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widescreen cropping

Wed Jul 03, 2013 7:58 am

can i playback a movie with nothing cropped out i hate the cropping i want to see the film in full screen nothing cropped out.LIKE the early vhs/beta era before they started cropping films to death. the colorized version is the ratio that should have been used on all releases of JHR on dvd.nothing was cropped out on that version.
Last edited by ritchie valens on Wed Jul 03, 2013 8:23 am, edited 1 time in total.

Re: widescreen cropping

Wed Jul 03, 2013 8:02 am

They are not cropped. If you view these widescreen formats in 4:3 full screen then you are only zooming in on the video, and losing information on the left and right.

Re: widescreen cropping

Wed Jul 03, 2013 8:21 am

heres the ratio that should have been used on all dvds of JHR.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xltno1wopR4

Re: widescreen cropping

Wed Jul 03, 2013 9:45 am

promiseland wrote:They are not cropped. If you view these widescreen formats in 4:3 full screen then you are only zooming in on the video, and losing information on the left and right.


Promiseland is right. What you are viewing is the original aspect ratio the film was filmed in, so you get all the information as the director of the film intended. When you watch 4:3 aspect ratio, or you "zoom in" then THAT is cropping and you lose information from the left, right, top, and bottom of the picture. So you are viewing an altered version of the original film on a 4:3 TV.

I would watch nothing less than the original aspect ratio that any film was filmed on. This means that I am watching everything that the director originally intended to show us.

Re: widescreen cropping

Wed Jul 03, 2013 10:41 am

ritchie valens wrote:can i playback a movie with nothing cropped out i hate the cropping i want to see the film in full screen nothing cropped out.LIKE the early vhs/beta era before they started cropping films to death. the colorized version is the ratio that should have been used on all releases of JHR on dvd.nothing was cropped out on that version.


Thanks.

Re: widescreen cropping

Thu Jul 04, 2013 6:25 am

You might find this article of interest: http://www.3dfilmarchive.com/home/wides ... umentation

Recent documentation has been discovered which indicates JAILHOUSE ROCK was shot non-anamorphic full frame and then the 2.35:1 extraction was created from that element by Panavision.

Re: widescreen cropping

Thu Jul 04, 2013 5:23 pm

ritchie valens wrote:can i playback a movie with nothing cropped out i hate the cropping i want to see the film in full screen nothing cropped out.LIKE the early vhs/beta era before they started cropping films to death. the colorized version is the ratio that should have been used on all releases of JHR on dvd.nothing was cropped out on that version.


Ritchie, for someone who has what appears to be a genuine interest in the history of cinema, your post is slightly confusing. The situation with JHR, as stated by Nelson is more complicated than most, but for the most part, widescreen films shown on TVs with black bars top and bottom and not cropped - they are being shown as they were intended to be. When they are shown in the way you suggest, as has already been stated, they are cropped left and right (and sometimes top and bottom) in order to fit the TV screen.

In other words, films are made with various different aspect ratios. Your TV is unable to physically change its shape for each one, so pretend that the black bars you see are simply extensions of the outside frames of your TV. Yes, that means your viewing area is shrunk, but this happens at the cinema as well. When the main feature starts after the adverts etc, you will see that the picture size becomes smaller, not bigger, as the top and bottom of the screen are basically not used, and this creates the widescreen aspect ratio of the film. The screen doesn't extend left and right, it shrinks top and bottom, just as it does on your TV screen.

Here is an example:

panscan.jpg


When watched without the black bars that you object to, you only get to see the section within the red square, and the picture either side of that is completely lost and cropped out. Therefore, while that red square section fills your screen, you are also losing around 1/3 of the picture.

The same thing occured in the old days when we all had square TVs, the picture was cropped either side on VHS releases and the all the information left and right was cropped out of the picture.
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Re: widescreen cropping

Fri Jul 05, 2013 6:57 am

Im watching on a 17 inch laptop. You are right at least 3 or 4 different versions of JHR exist. 2 B&w and colorized.I think the The 1st version on the 1983 Cbs/Fox and the colorized version is the same print.
Then u have the annoying pan and scan version.Which was also used on the 1st dvd issue.Ok.How do they really know how JHR was shown in 1957? Is any of the orignal producers or Director alive to show how they way they wanted it shown?

Re: widescreen cropping

Fri Jul 05, 2013 3:46 pm

ritchie valens wrote:Im watching on a 17 inch laptop. You are right at least 3 or 4 different versions of JHR exist. 2 B&w and colorized.I think the The 1st version on the 1983 Cbs/Fox and the colorized version is the same print.
Then u have the annoying pan and scan version.Which was also used on the 1st dvd issue.Ok.How do they really know how JHR was shown in 1957? Is any of the orignal producers or Director alive to show how they way they wanted it shown?


