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2017 - Unity and Brother/Sisterhood in the FECC community.

Sun Dec 04, 2016 7:34 pm

As 2016 is fast approaching its end, I am writing to each and every member with my hopes for the new year.

For way too long, there has been an "Us vs Them" attitude here at FECC between what could best be described as two warring factions.

Each side believes that they are right, and the other is wrong. Each side takes some enjoyment out of winding up the other side. Whether this is done solely out of the enjoyment of "pressing a members buttons", or to disrupt the forum. It doesn't matter.

This has to stop. And it has to stop now.

The constant personal attacks, derailment of topics, and petty "button pushing" frightens new members away, as well as long-standing members from participating.

It is no secret that FECC is the largest Elvis forum on the internet, with the largest base of members. Members who come from all corners of the world, and bringing with them unique perspectives of the "Elvis World" - if only they felt "safe" enough to share them, without getting caught in the middle of the above mentioned squabbles.

I ask each and every member to consider the following...

Think of how great FECC COULD BE if we all could get together within our community, unified, with a common interest. With a sense of brother/sisterhood. I am not delusional in suggesting this. As this is how it once was, not too long ago.

I am asking each member to put aside their differences, no matter what side of the aisle they may be on. I am asking each and every member to AT LEAST TRY to make 2017 the year that FECC began to heal and came together as a whole, and became united. If this could be done, we would all be part of something truly great. No more would members fear giving their opinions. After all, we are all different with differing perspectives on a host of Elvis related topics.

This can be done. It should be done. And with each members help - it will be done.

The best part is, that to achieve this - all one has to do is think "Is what I am posting, being posted to push someone's buttons?" If so, then, should you be posting it?

FECC surely will not survive with the way things are currently going. So this is not just a personal plea on my behalf. It is a plea to keep FECC alive and kicking. To strengthen the community of Elvis fans, that we all are.

2017 can be a great year for FECC. We can become one, we can heal. But it cannot be done without your help.

::rocks ::rocks ::rocks

@r&b @Juan Luis @MikeFromHolland @drjohncarpenter @Greystoke @Mister Moon @The fool @Johnny2523 @Mike Windgren @poormadpeter2 @midnightx @TCB-FAN @Hard Rocker @Ciscoking @fn2drive @Steve Morse @The Pirate @promiseland @George Smith @SteamrollerBlues @a mess of polk salad @stevelecher @jurasic1968 @sweetangeline @Domino @goldbelt @HoneyTalkNelson @GibbersGanfa @Ken Jensen @elvisalisellers @Davelee @OnStage55 @Scarre @norrie @When In Rome @Bodie @PiersEIN @ICanHelp @JimmyCool @brian @VEGAS74 @emjel @Tony..@Keith@Rock Legend @Stvimpe @TJ @Lonely Summer @Mister Mike @StefanKock1 @Pink&Black @Chad Gates @EPA4368 @King Volcano @colonel snow @Justin @Tony C @trouble_jw @BBG @minkahed @billyblues @Mike C @BobDylan @Garfield @Kylan @GLAISTER @elvisa @JRtherealJR @RKSNASHVILLE @DayVee Bee

Re: 2017 - Unity and Brother/Sisterhood in the FECC communit

Sun Dec 04, 2016 8:17 pm

Whoah.... all you people that pressed the "like" button. What I suspect you're hoping is not that you all find some common ground, but that all the people who disagree with you, come over to your way of thinking. And that's not going to happen, is it?

And if it did, just exactly how boring would that make this group?

No, what needs to be done is the moderators to stop getting in the middle of a bunch of adults who can, surely, fight their own battles.

Re: 2017 - Unity and Brother/Sisterhood in the FECC communit

Sun Dec 04, 2016 8:21 pm

Hi @The pirate.
Those aren't "likes" but tags.
All I'm hoping for is folks find common ground. I'm not asking for a utopian world. Just one where members debate the topic at hand, and not make it personal. I'm not asking everyone to agree with everyone. Or even, for everyone to like everyone. Just that members think before they make a personal attack. And if members are here solely to "fight battles", they are in the wrong place. FECC should be welcoming to all Elvis fans. Not a battlefield.

