Post here your Elvis' pictures

Re: Jacksonville 55

Thu Nov 01, 2007 8:51 pm

bripet56 wrote:JamesVRoy wrote:
So far nothing conclusive, even the Billboard from August only says "recently".
Unfortunately I can't tell anything from the hair in any pictures.


"Recently" would not refer to a show three months earlier when Elvis had just played Jacksonville only two week prior.

And you can't tell anything from the hair?? I'd say you can't get much closer to the same hair than in these two photos although not from the exact same angle.
Image

I don't think we'll be able to come up with any better proof for the Jacksonville-riot than the Billboard clipping. But I'd of course love to see ANY kind of evidence pertaining to any of the shows back in 1955.

Sincerely
Brian
http://www.brian56.dk


They sure look dead on there (and he doesn't look like he's holding a camera or a leather football helmet :D ). I'm inlcined to agree with you about the date of the photos anyway for now.
Right, about the "recently" being a logical assumption but still an assumption since there is no date. At best it implies that a riot happened in July at least but doesn't mean it didn't happen in May also.

Is Mae still alive? I remeber someone contacting me recently for Scotty about doing a documentary on her.
Nevermind, no, she died in 97
Last edited by JamesVRoy on Thu Nov 01, 2007 9:14 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Re: Jacksonville 55

Thu Nov 01, 2007 9:13 pm

JamesVRoy wrote:
OK, here's something else. The Davis sisters and Carters were definitely on the May shows. Here's an early page I did from a fan that saw Elvis in 55 in Asheville. I had to actually help her write the letter to get details and dates straight which isn't really important but it does show an ad for the May 17th show.
http://scottymoore.net/asheville55.html

What happened to the May 16 picture Brian, it doesn't show anymore?


Not sure you saw this in my prior post before you responded Brian.

Re: Jacksonville 55

Thu Nov 01, 2007 10:30 pm

No James, I didn't see your post about the Asheville show prior to posting my own but I'm quite familiar with the Davis Sisters and Carters being on the May tour. I have ads for almost every show in 55. That they were part of the May tour doesn't prove that the reported riot took place in May nor does it proove that the photo is from May just because Elvis doesn't wear a shirt.

I never said there was no riot in May. If you check my posts again I've said a couple of times that there could very well have been a riot in May. However, we have no proof at all (1955 proof) for such a riot. We have, however, what I believe is proof for the July riot.

Here's another clipping from the August 13, 1955 issue of Billboard.
Kenny Wilder scribbles from Orlando, Fla.: "The Andy Griffith show was here for two days recently and scored a great hit, with both nights a sellout. As usual Elvis Presley stole the show, along with Ferlin Huskey. It looks as tho the two will return here soon,"


I just checked all my Billboard clippings and whenever there was a mention of "recently" and I was able to trace it backwards the longest span was 6 weeks after the incident. Most incidents happened between 7 days and 4 weeks prior to the report in Billboard. I know that this is no 100% proof but it does tell us that a three month span most likely is out of question.

I'm not sure what you mean about the May 16 photo not showing James. I just checked and it shows now. Sometimes a little box with a red x has appeared lately instead of the photo but next time the photo is there. Don't know why this happens.

But I'm glad you're tending to believe that the photos are from the July gig rather than the May. By the way, Elvis wore that same (or very similar) shirt on the Memphis show on August 5.

Sincerely
Brian
http://www.brian56.dk

Re: Jacksonville 55

Thu Nov 01, 2007 10:47 pm

bripet56 wrote:I never said there was no riot in May. If you check my posts again I've said a couple of times that there could very well have been a riot in May. However, we have no proof at all (1955 proof) for such a riot. We have, however, what I believe is proof for the July riot.


Didn't mean to imply that you did Brian. I'm trying to determine Mae's place in time based on her recollections of it. This was inspired by my thinking the shirt he wore in the "July" photograph might be the one she said was ripped off in a riot based its description in the presence of the Carters and Davis' since we (or at least I) were trying to determine why they attribute the May show to the riot in DAY by DAY and Last Train to Memphis. If she is correct in that she was present, and if they the Davis and or Carters were not in July then the only time they could all have been together would have to be at the May show which would imply a riot even though we haven't seen "any 55 proof of it"

This thread has raised a few questions beyond the date of the photo.

