Re: Clyde McPhatter Says Hello -> August 1970

Thu Dec 11, 2008 3:30 am

The moral to all this is - you best not go to the spouses or widows of deceased entertainers in order to verify pictures or articles, as you never know what else - in Aug 1970 - Clyde may have been doing at Las Vegas. Seems rather mysterious that he would go to Vegas to an EP show and to not be accompanied by his loyal wife. Best to leave this alone my friend AYE :roll:

That's all.

P.S. Black: Did you ever hear of the saying "flogging a dead horse?".

Re: Clyde McPhatter Says Hello -> August 1970

Thu Dec 11, 2008 3:42 am

walter hale wrote:Did you ever hear of the saying "flogging a dead horse?".

It's quite obvious some of our other major posters on this forum haven't heard that saying!

But that's another subject :wink:

Re: Clyde McPhatter Says Hello -> August 1970

Thu Dec 11, 2008 3:55 am

Keith F, :smt006


What's your summary of this now? Can we conclude it is McPhatter!

You reckon Black will concede or will perhaps comeback with something to convince
the folks that IT's NOT McPHATTER :!: One could say DoctorJohn's got the smoking gun.

Re: Clyde McPhatter Says Hello -> August 1970

Thu Dec 11, 2008 10:11 am

I would like to intervene again and point out even tho Marty Lacker and Lamar Fike have suggested that the person in questioned is Clyde McPhatter. I still think it is important to hear from Sonny West, Joe Esposito and George Klein, plus it will help to still have the people from the original Drifters website do a follow up on my latest email to them.
Because here's the deal, if you noticed they appear to have their doubts that it was McPhatter, they were however very sure that it was not Bill Pinkney.
With respect to their doubts, I am hoping one of two things will happen, either they will come back and say 'Yes" the people they spoke to agree that it is McPatter without a doubt or that they come back and say "No" it's not him, but here is who it is and be able to point us then in the right direction through a website and more pictures to prove at their end who they know it is.
I'm going to try another Drifters website and see what they have to say.
I should point out, since there still appears to be some doubt, there needs to be a absolute here, where there is No doubt who this person is.
This exercise I would like to point out is not to make one person right over another. This exercise is being done to gain the truth and have everyone comfortable what the right answer is for both sides of the fence.
PEP 8)

Re: Clyde McPhatter Says Hello -> August 1970

Thu Dec 11, 2008 3:00 pm

drjohncarpenter wrote:
tcb4 wrote:And SUN Studios founder and producer Sam Phillips weighs in ->

You remember Clyde McPhatter?

Elvis thought Clyde McPhatter had one of the greatest voices in the world.

We were going somewhere one time - down to the Louisiana Hayride or to Nashville - and we were singing in the car. Well, Bill Black couldn't carry a tune in a bucket, and Scotty was worse. So Elvis and I were the only good singers in the car.

But we were talking about Clyde McPhatter, and he said, "You know, if I had a voice like that man, I'd never want for another thing."

http://www.elvis.com.au/presley/a_broken_heart.shtml



To those who trusted the doc -- like Ernst Jorgensen -- give yourself a pat on the back.

PEP and tcb4 -- I appreciate your work underscoring what I first posted on June 20, 2008.

Sorry but that quote from Sam Phillips talking about the mid-fifties is no evidence that Clyde was at the party in 1970. No one here has said that Elvis wasn't a fan of Clyde's voice or didn't know who he was. The only disagreement is if that is or isn't Clyde seen in that clip telling Elvis 'You did all my moves'.

The reminiscence of Marty Lacker is definitely valuable testimony. But it's too early to dismiss what Chris Black has brought to the debate. Likewise the opinion offered by the Drifters fan site as posted by PEP.

This intriguing little puzzle in the Elvis story should be allowed to run a little longer. :)

Re: Clyde McPhatter Says Hello -> August 1970

Thu Dec 11, 2008 3:21 pm

The Purple Gang wrote: [it's too early to dismiss what Chris Black has brought to the debate.


Not for some, evidently.

Re: Clyde McPhatter Says Hello -> August 1970

Thu Dec 11, 2008 10:29 pm

walter hale wrote:Did you ever hear of the saying "flogging a dead horse?".