Re: 2017 - Unity and Brother/Sisterhood in the FECC communit

Sun Dec 04, 2016 9:11 pm

Absolutely and totally agree with you, Jordan!!! The constant and fighting and bickering about who's right or wrong is one of the main reasons why I don't visit much anymore. This used to be such a really fun place and we had some very wonderful members. Some have, sadly, passed away (that can't be helped....that's just a part of life) and others like Carolynm & Little Darlin' & even RJM have completely stopped or majorly cut back the time they spend here.

Come on, ladies and gents!! Let's make this board one of the best messageboards out there in the Elvis world!! Like Jordan said, it can be done BUT we ALL have to make an effort to do it!!!

Re: 2017 - Unity and Brother/Sisterhood in the FECC communit

Sun Dec 04, 2016 9:49 pm

Thank you, Jordan.

Re: 2017 - Unity and Brother/Sisterhood in the FECC communit

Sun Dec 04, 2016 9:56 pm

I'm in total agreement with you, Jordan. Thank You!

::rocks

Re: 2017 - Unity and Brother/Sisterhood in the FECC communit

Sun Dec 04, 2016 10:29 pm

Thanks Jordan,didnt see my tagbut thanks all the same

Re: 2017 - Unity and Brother/Sisterhood in the FECC communit

Mon Dec 05, 2016 2:45 am

Great post, Jordan.

::rocks

Re: 2017 - Unity and Brother/Sisterhood in the FECC communit

Mon Dec 05, 2016 2:56 am

Well said, Jordan. Thank you for all you do in keeping our little family together, despite its dysfunction.

Re: 2017 - Unity and Brother/Sisterhood in the FECC communit

Mon Dec 05, 2016 3:10 am

The Pirate wrote:Whoah.... all you people that pressed the "like" button. What I suspect you're hoping is not that you all find some common ground, but that all the people who disagree with you, come over to your way of thinking. And that's not going to happen, is it?

And if it did, just exactly how boring would that make this group?

No, what needs to be done is the moderators to stop getting in the middle of a bunch of adults who can, surely, fight their own battles.



No, what needs to be done is we members taking our responsibility. Sure, we are adults - or we are supposed to be - able to fight our own battles, but that is entirely besides the point. The bickering is annoying, boring, irritating and senseless. It pushes people away, causes them to leave FECC or makes them refrain from engaging in discussions. We don't have to agree about everything, but discussions should be respectful. And that's a shared responsibility. It takes two to tango.

Re: 2017 - Unity and Brother/Sisterhood in the FECC communit

Mon Dec 05, 2016 1:16 pm

Stvimpe wrote:
The Pirate wrote:Whoah.... all you people that pressed the "like" button. What I suspect you're hoping is not that you all find some common ground, but that all the people who disagree with you, come over to your way of thinking. And that's not going to happen, is it?

And if it did, just exactly how boring would that make this group?

No, what needs to be done is the moderators to stop getting in the middle of a bunch of adults who can, surely, fight their own battles.



No, what needs to be done is we members taking our responsibility. Sure, we are adults - or we are supposed to be - able to fight our own battles, but that is entirely besides the point. The bickering is annoying, boring, irritating and senseless. It pushes people away, causes them to leave FECC or makes them refrain from engaging in discussions. We don't have to agree about everything, but discussions should be respectful. And that's a shared responsibility. It takes two to tango.

But as I said, what people want is not for everyone to get along, but for everyone to agree with their point of view. It's the Internet, it's not going to happen. If you can find me a forum as large as this, with as many people posting as regularly as this, where everybody gets along and which isn't as boring as hell, then please point me to it.

Re: 2017 - Unity and Brother/Sisterhood in the FECC communit

Mon Dec 05, 2016 1:45 pm

The Pirate wrote:But as I said, what people want is not for everyone to get along


That's what I'm asking.


The Pirate wrote:but for everyone to agree with their point of view. It's the Internet, it's not going to happen.


As it shouldn't.. This is NOT what I'm asking. Not at all. Not only would that go against what this community stands for, it also would freeze any meaningful discourse. Rendering a discussion community impotent.



The Pirate wrote:If you can find me a forum as large as this, with as many people posting as regularly as this, where everybody gets along and which isn't as boring as hell, then please point me to it.


The argument is moot. I'm not at all asking for this to be a community of people who all agree with each other. And I doubt anyone else is wishing for that to pass. All I'm asking is that personal attacks and thread derailment cease. That is all. We are all adults. I don't believe that to be a tall order.


