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Deke Rivers II wrote:My wish too Doc.......it would be great for those that have to share with us that have not............the very fact that Elvis performed "Butterfly" was something totally new to me until you started this thread many moons ago and I have been hoping every since that these tapes would surface!
What do you think of the quote from song facts doc?drjohncarpenter wrote:"AH" must be Elvis author Alan Hanson, yes? He needs to read this topic!
I think Alan needs to read this topic! Then he will no longer be leery.promiseland wrote:What do you think of the quote from song facts doc?drjohncarpenter wrote:"AH" must be Elvis author Alan Hanson, yes? He needs to read this topic!
But Alan is not the person who left the comment on the "SongFacts" page it was Alan on EIN Interview only.drjohncarpenter wrote:I think Alan needs to read this topic! Then he will no longer be leery.promiseland wrote:What do you think of the quote from song facts doc?drjohncarpenter wrote:"AH" must be Elvis author Alan Hanson, yes? He needs to read this topic!
If that's not author Alan Hanson, who is it?AH: During my research I came across three such songs. A woman who attended Elvis’s concert in Spokane claims that he sang “Searchin’,” a Coasters hit in 1957. I didn’t report this in my book because I couldn’t confirm it, and I didn’t feel the fifty-year memory of one person was enough to say it really happened. I’m also leery of a newspaper reporter’s claim that Elvis sang Charlie Gracie’s “Butterfly” in Toronto on April 2.
Yes thats him from EINdrjohncarpenter wrote:This is the quote in your post:
If that's not author Alan Hanson, who is it?AH: During my research I came across three such songs. A woman who attended Elvis’s concert in Spokane claims that he sang “Searchin’,” a Coasters hit in 1957. I didn’t report this in my book because I couldn’t confirm it, and I didn’t feel the fifty-year memory of one person was enough to say it really happened. I’m also leery of a newspaper reporter’s claim that Elvis sang Charlie Gracie’s “Butterfly” in Toronto on April 2.
ok gotcha I missed that doc!drjohncarpenter wrote:That is already discussed on previous pages of this topic.
poormadpeter wrote:"Butterfly was written by Bernie Lowe and Kal Mann...Both Charlie Gracie and Andy Williams had million-sellers with the song in 1957...Elvis sang "Butterfly" in a performance at the Maple Leaf Gardens, Toronto."
Worth & Tamerius: Elvis. His Life From A to Z, 1992 edition, p 363.
The above quote, from hardly the best researched of Elvis books, shows that everything in the initial post was well-known long before the Doc created the topic.
A worthwhile thread, yes. But in the initial post, the Doc quite clearly suggests that his research was something we did not already know - not least by the suggestion that the song was thought to be All Shook Up. This was never the case - how could you mistake All Shook Up (repeated numberous times throughout the song) for Buttercup/fly? It's not like referring to American Trilogy as Glory Glory Hallelujah, is it?KiwiAlan wrote:poormadpeter wrote:"Butterfly was written by Bernie Lowe and Kal Mann...Both Charlie Gracie and Andy Williams had million-sellers with the song in 1957...Elvis sang "Butterfly" in a performance at the Maple Leaf Gardens, Toronto."
Worth & Tamerius: Elvis. His Life From A to Z, 1992 edition, p 363.
The above quote, from hardly the best researched of Elvis books, shows that everything in the initial post was well-known long before the Doc created the topic.
That is very unfair.
The Doc raised a very interesting subject this time and obviously put a lot of time into it, we all have learned something.
While Butterfly was known to many of us...never before has this been covered in such depth.
A very wothwhile thread.
It suggests that all these "mystery" topics that doctor has been coming up with, have only been a mystery to himpoormadpeter wrote:A worthwhile thread, yes. But in the initial post, the Doc quite clearly suggests that his research was something we did not already know - not least by the suggestion that the song was thought to be All Shook Up. This was never the case - how could you mistake All Shook Up (repeated numberous times throughout the song) for Buttercup/fly? It's not like referring to American Trilogy as Glory Glory Hallelujah, is it?KiwiAlan wrote:poormadpeter wrote:"Butterfly was written by Bernie Lowe and Kal Mann...Both Charlie Gracie and Andy Williams had million-sellers with the song in 1957...Elvis sang "Butterfly" in a performance at the Maple Leaf Gardens, Toronto."
