Re: Elvis' Christmas Album --> Mystery No More?

Thu Mar 04, 2010 9:59 pm

Hello Doc, The only info I have on LPM-1951 is what I have already stated.
Concerning EPA-4340, the info I have is that this was released in September
1959.It was reissued again in June 1965.
The date I have for EPA-4108 is November 1957.It was also reissued in April
1965.
This is all the info that I have on the EP's.

Concerning the LP LOC-1035 the info I have is that this was released in November 1957,and was deleted in 1958!

As I said before, I hope this is of some help.

Re: Elvis' Christmas Album --> Mystery No More?

Thu Mar 04, 2010 10:01 pm

painterboy wrote:Hello Doc, The only info I have on LPM-1951 is what I have already stated.

Oh, that's too bad.

painterboy wrote:Concerning the LP LOC-1035 the info I have is that this was released in November 1957,and was deleted in 1958!

My research proves this is untrue, you should update your records. LOC 1035 was being offered for sale well into 1960 at least.

Re: Elvis' Christmas Album --> Mystery No More?

Thu Mar 04, 2010 10:03 pm

drjohncarpenter wrote:

Image

Elvis' Christmas Album - RCA LOC 1035 (Nov 1957 -> Nov 1960)





Released: October 15, 1957

Re: Elvis' Christmas Album --> Mystery No More?

Thu Mar 04, 2010 10:09 pm

drjohncarpenter wrote:
painterboy wrote:Hello Doc, The only info I have on LPM-1951 is what I have already stated.

Oh, that's too bad.

painterboy wrote:Concerning the LP LOC-1035 the info I have is that this was released in November 1957,and was deleted in 1958!

My research proves this is untrue, you should update your records. LOC 1035 was being offered for sale well into 1960 at least.



They key word here is "deleted". THere are FTD's that came out several years ago that have since been deleted, but some dealers are still offering them for sale. just saying.

Re: Elvis' Christmas Album --> Mystery No More?

Thu Mar 04, 2010 10:13 pm

I have to agree with Ekenee on this,just because it was available in 1960,doesn't confirm that it wasn't deleted in 1958.As he said they could have been using up old stock.

Re: Elvis' Christmas Album --> Mystery No More?

Thu Mar 04, 2010 10:48 pm

3577 wrote:Released: October 15, 1957

Although my dates are meant to be approximate, in your example the historical record shows I'm quite accurate.


Image

Billboard Oct 28 1957
Previews of upcoming releases includes LOC 1035


Image

Billboard Nov 11 1957
Overview of the Christmas buying season notes "special $4.98 Elvis Presley Christmas package"


Image

Billboard Nov 25 1957
Spotlight review of LOC 1035, which "can hardly miss"


Nothing is mentioned for a mid-October release date.

Thanks for stopping by!

Re: Elvis' Christmas Album --> Mystery No More?

Thu Mar 04, 2010 11:04 pm

elvisfan_48079 posted:

"Actually Doc, one chevron (stripe) indicates the rank of private E-2. If Elvis were a private 1st class (PFC) E-3 he would have one chevron with a rocker beneath it. Here are the ranks Elvis held during his military career;

E-1: private (often referred to as buck private)
E-2: private
E-3: private first class (PFC)
E-4: specialist 4th class (often referred to as spec4)
E-5: Sergeant (often referred to as buck Sergeant)"


The U.S. Army did not start putting the "rocker" beneath the Private First Class (PFC) insignia until 1968, long after Elvis left the military. "Originally, in the Army, no insignia identified holders of [the rank of Private First Class (PFC)], but in 1920 one chevron was established for it; then a rocker was placed below the chevron in 1968 at the same time one chevron was authorized for the lower rank of private, in order to distinguish the latter from the still lower rank of recruit." See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Private_Fi ... ted_States

The photo of Elvis in his uniform on the back cover of "Elvis' Christmas Album" (LPM 1951) was taken when he was a Private First Class. Elvis made Private First Class on November 27, 1958 and advanced to Specialist 4th Class (Spec 4) on June 1, 1959. See http://en.allexperts.com/q/Presley-Elvi ... vis-14.htm Thus, the photo on the Christmas album was taken after November 27, 1958 and prior to June 1, 1959.

This supports Doc's research. Thus, it is virtually impossible that "Elvis' Christmas Album" (LPM 1951) was released for the 1958 Christmas season with the photos from the TELDEC photo shoot. However, it seems probable that the "release number" (LPM 1951) was assigned by RCA in 1958 or 1959, but the album with the photos from the TELDEC photo shoot was not released until either 1959 or 1960. The November 2, 1959 Billboard lists two RCA albums, "A Christmas Spectacular" by John Klein (LPM 2023) and "A Ding Dong Dandy Christmas" by the Three Suns (LPM 2054) - both with "release numbers" in sequence after LPM 1951.

