Re: "Are You Lonesome To-night?" --> Mystery Influence !

Sat Oct 29, 2011 8:50 pm

davide wrote:
poormadpeter wrote:
Jaime1234 wrote:Presley must have heard this recording when he was 10 or 11, if he did listen to it, whether attentively, in passing, or not at all. But what is truly remarkable is his spoken recitation when considering he only did this once, or at the most twice according to the engineers that were there at studio B. That he attempted to create the right mood by shutting the lights off completely leads me to believe Parker's suggestion that he record this, his favourite song, really meant something to Presley. He wanted to give it his all for the Col, and he delivered brilliantly. There's simply not another song in Presley's repertoire that conveys as much heavenly atmospheric brilliance as this one.On the following night to Elvis death, I practically spent the entire night tuning every AM and short wave station in the world, hungry as I was to hear his voice. I had listened to about five songs when this one came in, clear as a whistle and I cried. I was 27 years old.


Let's not get ahead of ourselves here. There is nothing to say that Elvis ever heard this on the radio (and certainly not when he was 10 or 11 as it wasnt recorded until he was 15!). What we can say is that this may well have been the version Elvis based his on - although for all we know, he never heard it until Parker suggested the song to Elvis in 1960. Between 1950 and 1960 there were other version which also used the same recitative, which Elvis may also have heard or based his version on - although the one presented here seems more likely, all things considered.



I have a reference to Elvis in a conversation, in 1956 - talking about the song 'Are You Lonesome To-night?'

Davide


No disrespect intended, but unless that conversation was recorded (ie, an interview) surely that's just heresay?

Re: "Are You Lonesome To-night?" --> Mystery Influence !

Sat Oct 29, 2011 9:02 pm

Thanks Doc! I read that this was the only (non live) request he did for the Ole' Colonel. I do not doubt the "influence" you presented as a demo for him to emulate.

Re: "Are You Lonesome To-night?" --> Mystery Influence !

Sat Oct 29, 2011 9:33 pm

poormadpeter wrote:
Jaime1234 wrote:Presley must have heard this recording when he was 10 or 11, if he did listen to it, whether attentively, in passing, or not at all. But what is truly remarkable is his spoken recitation when considering he only did this once, or at the most twice according to the engineers that were there at studio B. That he attempted to create the right mood by shutting the lights off completely leads me to believe Parker's suggestion that he record this, his favourite song, really meant something to Presley. He wanted to give it his all for the Col, and he delivered brilliantly. There's simply not another song in Presley's repertoire that conveys as much heavenly atmospheric brilliance as this one.On the following night to Elvis death, I practically spent the entire night tuning every AM and short wave station in the world, hungry as I was to hear his voice. I had listened to about five songs when this one came in, clear as a whistle and I cried. I was 27 years old.


Let's not get ahead of ourselves here. There is nothing to say that Elvis ever heard this on the radio (and certainly not when he was 10 or 11 as it wasnt recorded until he was 15!). What we can say is that this may well have been the version Elvis based his on - although for all we know, he never heard it until Parker suggested the song to Elvis in 1960. Between 1950 and 1960 there were other version which also used the same recitative, which Elvis may also have heard or based his version on - although the one presented here seems more likely, all things considered.


So then the point of your post would be? Perhaps to once again show anyone who will listen that you have a difference of opinion even if it doesn't make any sense... try stamping your feet and jumping up and down next time... it'll make more of an impact...

Re: "Are You Lonesome To-night?" --> Mystery Influence !

Sat Oct 29, 2011 9:41 pm

i can hear the influnece for sure..if you'll notice Elvis says the word "stray" in almost the same fashion as the singer on the video almost like he is copying his vocal style..pretty cool thanks for posting..

Re: "Are You Lonesome To-night?" --> Mystery Influence !