Worth & Tamerius: Elvis. His Life From A to Z, 1992 edition, p 363.
The above quote, from hardly the best researched of Elvis books, shows that everything in the initial post was well-known long before the Doc created the topic.
That is very unfair.
The Doc raised a very interesting subject this time and obviously put a lot of time into it, we all have learned something.
While Butterfly was known to many of us...never before has this been covered in such depth.
A very wothwhile thread.
The doc wrote:
"For many years spring 1957 news reports of Elvis singing "Butterfly" in his live show were written off as a mistake. Surely, Elvis wasn't throwing an obscure single by rockabilly Charlie Gracie into his performance? Surely, the media misheard Elvis, who was really singing his new single, "All Shook Up," which ends a key line with the noun "buttercup"?
Well, maybe they didn't. But ... could Elvis have really decided to sing this hit tune? At Presley's Toronto shows four days earlier, he threw in a performance of the recorded-but-not-issued "One Night." RCA would release the classic rocker 18 months later. So, Elvis was obviously in a somewhat loose frame of mind regarding the live show.
And the song itself is a easy, breezy rocker that could be picked up by the band in a heartbeat. Perhaps the clincher to this saga was discovering today that "Butterfly" was firmly in the Hill and Range publishers stable."
He is suggesting that the song was one big mystery until now - which is clearly not the case - and in the same way that the Are You Lonesome Tonight suggests that the Blue Barron influence was new information, despite the fact it can be found in print from nearly a decade ago.
While highlighting such issues and adding info is always welcome - as are the youtube links - I do have problems with the suggestion that some great mystery has been solved (in both the case of this song and AYLT), for that simply is not the situation here.
Well, I do agree with the doc as to which version Elvis was influenced by in the case of are you lonesome tonight - but it was never a mystery to begin with.ekenee wrote:It suggests that all these "mystery" topics that doctor has been coming up with, have only been a mystery to himpoormadpeter wrote:A worthwhile thread, yes. But in the initial post, the Doc quite clearly suggests that his research was something we did not already know - not least by the suggestion that the song was thought to be All Shook Up. This was never the case - how could you mistake All Shook Up (repeated numberous times throughout the song) for Buttercup/fly? It's not like referring to American Trilogy as Glory Glory Hallelujah, is it?KiwiAlan wrote:poormadpeter wrote:"Butterfly was written by Bernie Lowe and Kal Mann...Both Charlie Gracie and Andy Williams had million-sellers with the song in 1957...Elvis sang "Butterfly" in a performance at the Maple Leaf Gardens, Toronto."
Worth & Tamerius: Elvis. His Life From A to Z, 1992 edition, p 363.
The above quote, from hardly the best researched of Elvis books, shows that everything in the initial post was well-known long before the Doc created the topic.
That is very unfair.
The Doc raised a very interesting subject this time and obviously put a lot of time into it, we all have learned something.
While Butterfly was known to many of us...never before has this been covered in such depth.
A very wothwhile thread.
The doc wrote:
"For many years spring 1957 news reports of Elvis singing "Butterfly" in his live show were written off as a mistake. Surely, Elvis wasn't throwing an obscure single by rockabilly Charlie Gracie into his performance? Surely, the media misheard Elvis, who was really singing his new single, "All Shook Up," which ends a key line with the noun "buttercup"?
Well, maybe they didn't. But ... could Elvis have really decided to sing this hit tune? At Presley's Toronto shows four days earlier, he threw in a performance of the recorded-but-not-issued "One Night." RCA would release the classic rocker 18 months later. So, Elvis was obviously in a somewhat loose frame of mind regarding the live show.
And the song itself is a easy, breezy rocker that could be picked up by the band in a heartbeat. Perhaps the clincher to this saga was discovering today that "Butterfly" was firmly in the Hill and Range publishers stable."
He is suggesting that the song was one big mystery until now - which is clearly not the case - and in the same way that the Are You Lonesome Tonight suggests that the Blue Barron influence was new information, despite the fact it can be found in print from nearly a decade ago.
