Post here your Elvis' pictures

Re: 50s where and when

Thu Jan 03, 2008 7:34 pm

Hi Brian,

the whole outfit inclusively the shoes (from the second picture) look very much like the ones he wore in Shreveport, LA, August 13, 1955. You’ll find this picture on page 210 of the book “The Rise Of Elvis Presley, Vol.II”. Before and after this performance Elvis toured through TEXAS.

Mississippi

Re: 50s where and when

Thu Jan 03, 2008 7:53 pm

You're absolutely right Mississippi. I have all my Hayride in a separate folder and didn't think of looking in there.

Elvis did wear these light-coloured (pink, orchid) a lot during the fall of 55 but I don't think he did in 56. Or maybe I just haven't spotted the pics yet.

The pic would have to be a bit later at least as Elvis has carved a bit off the leather cover and DJ has his new calf-skin drums.

Sincerely
Brian
http://www.brian56.dk

Re: 50s where and when

Thu Jan 03, 2008 8:25 pm

bripet56 wrote:The pic would have to be a bit later at least as Elvis has carved a bit off the leather cover and DJ has his new calf-skin drums.


Below some dates of DJ with and without his calf-skin drums

Aug 25th: Sports Centre, Austin Texas -> without calfskin drum
Sept 2nd : Municipal Auditorium, Texarcana Arkansas -> with calf-skin drum

So probably DJ got his new calf skin drum somewhere between Aug 26 - Sept 2.

Re: 50s where and when

Thu Jan 03, 2008 8:30 pm

Yeah E-Cat, I mentioned that on page one in this discussion :lol: :lol: But that's all right, now we've made this clear for all who missed out the first time :D

Sincerely
Brian
http://www.brian56.dk

Re: 50s where and when

Thu Jan 03, 2008 8:40 pm

So let's combine some logic thinking here:

If the pic must be from after August (because of the leather guitar cover) and taken into account that Elvis had that Tony Curtis perm in Sept / Oct'55, does it not make sense to assume that the picture must then be from after (late) Oct'55 ...

Re: 50s where and when

Thu Jan 03, 2008 8:51 pm

E-Cat wrote:
bripet56 wrote:The pic would have to be a bit later at least as Elvis has carved a bit off the leather cover and DJ has his new calf-skin drums.


Below some dates of DJ with and without his calf-skin drums

Aug 25th: Sports Centre, Austin Texas -> without calfskin drum
Sept 2nd : Municipal Auditorium, Texarcana Arkansas -> with calf-skin drum

So probably DJ got his new calf skin drum somewhere between Aug 26 - Sept 2.


I've never seen a picture of that set without the Calfskin head. He's pictured at times playing other sets, like a White Mother of Pearl set but they weren't his. He's never owned a WMP set and that comes straight from him. I don't think you can use the drumset in this equation very accurately unless we go by the floor tom which was stolen and eventually replaced with a larger one. Unfortunately he didn't always use it and I don't know when it was stolen.

Re: 50s where and when

Thu Jan 03, 2008 9:42 pm

JamesVRoy wrote:
I've never seen a picture of that set without the Calfskin head. He's pictured at times playing other sets, like a White Mother of Pearl set but they weren't his. He's never owned a WMP set and that comes straight from him. I don't think you can use the drumset in this equation very accurately unless we go by the floor tom which was stolen and eventually replaced with a larger one. Unfortunately he didn't always use it and I don't know when it was stolen.


Well James, I'm no expert on drums but I know that on every pic we have showing the drumset prior to August 26, 1955 he's using a WMP as you call it and on every pic from September 2 onwards he's using the one with calf skin.
Whether the WMP belonged to him or not I think this fact is very useful in dating pics.

I have read somewhere that he bought this new set of drums in Texas somewhere during late August 55. I think he visited his aunt there but not sure.

