Re: Red West --> Songs for Elvis, 1962-1975 !

Fri Oct 08, 2010 7:22 pm

Did Red actually write the musical arrangements on these songs or just the lyrics? Although I take nothing away from anyone who can write lyrics in my way of thinking a true songwriter is one that works out the music as well as the words.

Tony

Re: Red West --> Songs for Elvis, 1962-1975 !

Fri Oct 08, 2010 8:48 pm

Blue-Gypsy wrote:Did Red actually write the musical arrangements on these songs or just the lyrics?

The ones with just his name are 100% his. The others certainly vary.

"That's Someone You Never Forget" is pretty much all Red, with title and inspiration from Elvis.

Re: Red West --> Songs for Elvis, 1962-1975 !

Fri Oct 08, 2010 11:48 pm

In the late 80's a very dear friend of mine wrote to Red and asked him a few questions regarding Elvis.
1. How did you feel about Elvis recordindg songs you had written?
I felt very fortunate, thrilled and i still get goose bumps when i hear him sing my songs.

2. Favorite songs red wrote that elvis sang
" if everyday was like xmas"
" seing is believing"
3.
Any special/unusual memories writing for Elvis
Giving up half!! writers fee to Glen Spreen on "holly leaves and xmas trees"
and "seing is believing" to play the piano for me while i sang the songs
to Elvis and musicians at the recording studio's!!!
How do you remember Elvis!
answer
Elvis and i almost grew up together into middle age.
He was a very genorous kind and closer than my brothers were to me!
I have been condemned by fans for my book, but only Elvis and i knew the reason for the book and ONLY i have the beautiful memories of our friendship together.
Hope you find this little piece interesting!!!

Re: Red West --> Songs for Elvis, 1962-1975 !

Sat Oct 09, 2010 12:39 am

Rocker wrote:Red also wrote this one:

phpBB [video]



Thanks for posting this -- it's dangerously similar to "I Beg of You"!

I wonder how Elvis felt about one of his closest friends - one who'd surely be familiar with all aspects of Elvis' life - writing songs like "Separate Ways" and "If You Talk in Your Sleep." These were surely inspired by events in Elvis' life and Elvis' lifestyle in general, which couldn't have escaped Elvis. It surprises me especially that Elvis would be comfortable singing a song that basically incriminated him for his sexual lifestyle.

Such a complex individual!

Re: Red West --> Songs for Elvis, 1962-1975 !

Sat Oct 09, 2010 1:50 am

cliveatdell wrote:In the late 80's a very dear friend of mine wrote to Red and asked him a few questions regarding Elvis.

1. How did you feel about Elvis recording songs you had written?

I felt very fortunate, thrilled and i still get goose bumps when i hear him sing my songs.

2. Favorite songs red wrote that Elvis sang

" if everyday was like christmas"
" seeing is believing"

3. Any special/unusual memories writing for Elvis

Giving up half!! writers fee to Glen Spreen on "holly leaves and christmas trees" and "seeing is believing" to play the piano for me while i sang the songs to Elvis and musicians at the recording studio's!!!

4. How do you remember Elvis!

Elvis and i almost grew up together into middle age.
He was a very generous kind and closer than my brothers were to me!
I have been condemned by fans for my book, but only Elvis and i knew the reason for the book and ONLY i have the beautiful memories of our friendship together.


Hope you find this little piece interesting!!!

Thanks for this.

Can you tell us when in the late 80s this happened?

Re: Red West --> Songs for Elvis, 1962-1975 !

Sat Oct 09, 2010 2:46 am

Trevell wrote:Great info on Red!

If You Talk In Your Sleep has always been a favorite of mine, but I'm curious about the lyric. Elvis' version starts with "I know you're a lonely woman, but I love you". I heard a version by Little Milton that starts, "I know you're a married woman, but I love you".

I like Elvis' version much better than Milton's, but "married woman" makes more sense in this song. Was Elvis self censoring himself? What is the original lyric?


Little Milton heard Elvis' version of ''If you talk in your sleep'' on the radio and liked it.
Little Milton had a #34 R&B hit with the song in 1975.

since Little Milton heard Elvis doing it he changed the lyric

Re: Red West --> Songs for Elvis, 1962-1975 !