Do you have a clipping for Florida shows in July that include the Davis and Carters?

bripet56 wrote:I'm not sure what you mean about the May 16 photo not showing James. I just checked and it shows now. Sometimes a little box with a red x has appeared lately instead of the photo but next time the photo is there. Don't know why this happens.

But I'm glad you're tending to believe that the photos are from the July gig rather than the May. By the way, Elvis wore that same (or very similar) shirt on the Memphis show on August 5.


It came up the first time you posted it and i looked at it but it hasn't displayed for me since. If I try to go to the actual link posted it comes up with nothing. Don't know why either.

Nevermind, its working again.
Last edited by JamesVRoy on Thu Nov 01, 2007 10:58 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Re: Jacksonville 55

Thu Nov 01, 2007 10:55 pm

bripet56 wrote:But I'm glad you're tending to believe that the photos are from the July gig rather than the May. By the way, Elvis wore that same (or very similar) shirt on the Memphis show on August 5.


Hmm, it does look like the same shirt doesn't it. So either he had two and they're not the same shirt or they are the same and the photo in "July" with the shirt on was taken after the riot.
Does anyone have any aspirin?

Re: Jacksonville 55

Thu Nov 01, 2007 11:24 pm

JamesVRoy wrote

Does anyone have any aspirin?


LOL!!

No but this thread's getting more and more Fascinating as time goes on.

Re: Jacksonville 55

Fri Nov 02, 2007 12:03 am

bripet56 wrote:"Recently" would not refer to a show three months earlier when Elvis had just played Jacksonville only two week prior.

Why not? Some Billboard articles were submitted long before publication date, so your assumption cannot be considered fully accurate. Thus, "recently" could imply two weeks earlier or ten weeks earlier.

It seems beyond reproach, though, that something out of the ordinary occurred in May. Thanks for the Guralnick quotes, LD.

I'll do some more research and get back to y'all.

Re: Jacksonville 55

Fri Nov 02, 2007 12:30 am

JamesVRoy wrote:
Do you have a clipping for Florida shows in July that include the Davis and Carters?

Yes James, I do have ads for the July shows, and no, the Davis and Carters did not appear on those shows.

Doc wrote:
Some Billboard articles were submitted long before publication date, so your assumption cannot be considered fully accurate. Thus, "recently" could imply two weeks earlier or ten weeks earlier.


Yes Doc, I know that some articles were submitted long before publication date but since the Billboard was a weekly magazine I find it hard (not impossible) to believe that an article would refer to an incident 3 months earlier. As I wrote in an earlier post the longest span I could find was 6 weeks while the most of them referred to incidents 7 days to 4 weeks earlier.

Sincerely
Brian
http://www.brian56.dk

Re: Jacksonville 55

Fri Nov 02, 2007 12:49 am

James .. have you had a word with Scotty about this?

Re: Jacksonville 55

Fri Nov 02, 2007 12:53 am

Little Darlin wrote:James .. have you had a word with Scotty about this?


No, he wouldn't remember. Those times were a blur. He might remember it happening but not particularly when or where. It was basically drive, play, eat and drive some more. Besides, while that was going on he'd be taking care of the gear.

Re: Jacksonville 55

Fri Nov 02, 2007 12:56 am

JamesVRoy wrote:
Little Darlin wrote:James .. have you had a word with Scotty about this?


No, he wouldn't remember. Those times were a blur. He might remember it happening but not particularly when or where. It was basically drive, play, eat and drive some more. Besides, while that was going on he'd be taking care of the gear.


Shame .. never mind. We could do with a darn good Researcher on Board hey James :wink:

Re: Jacksonville 55

Fri Nov 02, 2007 12:59 am

Image

Just look at the differences in the two pics.

In one the guy is younger than the other.

The nose, eyes, ears and mouth are different in the 2nd one.

Obviously two different guys with a similar haircut !

Re: Jacksonville 55

Fri Nov 02, 2007 4:27 am

drjohncarpenter wrote:James, that image is reversed -- but you are correct about the error on AEK.

These should all be credited to Jacksonville, FL - Friday, May 13, 1955 ->

Image



Is the pic below from the same period ? If so - can we date this picture :

Image

bripet56 wrote:I'm sorry guys but I don't believe these photos are from May 1955.

