Re: Elvis' Christmas Album --> Mystery No More?

Mon Mar 08, 2010 7:48 pm

Barry wrote:Doc. I'm sure that you know that what I meant is that LPM-1951 was never issued as a gatefold, and yes I know what you are saying, however perhaps they should have stated previously released as LOC-1035, minor point.

RCA's art department was not known for its accuracy.

Re: Elvis' Christmas Album --> Mystery No More?

Mon Mar 08, 2010 8:00 pm

PEP, the red vinyl reissue is LOC--1035.

Re: Elvis' Christmas Album --> Mystery No More?

Tue Mar 09, 2010 1:01 am

Hi there!! :D :D :D

Barry wrote:PEP, the red vinyl reissue is LOC--1035.


Pictures pleeeeeease :wink:!. Bye for now :smt006.

Mike Windgren.

Re: Elvis' Christmas Album --> Mystery No More?

Tue Mar 09, 2010 4:06 am

THEMEMPHISFAN wrote:PEP, I just noticed a major difference in the 2 album photos you posted! AFM1-5486 has a completely different background surrounding Elvis' picture from the LOC-1035 album. They did a brand new photo-shoot of newly wrapped boxes and new ornaments to (almost) duplicate the old original LP.

This was already noted above.

Barry wrote:PEP. You're Welcome.
I'm going to jump ahead here.
As you know RCA--U.S. reissued the LOC-1035 as--AFM1-5486, and they tried to duplicate the front cover, but were not able to.
On the back cover in the lower right hand corner, it states previously released as LPM-1951?

Re: Elvis' Christmas Album --> Mystery No More?

Thu Mar 11, 2010 3:47 am

THEMEMPHISFAN wrote:Back to the U.S. version of LPM-1951. I went to the library today and looked at the remainder of the micro-film from The Commercial Appeal (Memphis) newspaper. I looked at mid-November thru Christmas for 1959 and for 1960, but saw nothing pertaining to an ad for Elvis' Christmas album.

The absence of anything pertaining to LPM 1951 in 1959 or 1960 is very strange, especially in Memphis.

For those who care, more information is forthcoming (hopefully).

Re: Elvis' Christmas Album --> Mystery No More?

Thu Mar 11, 2010 4:26 am

Elvis World Japan, lists LPM-1951 issued in the U.S in 1958
Wikipedia-also claims it was issued in 1958 in the U.S.

Re: Elvis' Christmas Album --> Mystery No More?

Thu Mar 11, 2010 4:35 am

Barry wrote:Elvis World Japan, lists LPM-1951 issued in the U.S in 1958
Wikipedia-also claims it was issued in 1958 in the U.S.

They are both taking from the same incorrect, decades-old data, now credibly refuted here.

In Wikipedia's case they footnote the erroneous source:

Wolfe, Charles. Elvis Presley: If Every Day Was Like Christmas, liner notes, p.7.

Re: Elvis' Christmas Album --> Mystery No More?

Thu Mar 11, 2010 5:14 am

OK Doc, but there must be accurate info somewhere as to when it was issued in the U.S.
Elvis experts let's hear from you, when was LPM-1951 issued in the U.S.?

Re: Elvis' Christmas Album --> Mystery No More?

Thu Mar 11, 2010 5:16 am

Barry wrote:OK Doc, but there must be accurate info somewhere as to when it was issued in the U.S.

So far, the only source is my Dec 1960 Billboard listing on page 1.

Re: Elvis' Christmas Album --> Mystery No More?

Thu Mar 11, 2010 5:29 am

The way all other RCA serial numbers match up.

I still maintain that LPM 1951 was available ex-factory from late 1958

The fact that it was not mentioned in Billboard is a red herring.........the SUN sides that continiued on the charts after Elvis' RCA re-issuing remained as SUN in chart listings despite being re-issued by RCA.

No one has put forward any logical explanation of why RCA would issue a 1958 serial number on an LP that wasn't to appear for another two years.

Re: Elvis' Christmas Album --> Mystery No More?

Thu Mar 11, 2010 5:38 am

KiwiAlan wrote:I still maintain that LPM 1951 was available ex-factory from late 1958 ...

Did RCA have a time machine to retrieve those 1959 photos?

Re: Elvis' Christmas Album --> Mystery No More?

Thu Mar 11, 2010 6:21 am

Neal Umphred lists LPM-1951 as a 1958 Release--A Touch Of Gold

Osborne and Alaniz also list it as a 11/58 Release--Presleyana-V
However David Petrelle--Solid Gold Elvis, lists it as 1959, not 1960, and states that LOC-1035 was deleted in 1958.

Re: Elvis' Christmas Album --> Mystery No More?

Thu Mar 11, 2010 6:26 am

Barry -- again, they are all pulling from erroneous data, which makes this topic so intriguing.

It's the first EVER to present evidence of the correct release dates for EPA 4340 and LPM 1951.