Sat Oct 09, 2010 2:50 am

Nice topic! I like all of Red's songwriting contributions. Of the studio-recorded material, If You Think I Don't Need You is the one I like the least.

Re: Red West --> Songs for Elvis, 1962-1975 !

Sat Oct 09, 2010 3:40 am

brian wrote:Little Milton heard Elvis' version of ''If you talk in your sleep'' on the radio ...

Interesting.

Little Milton made his first recordings at 706 Union, and they're really good.


Frankie Teardrop wrote:Nice topic! I like all of Red's songwriting contributions. Of the studio-recorded material, If You Think I Don't Need You is the one I like the least.

Fear of a Red Planet?

Re: Red West --> Songs for Elvis, 1962-1975 !

Sat Oct 09, 2010 3:57 am

drjohncarpenter wrote:
brian wrote:Little Milton heard Elvis' version of ''If you talk in your sleep'' on the radio ...

Interesting.

Little Milton made his first recordings at 706 Union, and they're really good.



Glad you like Little Milton's work.

Re: Red West --> Songs for Elvis, 1962-1975 !

Sat Oct 09, 2010 7:00 am

drjohncarpenter wrote:
Frankie Teardrop wrote:Nice topic! I like all of Red's songwriting contributions. Of the studio-recorded material, If You Think I Don't Need You is the one I like the least.

Fear of a Red Planet?


Even at his age, I bet he could kick my ass!

Re: Red West --> Songs for Elvis, 1962-1975 !

Sat Oct 09, 2010 4:04 pm

"Separate Ways" is a masterpiece in my eyes. It's just so hauntingly wonderful and intensely personal. The arrangement is absolutely perfect too. No wonder it killed Elvis to perform it.

Although this isn't the version on Record, this video is still heartwrenching:

phpBB [video]

Re: Red West --> Songs for Elvis, 1962-1975 !

Tue Oct 12, 2010 3:07 am

Good Time Charlie wrote:"Separate Ways" is a masterpiece in my eyes. It's just so hauntingly wonderful and intensely personal. The arrangement is absolutely perfect too. No wonder it killed Elvis to perform it.

He apparently never ran it down in concert, that's for sure.

Re: Red West --> Songs for Elvis, 1962-1975 !

Tue Oct 12, 2010 3:24 am

I'm sorry Doc but I can't get over what Red did with the book and recording Elvis' phone conversation without him knowing it. Sounds like he was only out for Red and screw Elvis and everybody else. :(

A true friend wouldn't have done that. Just my opinon.

Mitch

Re: Red West --> Songs for Elvis, 1962-1975 !

Tue Oct 12, 2010 4:34 am

Mitch wrote:I'm sorry Doc but I can't get over what Red did with the book and recording Elvis' phone conversation without him knowing it.

As I already noted on page 1, that issue is far more complex than this topic is meant for -- this is about Red's contribution to Elvis' recording legacy.

Suffice to say, I do not share your view. Red was definitely one of Elvis' very best friends.

Check out my post on this topic for more:
http://www.elvis-collectors.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=45106&p=616453&#p616453

Feel free to comment about the MUSIC here.

Re: Red West --> Songs for Elvis, 1962-1975 !

Tue Oct 12, 2010 5:20 am

drjohncarpenter wrote:Suffice to say, I do not share your view. Red was definitely one of Elvis' very best friends.


I agree with WAS one of Elvis' very best friends, but what he did towards the end was not being a good friend. We can agree to disagree. :)

Mitch

Re: Red West --> Songs for Elvis, 1962-1975 !

Tue Oct 12, 2010 5:22 am

On the music part I agree that Red wrote some very good songs for Elvis. My favorite is "If You Think I Don't Need You" from Viva Las Vegas. As a kid I didn't like that they cut the song short in the movie.

Mitch

Re: Red West --> Songs for Elvis, 1962-1975 !

Tue Oct 12, 2010 6:10 pm

Mitch wrote:I'm sorry Doc but I can't get over what Red did with the book and recording Elvis' phone conversation without him knowing it. Sounds like he was only out for Red and screw Elvis and everybody else. :(

A true friend wouldn't have done that. Just my opinon.