Your argument really has nothing to do with the attempted goal trying to be achieved.
It would be like a chef of restaurant announcing that there would be french fries added to the menu..Then the next day, there would be a guy outside picketing "restaurant xyz is going to force everyone to eat ketchup. Say no to french fries!! You can't force us to eat ketchup!!!"

Re: 2017 - Unity and Brother/Sisterhood in the FECC communit

Mon Dec 05, 2016 4:17 pm

The Pirate wrote: If you can find me a forum as large as this, with as many people posting as regularly as this, where everybody gets along and which isn't as boring as hell, then please point me to it.


Yes there are ones out there and I know as I belong to one, and no I'm not sharing it on here as don't want to ruin it!

Re: 2017 - Unity and Brother/Sisterhood in the FECC communit

Mon Dec 05, 2016 10:21 pm

Maybe this forum is too big to self contain itself in a way that's not going to be as simple as some would wish.

That's just the price most forums pays once they get to a certain size. Most, not all.

I've been a reader of this forum for a very long time. I know it started using the phpbb format in about 2003, but I remember reading the forum in a guise it had prior to that, so nearly 20 years!
As a reader (Yes, I accept now that it's not the same as participating) the best years were around a decade ago circa 2005 / 2007. Hilarious, informative -and addictive!
But why? What made it so? I don't know if I know. I could blurt out some names, some blasts from the past but that wouldn't necessarily be fair on those who are probably just as good today.

I've already had it on here with posting. Yeah, give it time, grow some thick skin etc etc. But my life is short, not as short as being run over by a bus tomorrow, so it's long enough for me to plan (unless I get run over by a bus tomorrow) and I plan to do without the sh*t one gets on here. That is a shame I know, but only a shame.
But when you're told what to post, what not to post, how to post it, how not to post it by long term established member(s)....then what's the point?

So I'm going back to being a casual reader for the time I have left. It may or may not have been a mistake to post on here but I admit to doing so knowing the score before I did. I used to be member on a forum I loved but left knowing what was happening to me. I joined here not giving a sh*t because if it don't work out I don't care. I say I don't care - I care enough to post this and tell you about it, but that's about it.

Jordan, you are looking for utopia, but so you should. This was the only Elvis forum that stood a chance of being utopia in the world of Elvis forums. It stood a chance - but it was a fat chance in the end.
You can't tell people not to act like dickheads and expect them to do as you request.
If you really want a chance of getting close to utopia then you might have to act in a way that gets this place back to where it was 10 years ago, mods /admins might have to reverse the way they currently deal with things. But I'm saying "might" and I'm not a person who has the positive answers, I only have negative answers. I know what you shouldn't be doing but I don't necessarily know what you should be doing.

Best of luck to all of you. You all have it within you to turn this place around, you have the ability (the can) but do you have the desire (the want)? The answer to that will only roll out on a daily basis over time.
Now do I hit the Submit button after typing this or just delete it? Okay, here goes

Re: 2017 - Unity and Brother/Sisterhood in the FECC communit

Tue Dec 06, 2016 8:40 am

Thanks Jordan, and thank you for all the work you do here. I know it cannot be easy moderating an online forum with users of so many backgrounds and opinions.

There's a reason I've been taken periodic hiatuses in the past from posting since I joined FECC. And yet, of my comment history, the last 22 pages (of only 27!) worth of comments have been in just a little over the last year. I have to admit... often in response (and sometimes in an overreaction - see the Hound Dog thread) to this sort of behavior you've mentioned.

I love FECC. It's a wealth of information and has a solid sense of shared community that no other Elvis forum or gathering online has. Everyone here is intelligent and either has a deep knowledge of Elvis' life and career, or has a desire to learn. That isn't even the case in Elvis Facebook groups. We have thoughtful, in-depth conversations here that I would sorely miss anywhere else, even "in real life."

However, I've tried my best to ignore it where I can, especially these last three months, but even this week, I merely shared some relevant information and was attacked for it, and told I had an "agenda." For merely posting something relevant to a conversation. Others took it and ran with it one way or another but I was left feeling like maybe it would have been better if I hadn't posted it at all. I've only been a "regular" poster here for a little over a year and I can't imagine how someone who is only just joining the community might be made to feel.

I'm sorry to rant and this is the last you'll hear of any of my concerns regarding these issues, but these are the sort of grievances that don't get aired in any meaningful way, they either end up directed at other posters (thereby perpetuating the cycle... and often spreading into other threads) or they go unspoken entirely and people just give up and leave the board.