Sat Oct 29, 2011 9:51 pm

Great post DJC and David.
While I don't favor this over Elvis' recording, I do enjoy the drama of Al Jolson's 1950 performance...


phpBB [video]

Re: "Are You Lonesome To-night?" --> Mystery Influence !

Sat Oct 29, 2011 10:59 pm

Thank you for some very nice replies. These kinds of discoveries are thrilling, and the fact that they may often be immediately fleshed out with documentation and recordings (Billboard, YouTube) is a 21st century miracle. Blue Barron also cut a version of "Beyond The Reef" in 1950 that I suspect may also have influenced Elvis' fabulous 1966 studio effort. But it is not online (yet) and I do not own a copy.

Steve Morse wrote:Listening to the narration on the Blue Barron recording, it sounds so bland and wholesome, being vaguely reminiscent of Wink Martindale on "Deck of Cards" and hardly likely to raise the pulse of any female.

Elvis's 1960 narration, by comparison, is a masterpiece of understated drama, confidently spoken yet with a magic touch of hesitance and vulnerability. Genius, in a recording that we take for granted through familiarity.

Beautiful and spot-on observation, Steve. Presley's rendition didn't hit #1 by mistake, he makes it his own.


Jaime1234 wrote:Presley must have heard this recording when he was 10 or 11, if he did listen to it, whether attentively, in passing, or not at all. But what is truly remarkable is his spoken recitation when considering he only did this once, or at the most twice according to the engineers that were there at studio B. That he attempted to create the right mood by shutting the lights off completely leads me to believe Parker's suggestion that he record this, his favourite song, really meant something to Presley. He wanted to give it his all for the Col, and he delivered brilliantly. There's simply not another song in Presley's repertoire that conveys as much heavenly atmospheric brilliance as this one. On the following night to Elvis death, I practically spent the entire night tuning every AM and short wave station in the world, hungry as I was to hear his voice. I had listened to about five songs when this one came in, clear as a whistle and I cried. I was 27 years old.

What a heartfelt memory and terrific comment. Welcome to the FECC forum, Jaime1234!

Re: "Are You Lonesome To-night?" --> Mystery Influence !

Sat Oct 29, 2011 11:40 pm

SIDEBAR!
Per previous comments, below is another influential narration record. Teenaged Elvis listened to a LOT of radio and must have auditioned many 78s at the local record shop.


phpBB [video]


Ink Spots, "That's When Your Heartaches Begin" (Decca 25505, April 26, 1952)
The B-side was "It's A Sin To Tell A Lie," which Elvis did a home demo of in 1966.
This cut may be an earlier Ink Spots rendition, Decca 3720 from May 1941. Anyone know for sure?



Another version that seems to have been heard by the teenaged Elvis was this release:


phpBB [video]


Billy Bunn and his Buddies, "That's When Your Heartaches Begin" (RCA 4657, April 26, 1952)
There is no narration, but listen to soprano Bunn's vocal stylings. Presley must have known this.


See:
THE VOCAL GROUP HARMONY WEB SITE - RECORD OF THE WEEK
SPOTLIGHT ON BILLY BUNN - PART ONE OF TWO

http://www.vocalgroupharmony.com/ROWNEW2/ThatsWhen.htm

Re: "Are You Lonesome To-night?" --> Mystery Influence !

Sun Oct 30, 2011 1:44 am

colonel snow wrote:A simular version was recorded in march 1960 by The Red Caps (Mercury 8174).

It appears to be a decade earlier than that.

Steve Gibson and the Redcaps, "Are You Lonesome Tonight" (Mercury 8174, March 1950).

Unfortunately, it is not online. The flip-side was "Sentimental Me," which Elvis cut in 1961. Another connection, no doubt.

Re: "Are You Lonesome To-night?" --> Mystery Influence !