Sincerely
Brian
http://www.brian56.dk

Re: 50s where and when

Thu Jan 03, 2008 9:58 pm

bripet56 wrote:JamesVRoy wrote:
I've never seen a picture of that set without the Calfskin head. He's pictured at times playing other sets, like a White Mother of Pearl set but they weren't his. He's never owned a WMP set and that comes straight from him. I don't think you can use the drumset in this equation very accurately unless we go by the floor tom which was stolen and eventually replaced with a larger one. Unfortunately he didn't always use it and I don't know when it was stolen.


Well James, I'm no expert on drums but I know that on every pic we have showing the drumset prior to August 26, 1955 he's using a WMP as you call it and on every pic from September 2 onwards he's using the one with calf skin.
Whether the WMP belonged to him or not I think this fact is very useful in dating pics.

I have read somewhere that he bought this new set of drums in Texas somewhere during late August 55. I think he visited his aunt there but not sure.


That may be. I haven't enough known pictures of him with the Gretsch set (calfskin) to know what date is the earliest. I'll trust your judgement on that, but I've asked him about the WMP set before and as I said he never owned them. He bought the Gretsch set in Houston like I recently mentioned "somewhere" here.
All I have on them is here http://www.scottymoore.net/gretschdrums.html
I have no faith in the dates mentioned on the page but they're from them and I can't otherwise say

Here's the story Herb tells:
Herb has one recollection about his early career as a music dealer that few can match. Early in 1954, a friend told him about a young singer who was performing in the area and causing quite a stir. His name was Elvis Presley. "I thought Elvis was just another country singer," says Herb. "But one day, a few months later, a pink Cadillac pulled up in front of my drum shop. Elvis and his drummer, D.J. Fontana, came in to buy a drumset. They didn't like any that I had on display, but they did like my personal set of Gretsch drums... which happened to have a calfskin front head on the bass drum with the hair still on. So, I sold them that set, and didn't think any more about it." He continues, "A few months later, I saw a write-up in Life Magazine about Elvis' appearance on the Ed Sullivan Show and there was this two page photo showing Elvis, with D.J. playing my set of drums! By then Elvis was a big star-and maybe my drums helped him just a little bit! Oh, and D.J. still has that set of drums today!"


He used to tell it that when they had decided on Herb's set he wouldn't sell and then Elvis rolled out 5 $100 bills. He had me ask Scotty if he had been there that day and Scotty said "No way", Elvis never bought any of their instruments and in those days none of them had 2 dimes to rub together let alone $500

Re: 50s where and when

Thu Jan 03, 2008 11:08 pm

Well James, Herb's story doesn't fit in at all, but you probably noticed that already. Elvis causing a stir in early 54 (when he was 3-4 months away of recording his first SUN record), then he shows up a "few months later" in his pink Cadillac (which he got Feb/Mar 55) and then another few months later he was on the Ed Sullivan SHow.

IF DJ got his Gretsch-drumset in 1954 or early 55 it's strange that he never used it on tour untill Sep 55.

My guess is he bought it after (or during) the August 55 tour of Texas. At least all pics (that I know of) would confirm this.

Sincerely
Brian
http://www.brian56.dk

Re: 50s where and when

Thu Jan 03, 2008 11:17 pm

bripet56 wrote:Well James, Herb's story doesn't fit in at all, but you probably noticed that already. Elvis causing a stir in early 54 (when he was 3-4 months away of recording his first SUN record), then he shows up a "few months later" in his pink Cadillac (which he got Feb/Mar 55) and then another few months later he was on the Ed Sullivan SHow.

IF DJ got his Gretsch-drumset in 1954 or early 55 it's strange that he never used it on tour untill Sep 55.

My guess is he bought it after (or during) the August 55 tour of Texas. At least all pics (that I know of) would confirm this.

Sincerely
Brian
http://www.brian56.dk


Right, like I said its suspect but lacking documented proof its their word against mine. I was more interested in what they were when I wrote it and where they were from than when they were actually used. He reputedly played with them on the Hayride early on too but behind the curtain so there's no telling what set he used then either.
What's your earliest picture with and without them?

