Post here your Elvis' pictures

Re: Denver '76

Mon Aug 12, 2013 6:59 am

drjohncarpenter wrote:
eligain wrote:
drjohncarpenter wrote:Both John and Robert Kennedy's Catholic funerals were photographed AND televised. Did God bend the rules for them?

Please let us know exactly who you contact, and what was their connection to this event, as anonymous sources aren't worth too much. Digging up a photograph or two would certainly be definitive, though I suspect we will see nothing but more heresay on this subject.


You are talking about the President and his senator and presidential candidate brother! That is the most ridicules example I have ever heard. It has nothing to do with God's rules. It has to do with dignity and respect! Unfortunately, I have been to several Catholic funerals (many in this same church) and I have never seen anyone ever take a picture ever! There wasn't any photos of the funeral taken so no photos will be "dug up". Like has been said. Most in attendance didn't know Elvis was even there until after the fact. The person I talked to is Milli Zarlengo, a good friend of Jerry Kennedy and his family and a friend of my Aunt.. So not anonymous but still hearsay to you.

There are a lot of things we know and have heard about Elvis that can be classified as hearsay yet you and most others believe they are true. Just because one newspaper from nowhere near Denver said four gospel singers, it is taken as total fact yet sources who where actually there including actual principals are regarded as just hearsay.


The Kennedy examples were a simple and easy way to disprove your statement about such things. It was not at all "ridiculous," but rather quite appropriate. Furthermore, I've participated in Catholic funerals, and have seen photos taken before and after them.

The newspaper in question was running a United Press International story, it was not "one newspaper from nowhere near Denver," it ran all over the U.S.

It's a shame there are no photos to verify this sub-topic discussion about the great J.D. Sumner's whereabouts on this day.


Sorry but your examples are still totally ridicules. You didn't disprove a thing. First of all, unless you are Catholic, I bet I've been to a few more Catholic funerals than you have and I would wager you have never been to a funeral at Holy Family Church in Denver. There are no Catholic rules against taking pictures at a funeral, it just isn't done out of respect and decency. I just went to a funeral today and there were no pictures taken even with smart phones! Also of all the funerals I have been to that were non-Catholic, I can't recall anyone taking pictures at those either.

BTW, my Aunt's friend Milli who was at the funeral, knew that Elvis was going to be there since she was a family friend of Jerry's but she kept it to herself and didn't even tell my Aunt until after the funeral. She said Jerry told her to keep it a secret because Elvis wanted to pay his respects but he didn't was the funeral to be about him and turn into a circus.

Regarding the newspaper article, why don't you look up the Rocky Mountain New and Denver Post articles about the funeral. They might have said the same thing but at least they would be from the same city the incident took place in.

Re: Denver '76

Mon Aug 12, 2013 11:57 am

eligain wrote:You don't take photos in or at a Catholic funeral. I am going to try to contact a couple of people I know who were at the funeral. They are Elvis fans and know who JD was and wouldn't have mixed him up with Larry Strickland. They will know if JD was there. I remember Jerry Kennedy telling us that JD's bass rattled the rafters at the funeral.


drjohncarpenter wrote:Both John and Robert Kennedy's Catholic funerals were photographed AND televised. Did God bend the rules for them?

Please let us know exactly who you contact, and what was their connection to this event, as anonymous sources aren't worth too much. Digging up a photograph or two would certainly be definitive, though I suspect we will see nothing but more heresay on this subject.


eligain wrote:Sorry but your examples are still totally ridicules. You didn't disprove a thing. First of all, unless you are Catholic, I bet I've been to a few more Catholic funerals than you have and I would wager you have never been to a funeral at Holy Family Church in Denver. There are no Catholic rules against taking pictures at a funeral, it just isn't done out of respect and decency. I just went to a funeral today and there were no pictures taken even with smart phones! Also of all the funerals I have been to that were non-Catholic, I can't recall anyone taking pictures at those either.


It appears my input has shaped your perspective regarding Catholic funerals. Nice to see the progress!

Please find out if your "Aunt's friend Milli who was at the funeral" can turn up a photo of J.D. Sumner from this day.