While highlighting such issues and adding info is always welcome - as are the youtube links - I do have problems with the suggestion that some great mystery has been solved (in both the case of this song and AYLT), for that simply is not the situation here.
until recently.
As far as "Are you lonesome tonight" mystery, I have yet to hear any of the cover versions
that Elvis could have heard before cutting his classic version, so I can't speak of that topic.
Elvis often would hear multiple versions and come up with his own version, by borrowing a phrase here and there
to create something new. Back then it was so common for everyone to find a great a song and record it.
That is why there are so many cover songs back then.
Really? You knew it was the Barron song before this thread started. Remarkable.poormadpeter wrote:Well, I do agree with the doc as to which version Elvis was influenced by in the case of are you lonesome tonight - but it was never a mystery to begin with.ekenee wrote:It suggests that all these "mystery" topics that doctor has been coming up with, have only been a mystery to himpoormadpeter wrote:A worthwhile thread, yes. But in the initial post, the Doc quite clearly suggests that his research was something we did not already know - not least by the suggestion that the song was thought to be All Shook Up. This was never the case - how could you mistake All Shook Up (repeated numberous times throughout the song) for Buttercup/fly? It's not like referring to American Trilogy as Glory Glory Hallelujah, is it?KiwiAlan wrote:poormadpeter wrote:"Butterfly was written by Bernie Lowe and Kal Mann...Both Charlie Gracie and Andy Williams had million-sellers with the song in 1957...Elvis sang "Butterfly" in a performance at the Maple Leaf Gardens, Toronto."
Worth & Tamerius: Elvis. His Life From A to Z, 1992 edition, p 363.
The above quote, from hardly the best researched of Elvis books, shows that everything in the initial post was well-known long before the Doc created the topic.
That is very unfair.
The Doc raised a very interesting subject this time and obviously put a lot of time into it, we all have learned something.
While Butterfly was known to many of us...never before has this been covered in such depth.
A very wothwhile thread.
The doc wrote:
"For many years spring 1957 news reports of Elvis singing "Butterfly" in his live show were written off as a mistake. Surely, Elvis wasn't throwing an obscure single by rockabilly Charlie Gracie into his performance? Surely, the media misheard Elvis, who was really singing his new single, "All Shook Up," which ends a key line with the noun "buttercup"?
Well, maybe they didn't. But ... could Elvis have really decided to sing this hit tune? At Presley's Toronto shows four days earlier, he threw in a performance of the recorded-but-not-issued "One Night." RCA would release the classic rocker 18 months later. So, Elvis was obviously in a somewhat loose frame of mind regarding the live show.
And the song itself is a easy, breezy rocker that could be picked up by the band in a heartbeat. Perhaps the clincher to this saga was discovering today that "Butterfly" was firmly in the Hill and Range publishers stable."
He is suggesting that the song was one big mystery until now - which is clearly not the case - and in the same way that the Are You Lonesome Tonight suggests that the Blue Barron influence was new information, despite the fact it can be found in print from nearly a decade ago.
While highlighting such issues and adding info is always welcome - as are the youtube links - I do have problems with the suggestion that some great mystery has been solved (in both the case of this song and AYLT), for that simply is not the situation here.
until recently.
As far as "Are you lonesome tonight" mystery, I have yet to hear any of the cover versions
that Elvis could have heard before cutting his classic version, so I can't speak of that topic.
Elvis often would hear multiple versions and come up with his own version, by borrowing a phrase here and there
to create something new. Back then it was so common for everyone to find a great a song and record it.
That is why there are so many cover songs back then.
Thanks very much. Anyone who has invested even five minutes reviewing the A-Z reference book published by Fred L. Worth and Steve D. Tamerius knows that it is littered with factual errors, and should never be regarded as a credible resource.KiwiAlan wrote:The Doc raised a very interesting subject this time and obviously put a lot of time into it, we all have learned something.
While Butterfly was known to many of us...never before has this been covered in such depth.
A very wothwhile thread.