Re: 50s where and when

Thu Jan 03, 2008 11:31 pm

JamesVRoy wrote:
What's your earliest picture with and without them?


Well, if you mean the Gretsch drum-set then the earliest is from September 2, 1955 in Texarkana.
The latest I have using the WMP-set is from August 25, 1955 in Austin.

Let me know if you meant something else with above question.

Sincerely
Brian
http://www.brian56.dk

Re: 50s where and when

Thu Jan 03, 2008 11:47 pm

I meant the earliest with both/either, but that suffices.
So you don't see the Gretsch set before September (that we know of).

How many more earlier pix/dates do we know of by pictures that DJ is actually playing or visible?

The last time before September they were in Houston (performing) was August 7

Re: 50s where and when

Fri Jan 04, 2008 12:04 am

Just did a quick check and I'd say about 10 times prior to August 25 that we see DJ on stage with the WMP drums. Not many but then again he didn't tour extensively with Elvis untill August 55.

Are you 100% he bought the Gretsch in Houston?? Didn't his aunt live in San Antonio?? I seem to recall that he bought the drums when he visited his aunt. But I could be wrong. The memory, you know.

Sincerely
Brian
http://www.brian56.dk

Re: 50s where and when

Fri Jan 04, 2008 12:13 am

I'm only 100% sure of what they told me (him and Herb). Sid Lapworth from Houck's told me that he he sold DJ the calf skin head for the Gretsch set and where they were made, along with some gretsch parts but DJ denies this. Sid I found to be fairly accurate in most of his recollections and only off in a few dates but DJ has the drums and played them and has a dealer that corroborates. Officialy I have to go with that.

This may be a dumb question and I'm not implying that you don't know but just for the record you understand that the WMP we are talking about is the finish, right? If you have pictures of him with the copper Gretsch set and no calfskin then there are new rules.

At best from the drumset then we can for the moment assume that the pictures in question can't be older than September of 55 unless of course they are in fact older and then we now have a picture or the set earlier than September 2.

Re: 50s where and when

Fri Jan 04, 2008 12:46 am

The question was not dumb at all James as I do not know much about drums. I never thought of the Gretsch without the calf-skin but I just re-checked and none of the ones prior to Sep 2 are of the copper-coloured Gretsch.

Sincerely
Brian
http://www.brian56.dk

Re: 50s where and when

Fri Jan 04, 2008 12:55 am

James what you banging on about, you got me beat. You keep trying to drum this into me, I don't think I can stick it. What symbol should I be looking for?

Did i get them all?

I think i got them all.

Re: 50s where and when

Fri Jan 04, 2008 1:07 am

bripet56 wrote:Yeah Doc, I know what you mean with the Heartbreak Hotel movements but this pic has a similar (although not exact) movement and it's from Sep 55.

Yeah, I reviewed Rockin' Across Texas (FTD) last night, searching for clues. It's not quite the same as the above image, though.

One of the things that must be held in strong view is the "Elvis Presley Show" behind the musicians. That's a headliner affectation, and nowhere do we see this before 1956. If you look at posters, adverts and ticket stubs, this also holds true. It is a strong indicator of where these images belong, chronologically.

Re: 50s where and when

Fri Jan 04, 2008 1:14 am

and the font used Doc, we've seen this before and I don't know where.

Was it still being used at the back of the stage in the footage from Tupelo 57?

Re: 50s where and when

Fri Jan 04, 2008 1:20 am

At Tupelo in 1957, the "Jailhouse Rock" banner was in place behind DJ's kit, but the script for "Elvis" and "Presley" hanging to the left and right of DJ are an EXACT match.

Nice work -- and this seems to prove this was something owned and kept by Boxcar Enterprises, Presley's management. It wouldn't have gone up behind Elvis in 1955, Parker was still trying to get Hank Snow, Bob Neal and SUN Records out the door.