There will be paperwork logging all that kind of information at the studio.

Re: widescreen cropping

Sat Jul 13, 2013 4:19 pm

I agree that the Colourised version is better to watch as it has more image ..... And the producers of the original aspect ratio "got it wrong" because Elvis can be seen full frame during the dance sequence......in the widescreen ratio he's missing from the knees down !

Re: widescreen cropping

Wed Jul 17, 2013 1:11 am

I used my computer and made the 4:3 83 vhs copy in the ratio bluray is in bluray .It is still wrong on bluray.The colorized version is the right print used.

Re: widescreen cropping

Thu Jul 18, 2013 3:25 pm

A nice explanation:

http://vimeo.com/68830569

Re: widescreen cropping

Sat Jul 20, 2013 11:49 pm

ritchie valens wrote:I used my computer and made the 4:3 83 vhs copy in the ratio bluray is in bluray .It is still wrong on bluray.The colorized version is the right print used.


The aspect ratio is correct on the blu-ray. The added informaton on the top and bottom of the colourized version was not meant to be seen.

Re: widescreen cropping

Wed Jul 24, 2013 1:50 am

They need to transfer old movies in this ratio.no 16:9.
2:76 ratio instead.

Re: widescreen cropping

Wed Jul 24, 2013 4:15 am

ritchie valens wrote:They need to transfer old movies in this ratio.no 16:9.
2:76 ratio instead.


No, they need to be transferred as originally intended.

Re: widescreen cropping

Fri Jul 26, 2013 12:14 am

27:6 is better there wasn't such a thing as 16:9 period during filming of anymovie.Thats just for tv and it sucks.fill the full screen no black bars everything seen nothing cut out due to sizing for tvairings or dvd playbacks.not 4:3 i mean either. the whipping tieup scene in jailhouse rock is whats cropped cant see below his arms,this goes for most nude or topless scenes the good parts are cut out cant see actresses boobs sucks esp if thats the only good thing in a shitty movie.

Re: widescreen cropping

Fri Jul 26, 2013 1:45 am

ritchie valens wrote:27:6 is better there wasn't such a thing as 16:9 period during filming of anymovie.Thats just for tv and it sucks.fill the full screen no black bars everything seen nothing cut out due to sizing for tvairings or dvd playbacks.not 4:3 i mean either. the whipping tieup scene in jailhouse rock is whats cropped cant see below his arms,this goes for most nude or topless scenes the good parts are cut out cant see actresses boobs sucks esp if thats the only good thing in a shitty movie.


What you are asking is the equivalent of having a camera with a viewfinder, framing your picture, and then have everything outside the view finder in the shot as well. What you are asking for was never intended to be seen.

But, yeah, let's change it all so we can see some boobs.

Re: widescreen cropping

Mon Jul 29, 2013 12:12 am

and all of elvis.

Re: widescreen cropping

Sat Aug 03, 2013 11:32 pm

poormadpeter wrote:
ritchie valens wrote:can i playback a movie with nothing cropped out i hate the cropping i want to see the film in full screen nothing cropped out.LIKE the early vhs/beta era before they started cropping films to death. the colorized version is the ratio that should have been used on all releases of JHR on dvd.nothing was cropped out on that version.


Ritchie, for someone who has what appears to be a genuine interest in the history of cinema, your post is slightly confusing. The situation with JHR, as stated by Nelson is more complicated than most, but for the most part, widescreen films shown on TVs with black bars top and bottom and not cropped - they are being shown as they were intended to be. When they are shown in the way you suggest, as has already been stated, they are cropped left and right (and sometimes top and bottom) in order to fit the TV screen.

In other words, films are made with various different aspect ratios. Your TV is unable to physically change its shape for each one, so pretend that the black bars you see are simply extensions of the outside frames of your TV. Yes, that means your viewing area is shrunk, but this happens at the cinema as well. When the main feature starts after the adverts etc, you will see that the picture size becomes smaller, not bigger, as the top and bottom of the screen are basically not used, and this creates the widescreen aspect ratio of the film. The screen doesn't extend left and right, it shrinks top and bottom, just as it does on your TV screen.

Here is an example:

panscan.jpg


When watched without the black bars that you object to, you only get to see the section within the red square, and the picture either side of that is completely lost and cropped out. Therefore, while that red square section fills your screen, you are also losing around 1/3 of the picture.

The same thing occured in the old days when we all had square TVs, the picture was cropped either side on VHS releases and the all the information left and right was cropped out of the picture.


Thanks Peter for spending the time to explain this, there are so many people who do not understand the purpose of widescreen and the negitive effect of reformating to 4:3 . I'm going to have this topic transferred to my Software section so your reply here can be used for future references to such inquiries.