Mitch


I used to feel the same way. But I re-read Elvis What Happened. While Sonny and Hebler told the stories that were sensational, Red's stories were all about the early days. The good times. It was like he was trying to keep things in perspective.

He wanted to show what Elvis was like, not what he had become. Maybe it was a last ditch effort to wake Elvis up. I don't know.

Re: Red West --> Songs for Elvis, 1962-1975 !

Tue Oct 12, 2010 10:45 pm

drjohncarpenter wrote:
Good Time Charlie wrote:"Separate Ways" is a masterpiece in my eyes. It's just so hauntingly wonderful and intensely personal. The arrangement is absolutely perfect too. No wonder it killed Elvis to perform it.

He apparently never ran it down in concert, that's for sure.


Wasn't it rumoured to be included in the Aloha Special? Didn't he supposedly rehearse it fo that? Either way I'm not too fussed he never did it live, it would never have got close to the Master.

Re: Red West --> Songs for Elvis, 1962-1975 !

Wed Oct 13, 2010 12:10 am

Good Time Charlie wrote:Either way I'm not too fussed he never did it live, it would never have got close to the Master.

Never?

Re: Red West --> Songs for Elvis, 1962-1975 !

Wed Oct 13, 2010 2:09 am

Nope. It would have ended the same way as his Live versions of "For the Good Times" which aren't a patch on the Master and are downright boring. And I cannot possibly see how he could've bettered his Single version of "Separate Ways" on the stage.

Re: Red West --> Songs for Elvis, 1962-1975 !

Wed Oct 13, 2010 2:39 am

Good Time Charlie wrote:Nope. It would have ended the same way as his Live versions of "For the Good Times" which aren't a patch on the Master ...

The 1972 "For The Good Times" master was not released in Elvis lifetime, so that comparison is invalid.

On the other hand, one may argue he did very well doing these released studio cuts:

Just Pretend
Bridge Over Troubled Water
Early Morning Rain
I, John
Bosom of Abraham
Help Me
If You Talk In Your Sleep (Red West-Johnny Christopher)
Green, Green Grass of Home
And I Love You So

Re: Red West --> Songs for Elvis, 1962-1975 !

Wed Oct 13, 2010 2:47 am

I also doubt a "TCB Band" live arrangement of "Separate Ways" would have come off as well as the studio recording. Its a largely acoustic driven number and sadly well arranged acoustic focused tracks were never used on stage. See "In The Ghetto" for one prime example of this.

Re: Red West --> Songs for Elvis, 1962-1975 !

Wed Oct 13, 2010 3:18 am

Bobc wrote:
Mitch wrote:I'm sorry Doc but I can't get over what Red did with the book and recording Elvis' phone conversation without him knowing it. Sounds like he was only out for Red and screw Elvis and everybody else. :(

A true friend wouldn't have done that. Just my opinon.

Mitch


I used to feel the same way. But I re-read Elvis What Happened. While Sonny and Hebler told the stories that were sensational, Red's stories were all about the early days. The good times. It was like he was trying to keep things in perspective.

He wanted to show what Elvis was like, not what he had become. Maybe it was a last ditch effort to wake Elvis up. I don't know.


What was his intentions when he was taping his phone conversation with Elvis without his knowledge?

Re: Red West --> Songs for Elvis, 1962-1975 !

Wed Oct 13, 2010 3:52 am

Mitch wrote:What was his intentions when he was taping his phone conversation with Elvis without his knowledge?

Hey Mitch -

As I already noted on page 1 -- and to you on this page -- this is about Red's contribution to Elvis' recording legacy.

Check out this topic for the answer to your question:
http://www.elvis-collectors.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=45106&p=616453&#p616453

Please comment about the MUSIC here.

Re: Red West --> Songs for Elvis, 1962-1975 !

Wed Oct 13, 2010 4:17 am

Mitch wrote:On the music part I agree that Red wrote some very good songs for Elvis. My favorite is "If You Think I Don't Need You" from Viva Las Vegas. As a kid I didn't like that they cut the song short in the movie.

Mitch



Hey Doc,

I did comment on the MUSIC.

Take Care Buddy,

Mitch