What intrigues me is if the "release number" LPM 1951 was assigned in 1958 or 1959, did RCA have different cover art selected or was the plan to use the existing cover art for LOC 1035?

Good work Doc.

MT
Last edited by MysteryTrain on Sun Mar 07, 2010 6:25 pm, edited 3 times in total.

Re: Elvis' Christmas Album --> Mystery No More?

Thu Mar 04, 2010 11:09 pm

WOW! I have a headache trying to fathom things out but it's a great topic and thanks for those articles...I've saved them.

Re: Elvis' Christmas Album --> Mystery No More?

Thu Mar 04, 2010 11:17 pm

In general, Christmas releases appear in early November, the shopping season begins in full force around Thanksgiving, and runs through to the New Year. In October 1957, RCA was going full tilt promoting the #1 hit single "Jailhouse Rock" single and the related EP.

Re: Elvis' Christmas Album --> Mystery No More?

Thu Mar 04, 2010 11:49 pm

drjohncarpenter wrote:
3577 wrote:Released: October 15, 1957

Although my dates are meant to be approximate, in your example the historical record shows I'm quite accurate.


Image

Billboard Oct 28 1957
Previews of upcoming releases includes LOC 1035


Image

Billboard Nov 11 1957
Overview of the Christmas buying season notes "special $4.98 Elvis Presley Christmas package"


Image

Billboard Nov 25 1957
Spotlight review of LOC 1035, which "can hardly miss"


Nothing is mentioned for a mid-October release date.

Thanks for stopping by!



Of course, impossible for you admit. Imagne that?

Posting several articles doesn't help. I must believe you above books written by people with knowledge? Its not the first time you made misstakes.

Any time, to correct you!

Re: Elvis' Christmas Album --> Mystery No More?

Fri Mar 05, 2010 12:14 am

THEMEMPHISFAN wrote:Frankie Teardrop, The difference with Fun In Acapulco/Golden Records 3 is that they were back-to-back releases with only about 3 months separating them.
With the re-issue of Elvis' Christmas album, we are talking about 2 full years difference, and for a supposed late in the year 1960 release, why in the world would RCA use all pre-1960 photos on the front and back of the LP?
It just doesn't add up.

The original plan by RCA in 1963 was (more than likely) to release Fun In Acapulco following "The World's Fair" album as was done in the U.K.
Somewhere along the way, they decided to release a 3rd volume of Elvis' golden records and obviously issued it before Fun In Acapulco in the U.S.
It's very possible that the movie of Fun In Acapulco was delayed from original release plans and therefore Golden Records 3 stepped in.

1963 U.S. releases -
LPM/LSP 2697 (4/63) IT HAPPENED AT THE WORLD'S FAIR
LPM/LSP 2765 (8/63) ELVIS' GOLDEN RECORDS Volume 3
LPM/LSP 2756 (11/63) FUN IN ACAPULCO

1963-64 U.K. releases of same albums -
RD/SF 7565 (5/63) IT HAPPENED AT THE WORLD'S FAIR
RD/SF 7609 (12/63) FUN IN ACAPULCO
RD/SF 7630 (4/64) ELVIS' GOLDEN RECORDS Volume 3



Ernst explains in A Life in Music that Colonel Parker and RCA slotted a studio LP containg 12 of the songs cut in Nashville in late May of 1963. This would be promoted the Devil in Disguise/Please Don't Drag That String Around single. However, seeing that move soundtrack LPs were far outselling studio LPs, the Colonel decided that Elvis' Golden Records Volume 3 would be released, figuring the collection of hit tunes would sell more. At one point, the Fun in Acapulco LP was not set to be released in conjunction with the release of the film.

P.S.: Great detective work and post, Doc.!
Last edited by Mike C on Fri Mar 05, 2010 1:40 am, edited 1 time in total.

Re: Elvis' Christmas Album --> Mystery No More?

Fri Mar 05, 2010 12:26 am

Mike C wrote:Ernst explains in A Life in Music that Colonel Parker and RCA slotted a studio LP containg 12 of the songs cut in Nashville in late May of 1963. This would be promoted the Devil in Disguise/Puppet on a String single. However, seeing that move soundtrack LPs were far outselling studio LPs, the Colonel decided that Elvis' Golden Records Volume 3 would be released, figuring the collection of hit tunes would sell more. At one point, the Fun in Acapulco LP was not set to be released in conjunction with the release of the film.

P.S.: Great detective work and post, Doc.!