Indeed it is. And, as you have said yourself in the past, the majority of correct facts in the book are simply borrowed from elsewhere - suggesting that the information on Butterfly was in the public domain long before it reached that book. Even disregarding A Life from A to Z, that gives no excuse for the suggestion that a mystery has been solved in the AYLT thread - as suggested by the many sources for the information in that thread which I have detailed above through 5 minutes of research.drjohncarpenter wrote:Thanks very much. Anyone who has invested even five minutes reviewing the A-Z reference book published by Fred L. Worth and Steve D. Tamerius knows that it is littered with factual errors, and should never be regarded as a credible resource.KiwiAlan wrote:The Doc raised a very interesting subject this time and obviously put a lot of time into it, we all have learned something.
While Butterfly was known to many of us...never before has this been covered in such depth.
A very wothwhile thread.
This topic, like many, many others I have offered up here through the years, took many hours to research and compile. My facts always aim to be accurate and detailed. The images and article scans strive to be special, and fun. I do it for the people who take them for what they are, fresh insight into the greatest singer of the 20th century.
Sadly, there are always some who would rather take such work and piss on it. Such is the internet.
There is a lot more Mystery involved than just the song being sung live Sometimes we may want to find out why these things were done and the reasoning behind them.poormadpeter wrote:As already stated, it is in at least two books, including the one by Paul Simpson which I have and have read. That's generally what i do with books. That way you learn such things.
And that was a rather odd question coming from you, Kiwi, considering it was you suggested that the AYLT Blue Barron influence was only a mystery to the uninformed!
The mention of Are You Lonesome Tonight and Blue Barron is also in:
Elvis: A Life from A to Z by Worth and tamerius.
Untold Gold by Ace Collins.
TheHandbook of Psychobiography by William Schultz
Even wikipedia states that Elvis's version was based on Blue Barrons: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Are_You_Lonesome_Tonight%3F_(song)
No mystery.
If you read the post which you have quoted, you would know that I was talking about AYLT in that post. So try reading. Just take a little practice etc.promiseland wrote:There is a lot more Mystery involved than just the song being sung live Sometimes we may want to find out why these things were done and the reasoning behind them.poormadpeter wrote:As already stated, it is in at least two books, including the one by Paul Simpson which I have and have read. That's generally what i do with books. That way you learn such things.
And that was a rather odd question coming from you, Kiwi, considering it was you suggested that the AYLT Blue Barron influence was only a mystery to the uninformed!
The mention of Are You Lonesome Tonight and Blue Barron is also in:
Elvis: A Life from A to Z by Worth and tamerius.
Untold Gold by Ace Collins.
TheHandbook of Psychobiography by William Schultz
Even wikipedia states that Elvis's version was based on Blue Barrons: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Are_You_Lonesome_Tonight%3F_(song)
No mystery.
So poopandpeter before you go bashing on a hard worked informative thread just to look for reasons to degrade docs essential work here.
How about just once try to contribute to the topics .
Just take a little practice and I'm sure someday you'll fit in just fine
Thank you for the kind words.promiseland wrote:Sometimes we may want to find out why these things were done and the reasoning behind them.
So poopandpeter before you go bashing on a hard worked informative thread just to look for reasons to degrade docs essential work here.
So, after reading Doc's post, why did Elvis sing it live? Because he liked the song when he heard it. Great. Another "mystery solved"promiseland wrote:There is a lot more Mystery involved than just the song being sung live Sometimes we may want to find out why these things were done and the reasoning behind them[/b].poormadpeter wrote:As already stated, it is in at least two books, including the one by Paul Simpson which I have and have read. That's generally what i do with books. That way you learn such things.
And that was a rather odd question coming from you, Kiwi, considering it was you suggested that the AYLT Blue Barron influence was only a mystery to the uninformed!
The mention of Are You Lonesome Tonight and Blue Barron is also in:
Elvis: A Life from A to Z by Worth and tamerius.
Untold Gold by Ace Collins.
TheHandbook of Psychobiography by William Schultz
Even wikipedia states that Elvis's version was based on Blue Barrons: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Are_You_Lonesome_Tonight%3F_(song)
No mystery.
You're getting close ! Don't give up practice makes perfect!poormadpeter wrote: So, after reading Doc's post, why did Elvis sing it live? Because he liked the song when he heard it. Great. Another "mystery solved"