Off Topic Messages

Greensleeves

Thu Aug 16, 2012 1:41 am

This is a great medieval song, and I was thinking about this song today and thinking maybe Elvis could have done a cover of this song, after all he did It's Now or Never so he could have done an amazing job with this as well. I mean it would have suited him if he speed it up a bit, who knows it might have been a worldwide number one hit.

By the way I couldn't find a proper version of this song on YouTube, there are some sing it like morons and some sing it like crazy old lady, I saw one clip where a bunch of men sing it like a woman. Can someone find me a proper version of this please??? Thanks in advance. :smt006

Re: Greensleeves

Thu Aug 16, 2012 1:47 am

Two "proper" versions:

Celtic Woman:

phpBB [video]



This song is actually the melody of Greensleeves!! Yes!

phpBB [video]




rjm
P.S. -- You're right, actually: he should have done the real thing, with the right sound, and more appropriate lyrics, for the '71 Christmas album, I think. It is, now, commonly used as a Carol. Would have been lovely.

Re: Greensleeves

Thu Aug 16, 2012 1:59 am

Thanks rjm, yes that's interesting I didn't know about that Stay Away song sounded a bit like Greensleeves 8)

But I was thinking of a cover with a strong and pure singing voice like Elvis'

Re: Greensleeves

Thu Aug 16, 2012 2:02 am

rjm wrote:Two "proper" versions:

Celtic Woman:

phpBB [video]



This song is actually the melody of Greensleeves!! Yes!

phpBB [video]




rjm
P.S. -- You're right, actually: he should have done the real thing, with the right sound, and more appropriate lyrics, for the '71 Christmas album, I think. It is, now, commonly used as a Carol. Would have been lovely.
I was actually thinking maybe he could have sing Greensleeves in 68 Comeback Special stand-up shows along with Can't Help Falling in Love and Love Me Tender. 8)

Re: Greensleeves

Thu Aug 16, 2012 3:41 am

Anyway, this is the Carol version of Greensleeves:

phpBB [video]



rjm
P.S. -- Someone should collect all the classic folk melodies Elvis did. Now or Never, Surrender, Love Me Tender, probably Forget Me Never, Tender Feeling, and Stay Away. Probably did quite a few more.

Re: Greensleeves

Thu Aug 16, 2012 4:05 am

ElvisLive3August1969 wrote:Thanks rjm, yes that's interesting I didn't know about that Stay Away song sounded a bit like Greensleeves ...

1968's "Stay Away," written by Sid Tepper and Roy C. Bennett, was absolutely based on the public domain melody of "Greensleeves." Bennett says so in an interview found on FECC:

There is one song that seems to initially NOT have been written for a movie. E. Jorgensen says in his book "A Life In Music" that in 1967, Elvis had requested that a song be written based on the old melody "Greensleeves" and that you came up with a song called "Evergreen", which was submitted to Elvis for his Sept. 10/11, 1967 non movie studio session but not recorded.

Then, it seems that you were asked to write new words to "Evergreen", as after the soundtrack recordings for the movie "Stay Away, Joe" (done on Oct. 1, 1967), Col. Parker & MGM both agreed that an additional song should be recorded and that this song would be played over the opening credits, and that is how you came up with "Stay Away", which was recorded during a non movie session in Jan. '68 but the song did indeed appear in the movie during the opening credits (with an up tempo arrangement, even though you had originally written it in a slow/medium tempo).

Is all that accurate?


I don't remember having written a song titled Evergreen. It's my impression that Sid and I were the ones who chose the melody of Greensleeves, but I defer to any records that show differently. You may have noted that several of our songs for Elvis are based on public domain tunes: Puppet on a String, I Love Only One Girl, Five Sleepyheads. I recall that the up-tempo of Stay Away came as a pleasant surprise.

Interview with Roy C. Bennett
http://www.elvis-collectors.com/interview_bennett.html


Bennett just turned 94 on Monday! All the best to him.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roy_C._Bennett

---

Incidentally, Elvis was very naughty during the January 1968 sessions, and some of the outtakes are a wee bit profane.

Re: Greensleeves

Thu Aug 16, 2012 4:09 am

drjohncarpenter wrote:
ElvisLive3August1969 wrote:Thanks rjm, yes that's interesting I didn't know about that Stay Away song sounded a bit like Greensleeves ...

1968's "Stay Away," written by Sid Tepper and Roy C. Bennett, was absolutely based on the public domain melody of "Greensleeves." Bennett says so in an interview found on FECC:

There is one song that seems to initially NOT have been written for a movie. E. Jorgensen says in his book "A Life In Music" that in 1967, Elvis had requested that a song be written based on the old melody "Greensleeves" and that you came up with a song called "Evergreen", which was submitted to Elvis for his Sept. 10/11, 1967 non movie studio session but not recorded.