If you look at the photo below you'll see that the hair fits the Tampa-hair from July 31, 1955.

Image


I believe this pic is also from Tampa:

Image

BTW: IIRC the following pciture with Mae Axton and Faron Young was also taken in May 55 ?

Image

Re: Jacksonville 55

Fri Nov 02, 2007 5:44 am

Cool, that July pic you posted e-cat must be in the armory moments after/before the one Brian posted. cool pic too with Mae, you're sure that's Mae, right? He looks like he's wearing a tuxedo shirt. Where's the pic from?

Here's another with Mae
Image

Brian, just looking through th atomic powered singer book. the pic on page 25 of elvis with his crown Vic i believe was taken next to these doors
Image

Re: Jacksonville 55

Fri Nov 02, 2007 3:12 pm

ColinB wrote:
Just look at the differences in the two pics.
In one the guy is younger than the other.
The nose, eyes, ears and mouth are different in the 2nd one.
Obviously two different guys with a similar haircut !


Yes, of course the guy in one of the pics is younger than the other as the photos are two days apart :lol: :lol:

Seems like you've snowed in on the plastic-surgery a lot lately as you can't watch two photos of Elvis without mentioning this :lol:

I'm not sure whether to take you serious on this or not :?

Sincerely
Brian
http://www.brian56.dk

Re: Jacksonville 55

Fri Nov 02, 2007 3:29 pm

E-Cat, the photo of Elvis seated with a lady is supposed to be from early May 1955 and the shirt (which is not the same as the one in the photo we discuss) fits in perfectly with that timeframe.

And yes, the photo of Elvis standing with his guitar is of course from Tampa as well which I guess you had no problem telling from the background, clothes and so forth.

The photo with Elvis, Faron Young and Mae Boren Axton (WOBS d.j. Frank Thease from Jacksonville is missing in the photo) is from May 12, 1955. Elvis does indeed wear his tux-shirt. While on this three-week tour he drove back home to Memphis to attend Dixie Locke's junior prom while Scotty and Bill headed on to Birmingham. The tie, shirt and waist-band (don't know what it's called in english) in the picture was part of the attire he wore to the prom.
When doing research I found the ad for the Birmingham show with only Scotty and Bill advertised and I found it odd untill Ernst explained that Elvis had gone back to Memphis for the prom.

The photo of Elvis and Mae that JamesVRoy posted is probably from Jacksonville, February 23-24 1956

Sincerely
Brian
http://www.brian56.dk

Re: Jacksonville 55

Fri Nov 02, 2007 3:36 pm

JamesVRoy wrote:
Brian, just looking through the atomic powered singer book. the pic on page 25 of elvis with his crown Vic i believe was taken next to these doors


James, that is so awesome. Is that photo the backside of the Armory in Tampa??

By the way, since publishing the book I have come to learn a lot more about Elvis' cars and I hate to admit it but that's NOT his Crown Victoria. Fact is that it most likely is a 1953 Ford Mainline Ranchwagon:
Image
Image

Sincerely
Brian
http://www.brian56.dk

Re: Jacksonville 55

Fri Nov 02, 2007 4:58 pm

bripet56 wrote:JamesVRoy wrote:
Brian, just looking through the atomic powered singer book. the pic on page 25 of elvis with his crown Vic i believe was taken next to these doors


James, that is so awesome. Is that photo the backside of the Armory in Tampa??


that I believe is the left (south) side of the building if you are facing the front,
Image which would be the backstage side of the building where the stage was, same side that he's pictured autographing with the fan on that page I did about the armory. (It could however be the complete other side of the building if its symmetrical, I didn't get close enough to that side to be sure though)

this side/corner (same angle)
Image
Image
Image

These are the doors closer to the front and I'm not sure which end of the building it was taken, but you can see they're of the same construction
Image


bripet56 wrote:By the way, since publishing the book I have come to learn a lot more about Elvis' cars and I hate to admit it but that's NOT his Crown Victoria. Fact is that it most likely is a 1953 Ford Mainline Ranchwagon:
Image
Image
Sincerely
Brian
http://www.brian56.dk


nice find on the car
Last edited by JamesVRoy on Fri Nov 02, 2007 5:49 pm, edited 2 times in total.