Sun Oct 30, 2011 1:56 am

elvis-fan wrote:
poormadpeter wrote:
Jaime1234 wrote:Presley must have heard this recording when he was 10 or 11, if he did listen to it, whether attentively, in passing, or not at all. But what is truly remarkable is his spoken recitation when considering he only did this once, or at the most twice according to the engineers that were there at studio B. That he attempted to create the right mood by shutting the lights off completely leads me to believe Parker's suggestion that he record this, his favourite song, really meant something to Presley. He wanted to give it his all for the Col, and he delivered brilliantly. There's simply not another song in Presley's repertoire that conveys as much heavenly atmospheric brilliance as this one.On the following night to Elvis death, I practically spent the entire night tuning every AM and short wave station in the world, hungry as I was to hear his voice. I had listened to about five songs when this one came in, clear as a whistle and I cried. I was 27 years old.


Let's not get ahead of ourselves here. There is nothing to say that Elvis ever heard this on the radio (and certainly not when he was 10 or 11 as it wasnt recorded until he was 15!). What we can say is that this may well have been the version Elvis based his on - although for all we know, he never heard it until Parker suggested the song to Elvis in 1960. Between 1950 and 1960 there were other version which also used the same recitative, which Elvis may also have heard or based his version on - although the one presented here seems more likely, all things considered.


So then the point of your post would be? Perhaps to once again show anyone who will listen that you have a difference of opinion even if it doesn't make any sense... try stamping your feet and jumping up and down next time... it'll make more of an impact...

on the contrary, if you read my post correctly you would know that it simply replied to a post (quoted) saying how Elvis was listening to that recording as a kid. I simply said that we didn't know WHEN he listening to it - it could have been the night before he recorded it. Just because the song was recorded in 1950 then didn't mean he heard it at that time. That's all. No difference of opinion.

Re: "Are You Lonesome To-night?" --> Mystery Influence !

Sun Oct 30, 2011 8:53 am

poormadpeter wrote:
Jaime1234 wrote:Presley must have heard this recording when he was 10 or 11, if he did listen to it, whether attentively, in passing, or not at all. But what is truly remarkable is his spoken recitation when considering he only did this once, or at the most twice according to the engineers that were there at studio B. That he attempted to create the right mood by shutting the lights off completely leads me to believe Parker's suggestion that he record this, his favourite song, really meant something to Presley. He wanted to give it his all for the Col, and he delivered brilliantly. There's simply not another song in Presley's repertoire that conveys as much heavenly atmospheric brilliance as this one.On the following night to Elvis death, I practically spent the entire night tuning every AM and short wave station in the world, hungry as I was to hear his voice. I had listened to about five songs when this one came in, clear as a whistle and I cried. I was 27 years old.


Let's not get ahead of ourselves here. There is nothing to say that Elvis ever heard this on the radio (and certainly not when he was 10 or 11 as it wasnt recorded until he was 15!). What we can say is that this may well have been the version Elvis based his on - although for all we know, he never heard it until Parker suggested the song to Elvis in 1960. Between 1950 and 1960 there were other version which also used the same recitative, which Elvis may also have heard or based his version on - although the one presented here seems more likely, all things considered.[/quot

I meant 15.

Re: "Are You Lonesome To-night?" --> Mystery Influence !

Sun Oct 30, 2011 8:55 am

Jaime1234 wrote:I meant 15.

No worries, most of us understood that. Hope you enjoyed the topic!

Re: "Are You Lonesome To-night?" --> Mystery Influence !

Sun Oct 30, 2011 8:56 am

drjohncarpenter wrote:Thank you for some very nice replies. These kinds of discoveries are thrilling, and the fact that they may often be immediately fleshed out with documentation and recordings (Billboard, YouTube) is a 21st century miracle. Blue Barron also cut a version of "Beyond The Reef" in 1950 that I suspect may also have influenced Elvis' fabulous 1966 studio effort. But it is not online (yet) and I do not own a copy.

Steve Morse wrote:Listening to the narration on the Blue Barron recording, it sounds so bland and wholesome, being vaguely reminiscent of Wink Martindale on "Deck of Cards" and hardly likely to raise the pulse of any female.

Elvis's 1960 narration, by comparison, is a masterpiece of understated drama, confidently spoken yet with a magic touch of hesitance and vulnerability. Genius, in a recording that we take for granted through familiarity.

Beautiful and spot-on observation, Steve. Presley's rendition didn't hit #1 by mistake, he makes it his own.


Jaime1234 wrote:Presley must have heard this recording when he was 10 or 11, if he did listen to it, whether attentively, in passing, or not at all. But what is truly remarkable is his spoken recitation when considering he only did this once, or at the most twice according to the engineers that were there at studio B. That he attempted to create the right mood by shutting the lights off completely leads me to believe Parker's suggestion that he record this, his favourite song, really meant something to Presley. He wanted to give it his all for the Col, and he delivered brilliantly. There's simply not another song in Presley's repertoire that conveys as much heavenly atmospheric brilliance as this one. On the following night to Elvis death, I practically spent the entire night tuning every AM and short wave station in the world, hungry as I was to hear his voice. I had listened to about five songs when this one came in, clear as a whistle and I cried. I was 27 years old.

What a heartfelt memory and terrific comment. Welcome to the FECC forum, Jaime1234!



Thanks Dr. Carpenter.

Re: "Are You Lonesome To-night?" --> Mystery Influence !

Sun Oct 30, 2011 9:01 am

poormadpeter wrote:
elvis-fan wrote:
poormadpeter wrote:
Jaime1234 wrote:Presley must have heard this recording when he was 10 or 11, if he did listen to it, whether attentively, in passing, or not at all. But what is truly remarkable is his spoken recitation when considering he only did this once, or at the most twice according to the engineers that were there at studio B. That he attempted to create the right mood by shutting the lights off completely leads me to believe Parker's suggestion that he record this, his favourite song, really meant something to Presley. He wanted to give it his all for the Col, and he delivered brilliantly. There's simply not another song in Presley's repertoire that conveys as much heavenly atmospheric brilliance as this one.On the following night to Elvis death, I practically spent the entire night tuning every AM and short wave station in the world, hungry as I was to hear his voice. I had listened to about five songs when this one came in, clear as a whistle and I cried. I was 27 years old.


Let's not get ahead of ourselves here. There is nothing to say that Elvis ever heard this on the radio (and certainly not when he was 10 or 11 as it wasnt recorded until he was 15!). What we can say is that this may well have been the version Elvis based his on - although for all we know, he never heard it until Parker suggested the song to Elvis in 1960. Between 1950 and 1960 there were other version which also used the same recitative, which Elvis may also have heard or based his version on - although the one presented here seems more likely, all things considered.


So then the point of your post would be? Perhaps to once again show anyone who will listen that you have a difference of opinion even if it doesn't make any sense... try stamping your feet and jumping up and down next time... it'll make more of an impact...

on the contrary, if you read my post correctly you would know that it simply replied to a post (quoted) saying how Elvis was listening to that recording as a kid. I simply said that we didn't know WHEN he listening to it - it could have been the night before he recorded it. Just because the song was recorded in 1950 then didn't mean he heard it at that time. That's all. No difference of opinion.


I usually don't make mistakes when naming or recalling years, and numbers, but for some reason I susbstracted 1950 minus 1935 and got 5, instead of the right number which was 15. Then, when I was already wrong in the calculation, I even added a few years. Total mistake on my part. but my thought is still he heard this particular recording before, say, he showed up at SUN.

Re: "Are You Lonesome To-night?" --> Mystery Influence !

Sun Oct 30, 2011 9:15 am

poormadpeter wrote:
There is nothing to say that Elvis ever heard this on the radio for all we know, he never heard it until Parker suggested the song to Elvis in 1960.


Another great post Doc. I'd imagine their was a very good chance that Elvis heard this somewhere in Lauderdale Courts while he was instinctively soaking up everything surrounding him.
The fact that Parker suggested that Elvis record the song would also suggest to me that Elvis was fully aware of it.

Re: "Are You Lonesome To-night?" --> Mystery Influence !

Sun Oct 30, 2011 9:45 am

KiwiAlan wrote:
Jove wrote:David Neale has mentioned this in his website

...Colonel Parker persuaded Elvis to record this number, a favourite of Mrs. Parker's! The arrangement used in Elvis's version is based on the 1950 recording of Are You Lonesome Tonight by the Blue Barron Orchestra. The spoken part is loosely based on a speech by Jacques in Shakespeare's "As You Like It", Act II Scene VII: "All the world's a stage, and all men and women merely players: they have their exits and their entrances; And one man in his time plays many parts."
http://davidneale.eu/elvis/originals/list1.html#S1133



So this was no "mystery" at all except to the uninformed!


:smt003 :smt003

Re: "Are You Lonesome To-night?" --> Mystery Influence !

Sun Oct 30, 2011 12:19 pm

Julian Grant wrote:
poormadpeter wrote:There is nothing to say that Elvis ever heard this on the radio for all we know, he never heard it until Parker suggested the song to Elvis in 1960.


Another great post Doc. I'd imagine their was a very good chance that Elvis heard this somewhere in Lauderdale Courts while he was instinctively soaking up everything surrounding him.
The fact that Parker suggested that Elvis record the song would also suggest to me that Elvis was fully aware of it.

Indeed. Needless to say, I thank you for your compliment and totally agree with your assessment.

::rocks

Re: "Are You Lonesome To-night?" --> Mystery Influence !

Sun Oct 30, 2011 1:56 pm

colonel snow wrote:
A simular version was recorded in march 1960 by The Red Caps (Mercury 8174).



I made a correction on the date.


colonel snow

Re: "Are You Lonesome To-night?" --> Mystery Influence !

Sun Oct 30, 2011 3:27 pm

Jove wrote:David Neale has mentioned this in his website

...Colonel Parker persuaded Elvis to record this number, a favourite of Mrs. Parker's! The arrangement used in Elvis's version is based on the 1950 recording of Are You Lonesome Tonight by the Blue Barron Orchestra. The spoken part is loosely based on a speech by Jacques in Shakespeare's "As You Like It", Act II Scene VII: "All the world's a stage, and all men and women merely players: they have their exits and their entrances; And one man in his time plays many parts."
http://davidneale.eu/elvis/originals/list1.html#S1133


Yes, and this information was also supplied by David Neale in his book Roots of Elvis published in September 2003.

Image

Plus, as Greystoke has already pointed out, Paul Simpson also mentions the Blue Barron Orchestra version of the song in the first edition of his book The Rough Guide to Elvis published in July 2002 (although the recording is misdated as 1959).

Image


KiwiAlan wrote:So this was no "mystery" at all except to the uninformed!


smt171

Re: "Are You Lonesome To-night?" --> Mystery Influence !

Sun Oct 30, 2011 6:37 pm

drjohncarpenter wrote:SIDEBAR!
Per previous comments, below is another influential narration record. Teenaged Elvis listened to a LOT of radio and must have auditioned many 78s at the local record shop.


phpBB [video]


Ink Spots, "That's When Your Heartaches Begin" (Decca 25505, April 26, 1952)
The B-side was "It's A Sin To Tell A Lie," which Elvis did a home demo of in 1966.
This cut may be an earlier Ink Spots rendition, Decca 3720 from May 1941. Anyone know for sure?



Another version that seems to have been heard by the teenaged Elvis was this release:


phpBB [video]


Billy Bunn and his Buddies, "That's When Your Heartaches Begin" (RCA 4657, April 26, 1952)
There is no narration, but listen to soprano Bunn's vocal stylings. Presley must have known this.


See:
THE VOCAL GROUP HARMONY WEB SITE - RECORD OF THE WEEK
SPOTLIGHT ON BILLY BUNN - PART ONE OF TWO

http://www.vocalgroupharmony.com/ROWNEW2/ThatsWhen.htm



According to this site with the Ink Spots recording sessions the 1952 version on Decca 25505 is a re-release of the 23-12-40 recording.

http://inkspots.ca/DISCOGRAPHY.htm#BM40
PS The 25000 series numbering on Decca contain re-releases from around 1939/1942.


colonel snow

Re: "Are You Lonesome To-night?" --> Mystery Influence !

Sun Oct 30, 2011 6:39 pm

The Purple Gang wrote:
Jove wrote:David Neale has mentioned this in his website

...Colonel Parker persuaded Elvis to record this number, a favourite of Mrs. Parker's! The arrangement used in Elvis's version is based on the 1950 recording of Are You Lonesome Tonight by the Blue Barron Orchestra. The spoken part is loosely based on a speech by Jacques in Shakespeare's "As You Like It", Act II Scene VII: "All the world's a stage, and all men and women merely players: they have their exits and their entrances; And one man in his time plays many parts."
http://davidneale.eu/elvis/originals/list1.html#S1133


Yes, and this information was also supplied by David Neale in his book Roots of Elvis published in September 2003.

Image

Plus, as Greystoke has already pointed out, Paul Simpson also mentions the Blue Barron Orchestra version of the song in the first edition of his book The Rough Guide to Elvis published in July 2002 (although the recording is misdated as 1959).

Image


KiwiAlan wrote:So this was no "mystery" at all except to the uninformed!


smt171




At the time the book of David Neale was great but it is outdated now; for the actual information you have to go to his site.

colonel snow

Re: "Are You Lonesome To-night?" --> Mystery Influence !

Sun Oct 30, 2011 10:24 pm

I think the gay versions of this song were also a message to the colonel. i can not think of another reason to ruin this song this specific way. It is in a way the same message he sent during the closing show of his second season in Las Vegas during 1973. Think FTD "Closing Night". It was more than have fun and letting go after another season. It basically said "**** you" to amongs others the colonel. the versions of 1976 and 1977 made a sore spectacle of a brilliant song once handled brilliantly by the same singer named Elvis Presley.

Re: "Are You Lonesome To-night?" --> Mystery Influence !

Sun Oct 30, 2011 10:36 pm

Can someone please explain to me how this is a mystery if David Neale has this information posted on his website for the whole world to see??? :? :? :?

As per usual, Doc takes credit for someone elses work and doesn't even have the decency to aknowledge that his so called "mystery", is actually no mystery at all, as it has been in the public domain for years.

It is typical of the Doc to ignore every post that has drawn attention to the fact that all his information has been previously released. :oops: :oops: :oops:

The only "mystery" about this topic is why it is a "Sticky". :P :P

Re: "Are You Lonesome To-night?" --> Mystery Influence !

Sun Oct 30, 2011 10:56 pm

drjohncarpenter wrote:I

It seems to be a fact!



Now thats funny right there!!!

Re: "Are You Lonesome To-night?" --> Mystery Influence !

Sun Oct 30, 2011 11:16 pm

There must have been a demo, actual recording or lead sheet at Elvis' recording session.

While Elvis might be recalling a minor hit of 10 years ago....the band members would be hard to remember or even know it.

Logic suggests that the Colonel submitted his wifes precious copy of the Barron recording to Elvis requesting that he record it. Probably while Elvis was in Germany. This would give Hill and Range the time to set up the details.

Re: "Are You Lonesome To-night?" --> Mystery Influence !

Mon Oct 31, 2011 12:18 am

This version from 1959 by Jaye P. Morgan influenced the Colonel's wife but Elvis recorded his own version inspired by the Blue Barron Orchestra.


colonel snow
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