Then, it seems that you were asked to write new words to "Evergreen", as after the soundtrack recordings for the movie "Stay Away, Joe" (done on Oct. 1, 1967), Col. Parker & MGM both agreed that an additional song should be recorded and that this song would be played over the opening credits, and that is how you came up with "Stay Away", which was recorded during a non movie session in Jan. '68 but the song did indeed appear in the movie during the opening credits (with an up tempo arrangement, even though you had originally written it in a slow/medium tempo).

Is all that accurate?


I don't remember having written a song titled Evergreen. It's my impression that Sid and I were the ones who chose the melody of Greensleeves, but I defer to any records that show differently. You may have noted that several of our songs for Elvis are based on public domain tunes: Puppet on a String, I Love Only One Girl, Five Sleepyheads. I recall that the up-tempo of Stay Away came as a pleasant surprise.

Interview with Roy C. Bennett
http://www.elvis-collectors.com/interview_bennett.html


Bennett just turned 94 on Monday! All the best to him.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roy_C._Bennett

---

Incidentally, Elvis was very naughty during the January 1968 sessions, and some of the outtakes are a wee bit profane.


Thanks, Doc, for the refresher! I forgot the details. And he WAS naughty, not "nice": "What Child Is This?" indeed! :smt002

rjm

Re: Greensleeves

Thu Aug 16, 2012 4:18 am

rjm wrote:Anyway, this is the Carol version of Greensleeves:

phpBB [video]



rjm
P.S. -- Someone should collect all the classic folk melodies Elvis did. Now or Never, Surrender, Love Me Tender, probably Forget Me Never, Tender Feeling, and Stay Away. Probably did quite a few more.


It's Now or Never and Surrender are not folk melodies!!!

Re: Greensleeves

Thu Aug 16, 2012 7:19 am

poormadpeter wrote:
rjm wrote:Anyway, this is the Carol version of Greensleeves:

phpBB [video]



rjm
P.S. -- Someone should collect all the classic folk melodies Elvis did. Now or Never, Surrender, Love Me Tender, probably Forget Me Never, Tender Feeling, and Stay Away. Probably did quite a few more.


It's Now or Never and Surrender are not folk melodies!!!


Well, what would you call 'em, exactly? They're not Grand Opera? Do you mean they were popular songs? Were they in the Public Domain at the time? Did the Italian people associate either with a particular recording artist? What else is folk,but songs everybody sings, and they know not where from?

Maybe I'm wrong. (I was just trying to be global!)

rjm
P.S. -- Ok, not technically. But they weren't "records" either, properly. Everybody sang those songs!

Wikipedia, about O Solo Mio wrote:"'O sole mio" is a globally known Neapolitan song written in 1898. Its lyrics were written by Giovanni Capurro and the melody was composed by Eduardo di Capua. There are other versions of "'O sole mio" but it usually sung in the original Neapolitan language. 'O sole mio is the Neapolitan equivalent of standard Italian Il sole mio and translates literally as "my sunshine."

Re: Greensleeves

Thu Aug 16, 2012 6:08 pm

A nice little ditty from Jeff Beck circa 1968. Later, apparently a favorite of Paul and Linda McCartney.

phpBB [video]

Re: Greensleeves

Thu Aug 16, 2012 6:59 pm

rjm wrote:
poormadpeter wrote:
rjm wrote:Anyway, this is the Carol version of Greensleeves:

phpBB [video]



rjm
P.S. -- Someone should collect all the classic folk melodies Elvis did. Now or Never, Surrender, Love Me Tender, probably Forget Me Never, Tender Feeling, and Stay Away. Probably did quite a few more.


It's Now or Never and Surrender are not folk melodies!!!


Well, what would you call 'em, exactly? They're not Grand Opera? Do you mean they were popular songs? Were they in the Public Domain at the time? Did the Italian people associate either with a particular recording artist? What else is folk,but songs everybody sings, and they know not where from?

Maybe I'm wrong. (I was just trying to be global!)

rjm
P.S. -- Ok, not technically. But they weren't "records" either, properly. Everybody sang those songs!

Wikipedia, about O Solo Mio wrote:"'O sole mio" is a globally known Neapolitan song written in 1898. Its lyrics were written by Giovanni Capurro and the melody was composed by Eduardo di Capua. There are other versions of "'O sole mio" but it usually sung in the original Neapolitan language. 'O sole mio is the Neapolitan equivalent of standard Italian Il sole mio and translates literally as "my sunshine."


Traditional folk music (as opposed to the Peter, Paul and Mary variety) is generally regarded as music of an unknown of unconfirmed author that has been handed down through the generations basically by mouth. O Sole Mio is nearer to classical music. It was written, as you say, at the turn of the 20th Century and brought to international prominence in the main via recordings by Caruso, Gigli and others. It is operatic in style and can most often be found in the repertoire of opera singers. There is no way we can refer to this as folk music, or the folk music of Italy, any more than we would suggest that the music of Gilbert and Sullivan or Elgar is the folk music of the UK or a song by Irving Berlin as the folk music of America. The song is in copyright until 2042.