However, if any of these books offers some kind of source for their date, please show us, as I did with the Wikipedia entry. It might be instructive.

Re: Elvis' Christmas Album --> Mystery No More?

Thu Mar 11, 2010 6:35 am

Doc, the only thing I can tell you is that David Petrelle is going by the army photos on the back cover, for his statement that it came out in 59

Re: Elvis' Christmas Album --> Mystery No More?

Thu Mar 11, 2010 7:04 am

I have been following this thread for some time now and sadly, i have nothing to add, except my compliments to those who so rigorously are searching for all the pieces of the puzzle to fit. It makes for very interesting reading. Thank you.

Re: Elvis' Christmas Album --> Mystery No More?

Thu Mar 11, 2010 8:37 am

drjohncarpenter wrote:
KiwiAlan wrote:I still maintain that LPM 1951 was available ex-factory from late 1958 ...

Did RCA have a time machine to retrieve those 1959 photos?


Have you condidered that RCA could have updated the cover of LPM 1951 during it's currency

Re: Elvis' Christmas Album --> Mystery No More?

Thu Mar 11, 2010 8:38 am

We seem to have reached an impasse!

On one side is every published discography on the other side is "Dr John Carpenter" with unpublished theories.

The kicker is the serial number - LPM 1951 - a 1958 number.

Re: Elvis' Christmas Album --> Mystery No More?

Thu Mar 11, 2010 8:45 am

I haven't commented yet here but I have read every post with interest. Dr. John has done some great work but I just wish we could have at least one more source. Of course the Elvis discographies probably got the 1958 date strictly from using the serial numbers.. If only there was something like an Elvis fan club news letter from the late 50's that would mention any new release. I realize that the original fifties fans are getting older but perhaps one of us knows a first generation fan who collected Elvis' records? As it stands now I would guess that RCA planned to reissue the LP and put out the EP in 1958 but delayed them for whatever reason.
I will be keeping my eye on this thread with keen interest.

Re: Elvis' Christmas Album --> Mystery No More?

Thu Mar 11, 2010 8:48 am

The dismissal of Neal Umphred as operating off erroneous data is insulting.

Neil is one of the foremost Presley discograpy experts. If not the leading one.

Re: Elvis' Christmas Album --> Mystery No More?

Thu Mar 11, 2010 9:27 am

THEMEMPHISFAN wrote:KiwiAlan, What year does Neal Umphred have the EP "Christmas With Elvis" (EPA-4340) listed as being released?

drjohncarpenter has already proved his findings on that one by doing his own research (1959).


MEMPHISFAN


I'll get back to you on that one. It means burrowing into my Elvis shed.

Taking the serial number as a guide - EPA-4340 - would have been released a few months after King Creole in 1959. I wasn't aware that there was any dispute about this one.

Re: Elvis' Christmas Album --> Mystery No More?

Thu Mar 11, 2010 9:55 am

This is obviously a difficult case. There is some circumstantial evidence going both ways concerning the LP.
On one hand we have no real evidence of a 1958, let alone 1959 release.
On the other hand we have a chart placing for 1960, but then in 1959, both could have been on the shelves
and sold in even enough quanities to cancel each one out of the charts.
But has anyone found any evidence that LOC-1035 made the Christmas charts in 1958?

Also, I just wonder if the LPM-1951 did get some sort of limited release in 1958 and 1959.
I am talking about very very few copies distributed since they figured lots of LOC-1035 were still
in warehouses.

It's what info we don't have is why we can't say the album was released in 1960.

Perhaps Ernst be forthcoming with some old RCA paperwork that will prove this one way or the other.

Re: Elvis' Christmas Album --> Mystery No More?

Thu Mar 11, 2010 11:15 am

KiwiAlan wrote:We seem to have reached an impasse!

On one side is every published discography on the other side is "Dr John Carpenter" with unpublished theories.

Call me crazy, but I'm certain Billboard published facts weekly in 1958, 1959 and 1960.

Re: Elvis' Christmas Album --> Mystery No More?

Thu Mar 11, 2010 11:31 am

drjohncarpenter wrote:
KiwiAlan wrote:We seem to have reached an impasse!

On one side is every published discography on the other side is "Dr John Carpenter" with unpublished theories.

Call me crazy, but I'm certain Billboard published facts weekly in 1958, 1959 and 1960.


Well you are crazy if you think that Billboard is an Elvis Presley Discography

Billboard does not feature release dates.

Re: Elvis' Christmas Album --> Mystery No More?

Thu Mar 11, 2010 11:33 am

You might want to grab a shovel for that hole you're digging.

Re: Elvis' Christmas Album --> Mystery No More?

Thu Mar 11, 2010 11:39 am

drjohncarpenter wrote:You might want to grab a shovel for that hole you're digging.



We all have our opinions...no need to be abusive. You were the one who who asked for opinions from the beginning of this thread.


The weight of evidence is against your singular theory.....and that's all it is a theory

And a theory against all published evidence.