Re: Clyde McPhatter Says Hello -> August 1970

Tue Aug 18, 2009 11:30 am

drjohncarpenter wrote:More importantly, McPhatter is the only one who could have made that "moves" comment to Elvis where both would get the joke.


False. He was one of the people who both could have naturally joked about that and been understood by Elvis in that regard. Jackie Wilson was certainly another (not that this is Jackie, obviously), the point being that in addition to McPhatter the person in question could well have been a more obscure contemporary of or influence on Elvis.

Re: Clyde McPhatter Says Hello -> August 1970

Tue Aug 18, 2009 11:32 am

Hey dude :twisted: . Don't you have any sense of admiration for PEP's detective work and the extreme lengths he's gone to? PEP says he's going to call and check with the EP estate archives superviser who could have a list of all the persons there backstage on 10 August.

Give him a fair go. PEP's a LEG and I salute him.
Last edited by walter hale on Wed Aug 19, 2009 12:22 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Re: Clyde McPhatter Says Hello -> August 1970

Tue Aug 18, 2009 11:37 am

drjohncarpenter wrote:
I'm quite happy to stand with Ernst Jorgensen, Marty Lacker and Lamar Fike as noting that the man we see is the great R&B singer, Clyde McPhatter.


Fair enough Doc, I haven't given up yet.
I will say this tho, Jimmy Velvet was very confident that was not McPhatter.
There appeared to be No doubt in his mind. He said it with confidence,
because he knew McPhatter personally.
He felt the man in questioned, was a younger man than McPhatter
He felt too, he had seen the person in question before.
Anyway, the next step for me, is to get intouch with EPE
and to send a clip via email to Jimmy Velvet.
By the way, I am not trying to under mind you and I do not think anyone should either.
I just think, this is a important mystery that needs to be confirmed either way.
I am not looking to find who is right and who is wrong, I am searching for the truth
in this matter to satisfy, on both sides on the coin.
Right now, I am still stuck in the middle and am on the fence with this one.


PEP 8)

Re: Clyde McPhatter Says Hello -> August 1970

Tue Aug 18, 2009 11:44 am

Inigo Montoya wrote:False. He was one of the people who both could have naturally joked about that and been understood by Elvis in that regard. Jackie Wilson was certainly another (not that this is Jackie, obviously), the point being that in addition to McPhatter the person in question could well have been a more obscure contemporary of or influence on Elvis.

Sadly, in your never-ending haste to denigrate any post by the doc, you miss the reference in my comment, which was specific to the August 10 after party.

Wilson was not there, that part you didn't miss.

Wait. Maybe you're right. Yes -- you're SO RIGHT. Kenny Rogers was there with members of the First Edition. It must have been Rogers who talked to Elvis about stealing moves.

Re: Clyde McPhatter Says Hello -> August 1970

Wed Aug 19, 2009 10:04 am

drjohncarpenter wrote:
PEP wrote:Sorry Doc, thing's aren't looking too promising that the person in question, is McPhatter.

Unfortunately, the image you took along to Memphis (1) was much too busy for anyone to make a qualified judgement, and (2) wrongly identified some of the shots as McPhatter, when they were other party guests.
Well, sorry to say Doc, I actually brought 3 versions to Memphis to show people,....... slightly edited for each version.
One version, was focusing more on Just the person in questioned and was not as busy, as it only focused on the picture's taken during the party on the 10th of August 1970. I failed to mention this, the first time around.

However ...

It's not just the images which are key, but the interaction we see and hear with Elvis. He appears to be more than a little daunted chatting with McPhatter -- and no wonder, Clyde was a huge hero. More importantly, McPhatter is the only one who could have made that "moves" comment to Elvis where both would get the joke.
I understand and appreciate what you are saying, however, this could have just been a joke out of the blue, made by a nervous man to break the ice, too, just the same.

There is no "mystery" -- the image in my original post mirrors what Clyde looked like, the comments and the interaction are exactly what you would expect of the two gentlemen. My goodness, we need more than 6 pages to get this clear?
Well, we do obviously and here's why. It has been suggested McPhatter's window and daughter were contacted through one of the FECC members, where it was indicated, both said it was not McPhatter (Father & Husband). Marty Lacker did say he believed it was McPhatter and through Lacker, we heard from Lamar Fike, who agreed with Lacker. However, what I am surprised about, is you believe Lacker for this revelation, but not for his Rex Foxx Suggestion, that he was a invited guest at Elvis' wedding.
So to satisfy every one concerned, I continued to follow through with asking others who were there that night, like Sonny West and George Klein. Jimmy Velvet was a bonus, since he met McPhatter and suggested they were friend's, who stayed intouch with each other over the year's.
I contacted these people for one reason and one reason only, which was to gain the truth, if it could be found. This for me, is not a matter of who is right or wrong and it shouldn't be that way for you either, nor should it be that way, for anyone else. This is a quest that need's to be solved, 100%. If it can be, to everyone's satisfaction.


