Re: A Strange Session --> August 22, 1967

Wed Aug 18, 2010 8:23 am

:lol: Great post Doc....now why does Rambling Rose sort of remind me of What D' I Say? :roll:

Re: A Strange Session --> August 22, 1967

Wed Aug 18, 2010 9:28 am

YDKM wrote::lol: Great post Doc....now why does Rambling Rose sort of remind me of What D' I Say? :roll:

Yes! There are clear stylistic similarities to "What'd I Say," the 1959 Ray Charles classic.

Re: A Strange Session --> August 22, 1967

Fri May 06, 2011 5:15 pm

HEY!
CONGRATULAITIONS!

This article has been expanded - &/or has been somewhat copied - off FECC and used in the new 'Guitar Man' FTD release credited to some 'J Saulovich and Ernst Jorgensen'.

Interesting stuff.

Great to see this stuff being read by one and all & not limited to this message board.

Cheers
Piers

Re: A Strange Session --> August 22, 1967

Fri May 06, 2011 5:20 pm

PiersEIN wrote:some 'J Saulovich


Saulovich? Is that cockney rhyming slang?

(Just kidding!! i have no idea what he is talking about :smt002 )

Re: A Strange Session --> August 22, 1967

Thu Mar 15, 2012 1:16 am

Just caught up with this post. I always thought too that Elvis might have had a "comeback" in 1978, it seems to me he went thru 10 year periods of boredom. 1966-67 you can hear the boredom in his voice on the paradise hawaiian style tracks, the double trouble cuts etc.. in 76-77 boredom and slurring in from elvis presley boulevard and cuts from moody blue album.Plus the sad songs of loss 10 years apart. Perhaps especially after 1977, the bodyguard book and the June special that was taped, He would have had to do a complete turn around and re-invent himself. But by that time he just didn't have it in him. But if destiny had been different.........

Re: A Strange Session --> August 22, 1967

Thu Mar 15, 2012 3:12 am

Sorry for the whiny post I just deleted. I didn't check the original date of this topic. Which was wonderful, Doc.

For an update, as best as we all could do at the time, check THIS thread, which includes a major FECC investigation, with documents, newspaper clippings, magazine articles, and continued efforts to track down the truth about the session. (It was my topic, but I'm not bragging or anything.)

http://www.elvis-collectors.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=64940

Feel free to revive it!

rjm
P.S. -- It was kind of a Halloween Mystery Thread, but the Vernal Equinox is coming up, so it seems time to revive things!
Last edited by rjm on Thu Mar 15, 2012 3:21 am, edited 1 time in total.

Re: A Strange Session --> August 22, 1967

Thu Mar 15, 2012 3:21 am

Has anyone been able to figure out why these sessions were cancelled? Has anyone reached out and asked Marty Lacker, Red or Sonny West, Jerry Schilling, Joe Esposito, Billy Smith, or even George Klein about this.

I just think it's odd that every source linked these cancelled sessions to the auto accident involving Richard Davis and the gardener. Why were they even linked together in the first place? What was the earliest known source that linked them together?

Is it remotely possible that the reason that they were linked together is due to some sort of legal procedure that Elvis had to take part in almost four years after the accident, such as a deposition or something in relation to a civil lawsuit that forced Elvis to cancel his sessions at RCA Hollywood.

I would love to be able to finally have a definitive answer regarding why these sessions were cancelled. Ultimately, I'm reminded of the quote from Priscilla that "Steve Binder saved Elvis." Maybe there's more truth behind that quote than what we know.

What members of the Memphis Mafia were around right after filming of "Speedway" wrapped up?

Daryl

Re: A Strange Session --> August 22, 1967

Thu Mar 15, 2012 3:25 am

on page 232 of Ernst's book, he refers to rambling Rose as a "country" song, which would fit in with Nat King Cole's song. He also states that the song was in Freddy Bienstock's publishing catalogue - I am sure there are those on here that can find out which version of the song was in that catalogue at that time. Considering that Elvis was playing around with standards such as Fools Rush In and It's A Sin To Tell A Lie just a year before, this would suggest that Nat King Cole's song was the more likely contender, especially when The Wonder of You was also considered for this session, suggesting a leaning towards well-known middle-of-the-road songs. It's also interesting that Ernst states that Della Reese's version of After Loving You was a possible too - with Reese also coming very much from the standard school of singer, it would add credence that Presley was looking more at influences from middle of the road and standards singers

Re: A Strange Session --> August 22, 1967

Thu Mar 15, 2012 3:50 am

Daryl wrote:Has anyone been able to figure out why these sessions were cancelled? Has anyone reached out and asked Marty Lacker, Red or Sonny West, Jerry Schilling, Joe Esposito, Billy Smith, or even George Klein about this.