Re: Denver '76

Mon Aug 12, 2013 2:31 pm

Please find out if your "Aunt's friend Milli who was at the funeral" can turn up a photo of J.D. Sumner from this day.


Again, you totally ignore the interview with JD Sumner, who clearly states he was present. Like Dolly Parton, is he "misremembering" another Denver funeral he attended with Elvis dressed in a police uniform?

Re: Denver '76

Mon Aug 12, 2013 8:05 pm

drjohncarpenter wrote:
eligain wrote:You don't take photos in or at a Catholic funeral. I am going to try to contact a couple of people I know who were at the funeral. They are Elvis fans and know who JD was and wouldn't have mixed him up with Larry Strickland. They will know if JD was there. I remember Jerry Kennedy telling us that JD's bass rattled the rafters at the funeral.


drjohncarpenter wrote:Both John and Robert Kennedy's Catholic funerals were photographed AND televised. Did God bend the rules for them?

Please let us know exactly who you contact, and what was their connection to this event, as anonymous sources aren't worth too much. Digging up a photograph or two would certainly be definitive, though I suspect we will see nothing but more heresay on this subject.


eligain wrote:Sorry but your examples are still totally ridicules. You didn't disprove a thing. First of all, unless you are Catholic, I bet I've been to a few more Catholic funerals than you have and I would wager you have never been to a funeral at Holy Family Church in Denver. There are no Catholic rules against taking pictures at a funeral, it just isn't done out of respect and decency. I just went to a funeral today and there were no pictures taken even with smart phones! Also of all the funerals I have been to that were non-Catholic, I can't recall anyone taking pictures at those either.


It appears my input has shaped your perspective regarding Catholic funerals. Nice to see the progress!

Please find out if your "Aunt's friend Milli who was at the funeral" can turn up a photo of J.D. Sumner from this day.


Sorry, that ain't gonna happen. She wasn't disrespectful enough to her friend to take a picture at his funeral. So for you, JD wasn't there and everything that Elvis did or that happened around him either didn't happen or is just hearsay if there isn't a picture or it wasn't reported in a newspaper.

Re: Denver '76

Mon Aug 12, 2013 10:02 pm

eligain wrote:
drjohncarpenter wrote:It appears my input has shaped your perspective regarding Catholic funerals. Nice to see the progress!

Please find out if your "Aunt's friend Milli who was at the funeral" can turn up a photo of J.D. Sumner from this day.


Sorry, that ain't gonna happen. She wasn't disrespectful enough to her friend to take a picture at his funeral. So for you, JD wasn't there and everything that Elvis did or that happened around him either didn't happen or is just hearsay if there isn't a picture or it wasn't reported in a newspaper.


That's too bad about no photos. By the way, yesterday I asked my former Catholic pastor if photos were "disrespectful," and he told me certainly not before or after a ceremony. So where you get your rigidity regarding this is a mystery to us all.

As for J.D. Sumner, my feeling is that, without photographs, we cannot confirm his presence in Denver that day. This is very different to what you write above, and I hope my restatement clears up your confusion.

Re: Denver '76

Mon Aug 12, 2013 10:22 pm

As for J.D. Sumner, my feeling is that, without photographs, we cannot confirm his presence in Denver that day. This is very different to what you write above, and I hope my restatement clears up your confusion.


Again, what about the interview with JD himself, where he says he was there? Are you ever going to address this, or just ignore it totally. It's just another example of you believing you know more than the person who was actually there, without ANY proof. Your newspaper article states 4 singers, not that they were 4 singers, one of whom definitely wasn't JD Sumner!!!

Re: Denver '76

Tue Aug 13, 2013 12:06 am

drjohncarpenter wrote:
eligain wrote:
drjohncarpenter wrote:It appears my input has shaped your perspective regarding Catholic funerals. Nice to see the progress!

Please find out if your "Aunt's friend Milli who was at the funeral" can turn up a photo of J.D. Sumner from this day.


Sorry, that ain't gonna happen. She wasn't disrespectful enough to her friend to take a picture at his funeral. So for you, JD wasn't there and everything that Elvis did or that happened around him either didn't happen or is just hearsay if there isn't a picture or it wasn't reported in a newspaper.