I have !

And I know what you're getting at, but all the while people who were there are saying something quite at odds with what Clyde's own widow is saying, then this particular horse is still alive & kicking !

Re: Clyde McPhatter Says Hello -> August 1970

Thu Dec 11, 2008 10:36 pm

Hey PEP : :smt006

My friend I hear what you say but by the same token, to reiterate Marty Lacker's statement: "Sometimes husbands don't tell wives what they did, especially in Vegas", is also rather significant.

Suppose Clyde was also in Vegas for another purpose? Then It would be most sad and hurtful for his widow if that came to light. My friend, Marty's statement is good enough for me and skeptics such as Black should leave it alone.

Re: Clyde McPhatter Says Hello -> August 1970

Thu Dec 11, 2008 10:50 pm

walter hale wrote:Hey PEP : :smt006
My friend I hear what you say but by the same token, to reiterate Marty Lacker's statement: "Sometimes husbands don't tell wives what they did, especially in Vegas", is also rather significant.
Suppose Clyde was also in Vegas for another purpose? Then It would be most sad and hurtful for his widow if that came to light. My friend, Marty's statement is good enough for me and skeptics such as Black should leave it alone.


You're in Las Vegas for some unspecified purpose.

Your wife doesn't know about your visit there because you don't want her to.

Would you attend a party that's being filmed for theatrical release and chat 'on camera' ?

Well, it's possible, but I'm not convinced either way on this yet.

As PEP says, let's wait until all the evidence is in.

Re: Clyde McPhatter Says Hello -> August 1970

Thu Dec 11, 2008 11:00 pm

But McPhatter would have no way of knowing the camera's would be there would he?

OK let's what for the response from the other MM. But do not be suprised if it opens up another can or worms!

Re: Clyde McPhatter Says Hello -> August 1970

Fri Dec 12, 2008 2:14 am

Does he show up anywhere else on the TTWII movie? In the audience, in the background somewhere else? Anyone checked?

Re: Clyde McPhatter Says Hello -> August 1970

Fri Dec 12, 2008 2:34 am

speedoo wrote:Does he show up anywhere else on the TTWII movie? In the audience, in the background somewhere else? Anyone checked?


Oh, there's a very quick shot of him sitting at a table with a sign on it saying 'reserved for Clyde McPhatter' , but you'll miss it if you blink...............................

Re: Clyde McPhatter Says Hello -> August 1970

Fri Dec 12, 2008 2:43 am

ColinB wrote:
speedoo wrote:Does he show up anywhere else on the TTWII movie? In the audience, in the background somewhere else? Anyone checked?


Oh, there's a very quick shot of him sitting at a table with a sign on it saying 'reserved for Clyde McPhatter' , but you'll miss it if you blink...............................


Nah, couldn't be. His wife might have spotted it and 38 years later all hell could have broke loose.

Re: Clyde McPhatter Says Hello -> August 1970

Fri Dec 12, 2008 5:32 am

ColinB wrote:all the while people who were there are saying something quite at odds with what Clyde's own widow is saying


That's the conflict.

Widow saying it's not her husband in the pic; people who were there saying it was.

Assuming the info Chris has provided is authentic, how could a woman not recognise her own husband in what is rather a clear picture?

Re: Clyde McPhatter Says Hello -> August 1970

Fri Dec 12, 2008 7:08 pm

Jumpsuit Junkie wrote:
Scott wrote:
ColinB wrote:all the while people who were there are saying something quite at odds with what Clyde's own widow is saying
That's the conflict.
Widow saying it's not her husband in the pic; people who were there saying it was.
Assuming the info Chris has provided is authentic, how could a woman not recognise her own husband in what is rather a clear picture?
Agreed Scott. I think maybe if she says its not Clyde then I would think it isn't. :?


I'm not sure.

Has she seen the photo and said 'that's not Clyde'.

Or has she simply said 'no photo with Elvis is possible because they never met'

There's a big difference !

Re: Clyde McPhatter Says Hello -> August 1970

Fri Dec 12, 2008 7:23 pm

I am sure Chris B will have emailed the photo.

This being the case, it would seem unlikely that she is wrong IMO.