I'm quite happy to stand with Ernst Jorgensen, Marty Lacker and Lamar Fike as noting that the man we see is the great R&B singer, Clyde McPhatter.

This is nice to know and if the suggestion would have been done in private to begin with the opinion could be all your own, however, as explained above, there is still doubt. Maybe not at your end, but there is still doubt at my end and few other's, for the reasons explained.
Like I indicated, this is not being done to undermind what you have suggested. You infact, could still be right and if you are..... great ! If your not , it is what it is. It is then time to move on to something else.
I will say that, I think if EPE is willing to help....this could be the key, which could open the door either way.
I want to still try to get in touch with Esposito as back up, as I feel, if anyone would know, it would be him, as I would like to believe it was probably his responsibility to do the inviting to this August 10th 1970 party.

PEP 8)

Re: Clyde McPhatter Says Hello -> August 1970

Wed Aug 19, 2009 12:20 pm

quote PEP "I want to still try to get in touch with Esposito as back up".

Onya mate. Good idea !!!

Re: Clyde McPhatter Says Hello -> August 1970

Mon Aug 24, 2009 10:39 am

Seeking the advice of Joe Esposito is a waste of time. A review of his many publications -- or website -- shows how factual details of the Presley career are elusive, erroneous or nonexistent. The same goes for unreliable associates like George Klein.

This topic was created in June 2008 with the sheer joy of discovering something new about Elvis and one of his true heroes. I soon took the time to add many more accurate details of the McPhatter-Presley connection.

It was subsequently turned into something ugly five months after that, and here some are in August 2009, still grinding bootheels into a topic that should have long been filed away as "totally cool -- thanks."

Some of you really are sad.
Last edited by drjohncarpenter on Mon Aug 24, 2009 11:10 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Re: Clyde McPhatter Says Hello -> August 1970

Mon Aug 24, 2009 11:25 am

:shock: when i listened on the 'wonder of you' FTD i just accepted it as an Elvis introduction of a great man. nothing more or less!~ :roll:

Re: Clyde McPhatter Says Hello -> August 1970

Mon Aug 24, 2009 11:30 am

YDKM wrote::shock: when i listened on the 'wonder of you' FTD i just accepted it as an Elvis introduction of a great man. nothing more or less!~ :roll:

He introduces McPhatter on this FTD?

Re: Clyde McPhatter Says Hello -> August 1970

Mon Aug 24, 2009 12:35 pm

drjohncarpenter wrote:Seeking the advise of Joe Esposito is a waste of time. A review of his many publications -- or website -- shows how factual details of the Presley career are elusive, erroneous or nonexistent. The same goes for unreliable associates like George Klein.

This topic was created in June 2008 with the sheer joy of discovering something new about Elvis and one of his true heroes. I soon took the time to add many more accurate details of the McPhatter-Presley connection.

It was subsequently turned into something ugly five months after that, and here some are in August 2009, still grinding bootheels into a topic that should have long been filed away as "totally cool -- thanks."

Some of you really are sad.


Oh dear. :(
This is a forum for discussion. Anyone posting here has to accept that whatever "facts" they state or pronouncements they deliver are likely to be challenged and debated. That's healthy, not sad. Don't take it as a personal affront. Some of the most interesting and valuable threads on FECC have developed in this way.

Re: Clyde McPhatter Says Hello -> August 1970

Mon Aug 24, 2009 11:05 pm

drjohncarpenter wrote:Seeking the advise of Joe Esposito is a waste of time.
Sorry, in this case I disagree...Esposito's memory may not be the best at time's, however, since there is a picture to show Esposito, this may click with him easier, since he was there.
A review of his many publications -- or website -- shows how factual details of the Presley career are elusive, erroneous or nonexistent. The same goes for unreliable associates like George Klein.
With respect to George Klein, I think the same hold's true here and did........
Take note, it is a alway's easier for a person to go back in One's memory, when they have something tanigible in front of them to look at, to jar the memory.
Just a thought Doc,...what would you say if Esposito came back and said , "Yep that's McPhatter" are you trying to say that you would not believe him??? :roll:


This topic was created in June 2008 with the sheer joy of discovering something new about Elvis and one of his true heroes. I soon took the time to add many more accurate details of the McPhatter-Presley connection.