That's too bad about no photos. By the way, yesterday I asked my former Catholic pastor if photos were "disrespectful," and he told me certainly not before or after a ceremony. So where you get your rigidity regarding this is a mystery to us all.

As for J.D. Sumner, my feeling is that, without photographs, we cannot confirm his presence in Denver that day. This is very different to what you write above, and I hope my restatement clears up your confusion.


I have no confusion. People who I know and respect say JD was there. I always assumed JD was there given Jerry's comments to us about the funeral but it has never been a big deal to me whether he was there or not. I actually really never thought about it. Now you don't know these people (including Jerry Kennedy) so you have the right to not believe them. So like I said, for you JD wasn't there since there isn't going to be any pictures popping up of him there.

My so called "rigidity" concerning taking pictures at a funeral seems to only be a mystery to you. I bet the majority here would feel it would be in bad taste for one of the mourners to start snapping pictures before, during or after a service. That is why again, your examples of JFK and RFK's funerals were ridicules. Those were public funerals of public figures and the photos and video were taken by the press and official photographers. Eugene Kennedy's funeral was a private funeral of a private citizen. Had the press knew Elvis was there, you bet they would have been outside taking pictures as people came and went and you would have had your "proof" but they certainly wouldn't have been allowed inside. This has nothing to do with rigidity, it has to do with decency.

It is like James Gandolfini's recent funeral. The press was there taking pictures of the mourners and celebrities coming to the church and leaving but they weren't allowed inside not because of some rigid church rule but because the family wanted it private out of respect. I'm sure Jerry Kennedy's family wouldn't have been too happy with one of the mourners snapping pictures of Elvis and the Stamps even if it was before or after the service.

Re: Denver '76

Tue Aug 13, 2013 4:18 am

eligain wrote:I have no confusion. People who I know and respect say JD was there. I always assumed JD was there given Jerry's comments to us about the funeral but it has never been a big deal to me whether he was there or not. I actually really never thought about it. Now you don't know these people (including Jerry Kennedy) so you have the right to not believe them. So like I said, for you JD wasn't there since there isn't going to be any pictures popping up of him there.

My so called "rigidity" concerning taking pictures at a funeral seems to only be a mystery to you. I bet the majority here would feel it would be in bad taste for one of the mourners to start snapping pictures before, during or after a service. That is why again, your examples of JFK and RFK's funerals were ridicules. Those were public funerals of public figures and the photos and video were taken by the press and official photographers. Eugene Kennedy's funeral was a private funeral of a private citizen. Had the press knew Elvis was there, you bet they would have been outside taking pictures as people came and went and you would have had your "proof" but they certainly wouldn't have been allowed inside. This has nothing to do with rigidity, it has to do with decency.


So my former Catholic church pastor is an indecent man? Certainly not. Was Detective Eugene Kennedy a public servant? Yes, he was. We can move on from this "ridicules" sub-topic, as my point has been well-proven here, as much as you hate to admit it.

As for Captain Jerry Kennedy, he recalls the January 1976 funeral in a Denver book you cite on another topic, and yet he makes no mention of J.D. Sumner:

http://books.google.com/books?id=eiGZHVqzUSEC&pg=PA107

How can this be? Sumner shook the building's rafters with his voice, right?

Unless we see some photographs, or get a declaration from Stamps bass singer Larry Strickland, one cannot state with certainty Sumner was there.

Re: Denver '76

Tue Aug 13, 2013 5:55 am

drjohncarpenter wrote:
eligain wrote:I have no confusion. People who I know and respect say JD was there. I always assumed JD was there given Jerry's comments to us about the funeral but it has never been a big deal to me whether he was there or not. I actually really never thought about it. Now you don't know these people (including Jerry Kennedy) so you have the right to not believe them. So like I said, for you JD wasn't there since there isn't going to be any pictures popping up of him there.

My so called "rigidity" concerning taking pictures at a funeral seems to only be a mystery to you. I bet the majority here would feel it would be in bad taste for one of the mourners to start snapping pictures before, during or after a service. That is why again, your examples of JFK and RFK's funerals were ridicules. Those were public funerals of public figures and the photos and video were taken by the press and official photographers. Eugene Kennedy's funeral was a private funeral of a private citizen. Had the press knew Elvis was there, you bet they would have been outside taking pictures as people came and went and you would have had your "proof" but they certainly wouldn't have been allowed inside. This has nothing to do with rigidity, it has to do with decency.