While we do know the author of some "folk songs" such as Joseph Webster writing Lorena, on which Forget Me Never may or may not be based, the style of the music is clearly very different (it is folk not operatic, and its age is considerably older (pre Civil war).

So, It's Now or Never and Surrender are basically adapations of classical melodies in the say way that Tonight's/Tonight Is So Right For Love (based on Offenbach and Strauss), Today Tomorrow and Forever (Liszt) and Am I Ready (MacDowell) are.

Re: Greensleeves

Thu Aug 16, 2012 7:06 pm

I think you're both right.
'O Sole Mio and Torna a Surriento are operatic-type songs, but are mainly seen as traditional Neapolitan songs over here (Italy), and most people know the words. So I don't think folk music, whislt technically not exact, is actually a wrong definition of either.
Let's not forget Santa Lucia either, the only song Elvis recorded in Italian (accent well-exexcuted, by the way).

Anyway, Greenleeves: 'Elvis sings Henry VIII'. Love it.

Re: Greensleeves

Thu Aug 16, 2012 7:17 pm

JaneTLC wrote:I think you're both right.
'O Sole Mio and Torna a Surriento are operatic-type songs, but are mainly seen as traditional Neapolitan songs over here (Italy), and most people know the words. So I don't think folk music, whislt technically not exact, is actually a wrong definition of either.
Let's not forget Santa Lucia either, the only song Elvis recorded in Italian (accent well-exexcuted, by the way).

Anyway, Greenleeves: 'Elvis sings Henry VIII'. Love it.


yes, forgot that - although Santa Lucia is of unknown authorship from what I remember. It's generally thought now that Greensleeves wasn't composed by ol' Henry after all but about 50 or 60 years after he died.

Re: Greensleeves

Fri Aug 17, 2012 12:56 am

I think these are the best versions from female singers available on YouTube at the moment.
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And this is a pop version.
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And this one is good too!
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And this the only good version from a male singer that I can find on YouTube at the moment. Okay it's not that good but it's better than others on there! :)
phpBB [video]

Re: Greensleeves

Fri Aug 17, 2012 5:07 am

As to the "what constitutes folk" argument, it's not cut and dried, chiefly due to the era in which published sheet music was available for public use in playing what is sometimes called "Parlor Music." Now, with many Euro-songs, that's different, because then the classical composition tradition comes into play. Authorship was SO important in that tradition.

Irving Berlin wrote mainly in the era of recorded music, when written and published songs had "an original recording" by an "original artist." So, that's a game-changer - what he did was fundamentally different. Still, recorded popular songs sometimes made their way to genuine folk artists such as when the Carter Family "collected" "Are You Lonesome Tonight." It sounds like a folk song when they do it, but it was not. The lines can be blurry, which is a good thing, I think. Music is a shared language, after all. We're gotten away from that notion, and that's a shame. In any event, there was a time when the authorship of songs was known, but when they traveled freely through the musicverse, evolving and changing with each rendition, and in different contexts.

What is "Danny Boy," after all? We know who wrote the words, after a number of attempts that just didn't cut it. But in Ireland, they say the melody was written by wood sprites. (Elvis said "the angels" wrote the melody.) It seems to have been first heard by a fellow named "Jimmy The Fiddler" playing it. I do not think he claimed it, so it came from the woods. But without the published lyrics, it might never have truly caught on as it has. And, after that, just everybody sang it - didn't matter where it came from. That's what I mean by "blurry."

rjm

Re: Greensleeves

Fri Aug 17, 2012 7:12 am

If the use of the Greensleeves melody was a specific request from Elvis (or perhaps the Colonel), it's possible that this was a response to an idea from the British fan club. Albert Hand, the President of the Fan Club and editor of Elvis Monthly, had the idea of asking Elvis to record a single for the British/Irish fans with "Danny Boy" on the A-side and "Greensleeves" on the B-side. The idea came about because Dee Stanley told Albert how amazing Elvis sounded when singing "Danny Boy" at home. Albert viewed the idea as a gift to the fans on this side of the Atlantic.

Albert was on good terms with Tom Diskin and the Colonel, to the point where he could arrange one-to-one meetings with Elvis, and hang out at Graceland with Vernon and Dee, so it's likely that his request was given proper consideration.

Re: Greensleeves

Tue Aug 28, 2012 4:01 am

phpBB [video]



by far and away the best version is by German beat group The Lords. Full of utter excitement, fabulous guitar work and a great beat!!

Very similar chord progression to "Runaway". One of my favourite 60s performances by any group!