It was subsequently turned into something ugly five months after that, and here some are in August 2009, still grinding bootheels into a topic that should have long been filed away as "totally cool -- thanks."
Doc I am a little disappointed with your reaction, I thought you were all about truth and coming up with fact's and the right answer to satisfy all.....are you not? As I alway's got the feeling, this is what you have been trying to get out of members for years, which I thought was always a good thing.....as the ones who you confront head to head with where you feel they have not come forth with enough proof, you basically make them by default, go that extra mile, instead of just leaving them come up with something out of the blue without facts to back up what they say....yet, here you are putting me down or anyone who has tried to debate or to show there is doubt with good reason.
I am not trying to add flame to members who do not care for you on FECC or ex members else were, who just hate you, no matter what you say or do....
This is not what this is about, and you should be man enough to have this go through all the way, whether you are right or wrong.

Wouldn't you rather have everyone agreeing with you, that you were right, all along for the right reason's?? My reason's to continue to find the truth in this case was to help end this the right way.....I was hopeing, Sonny West and GK or anyone else that I asked if this man was McPhatter, would automatically come back and say..."yea, that in fact, is McPhatter in the picture", well, the fact is, it didn't turn out that way.......to even my surprise, as I thought for sure, Sonny West was going to at least say, "yep that's McPhatter"........it wasn't until speaking to Jimmy Velvet, that I knew for sure, there was something more here, because of his reaction that he was so sure it was not McPhatter and he said this without hesitation by the way. Once I found out he knew McPhatter personally and had indeed met him personally....he offered much. whether you like his answer or not....at this point, I just want to find out who this person really is, one way or another. If for nothing else, for the joy of it.



Some of you really are sad.

You know what,.......in my opinion you should retract that...and apologize..
The Purple Gang said it the way it is...and what i believe FECC is and should be about..
The Purple Gang wrote: :(
This is a forum for discussion. Anyone posting here has to accept that whatever "facts" they state or pronouncements they deliver are likely to be challenged and debated. That's healthy, not sad. Don't take it as a personal affront. Some of the most interesting and valuable threads on FECC have developed in this way.

PEP 8)

Re: Clyde McPhatter Says Hello -> August 1970

Mon Aug 24, 2009 11:24 pm

PEP wrote:...what would you say if Esposito came back and said , "Yep that's McPhatter" are you trying to say that you would not believe him???

Whatever "Diamond Joe" adds to the mix will not be credible either way, that is my point. The same goes for Klein. They have offered fans a lot of erroneous information for over 30 years -- now they are very old, why would they suddenly become pillars of integrity?

People who "were there" during the Beatles active period, George Martin and Paul McCartney, have both been very candid about how aware they are that there are historians and scholars who know more about what happened at that time than they do! It's just the nature of the game. Elvis is no different.

PEP wrote:...yet, here you are putting me down or anyone who has tried to debate or to show there is doubt with good reason.

Not at all.

First off, my comments about Esposito and Klein are simply factual statements regarding their accuracy. There is no put down intended.

Certainly, you are well aware of certain people and their hateful agendas. If you carefully review what has been posted previously, these people added comments strictly to cause trouble, NOT to engender a discussion.

And that is sad. Period.

Re: Clyde McPhatter Says Hello -> August 1970

Mon Aug 24, 2009 11:51 pm

THEMEMPHISFAN wrote:Could it be Shemp Howard with a fantastic tan?
No, wait a minute ...... it can't be! Shemp died in 1955.

Seriously, I'm no expert but it sure looks like Clyde to me.

THEMEMPHISFAN


It looks like it to me too TMF. I wouldn't like to think I was up in front of an identity parade with you lot :lol:

Re: Clyde McPhatter Says Hello -> August 1970

Mon Aug 24, 2009 11:56 pm

THEMEMPHISFAN wrote:Seriously, I'm no expert but it sure looks like Clyde to me.

Thanks.

Before I closely scrutinized the mutual dialogue, Elvis' body language and McPhatter's status as an artist in August 1970, I was struck by the amazing number of similarities in the man's facial features to those of Clyde McPhatter.

The eyes, the nose, the smile, even the hairline match the 1970 Decca album cover photo, which had to have been taken very close to the time of the after party visit.

Coupled with everything else I noted, it seems insane so much debate continues on this.