Still an interesting "detective" like thread !!

Re: Clyde McPhatter Says Hello -> August 1970

Fri Dec 12, 2008 9:34 pm

BIGREDG wrote:I am sure Chris B will have emailed the photo.

This being the case, it would seem unlikely that she is wrong IMO.

Still an interesting "detective" like thread !!


Well, we only have Chris's word on this.

I would have thought more reliable info is needed from Clyde's widow besides just the word of a member.

Re: Clyde McPhatter Says Hello -> August 1970

Fri Dec 12, 2008 9:44 pm

BIGREDG wrote:I am sure Chris B will have emailed the photo.

This being the case, it would seem unlikely that she is wrong IMO.

Still an interesting "detective" like thread !!


Well Chris said "I've [b]spoken to Clyde McPhatter's widow, Lee Rackley, and she's looked at the screen grab I sent her"[/b]

Now if he sent it, presumably it was by email so why can't the good lady reply by email? Or maybe Chris could point her to this very web site and she can tell us directly. Hmmm!

Re: Clyde McPhatter Says Hello -> August 1970

Sat Dec 13, 2008 2:39 pm

Hi Speedoo. I don't think there's any mystery:
Chris Black wrote: I didn't get an e-mail from Lee, I spoke to her on the phone after I sent the screen grab to her daughter.

So, presumably, the lady herself is not online. Personally, I wouldn't encourage her to subject herself to open questioning on an Elvis website. I think this goes for any 'witness'. It's fairer if there's an intermediary acting on their behalf. As we know, things can sometimes get a little lively here in the heat of the moment. :)
ColinB wrote:Has she seen the photo and said 'that's not Clyde'.

Yes, and then she said Clyde told her he never met Elvis. And that's two reasons why this topic still remains open for me.

Re: Clyde McPhatter Says Hello -> August 1970

Sat Dec 13, 2008 3:36 pm

The Purple Gang wrote:Hi Speedoo. I don't think there's any mystery:
Chris Black wrote: I didn't get an e-mail from Lee, I spoke to her on the phone after I sent the screen grab to her daughter.

So, presumably, the lady herself is not online. Personally, I wouldn't encourage her to subject herself to open questioning on an Elvis website. I think this goes for any 'witness'. It's fairer if there's an intermediary acting on their behalf. As we know, things can sometimes get a little lively here in the heat of the moment. :)


You're right of course. I guess it's going to be hard to resolve this unless we get someone in the know to corroborate it one way or the other. An email from the daughter would have been good, but some may say that could have been fixed.

We need it from the horses mouth but the horses ain't talking.

Re: Clyde McPhatter Says Hello -> August 1970

Sat Dec 13, 2008 3:54 pm

Speedoo wrote:We need it from the horses mouth but the horses ain't talking.


The lead horses are long gone...................

Re: Clyde McPhatter Says Hello -> August 1970

Sat Dec 13, 2008 4:01 pm

ColinB wrote:
Speedoo wrote:We need it from the horses mouth but the horses ain't talking.


The lead horses are long gone...................


Certainly one of them has. We don't yet know who the other horse is, or do we?