I just think it's odd that every source linked these cancelled sessions to the auto accident involving Richard Davis and the gardener. Why were they even linked together in the first place? What was the earliest known source that linked them together?

Is it remotely possible that the reason that they were linked together is due to some sort of legal procedure that Elvis had to take part in almost four years after the accident, such as a deposition or something in relation to a civil lawsuit that forced Elvis to cancel his sessions at RCA Hollywood.

I would love to be able to finally have a definitive answer regarding why these sessions were cancelled. Ultimately, I'm reminded of the quote from Priscilla that "Steve Binder saved Elvis." Maybe there's more truth behind that quote than what we know.

What members of the Memphis Mafia were around right after filming of "Speedway" wrapped up?

Daryl


You were in the earlier thread. So, you know the answers to this. As I recall, Sonny spoke of Richard's ongoing distress over it. So, there you go with one MM. I don't know about the others.

I never heard about it before reading it in Guralnick. Albert (the person, not the dog {LALLAL}), missed it completely. So did Guralnick, because there was documentation from '63, including a lawsuit. It's unclear when the suit was actually settled, if I remember. I mean I don't remember when the suit was settled, but it was.

Right after Lisa was born, Vernon was in California, and he (according to Peter and Ernst's DaybyDay) took full, durable power-of-attorney over his son, which is a weird time to do that! Elvis had JUST become a new father, and his father took his power-of-attorney. I only gave that to my dad once, when I had to have major surgery back in early '03. And then it was terminated. So, I know there are two types: "power of attorney," which doesn't extend that far, and "durable" power-of-attorney," which does.)

So, with the timing, that is an unusual thing. So, I thought for the longest time, reading Guralnick, and then DayByDay, that it was directly due to the Davis thing. But it apparently wasn't. Unless the settlement process took a while. Vernon always handled Elvis's business things, and this would have been a BIG thing. It was a huge amount for the time! But, of course, with a settlement, it would have been much less. But enough to give Vernon an apoplexy.

Anybody know what-all was going on during this late-67, early '68 period in terms of Elvis's personal-financial situation? That might help.

rjm
P.S. -- My theory is that the publishers and especially Felton, wanted Elvis in Nashville, period. Felton was just establishing himself. I see him as the instigator. Only that makes a lot of sense. So, you're Felton: how do you get Elvis out of California, with no resistance, and quickly? (I don't know. But I think you could EASILY spread a rumor that perhaps a drug bust was imminent. Elvis had been dabbling with pot, acid, and such in the sixties . . . and Larry got busted in '64. During his interrogation, they mostly wanted Larry to flip on Elvis. He did not, because there was no pot in Larry's room, to begin with. He had accidentally burnt it up back in L.A. They wanted to take Elvis down, with Larry, for "trafficking." Marty recalled this in the MM book, saying "Larry was bad news," which isn't fair at all. In fact, as Larry was being dragged away, Elvis knew EXACTLY who to call in L.A. and tell them not to send anything new. Elvis did NOT get the acid from Larry; Peter spoke to a "fan" who gave him "tabs of windowpane acid." This was apparently a direct interview, though obviously no name could be used.

And in the early '68 sessions, which included the demented "Man In the Moon" ditty, among other things, Elvis was apparently in a "silly" mood. VERY silly. So, one could easily understand how Elvis would be frightened by such a rumor. Call the Colonel, and the next thing he knew, he was in a Vegas hotel room, awaiting a plane back to Memphis. And then Nashville, for the actual '67 session. When 'cilla was about 6 months along with Lisa, Elvis startled her by asking for a trial separation, and then told her to forget about it. He was just going through some stuff. Mr. Lansky, in Clothier to The King (a GREAT coffee-table history book), 'cilla tried to buy Elvis a leather jacket that Christmas. There weren't enough funds available, and she was embarrassed. Mr. Lansky, always so nice and understanding, told her "I'll float you." And nothing more was said about it. So there were financial issues! And one more thing, which CANNOT be corroborated. Johnny Bragg got out of prison around the time time Elvis was shooting Stay Away, Joe. You (meaning "you ALL") really should get the book, and read the story for yourself. It CANNOT be corroborated, and Johnny knew this, and so did the biographer. But the biographer did corroborate most everything else, so it cannot be dismissed out-of-hand, either. Especially when Escott or Hawkins (always think of 'em as one person . . .) spoke to Johnny in '71, and he was talking about trying to find Elvis about "a loan." They thought he just wanted money from Elvis, which would have been unusual for Johnny, who earlier refused Elvis's offer in '61 at the prison visit. But if he was asking in regard to a loan, it may be that if you read just between the lines, only a little, Elvis was allegedly talking about money in late '67, to Johnny. About people "mooching off of him" back at Graceland. Johnny said he had a "big ole pistol" on his hip, and "might have been high." Elvis had allegedly got on his bike, and . . . well, read the book. http://www.amazon.com/Just-Walkin-Rain-Prisonaires-Pioneers/dp/1580631401/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1331772571&sr=8-1)

Lansky's book:http://www.lanskybros.com/king_en/lansky-bros-clothier-to-the-king-book-pre-order-may-2010.html

GREAT BOOK! Great photos!