I, too, desperately would love to see this change and for everyone to come together but I think that requires a little self-awareness and maturity on everyone's behalf. I don't want people to agree with me, I just want to not be attacked, not only in regards to holding different opinions but apparently for just posting on topic because someone doesn't like the information presented. Where is the line drawn for that sort of behavior? Is this thread the line? I think most everyone feels the same way and just wants to have their opinions respected. But showing and receiving respect on FECC might mean admitting to yourself that maybe your opinion isn't the only right one. Can everyone here really do that? Just some thoughts to chew on. I don't expect an answer, and don't expect one from me if anyone replies.

Anyway, I am the eternal optimist and look forward to seeing how the future of FECC pans out. With this being the 40th year since Elvis's passing, it will certainly be a busy one. Maybe it will be a nicer one, too.

I commit to neither adding nor reacting to the back and forth from here on out. For the foreseeable future, I'll be taking an ignorance is bliss approach and you'll probably only hear from me regarding the short film or any other Elvis-related project I've got going on.

Good luck to everyone else.

-Justin G.

Re: 2017 - Unity and Brother/Sisterhood in the FECC communit

Tue Dec 06, 2016 8:47 am

I promise to try harder to behave myself in 2017.

No guarantees, but I will try.

Re: 2017 - Unity and Brother/Sisterhood in the FECC communit

Tue Dec 06, 2016 4:17 pm

I will try not to get rattled when condescension, stubbornness, personal attacks, and baiting comes my way.

Re: 2017 - Unity and Brother/Sisterhood in the FECC communit

Tue Dec 06, 2016 4:51 pm

Thanks a lot, Jordan, for your wonderful post.

Re: 2017 - Unity and Brother/Sisterhood in the FECC communit

Tue Dec 06, 2016 10:51 pm

Sorry, but I don't share your optimism, Jordan. This place is no better than the outside world, and one can't expect it to be. There's people who are angry and bitter, there's people who are full of double standards, there's people who are incapable of introspection and there's people who are followers and dependent on having mentors. Around 15% of the population suffer from personality disorders btw. and it's probably not fewer here I'd presume. So take this forum for what it is and remember there's a lot of positive things going on around here too. As it is.

One thing can be done though, the guidelines should apply to all.

Re: 2017 - Unity and Brother/Sisterhood in the FECC communit

Tue Dec 06, 2016 11:28 pm

While the idea of everyone on the forum getting on is lovely, alas I don't think that's ever likely to happen. That's not me being pessimistic, but realistic - and it isn't all the fault of the members either. But the way things are run here are never going to allow for it to happen, unless things at that higher level change to some degree. I will attempt to explain further in the hope that this is a thread we can openly discuss things without them being deleted.

We all know that the moderating system simply doesn't work. Some people can get away with murder, and some can get away with nothing. While some people get suspended for minor flirtations with rule-breaking, others do not but, instead, have moderators going around with a dustpan and brush, cleaning up after them each time they say something they shouldn't so we can all pretend it didn't happen - for the 100th time. We also all know of people who were banned one day only to return the very next day with a new name ready to stir the pot again. Sure, let them come back after a year or maybe six months - but allowing them straight back in is just pointless. Why ban them in the first place?

Now, I'm not saying I'm an innocent in all this, because I'm not, but a forum such as this is no different to any other society - if the powers that be treat some people one way, and some people are treated another, then resentment kicks in and people take matters into their own hands, and that's where the bickering starts. And we all know that this is what is occurring here. If the guidelines are there, they need to be enforced for everyone, not just the privileged view. If someone is breaking the rules, then they should get the same level of punishment no matter who they are. Likewise, if someone is being insulted, then that should be treated equally, no matter who THEY are. I'm not saying that I envy the job of the moderators, whoever they may be, but they need to enforce the rules that the rest of us have to follow - and the idea that their decisions can't be questioned is nuts. We might be here free of charge, and we might choose to be here, but a dictatorship does no-one any favours.