We had a similar spate of confusion in identifying another African American man seen with Elvis in 1966. Some forum members simply have no acuity when it comes to such evaluations.

For Blues Fans Only => Who Is This Man?
http://www.elvis-collectors.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=29&t=25062

Re: Clyde McPhatter Says Hello -> August 1970

Tue Aug 25, 2009 12:07 am

drjohncarpenter wrote:
PEP wrote:...what would you say if Esposito came back and said , "Yep that's McPhatter" are you trying to say that you would not believe him???

Whatever "Diamond Joe" adds to the mix will not be credible either way, that is my point. The same goes for Klein. They have offered fans a lot of erroneous information for over 30 years -- now they are very old, why would they suddenly become pillars of integrity?

People who "were there" during the Beatles active period, George Martin and Paul McCartney, have both been very candid about how aware they are that there are historians and scholars who know more about what happened at that time than they do! It's just the nature of the game. Elvis is no different.

PEP wrote:...yet, here you are putting me down or anyone who has tried to debate or to show there is doubt with good reason.

Not at all.

First off, my comments about Esposito and Klein are simply factual statements regarding their accuracy. There is no put down intended.
Fair enough
Certainly, you are well aware of certain people and their hateful agendas. If you carefully review what has been posted previously, these people added comments strictly to cause trouble, NOT to engender a discussion.

And that is sad. Period.

When anyone's motive is only to stirr trouble it is sad...
this I agree with...

My motive here, was and is, to try to get to the truth, because of the doubt......I hope you believe that..

PEP 8)

Re: Clyde McPhatter Says Hello -> August 1970

Tue Aug 25, 2009 12:15 am

PEP - your intentions are above reproach, always.

Re: Clyde McPhatter Says Hello -> August 1970

Tue Aug 25, 2009 12:54 am

THEMEMPHISFAN wrote:Doc, So we still don't know who the mystery man is in the 1966 photo? Sorry if I missed something.

No.

With my careful guidance, and the help of many good forum members, the man was determined to be one of Jackie Wilson's bodyguard/minders, August Simms.

Check out the topic!

Re: Clyde McPhatter Says Hello -> August 1970

Thu Aug 27, 2009 12:47 am

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Last edited by kevinstevenage on Mon Oct 05, 2009 6:01 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Re: Clyde McPhatter Says Hello -> August 1970

Thu Aug 27, 2009 1:54 am

kevinstevenage wrote:I think this is a great thread and very interesting. It is not Clyde McPhatter with Elvis in my opinion. Anyway here are two images of Clyde if this helps one way or another I dont know.


i do not think it is clyde either

it is far from proved imo - the resemblance is hardly conclusive - not a tall

Re: Clyde McPhatter Says Hello -> August 1970

Thu Aug 27, 2009 1:58 am

must be someone who is a performer as i note the audio "all my moves" bit

Re: Clyde McPhatter Says Hello -> August 1970

Thu Aug 27, 2009 2:01 am

GERRY wrote:must be someone who is a performer as i note the audio "all my moves" bit


yes of course

Re: Clyde McPhatter Says Hello -> August 1970

Thu Aug 27, 2009 2:06 am

It's been an incredible thread, regardless! Thanks to all of involved as we go about getting verification on whether this is the great Clyde McPhatter or not!

Re: Clyde McPhatter Says Hello -> August 1970

Thu Aug 27, 2009 3:24 am

Joe Car wrote:It's been an incredible thread, regardless!!

Thank you so VERY much, Joe.

Re: Clyde McPhatter Says Hello -> August 1970

Thu Aug 27, 2009 3:33 am

kevinstevenage wrote:I think this is a great thread and very interesting. It is not Clyde McPhatter with Elvis in my opinion. Anyway here are two images of Clyde if this helps one way or another I dont know.

Kevin, where have you been? Those are great photos.

Do you know exactly when or where they were taken?

kevinstevenage wrote:There is in my opinion absolutely no resemblance to the gentleman standing next to Elvis.

Actually the many similarities remain quite evident, but your photos are actually the first piece of evidence I have seen that throws some doubt onto this subject.

It still boils down to two questions:

(1) Is that Clyde McPhatter?
(2) If not, who in God's name is it??

Re: Clyde McPhatter Says Hello -> August 1970

Thu Aug 27, 2009 3:13 pm

:lol: well i tell you what i have listened to 4 versions of this show and without any doubt this FTD is the BEST 1970's show i have heard for the sound mix- EVERY TRACK sounds brilliant here and would turn a non fan into an Elvis Fan because this releasze is such an enjoyable CD! :roll: