T-T-Talkin' About My Generation X --> 6-19-1977

Wed Jul 27, 2011 5:39 am

Someone recently posted a thrilling, early live clip of the Jam here:


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The Jam, "In the City" (Manchester, UK - Sunday, June 19, 1977)
"So It Goes," Series 2, Granada TV - broadcast Sunday, November 20, 1977.
Notice TV host Tony Wilson, and guest Poly Styrene, as the segment is introduced.
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Through the years I've been ambivalent about the Jam, but when I see something like this it's clear they had something special going. Who-like approach, but better looking, lots of punk energy with pop panache. Paul Weller and company made some very good records. "Thick As Thieves" is a personal fave.

The clip is fantastic, capturing the feeling of seeing them in a small club. How many of you notice it's from the Electric Circus in Manchester? Many great bands got their start in this venue. For example, Warsaw did their first gig there on 5-29-1977. They would soon become the now-legendary Joy Division. The Jam performance is from the same location just three weeks later, on 6-19-1977.

The date is both auspicious and ironic. Someone else was working that Sunday:


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Elvis Presley, "Are You Lonesome To-night?" (Omaha, NE - Sunday, June 19, 1977)
Taped for CBS-TV's "Elvis in Concert - broadcast Monday, October 3, 1977 (not used).
Notice Charlie Hodge holding the mic and doing a bit of the "swishy" routine.



Nowhere is the changing of the guard, and the clash of generations, more evident than in these two pieces of footage, shot on the very same day.

Re: T-T-Talkin' About My Generation X --> 6-19-1977

Wed Jul 27, 2011 7:32 am

Meh. Given the choice I still would have opted to see Elvis. Even at his worst.

I can still get my fill of great live punk-rock acts, most of whom I consider better than The Jam, at Gonerfest in Memphis. It's the difference between meeting Ali on his worst day or Mike Tyson on his best, I'd still rather meet Ali.

Not that I don't appreciate what the younger generation was laying down in 1977. The flame of punk and garage rock still burns brightly in acts like The Oblivians, Night Beats, Ty Segall, and John Wesley Coleman. After being bombarded with the Top 40 from my co-worker's radio, it's nice to drop a needle on a record from Goner or Trouble In Mind and know that rock hasn't yet been entirely reduced to a commodity.

Re: T-T-Talkin' About My Generation X --> 6-19-1977

Wed Jul 27, 2011 7:57 am

Why is this in the All Elvis section? Oh, I see. Another occasion for a gratuitous gibe at EIC. Ho hum.

Re: T-T-Talkin' About My Generation X --> 6-19-1977

Wed Jul 27, 2011 8:01 am

Two nights later on June 21, 1977 when Elvis was attempting to salvage the EIC filming in Rapid City, Led Zeppelin unleashed what many Zeppelin aficionados consider one of the band's most legendary gigs at the L.A. Forum, known to many as Listen To This Eddie.

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What a contrast:
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Last edited by midnightx on Wed Jul 27, 2011 9:35 am, edited 1 time in total.

Re: T-T-Talkin' About My Generation X --> 6-19-1977

Wed Jul 27, 2011 8:19 am

Mister Mike wrote:Why is this in the All Elvis section? Oh, I see. Another occasion for a gratuitous gibe at EIC. Ho hum.
+1

Oh look, it's the anti-EIC folks fueling the fire for comments from the other half! Like I have said before those against it are the ones making such a big deal out of it. The immaturity continues.

Re: T-T-Talkin' About My Generation X --> 6-19-1977

Wed Jul 27, 2011 8:27 am

I hope you realize that you're comparing oil and milk. Elvis came from a completely different time and he was among those paving the way for people after. Music wouldn't have turned out the way it did without the people who came before. I highly doubt that Elvis liked punk music, pretty much for the same reason some people can't stand rap, heavy metal, country, opera, pop or techno music. You can't compare one person's interest to another person's interest and you can't compare two completely different genres.

Re: T-T-Talkin' About My Generation X --> 6-19-1977

Wed Jul 27, 2011 9:10 am

Elvisfan10 wrote:I hope you realize that you're comparing oil and milk. Elvis came from a completely different time and he was among those paving the way for people after. Music wouldn't have turned out the way it did without the people who came before. I highly doubt that Elvis liked punk music, pretty much for the same reason some people can't stand rap, heavy metal, country, opera, pop or techno music. You can't compare one person's interest to another person's interest and you can't compare two completely different genres.


BRAVO!! ::rocks

Re: T-T-Talkin' About My Generation X --> 6-19-1977

Wed Jul 27, 2011 9:13 am

Some of you are taking the Doc's post way too literal.

Besides the only commonality between the two being the dates of the performances, the only comparison being made between these two artists were their position musically in correlation to each other. Not the actual genre or style of music but their principles and musical beliefs as each saw them at the time.

While The Jam (or Zeppelin...or anyone other band you'd like to insert here) were out there doing their thing, doing something new, fresh and more importantly: true to their musical beliefs, here was Elvis singing an Olivia Newton John song---miles away from the original vision he set out for himself.

This comparison is also a painful reminder just how misplaced Elvis' live set was. Some of that stuff--including "If You Love Me, Let Me Know---have not aged well at all. Just because Elvis sang them---doesn't neccessarily mean they're classics.

Re: T-T-Talkin' About My Generation X --> 6-19-1977

Wed Jul 27, 2011 6:23 pm

The Jam were an incredible band, whose contributions to British music were massive -- their songs were well-written, played with vigour and sung with zest, dynamism and aplomb by the great Paul Weller. Part of their broad appeal came from a fusion of styles, with a rare musical intelligence and maturity for a young band . . . Weller was/is a student of all things music, and his passion remains infectious.

30-odd years later, the Mod Father sits near the apex of great British artists of any generation. His creativity and musicality ever-sharp, and as a live performer, he's still one of the best. I actually see similarities between Weller and Springsteen in a lot of ways . . .

But also, go back and listen again to The Style Council - Weller's post-Jam band - who were just wonderful and whose success in the US eclipsed that of the Jam. You're the Best Thing is one of the finest pop/soul songs to ever come out of the UK, whilst, as a solo artist, Stanley Road is, surely, one of the best albums of the past 30 years?! And his last album - Wake Up the Nation - is almost on a par!!! But those recordings with The Jam -- Going Underground, That's Entertainment, In the City, News of the World, Eton Rifles, Town Called Malice and Beat Surrender put them at the apex; and for good reason . . . It didn't get any better than this!

With regards to 1977, Elvis at his lowest ebb and a new flux of sensational bands making a name for themeslves -- the contrast is quite stark. But would such be any different no matter whom we compare the last of Elvis to?! There was barely a glimmer. Yet, 20 years prior, it was Elvis who sparkled and shone -- glowed, in fact; his music sensational, vibrant and resonating powerfully with each new recording. A great innovator, and a pivotal artist, whose ultimate demise and implosion came at a time when his credibility was under severe strain -- but so was much of the pop music scene. Bands like The Clash, The Sex Pistols and The Jam injecting some life, passion and creativity into an era of music that boasted dirge and novelty almost as standard; even the leading music programmes, like Top of the Pops, were reduced to being an embarassment. And Elvis -- killing himself through the fetters of his lifestyle, but murdering his own credibility amidst abject dirge, regular indifference and bellowing in spleen-splitting fashion, just because he could . . . That's Entertainment?! Not for me . . . That's tragic!

Re: T-T-Talkin' About My Generation X --> 6-19-1977

Wed Jul 27, 2011 8:06 pm

IMETJB wrote:Some of you are taking the Doc's post way too literal.
Of all of Elvis' performances, 1977 had to be the one to get thrown to the lions. Of course people are going to take the post to be literal.

IMETJB wrote:While The Jam (or Zeppelin...or anyone other band you'd like to insert here) were out there doing their thing, doing something new, fresh and more importantly: true to their musical beliefs, here was Elvis singing an Olivia Newton John song---miles away from the original vision he set out for himself.
And you know what Elvis' vision was how? What, did he tell you in a dream or did you read second and third hand information from books? Elvis liked all kinds of music and he didn't want to stick to just one style, which is something he has said in interviews numerous times through out his life. He sang more than one song by Olivia Newton-John so that must mean that he liked her music. That WAS apart of his musical belief, just like in his Army days when he had records of completely different music genres just to mature his vocal skills.

Re: T-T-Talkin' About My Generation X --> 6-19-1977

Wed Jul 27, 2011 8:28 pm

Dont you love it how they run in packs to kick the dirt into elvis face every time, so by 77 what did yous want elvis to be doing! reinventing R&R?..no matter what shape or voice elvis was in there was always going to be anew generation & movement in the music world.

Re: T-T-Talkin' About My Generation X --> 6-19-1977

Wed Jul 27, 2011 8:31 pm

And after elvis died we had the revolution of the punks... lol

Re: T-T-Talkin' About My Generation X --> 6-19-1977

Wed Jul 27, 2011 8:51 pm

rizzy56 wrote:Dont you love it how they run in packs to kick the dirt into elvis face every time, so by 77 what did yous want elvis to be doing! reinventing R&R?..no matter what shape or voice elvis was in there was always going to be anew generation & movement in the music world.

But Elvis didn't need to look like a washed-up hack. He could have continued to develop his own craft and push creative boundaries of his own.

Re: T-T-Talkin' About My Generation X --> 6-19-1977

Wed Jul 27, 2011 9:06 pm

midnightx wrote:
rizzy56 wrote:Dont you love it how they run in packs to kick the dirt into elvis face every time, so by 77 what did yous want elvis to be doing! reinventing R&R?..no matter what shape or voice elvis was in there was always going to be anew generation & movement in the music world.

But Elvis didn't need to look like a washed-up hack. He could have continued to develop his own craft and push creative boundaries of his own.

the only time elvis seem to be less than what he was worth, was when he doing the likes of houndog and co, from 73 onwards.

Re: T-T-Talkin' About My Generation X --> 6-19-1977

Wed Jul 27, 2011 9:08 pm

rizzy56 wrote:
midnightx wrote:
rizzy56 wrote:Dont you love it how they run in packs to kick the dirt into elvis face every time, so by 77 what did yous want elvis to be doing! reinventing R&R?..no matter what shape or voice elvis was in there was always going to be anew generation & movement in the music world.

But Elvis didn't need to look like a washed-up hack. He could have continued to develop his own craft and push creative boundaries of his own.

the only time elvis seem to be less than what he was worth, was when he doing the likes of houndog and co, from 73 onwards.

Yes, the "Amen/Dive-bomb" routines were a revelation.

Re: T-T-Talkin' About My Generation X --> 6-19-1977

Wed Jul 27, 2011 9:09 pm

We talk about how revolutionary Elvis was by comparing him to the standard bearers who were popular at the time. Why is it unfair to compare new, fresh acts to Elvis in 1977, when he was still a top touring act? The dichotomy is similar in both instances...seeing the tired old act contrasted with the fresh new musicians on the scene. Poor Elvis...he may have never been seen as cool by young punk fans when he was in his 40s, even if he hadn't fallen off...afterall, rock and roll is seen as a game for the young, and every generation needs its own heroes. But, as guys like Springsteen, the Stones, McCartney and U2 prove, you can still age gracefully and build on your legacy as an older rock star. Elvis could have had that too...but obviously it didn't turn out that way. I wish it did...he may have given us years of great music had things turned out differently.

Re: T-T-Talkin' About My Generation X --> 6-19-1977

Wed Jul 27, 2011 9:10 pm

-- "And after elvis died we had the revolution of the punks... lol" --

That's wholly incorrect, considering the foremost punk groups of the 1970s had formed prior to 1977 and were already being recognised as new innovators in the music scene. The Sex Pistol's Anarchy in the UK was released in November '76, with Never Mind the Bollocks being in the works prior to August '77, whilst The Clash's White Riot debuted in March of '77 . . .

And no-one has said that Elvis should have been reinventing rock 'n' roll in '77 -- especially when the aforementioned were doing it so well. But here was an artist who had been in neautral for years, disconcerned with the recording process, lacking in any vision and treading the same ground on the concert stage; failing to improve his show or develop his performances, and resting on his laurels despite everything else. What did we want of Elvis by 1977? We wanted him to be fit, healthy, creative and interested in making music of worth and content . . .

Re: T-T-Talkin' About My Generation X --> 6-19-1977

Wed Jul 27, 2011 9:19 pm

greystoke wrote:-- "And after elvis died we had the revolution of the punks... lol" --

That's wholly incorrect, considering the foremost punk groups of the 1970s had formed prior to 1977 and were already being recognised as new innovators in the music scene. The Sex Pistol's Anarchy in the UK was released in November '76, with Never Mind the Bollocks being in the works prior to August '77, whilst The Clash's White Riot debuted in March of '77 . . .

And no-one has said that Elvis should have been reinventing rock 'n' roll in '77 -- especially when the aforementioned were doing it so well. But here was an artist who had been in neautral for years, disconcerned with the recording process, lacking in any vision and treading the same ground on the concert stage; failing to improve his show or develop his performances, and resting on his laurels despite everything else. What did we want of Elvis by 1977? We wanted him to be fit, healthy, creative and interested in making music of worth and content . . .

but yet you will pay homeage to old blue eyes for doing the same shi.t he always done for all them years, and call him mr wonderful.....

Re: T-T-Talkin' About My Generation X --> 6-19-1977

Wed Jul 27, 2011 9:22 pm

bquick wrote:We talk about how revolutionary Elvis was by comparing him to the standard bearers who were popular at the time. Why is it unfair to compare new, fresh acts to Elvis in 1977, when he was still a top touring act? The dichotomy is similar in both instances...seeing the tired old act contrasted with the fresh new musicians on the scene. Poor Elvis...he may have never been seen as cool by young punk fans when he was in his 40s, even if he hadn't fallen off...afterall, rock and roll is seen as a game for the young, and every generation needs its own heroes. But, as guys like Springsteen, the Stones, McCartney and U2 prove, you can still age gracefully and build on your legacy as an older rock star. Elvis could have had that too...but obviously it didn't turn out that way. I wish it did...he may have given us years of great music had things turned out differently.

Did no1 tell you elvis was the first to burnout on sex drugs and rock n roll, and by doing that died.

Re: T-T-Talkin' About My Generation X --> 6-19-1977

Wed Jul 27, 2011 9:26 pm

midnightx wrote:
rizzy56 wrote:
midnightx wrote:
rizzy56 wrote:Dont you love it how they run in packs to kick the dirt into elvis face every time, so by 77 what did yous want elvis to be doing! reinventing R&R?..no matter what shape or voice elvis was in there was always going to be anew generation & movement in the music world.

But Elvis didn't need to look like a washed-up hack. He could have continued to develop his own craft and push creative boundaries of his own.

the only time elvis seem to be less than what he was worth, was when he doing the likes of houndog and co, from 73 onwards.

Yes, the "Amen/Dive-bomb" routines were a revelation.

you being asidekick is no revelation.
Do you howl at the moon when you hear an elvis song from the 70s?

Re: T-T-Talkin' About My Generation X --> 6-19-1977

Wed Jul 27, 2011 9:28 pm

-- "but yet you will pay homeage to old blue eyes for doing the same shi.t he always done for all them years, and call him mr wonderful....." --

Again, wrong -- Sinatra was an enduring, creative force and a genius in the recording studio, who was always seeking new, interesting and unique projects. He done the same in Hollywood, breaking new ground and shattering taboos. Elvis could have learned a hell of a lot from Frank Sinatra, whether you like that or not!

Re: T-T-Talkin' About My Generation X --> 6-19-1977

Wed Jul 27, 2011 9:32 pm

greystoke wrote:-- "but yet you will pay homeage to old blue eyes for doing the same shi.t he always done for all them years, and call him mr wonderful....." --

Again, wrong -- Sinatra was an enduring, creative force and a genius in the recording studio, who was always seeking new, interesting and unique projects. He done the same in Hollywood, breaking new ground and shattering taboos. Elvis could have learned a hell of a lot from Frank Sinatra, whether you like that or not!

Enduring to listen to you mean. yes Elvis could have learn something from him...how to be abully with the backing of the mafia lol

Re: T-T-Talkin' About My Generation X --> 6-19-1977

Wed Jul 27, 2011 9:35 pm

Elvisfan10 wrote:
IMETJB wrote:Some of you are taking the Doc's post way too literal.
Of all of Elvis' performances, 1977 had to be the one to get thrown to the lions. Of course people are going to take the post to be literal.

IMETJB wrote:While The Jam (or Zeppelin...or anyone other band you'd like to insert here) were out there doing their thing, doing something new, fresh and more importantly: true to their musical beliefs, here was Elvis singing an Olivia Newton John song---miles away from the original vision he set out for himself.


And you know what Elvis' vision was how? What, did he tell you in a dream or did you read second and third hand information from books? Elvis liked all kinds of music and he didn't want to stick to just one style, which is something he has said in interviews numerous times through out his life. He sang more than one song by Olivia Newton-John so that must mean that he liked her music. That WAS apart of his musical belief, just like in his Army days when he had records of completely different music genres just to mature his vocal skills.


"If You Love Me, Let Me Know" "Little Darlin" ...all these songs definitely challenged Elvis...not to mention "matured" his vocal skills. Got it.

I "know" Elvis' vision because it was quite clear there was no vision. He toured the same show for basically 4 years straight...80% of the setlist was frozen, show after show, tour after tour, year after year. In rotation, were shotty numbers that he may have enjoyed personally but not necessarily needed to be performed on stage.

In addition to the other performers mentioned above, I'd also like to add Bob Dylan, that have proven that there is a way to continue a high quality of musical output even in their later years.

I'm not sure how anyone can actually say how great those final years were when it was so clear that Elvis was not well. He was depressed, he was overweight and he was abusing prescription drugs. How in the world do you think that had nothing to do with the "music" he was creating during that time?

The problem is you along with the thousands of fans that packed those arenas during those years...just don't care what Elvis sings...as long as he sings. Nobody grows or progresses in that equation...everyone just stays where they are. And that's what happened with Elvis.
Last edited by Justin on Wed Jul 27, 2011 9:38 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Re: T-T-Talkin' About My Generation X --> 6-19-1977

Wed Jul 27, 2011 9:37 pm

rizzy56 wrote:Did no1 tell you elvis was the first to burnout on sex drugs and rock n roll, and by doing that died.


And?

Should we file this under the "Before Elvis...there was nothing" category?

Re: T-T-Talkin' About My Generation X --> 6-19-1977

Wed Jul 27, 2011 9:47 pm

IMETJB wrote:
Elvisfan10 wrote:
IMETJB wrote:Some of you are taking the Doc's post way too literal.
Of all of Elvis' performances, 1977 had to be the one to get thrown to the lions. Of course people are going to take the post to be literal.

IMETJB wrote:While The Jam (or Zeppelin...or anyone other band you'd like to insert here) were out there doing their thing, doing something new, fresh and more importantly: true to their musical beliefs, here was Elvis singing an Olivia Newton John song---miles away from the original vision he set out for himself.


And you know what Elvis' vision was how? What, did he tell you in a dream or did you read second and third hand information from books? Elvis liked all kinds of music and he didn't want to stick to just one style, which is something he has said in interviews numerous times through out his life. He sang more than one song by Olivia Newton-John so that must mean that he liked her music. That WAS apart of his musical belief, just like in his Army days when he had records of completely different music genres just to mature his vocal skills.


"If You Love Me, Let Me Know" "Little Darlin" ...all these songs definitely challenged Elvis...not to mention "matured" his vocal skills. Got it.

I "know" Elvis' vision because it was quite clear there was no vision. He toured the same show for basically 4 years straight...80% of the setlist was frozen, show after show, tour after tour, year after year. In rotation, were shotty numbers that he may have enjoyed personally but not necessarily needed to be performed on stage.

In addition to the other performers mentioned above, I'd also like to add Bob Dylan, that have proven that there is a way to continue a high quality of musical output even in their later years.

I'm not sure how anyone can actually say how great those final years were when it was so clear that Elvis was not well. He was depressed, he was overweight and he was abusing prescription drugs. How in the world do you think that had nothing to do with the "music" he was creating during that time?

The problem is you along with the thousands of fans that packed those arenas during those years...just don't care what Elvis sings...as long as he sings. Nobody grows or progresses in that equation...everyone just stays where they are. And that's what happened with Elvis.

well i am really heart broken for you...elvis did not give you what you wanted had you been him in the last four years of his life.........you all called the problem with elvis in nearly every fecking thread of this FECC ''DRUGS'' reminder for you and the rest of the brady bunch on this forum! their was not much help for that in the 70s......but you will blow mj's horn and say what aguy...but i never did read about elvis in all his drug induce days kipping in with kids for nite nites...