Caesar's --> It's Really No Mystery N

Thu Nov 15, 2012 5:25 am

I can't get to my photos right now, I moved them to a safe place when we went through the storm here in Long Island, But I do remember a photo of Elvis with Larry Gatlin and he is standing in front of a dressing room door that reads Sinatra?

Re: Elvis Saw Nancy at Caesar's --> It's Really No Mystery N

Thu Nov 15, 2012 5:36 am

Jove wrote:Thanks for the research and the thread,John.

Rex Martin in his website dated the picture of Elvis with Richard Davis as 13th October 1970 LAS VEGAS. I don't lnow if that is accurate or not.

If the research on this topic is to be believed, then that date is incorrect.