Re: Jacksonville 55

Fri Nov 02, 2007 5:44 pm

Incredible pics/discussion, guys. Thanks for posting!

Re: Jacksonville 55

Fri Nov 02, 2007 6:09 pm

JamesVRoy wrote: (It could however be the complete other side of the building if its symmetrical, I didn't get close enough to that side to be sure though)



I just checked with my satellite 8) , it is somewhat symmetrical so it actually could be taken on the other side of the building. My guess though is it wasn't. I would tend to think that that side would be where general parking was and the artisits wouldn't be parked there
Image

Re: Jacksonville 55

Fri Nov 02, 2007 10:37 pm

Those are great photos of the Ft Homer Hesterly Armory James.
I even managed to spot the exact place where Elvis stands with the reporters and fans on August 5, 1956.

Image

Image
Image
copyright Bob Moreland/Ger Rijff

Sincerely
Brian
http://www.brian56.dk

Re: Jacksonville 55

Fri Nov 02, 2007 10:39 pm

awesome Brian !

Re: Jacksonville 55

Fri Nov 02, 2007 10:53 pm

Updates ->

Mae Boren Axton considered Jacksonville her "home," and she was one of Guralnick's main sources in Last Train To Memphis for placing the riot to Jacksonville on May 13, 1955. The shows on May 12 and 13 were the first time Elvis played Jacksonville, and she never forgot the result. Peter's prose is neither casual nor superficial regarding the event, and it is worth a look. It certainly provides the burden of proof that Brian continues to ask about.

This riot is further referenced in Elvis, the 1970 Jerry Hopkins biography, and is also clearly detailed in Day By Day (Guralnick and Jorgensen) and Ken Sharp's Writing For The King (FTD, 2006), his Mae Boren Axton interview.

IIRC, Mae did not meet Elvis until she signed on in a PR role for his May 7 - 19, 1955 tour. The interview she taped with the young singer was likely recorded at the Peabody Auditorium in Daytona Beach on May 7. The photo with Faron Young and Axton looks to be from this period.

The person who might best be able to determine whether the shirtless Elvis pictures derive from May 13 would be, of course, Ernst Jorgensen. Maybe he can make his third FECC Forum post on this topic.

Re: Jacksonville 55

Fri Nov 02, 2007 11:52 pm

Doc, please understand that I do NOT say that a riot never took place in May.

I only say that I would like to see some 1955 proof for the riot. And NO ONE has come up with such a thing. I KNOW that the riot has been mentioned in several books and that is has become gospel truth to a lot. It MAY have happened and Mae Axton MAY be right when she talked about the incident MANY years later. But so far the only thing we have that comes close to 1955 evidence of a Jacksonville riot is the Billboard clipping from August 1955 which probably refers to the July show.

Until I dug out hard 1956 evidence for "I Want You, I Need You, I Love You" being recorded on April 14, 1956 we all KNEW that it was recorded on April 11. There was NO doubt at all in our minds. It was a FACT supported by RCA-paperwork that turned out to be wrong.

I discussed the shirtless photos with Ernst long time ago and I'm pretty sure we both agreed that the photos were from July. I just tried to call Ernst but nobody at home. I'll try again tomorrow just to make sure we agree on the dating.

IIRC the lady in the photos is Ardys Bell who is mentioned in the MRS "The Rise of Elvis Presley, Vol II" on page 176.
It was at this time (July 28-29, 1955) that Ardys Bell bumped into Elvis who after having only escaped the entourage of girls who had taken his shirt off, was hiding out back near an ice machine. Ardys found Elvis eating ice from the machine and let her pose with him while her friend took a few photographs of the scared and shirt-torn Elvis.


No hard evidence, I know, but here we have at least a story that fits the photos and timeframe.

Sincerely
Brian
http://www.brian56.dk

Re: Jacksonville 55

Sat Nov 03, 2007 12:04 am

About the official riot, there is an interesting article with Jimmy Velvet. He met Elvis in Jacksonville. When he was asked about the official riots, Jimmy seems to refer to the May performance.. : http://www.elvisinfonet.com/velvet.html

interesting topic ...
Last edited by E-Cat on Sat Nov 03, 2007 12:08 am, edited 3 times in total.