Thanks, Mike.

The DOC loves the man and his music!!!

Re: Elvis' Christmas Album --> Mystery No More?

Fri Mar 05, 2010 12:52 am

Very interesting topic, just when I think I know a lot about Elvis - up come posts like this. Some of you are the real Elvis experts!

Re: Elvis' Christmas Album --> Mystery No More?

Fri Mar 05, 2010 1:07 am

hollandgroupc2008 wrote:Very interesting topic, just when I think I know a lot about Elvis - up come posts like this. Some of you are the real Elvis experts!

Thank you so much for the kind words!

It's all good here at FECC!

Re: Elvis' Christmas Album --> Mystery No More?

Fri Mar 05, 2010 1:26 am

I was always with the impression as a vinyl collector that LOC-1035 was never re-issued or even produced after 57' and LPM-1951 was sold with same tracks, title in 58'. It could be that there were leftovers (not sold) up until the early 60s of the original release because of (lower?) price for the "re-issue" since it was a regular,plain, non-gatefold with gift sticker and thus much cheaper and easier for RCA to produce and even distribute (weight) and of course sell. Where art though Paul Dowling? Great thread Doc!!

Re: Elvis' Christmas Album --> Mystery No More?

Fri Mar 05, 2010 1:39 am

THEMEMPHISFAN wrote:Mike C wrote: "....Devil in Disguise/Puppet on a String single."

Perhaps you meant "Devil In Disguise/Please Don't Drag That String Around" single. :roll:


THEMEMPHISFAN
p.s. - Doc is a great detective, but he hasn't proven his case concerning LPM-1951.


THEMEMPHISFAN loves the man and his music!!!


Yes, that is what I meant! I was singing the song as I typed and put in the wrong info. :oops:

Re: Elvis' Christmas Album --> Mystery No More?

Sat Mar 06, 2010 4:14 am

Juan Luis wrote:I was always with the impression as a vinyl collector that LOC-1035 was never re-issued or even produced after 57' ...

Right, as was I. But the evidence points in a different direction.

Have faith, someone who may know a whole lot more will be checking out this topic soon, and supplying more insight.

Re: Elvis' Christmas Album --> Mystery No More?

Sat Mar 06, 2010 4:21 am

drjohncarpenter wrote:
Juan Luis wrote:I was always with the impression as a vinyl collector that LOC-1035 was never re-issued or even produced after 57' ...

Right, as was I. But the evidence points in a different direction.

Have faith, someone who may know a whole lot more will be checking out this topic soon, and supplying more insight.


I dunno Doc,I think youve nailed it.
Always facsinating,for me as a collector,is the ins and outs of different releases.And,you have documented proof(who would know better,than the people and media outlets who were THERE at the time.).
The evidence is overwhelming,and Im updating my release database.
Thanks.

Re: Elvis' Christmas Album --> Mystery No More?

Sat Mar 06, 2010 5:45 am

THEMEMPHISFAN wrote:Today I looked at Nov./Dec.1958 micro-film of The Commercial Appeal (Memphis newspaper) at the library and couldn't find an ad for either version of Elvis' Christmas Album. There was an ad for various artists' albums and King Creole was one of them.

One interesting article I saw while searching the micro-film was from Friday, December 12, 1958 headlined - Pfc. Elvis' Income For '58 Still A Healthy $2,000,000.
The article was from a recent interview with Colonel Parker in Madison, Tennessee in which he did a lot of bragging on his boy. He said that Elvis' income would be as much in 1958 as it was the year before, and went on to add that Elvis "has been drawing 15,000 to 20,000 letters each week". This was probably Colonel Parker's way of letting it be known that Elvis' popularity wasn't dwindling at all just because he was away for awhile.
Speaking of income, the article stated, "Elvis' Army monthly wage recently rose to $99.37 when he was promoted to private first class."

Also mentioned was that Elvis' recent single "One Night/I Got Stung" had already sold 1,200,000 copies in its first 4 weeks of release!

At the end of the article was Elvis' mailing address in Germany.


THEMEMPHISFAN


Great Stuff.Thanks!

Posts like this make it clear why FECC is #1.

Re: Elvis' Christmas Album --> Mystery No More?

Sat Mar 06, 2010 6:57 am

drjohncarpenter wrote:
Juan Luis wrote:I was always with the impression as a vinyl collector that LOC-1035 was never re-issued or even produced after 57' ...

Right, as was I. But the evidence points in a different direction.

Have faith, someone who may know a whole lot more will be checking out this topic soon, and supplying more insight.
Thanks.

Re: Elvis' Christmas Album --> Mystery No More?