Re: Greensleeves

Tue Aug 28, 2012 4:23 am

Swingin-Little-Guitar-Man wrote:
phpBB [video]



by far and away the best version is by German beat group The Lords. Full of utter excitement, fabulous guitar work and a great beat!!

Very similar chord progression to "Runaway". One of my favourite 60s performances by any group!

You can't "beat" those outfits...

Re: Greensleeves

Wed Aug 29, 2012 1:44 am

poormadpeter wrote:
JaneTLC wrote:I think you're both right.
'O Sole Mio and Torna a Surriento are operatic-type songs, but are mainly seen as traditional Neapolitan songs over here (Italy), and most people know the words. So I don't think folk music, whislt technically not exact, is actually a wrong definition of either.
Let's not forget Santa Lucia either, the only song Elvis recorded in Italian (accent well-exexcuted, by the way).

Anyway, Greenleeves: 'Elvis sings Henry VIII'. Love it.


yes, forgot that - although Santa Lucia is of unknown authorship from what I remember. It's generally thought now that Greensleeves wasn't composed by ol' Henry after all but about 50 or 60 years after he died.


Greensleeves reported written by Henry, probably not, imho.

Santa Lucia has an interesting wiki entry, plus lyrics and translation (Elvis only sang the first verse):

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Santa_Lucia

An Italian friend of mine still claims to have given Elvis the sheet music to Santa Lucia when he was nearing the end of his sojourn in Germany, and has written a book about it, saying Elvis gave him a pair of raybans in exchange for the sheet music.
He still has the raybans. No photographic evidence of the meeting nor other people alive who can corroborate the story, unfortunately.

Re: Greensleeves

Fri Aug 31, 2012 3:00 am

Swingin-Little-Guitar-Man wrote:
phpBB [video]



by far and away the best version is by German beat group The Lords. Full of utter excitement, fabulous guitar work and a great beat!!

Very similar chord progression to "Runaway". One of my favourite 60s performances by any group!

You are joking, right? :D

Re: Greensleeves

Fri Aug 31, 2012 3:06 am

JaneTLC wrote:
poormadpeter wrote:
JaneTLC wrote:I think you're both right.
'O Sole Mio and Torna a Surriento are operatic-type songs, but are mainly seen as traditional Neapolitan songs over here (Italy), and most people know the words. So I don't think folk music, whislt technically not exact, is actually a wrong definition of either.
Let's not forget Santa Lucia either, the only song Elvis recorded in Italian (accent well-exexcuted, by the way).

Anyway, Greenleeves: 'Elvis sings Henry VIII'. Love it.


yes, forgot that - although Santa Lucia is of unknown authorship from what I remember. It's generally thought now that Greensleeves wasn't composed by ol' Henry after all but about 50 or 60 years after he died.


Greensleeves reported written by Henry, probably not, imho.

Santa Lucia has an interesting wiki entry, plus lyrics and translation (Elvis only sang the first verse):

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Santa_Lucia

An Italian friend of mine still claims to have given Elvis the sheet music to Santa Lucia when he was nearing the end of his sojourn in Germany, and has written a book about it, saying Elvis gave him a pair of raybans in exchange for the sheet music.
He still has the raybans. No photographic evidence of the meeting nor other people alive who can corroborate the story, unfortunately.
Well, we will never know for sure who wrote the song but I like to think it was Henry VIII. You know just to make it more umm GREAT! 8)

Re: Greensleeves

Fri Aug 31, 2012 3:18 pm

ElvisLive3August1969 wrote:
Swingin-Little-Guitar-Man wrote:
phpBB [video]



by far and away the best version is by German beat group The Lords. Full of utter excitement, fabulous guitar work and a great beat!!

Very similar chord progression to "Runaway". One of my favourite 60s performances by any group!

You are joking, right? :D

No lol!

i genuinely LOVE the Lords and this is one of my favourites of theirs! Yeah - he was a poor singer but they had a damn good freakbeat sound.

Re: Greensleeves

Fri Aug 31, 2012 4:36 pm

midnightx wrote:A nice little ditty from Jeff Beck circa 1968. Later, apparently a favorite of Paul and Linda McCartney.

phpBB [video]



Not bad but I would prefer BlackmoreĀ“s little "ditty" instead...! :)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZTBZvtr- ... re=related

Sincerely MB280E

Re: Greensleeves

Fri Aug 31, 2012 8:33 pm

Swingin-Little-Guitar-Man wrote:i genuinely LOVE the Lords and this is one of my favourites of theirs! Yeah - he was a poor singer but they had a damn good freakbeat sound.

And great hats.

Re: Greensleeves

Tue Dec 04, 2012 10:52 pm

I was searching for this song again today, and saw this beautiful version. Very nice video!

phpBB [video]