Re: Clyde McPhatter Says Hello -> August 1970

Tue Aug 18, 2009 10:49 am

I am back from Memphis and Elvis week, where, while I was down there, I just had to continue to do a follow up, on the debate, as to whether or not Clyde McPhatter is the person, seen talking to Elvis, on August 10th 1970, at the after party, filmed by MGM, at the International Hotel in Las Vegas.
I took along a copy of this picture, seen below.
Image
I showed the picture, first to George Klein, then Sonny West and finally Jimmy Velvet. I was not able to show the picture to Joe Esposito, as I do not believe he was in Memphis during this year's Elvis week. I showed the picture to a few hardcore Elvis fans as well. All did not think it was McPhatter by the way, tho none really knew who it might be either. One did suggest a name, where I did do a follow up, but, I came up empty.
So, anyway here's the scoop so far.
Hooked up with George Klein on August 14th where his first reaction, was that it was not McPhatter, he stuck with that reaction the next day, when I got to hook up with him again, where he really was able to study the picture. He did not however, have a suggestion who it might be.
When I got to meet Sonny West briefly, his first reaction was, he did not think it was Clyde McPhatter, where he stuck with that and also mentioned, he did not remember Elvis ever really talking about McPhatter, nor did he think Elvis ever met him personally as far as he could remember. Sonny had No suggestions who it might be either, other than thinking, maybe it was one of the friends of the Sweets maybe.
While I was in Memphis, I even asked a few EPE employee's and one EPE supervisor , who suggested, I should get intouch with EPE's Archive's department directly, as the supervisor felt they would have a list who attended the August 10th 1970 party in their archives.
So, that's what I will do in the next few day's and see if EPE is willing to help.
So ther ya go, this is where it ends for now, except I should also mention I also hooked up with a true Legend...Mr Jimmy Velvet on the 16th, where I ended up having breakfast with him, along with my friend, Brian B from New York......I showed Jimmy the picture during our breakfast, his first reaction, was that it definitly was not McPhatter, as he quickly said, he was a personal friend of McPhatter's. Jimmy then went out of his way, to go back to his room, to show me a picture of McPhatter and him pictured together, where he ended up, not just showing me the picture, but giving it to me.
That was so cool and really nice of him......sadly, I forgot to get him to autograph the picture for me, oh well, next year......LOL
Image
Jimmy did mention he thought he had seen the person in questioned before, but, for the life of him, he could not come up with the name.......trust me tho, if it does come to him, he'll know.
Now, this is where I just have to mention Jimmy Velvet's book again, just as I did last year.
If you do not have his book yet, you just have to have it, it is friggin amazing !!!
The entertainers Jimmy has met and is seen pictured with, over the year's, from the 50's, right up to present day, is just too hard to pass up. This is not a book you will hide away, it's a book your going keep coming back to see what you have missed. The pictures are truly amazing !!
Don't delay, as I doubt this book will be reprinted.
Once they are gone, they are gone.
http://www.insidethedream.net/page/page/4631967.htm
By the way, anyone interested in booking Jimmy Velvet for a book signing tour, do it now !!!
I personally think he would be Hot property in the European market.

The stories and the memories he can share, are second to none. Not only would you get the Elvis stories and memories, first hand from this true Legend. But, you would also get to hear the memories and the stories of so many other entertainers he has met over the year's.

In the mean time, don't forget to order Jimmy Velvet's book "Inside A Dream", you will not be sorry !!!.
It is only $45.00US plus shipping, which is a steal.
You can order the book directly from this website,
.http://www.insidethedream.net/page/page/4824821.htm
Image
Sorry Doc, thing's aren't looking too promising that the person in question, is McPhatter.
Nevertheless, this mystery has to be solved, one way or another.

PEP 8)

Re: Clyde McPhatter Says Hello -> August 1970

Tue Aug 18, 2009 11:05 am

That's our PEP. :smt006 He won't leave no stone unturned.

Guess this now puts Mr. Black :smt006 back in the ball game AYE.
Now then Did Velvet say where abouts (as in what locality) he may have seen the mysterious man before (or after) or approximately when?

One other question My friend: It still might be worthwhile showing the pics to Esposito who could have seen this gentleman elsewhere. You never know.

ONYA PEP.....again!!!!

Re: Clyde McPhatter Says Hello -> August 1970

Tue Aug 18, 2009 11:24 am

PEP wrote:Sorry Doc, thing's aren't looking too promising that the person in question, is McPhatter.

Unfortunately, the image you took along to Memphis (1) was much too busy for anyone to make a qualified judgement, and (2) wrongly identified some of the shots as McPhatter, when they were other party guests.

However ...

It's not just the images which are key, but the interaction we see and hear with Elvis. He appears to be more than a little daunted chatting with McPhatter -- and no wonder, Clyde was a huge hero. More importantly, McPhatter is the only one who could have made that "moves" comment to Elvis where both would get the joke.

There is no "mystery" -- the image in my original post mirrors what Clyde looked like, the comments and the interaction are exactly what you would expect of the two gentlemen. My goodness, we need more than 6 pages to get this clear?

I'm quite happy to stand with Ernst Jorgensen, Marty Lacker and Lamar Fike as noting that the man we see is the great R&B singer, Clyde McPhatter.