Sun Mar 07, 2010 1:14 am

Thank you for the kind words and help. It appears the Nov 2, 1959 is OK.

Re: Elvis' Christmas Album --> Mystery No More?

Sun Mar 07, 2010 2:50 am

elvisfan_48079 posted:

"Actually Doc, one chevron (stripe) indicates the rank of private E-2. If Elvis were a private 1st class (PFC) E-3 he would have one chevron with a rocker beneath it. Here are the ranks Elvis held during his military career;

E-1: private (often referred to as buck private)
E-2: private
E-3: private first class (PFC)
E-4: specialist 4th class (often referred to as spec4)
E-5: Sergeant (often referred to as buck Sergeant)"



The U.S. Army did not start putting the "rocker" beneath the Private First Class (PFC) insignia until 1968, long after Elvis left the military. "Originally, in the Army, no insignia identified holders of [the rank of Private First Class (PFC)], but in 1920 one chevron was established for it; then a rocker was placed below the chevron in 1968 at the same time one chevron was authorized for the lower rank of private, in order to distinguish the latter from the still lower rank of recruit." See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Private_Fi ... ted_States

The photo of Elvis in his uniform on the back cover of "Elvis' Christmas Album" (LPM 1951) was taken when he was a Private First Class. Elvis made Private First Class on November 27, 1958 and advanced to Specialist 4th Class (Spec 4) on June 1, 1959. See http://en.allexperts.com/q/Presley-Elvi ... vis-14.htm Thus, the photo on the Christmas album was taken after November 27, 1958 and prior to June 1, 1959.

This supports Doc's research. Thus, it is virtually impossible that "Elvis' Christmas Album" (LPM 1951) was released for the 1958 Christmas season with the photos from the TELDEC photo shoot. However, it seems probable that the "release number" (LPM 1951) was assigned by RCA in 1958 or 1959, but the album with the photos from the TELDEC photo shoot was not released until either 1959 or 1960. The November 2, 1959 Billboard lists two RCA albums, "A Christmas Spectacular" by John Klein (LPM 2023) and "A Ding Dong Dandy Christmas" by the Three Suns (LPM 2054) - both with "release numbers" in sequence after LPM 1951.

What intrigues me is if the "release number" LPM 1951 was assigned in 1958 or 1959, did RCA have different cover art selected or was the plan to use the existing cover art for LOC 1035?

Good work Doc.

MT
Last edited by MysteryTrain on Sun Mar 07, 2010 6:27 pm, edited 3 times in total.

Re: Elvis' Christmas Album --> Mystery No More?

Sun Mar 07, 2010 3:53 am

Well done Doc - excellent research 8)

Re: Elvis' Christmas Album --> Mystery No More?

Sun Mar 07, 2010 4:51 pm

The promotional LP RCA SP-33-66 “Christmas Programming From RCA Victor” was released November 1959. On the back cover you’ll find pictures of 12 RCA Christmas albums, including ELVIS’ CHRISTMAS ALBUM (LPM-1951).
For that reason I think, the LPM-1951 was released November or December 1959.

Good work, Doc.

Mississippi

Re: Elvis' Christmas Album --> Mystery No More?

Sun Mar 07, 2010 5:03 pm

MysteryTrain wrote:
The U.S. Army did not start putting the "rocker" beneath the Private First Class (PFC) insignia until 1968, long after Elvis left the military. "Originally, in the Army, no insignia identified holders of [the rank of Private First Class (PFC)], but in 1920 one chevron was established for it; then a rocker was placed below the chevron in 1968 at the same time one chevron was authorized for the lower rank of private, in order to distinguish the latter from the still lower rank of recruit." See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Private_Fi ... ted_States

This supports Doc's research. Thus, it is virtually impossible that "Elvis' Christmas Album" (LPM 1951) was released for the 1958 Christmas season with the photos from the TELDEC photo shoot. However, it seems probable that the "release number" (LPM 1951) was assigned by RCA in 1958, but the album with the photos from the TELDEC photo shoot was not released until either 1959 or 1960. The November 2, 1958 Billboard lists two RCA albums, "A Christmas Spectacular" by John Klein (LPM 2023) and "A Ding Dong Dandy Christmas" by the Three Suns (LPM 2054) - both with "release numbers" in sequence after LPM 1951.

Good work Doc.

MT


MT, thank you for correcting my error. The military insignia manual I consulted has a typo incorrectly identifying the year as 1958 instead of 1968. However, in two separate sections of the same manual the correct year of 1968 is given. I also verifed this on the U.S. Army website.

Doc, please don't forget to update your original post as it was correct to begin with. My apologies for any confusion caused.

Fantastic thread!!! ::rocks