So, these were interesting, mysterious times. I'm just trying to connect the dots. Doc. . . Doc . . . bzzzzzz. . . . bzzzzzz.
Last edited by rjm on Thu Mar 15, 2012 5:11 am, edited 4 times in total.

Re: A Strange Session --> August 22, 1967

Thu Mar 15, 2012 4:24 am

Daryl wrote:Has anyone been able to figure out why these sessions were cancelled? Has anyone reached out and asked Marty Lacker, Red or Sonny West, Jerry Schilling, Joe Esposito, Billy Smith, or even George Klein about this.

What are you waiting for?

Re: A Strange Session --> August 22, 1967

Thu Mar 15, 2012 4:55 am

drjohncarpenter wrote:
Daryl wrote:Has anyone been able to figure out why these sessions were cancelled? Has anyone reached out and asked Marty Lacker, Red or Sonny West, Jerry Schilling, Joe Esposito, Billy Smith, or even George Klein about this.

What are you waiting for?


Tee-hee. (Anyone who actually wishes to "Ask Marty," can "Ask Marty." Maybe he'll give out the info about this unusual circumstance. Maybe. Or perhaps he would "not remember." That's always useful in a pinch. Or maybe he'd explain everything. I think if this were so, it would already be out there.)

In all seriousness, it would be enlightening to find out who gave Peter Guralnick the misinformation about the "relationship" between the gardener incident and the cancelled session. THAT would be instructive as to the original motive for the whole thing.

rjm
P.S. -- To me, I keep thinkng "Felton." When you have a mystery like this: a "whodunit," you must ask the following: who had the most to gain from the outcome? And the answer is Felton Jarvis. The most to gain, and if Elvis did well in California with the Wrecking Crew, the most to lose. So, how could Felton, if he had something to do with this, have gotten Elvis out of dodge? I can think of only one way, as indicated above. Get Elvis to think he could be in trouble. A well-placed rumor. And then Elvis would call the Col., and he'd be suddenly spirited away. In that case, it's really not that complicated.

But we just don't know. I'd reckon that the conduit for whatever caused Elvis to suddenly bolt might well have been the SAME PERSON who told Peter Guralnick that the gardener incident happened in '67. When it did not. So the person to contact is NOT an MM. The person to contact is Peter Guralnick.

Re: A Strange Session --> August 22, 1967

Thu Mar 15, 2012 5:01 am

Priscilla might know.

Re: A Strange Session --> August 22, 1967

Thu Mar 15, 2012 7:44 am

drjohncarpenter wrote:Priscilla might know.


Indeed she might. :wink:

For all we know, SHE might be that person with whom Peter spoke about this. Let's say Felton mentions something "he heard through the grapevine" to Col. Parker. Parker shudders and instructs Priscilla to move it. Simple. She was there.

rjm

Re: A Strange Session --> August 22, 1967

Thu Mar 15, 2012 7:56 am

I can't imagine Elvis doing a Nat King Cole song (ie: Ramblin Rose). No way, not in a million years.

Re: A Strange Session --> August 22, 1967

Thu Mar 15, 2012 7:59 am

TCB-FAN wrote:I can't imagine Elvis doing a Nat King Cole song (ie: Ramblin Rose). No way, not in a million years.


No need to wait THAT long.

phpBB [video]



phpBB [video]



rjm
P.S. -- There may be more; just came right to mind. I like 'em both. I have them on my X-mas CD-R, or one of 'em; I have two.

Re: A Strange Session --> August 22, 1967

Thu Mar 15, 2012 8:17 am

TCB-FAN wrote:I can't imagine Elvis doing a Nat King Cole song (ie: Ramblin Rose). No way, not in a million years.

He did tape a beautiful version of the Nat King Cole hit "Mona Lisa" back in 1959.

But the song in question is the Lewis Sun cut, as determined on page 2:

I've Been Twistin' / Ramblin' Rose (SUN 374, Jan 1962)
http://www.philxmilstein.com/probe/tracks/JerryLeeLewis-Ramblin%27Rose.mp3

Re: A Strange Session --> August 22, 1967

Thu Mar 15, 2012 3:55 pm

I'm sure Elvis would have made a great version of "Ramblin' Rose" (same Nat King Cole recorded).

Re: A Strange Session --> August 22, 1967

Fri Mar 30, 2012 9:28 am

Renan wrote:I'm sure Elvis would have made a great version of "Ramblin' Rose" (same Nat King Cole recorded).

Maybe, but it's very good he never cut that one in 1967. It would have antiquated him.