Re: 50s where and when

Fri Jan 04, 2008 2:08 am

Right, and Neal didn't go until March 56 officially, so it looks like April 56 onwards, would that be a fair assumption (based on what we have so far) ?

Re: 50s where and when

Sat Jan 05, 2008 8:57 am

drjohncarpenter wrote:At Tupelo in 1957, the "Jailhouse Rock" banner was in place behind DJ's kit, but the script for "Elvis" and "Presley" hanging to the left and right of DJ are an EXACT match.

Nice work -- and this seems to prove this was something owned and kept by Boxcar Enterprises, Presley's management. It wouldn't have gone up behind Elvis in 1955, Parker was still trying to get Hank Snow, Bob Neal and SUN Records out the door.


And here is a screen shot of Elvis performing at Tupelo in September '57, the selfsame "Elvis" and "Presley" are hanging on either side of D.J.:


Image


---

The one and only Ger Rijff cites the possibility that the original images posted had the "Elvis" and "Presley" added to the photos after the fact -- but why would this have been done?

And how to explain the Tupelo '57 backdrop?

Any thoughts?

Re: 50s where and when

Sat Jan 05, 2008 1:27 pm

Hey Doc, you need glasses my friend :lol: :lol:
The font in the 57 Tupelo shot is NOT an EXACT match. Just look at the "L" in Elvis and the "P" in Presley. in the Tupelo shot the L has a "straight" backside and the P has a "straight frontside as opposed to the 55-56 shopts where those are very curved. Not the same font at all.

Ger Rijff could very well be right you know. IF this was a banner Elvis and his gang used for the shows we would have seen it in more pics. However, it could also be that the banner was made up by locals for this one show. Maybe a return visit to Seymour in late 55 or somewhere else.

The reason Ger could very well be right is that IF it was an ordinary banner we would see the edges of it. We don't. We only see the letters.
OK, the letters could have be sewed onto the curtain but in that case they would not have been so "straight" they would have followed the curves of the curtain. They don't.

So, they could have been hanging down in separate wires but I don't believe so.

So maybe we should just forget about the "Elvis Presley SHOW" and put more notice to Elvis and his Gang. My guess is still late 1955 due to Elvis' clothing. Or maybe the Hayride tour of late August 55. Guitar, clothing, shoes and no rings. All fits in there perfectly.

Sincerely
Brian
http://www.brian56.dk

Re: 50s where and when

Sat Jan 05, 2008 2:07 pm

Does the apparently missing tail on the "y" in "Presley" give us a clue to support either of the two theories?

Re: 50s where and when

Sat Jan 05, 2008 3:42 pm

Brian, the stitching on the letters, before you mentioned it I thought I'd detected it in the large pic originally.

I was looking to see if those "drapes" were something that had to be carted around as part of the props to shows, or whether they were seperate and just hanged down from whatever they could attach it to and that it was coincidence that that materail was th esame as th efdrapes, but they looked stitched to the drapes to me.

Re: 50s where and when

Sun Jan 06, 2008 10:03 am

bripet56 wrote:Hey Doc, you need glasses my friend :lol: :lol:
The font in the 57 Tupelo shot is NOT an EXACT match. Just look at the "L" in Elvis and the "P" in Presley. in the Tupelo shot the L has a "straight" backside and the P has a "straight frontside as opposed to the 55-56 shopts where those are very curved. Not the same font at all.

Do I?

If you carefully review the existing film footage of Tupelo '57, you will owe me an apology, as they are the same. Any difference in appearance -- as in my single screen shot -- is likely due to the Tupelo show being in an outdoor environment.

IF the circa 1956 photos truly include faked lettering, this implies the person had access to the Tupelo newsreels to study the backdrop prior to the 1996 publication of The King On The Road, if not earlier.

It also means they chose to work in painstaking detail to add them to two separate photos, taken from different angles and from different locations.

None of that seems very likely at all.

I think I've added more than anyone to this topic, it's time for someone else's observations to go through the ringer.