So my former Catholic church pastor is an indecent man? Certainly not. Was Detective Eugene Kennedy a public servant? Yes, he was. We can move on from this "ridicules" sub-topic, as my point has been well-proven here, as much as you hate to admit it.

As for Captain Jerry Kennedy, he recalls the January 1976 funeral in a Denver book you cite on another topic, and yet he makes no mention of J.D. Sumner:

http://books.google.com/books?id=eiGZHVqzUSEC&pg=PA107

How can this be? Sumner shook the building's rafters with his voice, right?

Unless we see some photographs, or get a declaration from Stamps bass singer Larry Strickland, one cannot state with certainty Sumner was there.


He may have been a public servant but he wasn't a public figure, (big difference). People generally didn't know who he was. A dog catcher is a public servant. It still was a private funeral not a state funeral. Your point hasn't been proven at all. The only reason it made the news is because Elvis was there. It would have been bad taste for any of the mourners to start snapping pictures of Elvis or JD before, during or after the service at the church or cemetery. It would be really disrespectful to take pictures of the body or the family as well. It isn't a wedding. It's a tragic moment. When someone who is young and healthy takes their own life, it's tragic.

So why don't you contact Larry Strickland and ask him?

BTW, St. Rocco's Feast is this weekend and I usually see Jerry Kennedy there and I usually talk to him so if I get a chance I will ask him if JD was at the funeral. :wink:
Last edited by eligain on Tue Aug 13, 2013 10:15 am, edited 1 time in total.

Re: Denver '76

Tue Aug 13, 2013 6:16 am

eligain wrote:BTW, St. Rocco's Feast is this weekend and I usually see Jerry Kennedy there and I usually talk to him so if I get a chance I will ask him if JD was at the funeral.


I am sure he will be thrilled to receive your query. Let him know we said hello.

Re: Denver '76

Tue Aug 13, 2013 7:25 am

This thread is nuts. I'm Catholic. I've been to many funerals. I've never taken a photo. I've never seen anyone take a photo at a Catholic funeral. Or any other funeral for that matter. Was JD there? I don't know. He said he was. Why would he lie?

Re: Denver '76

Tue Aug 13, 2013 8:05 am

JD shared an anecdote about being there, and others have said he was there. That's solid enough evidence to conclude that he did attend. It's not like he had anything to gain by pretending to be there if he wasn't. He wasn't positioning himself at an event of major historical importance.


There are countless accepted stories about Elvis' life that are not accompanied by photographic proof. We'll have to rewrite the history books if that's the only standard by which facts can be verified.

Re: Denver '76

Tue Aug 13, 2013 1:07 pm

Im not catholic.However I did attend a private catholic school for a couple of years.I attended several funerals while there.It was mandatory.You never saw a photo taken.I've attended other catholic funeral services as an adult. You never see a photo taken.The funeral mass is not disturbed by picture taking.At least the ones I have been present at.I was brought up southern Baptist.It's a different story there.People take all the pictures they want.Nothing off limits.It would be unusual not to see photo's being taken.

Re: Denver '76

Tue Aug 13, 2013 1:28 pm

get a declaration from Stamps bass singer Larry Strickland, one cannot state with certainty Sumner was there


But we already have a declaration from JD Sumner you seem to dismiss, or refuse to even acknowledge, that says he was there, and explains the whearabouts of Larry Strickland!!!

Just once, how about you just say "you know what guys, I learned something new. It seems JD was there after all. Nice work." It would make people think so much more highly of you.

Re: Denver '76

Tue Aug 13, 2013 9:51 pm

jak wrote:Im not catholic.However I did attend a private catholic school for a couple of years.I attended several funerals while there.It was mandatory.You never saw a photo taken.I've attended other catholic funeral services as an adult. You never see a photo taken.The funeral mass is not disturbed by picture taking.At least the ones I have been present at.I was brought up southern Baptist.It's a different story there.People take all the pictures they want.Nothing off limits.It would be unusual not to see photo's being taken.