And he was indeed a fan of Della Reese's 1965 recording of "After Loving You," but as we may see by his 1966 California home demo, he adds a lot more grit to his rendition than what one hears in Reese's single. This certainly dampens the notion that Elvis was shooting for mellower fare in the summer of 1967.


phpBB [video]


Elvis Presley, "After Loving You" (Home Demo, 1966)

And at his Memphis sessions three years later, he remembered the song and waxed a rendition with even more grit. True grit, one might say. Kind of ironic for 1969.

Re: A Strange Session --> August 22, 1967

Fri Mar 30, 2012 11:30 am

rjm wrote:
TCB-FAN wrote:I can't imagine Elvis doing a Nat King Cole song (ie: Ramblin Rose). No way, not in a million years.


No need to wait THAT long.

phpBB [video]



phpBB [video]



rjm
P.S. -- There may be more; just came right to mind. I like 'em both. I have them on my X-mas CD-R, or one of 'em; I have two.



P.S that is not a "Nat" song.

Re: A Strange Session --> August 22, 1967

Fri Mar 30, 2012 11:50 am

Scarre wrote:
rjm wrote:
TCB-FAN wrote:I can't imagine Elvis doing a Nat King Cole song (ie: Ramblin Rose). No way, not in a million years.


No need to wait THAT long.

phpBB [video]



phpBB [video]



rjm
P.S. -- There may be more; just came right to mind. I like 'em both. I have them on my X-mas CD-R, or one of 'em; I have two.



P.S that is not a "Nat" song.


You mean you like Bing Crosby's version?? Over Nat Cole's? :o

rjm

Re: A Strange Session --> August 22, 1967

Sat Mar 31, 2012 7:01 pm

rjm wrote:
drjohncarpenter wrote:
Daryl wrote:Has anyone been able to figure out why these sessions were cancelled? Has anyone reached out and asked Marty Lacker, Red or Sonny West, Jerry Schilling, Joe Esposito, Billy Smith, or even George Klein about this.

What are you waiting for?


Tee-hee. (Anyone who actually wishes to "Ask Marty," can "Ask Marty." Maybe he'll give out the info about this unusual circumstance. Maybe. Or perhaps he would "not remember." That's always useful in a pinch. Or maybe he'd explain everything. I think if this were so, it would already be out there.)

In all seriousness, it would be enlightening to find out who gave Peter Guralnick the misinformation about the "relationship" between the gardener incident and the cancelled session. THAT would be instructive as to the original motive for the whole thing.

rjm
P.S. -- To me, I keep thinkng "Felton." When you have a mystery like this: a "whodunit," you must ask the following: who had the most to gain from the outcome? And the answer is Felton Jarvis. The most to gain, and if Elvis did well in California with the Wrecking Crew, the most to lose. So, how could Felton, if he had something to do with this, have gotten Elvis out of dodge? I can think of only one way, as indicated above. Get Elvis to think he could be in trouble. A well-placed rumor. And then Elvis would call the Col., and he'd be suddenly spirited away. In that case, it's really not that complicated.

But we just don't know. I'd reckon that the conduit for whatever caused Elvis to suddenly bolt might well have been the SAME PERSON who told Peter Guralnick that the gardener incident happened in '67. When it did not. So the person to contact is NOT an MM. The person to contact is Peter Guralnick.


You do bring up a great point, rjm. It seems to me that Felton was a bit insecure about his status as RCA's hand-picked staff producer for Elvis, once Chet Atkins backed out. Felton was left out of the loop for the TV Special and was merely an on-looker for the American sessions in 1969. And of course, there's the fact that Felton started the false rumor about Chips trying to steal "In The Ghetto" from Elvis in 1970, after Chips had produced a single, "The Sidewalks Of The Ghetto" by Eternity's Children. So there is precedent that Felton would stoop to that sort of dirty tactic, to ensure that he'd be the one to oversee production.

The one problem I find with using Felton as a scapegoat was why would Felton risk pulling a stunt like that in '67 when he still had the production title under control, even though the session was scheduled for RCA Hollywood rather than RCA Nashville. Felton didn't seem to have a problem using RCA Hollywood in 1972 and 1975. And wasn't Billy Strange just supposed to do the arrangements on these sessions, not the production. So what was Felton afraid of happening if Elvis had recorded during the planned session at RCA Hollywood that Felton was going to oversee production on. The only thing I can think of is possibly losing production control to Billy Strange.

The one thing that would make some sort of sense is if Elvis heard the Jerry Reed version of "Guitar Man" out in California and told Felton that he'd like to record that song with that type of guitar sound. Felton may have told Elvis that if they moved the session to Nashville, he'd be able to bring Jerry into the studio to replicate that sound. But again, why would they have waited until the last minute to cancel those recording sessions. Unless Elvis heard Jerry's record at the last minute. Then it would make sense.