At my mother's Catholic funeral we took some photos after the mass.

Re: Denver '76

Tue Aug 13, 2013 11:53 pm

drjohncarpenter wrote:At my mother's Catholic funeral we took some photos after the mass.

that´s the proof: j.d. wasn´t there.
i take the doc´s word over j.d.´s.
why?
because the doc´s a generally accepted elvis scholar. j.d. wasn´t, he was just his bass singer.
so he must have misremembered.

Re: Denver '76

Wed Aug 14, 2013 12:08 am

I've spoken to Bill Baize who states: "I believe that it was Ed Hill, Ed Enoch, Larry Strickland and myself who went there to do that funeral."

Sorry, but as far as Bill recollects, JD wasn't there.

Re: Denver '76

Wed Aug 14, 2013 12:30 am

The question is, whose memory is likely to be sharper? Thirty-seven years after the event, Bill Baize is recalling whether someone else was there, and probably around 15 years after the event JD was recalling whether he himself was there. On balance, you'd expect the latter to be more accurate, particularly as he goes into significant detail and the question is about his own attendance.

Let's be blunt though, no one would actually misremember whether or not they attended the funeral of a policeman in Denver, so if JD said he was there and he wasn't, he was lying. Just seems that if he was going to lie, he'd choose something a little more interesting/entertaining than that.

Re: Denver '76

Wed Aug 14, 2013 12:44 am

Update from Mr Baize: "I forgot to include J.D. Sumner in the people that sang there. He was also a part of this by singing with the rest of us."

Just when you thought J.D. was out, Bill pulls him back in...

Re: Denver '76

Wed Aug 14, 2013 12:48 am

TJ wrote:The question is, whose memory is likely to be sharper? Thirty-seven years after the event, Bill Baize is recalling whether someone else was there, and probably around 15 years after the event JD was recalling whether he himself was there. On balance, you'd expect the latter to be more accurate, particularly as he goes into significant detail.

Let's be blunt though, no one would actually misremember whether or not they attended the funeral of a policeman in Denver, so if JD said he was there and he wasn't, he was lying. Just seems that if he was going to lie, he'd choose something a little more interesting/entertaining than that.


I agree with what you are saying, it makes perfect sense given the information gathered by several reliable members of this board!

The question I have to ask however, why is it that everyone believes they have to justify their beliefs to one individual on this board? For heavens sake most people on this board are reasonable and if you have come to a consensus and the information is fairly solid then why kick yourselves in the head to try to change one individual persons point of view.

As for the individual, no one questions your knowledge, no one questions the value you add to the board, so why oh why do you wish to piss away your kudos by being boorish?

Re: Denver '76

Fri Aug 16, 2013 4:57 am

paulsweeney wrote:This thread is nuts. I'm Catholic. I've been to many funerals. I've never taken a photo. I've never seen anyone take a photo at a Catholic funeral. Or any other funeral for that matter. Was JD there? I don't know. He said he was. Why would he lie?


Good to see someone has some sense here.

Re: Denver '76

Fri Aug 16, 2013 5:25 am

Garfield wrote:I've spoken to Bill Baize who states: "I believe that it was Ed Hill, Ed Enoch, Larry Strickland and myself who went there to do that funeral."

Sorry, but as far as Bill recollects, JD wasn't there.


Good to see someone has some sense here.

Re: Denver '76

Fri Aug 16, 2013 7:33 am

drjohncarpenter wrote:
Garfield wrote:I've spoken to Bill Baize who states: "I believe that it was Ed Hill, Ed Enoch, Larry Strickland and myself who went there to do that funeral."

Sorry, but as far as Bill recollects, JD wasn't there.


Good to see someone has some sense here.


Garfield wrote":

Update from Mr Baize: "I forgot to include J.D. Sumner in the people that sang there. He was also a part of this by singing with the rest of us."

Just when you thought J.D. was out, Bill pulls him back in...

Re: Denver '76

Fri Aug 16, 2013 8:07 am

There were only 4 singers noted at the funeral. Maybe Baize didn't make it.

Re: Denver '76

Fri Aug 16, 2013 8:17 am

If JD said he was there, I believe him. Why do these discussions always turn so contentious?