As for the behaviour of us members, the vast majority of nastiness occurs as a result of petty, ridiculous comments repeated over and over with a view to do nothing but bait other members. The constant references to "Fel-Tone", Padre, My Boy, and pledges causes more rancour and bad tempers here than any subject of substance - but the goodwill of 95% of the board isn't going to allow everyone to get on if the other 5% persists with such childishness and such stupidity. Sure, the 95% can ignore the baiting, but why should they? It's the baiters that need to change their ways, not those being baited. In the end, when you take those people out of the equation, the boards run much smoother. They barely post in the Off-topic, chat, or classic artist sections of the board, and those sections run pretty nicely without interference from anyone. Despite the numerous political topics of recent months, they have required less interference from mods than a topic about your favourite Elvis film!

While we'd all like Jordan's vision of the board to come true, the truth of the matter is that too many people have got away with too much for too long and, as has been stated earlier in the topic, a polite request isn't going to change people's behaviour, especially if a suspension has not been effective. I'm not in favour of a repeat of "the night of the long knives" as a cull here from nearly a decade ago has been referred to, especially if the wrong members get culled, but perhaps it's the only way to get Jordan's view of harmony. There are people here who add little (if anything) to discussions and whose primary objective seems to be to simply disrupt everyone else's attempt to have a conversation. While those people still exist, sadly "Utopia" isn't going to happen. If this was a facebook group, for example, they would have been booted months, if not years, ago. Is that what we want? No. But is it the only way to get back to some form of order here? Quite possibly. Asking some people to play nicely is rather like asking Donald Trump to stay off Twitter - it ain't going to happen.

I know that's not the answer that Jordan wants to his comments, which I respect and understand. But in order for FECC to move on, it has to face up to its problems realistically. You can't expect bullies not to bully just because you ask them not to. And there is going to be resentment if one bully gets punished less than the other just because he's a nephew of the headmaster, so to speak. Unless those that are in charge of monitoring behaviour on the boards can clean up THEIR act and behave fairly to all members, I don't see it happening elsewhere among the members themselves.

On the plus side, I hope that this thread allows these things to FINALLY be aired on the boards, so that members can at least come together and air their views on the subject of monitoring and rules and guidelines and suspensions and so on. Those things are not allowed to be discussed under normal circumstances, and if some of those grievances that bubble under on these boards every day can be aired and discussed in a productive way, then we might move a step closer to Jordan's ambitions.

For my part, I'm still in favour of a "thumbs down" button, so that members can voice their dislike of certain behaviour without having to reply to it or without having to report it. I know this idea was knocked on the head some time ago, but if the boards are in bad a shape as has been suggested, then I don't see why it shouldn't be given a go. A thumbs down button which requires the user to choose WHY it's getting a thumbs down, from a drop-down list like the report button would perhaps be more effective. For example, choose from personal attack, baiting, off-topic, etc. But then again the thumbs down button only works if everyone can see how many times it's been pressed (as you can on Youtube for example). At least this way, the members can at least attempt to police themselves and have an option beyond going to mods.

Re: 2017 - Unity and Brother/Sisterhood in the FECC communit

Wed Dec 07, 2016 2:22 am

egilj wrote:Sorry, but I don't share your optimism, Jordan. This place is no better than the outside world, and one can't expect it to be. There's people who are angry and bitter, there's people who are full of double standards, there's people who are incapable of introspection and there's people who are followers and dependent on having mentors. Around 15% of the population suffer from personality disorders btw. and it's probably not fewer here I'd presume. So take this forum for what it is and remember there's a lot of positive things going on around here too. As it is.

One thing can be done though, the guidelines should apply to all.


That's all true, and nobody here who posts here is completely without blame BUT the forum has never been so angry/sarcastic etc as it is at the moment. I remember it being shut for a few days at one point so that everyone could calm down, and everyone was getting on prior to that better than they are now. It seems there are people here at the moment who come to the forum not to add something credible to a discussion but to simply make a sarcastic remark, repeat an old joke, or simply taunt/rile a member.

On another point: Jordan, I don't think, considering where you've posted this, many of the community are going to see it. I didn't notice it until today because I don't look in the Announcements section on a regular basis. I'm not sure where it should go. I know it doesn't belong in "All Elvis" but I don't see any reason why it shouldn't go there if you want people to see it. It's an important issue, and you're the guy that makes this place run (literally).

Re: 2017 - Unity and Brother/Sisterhood in the FECC communit

Wed Dec 07, 2016 4:56 am

The Pirate wrote:But as I said, what people want is not for everyone to get along, but for everyone to agree with their point of view. It's the Internet, it's not going to happen. If you can find me a forum as large as this, with as many people posting as regularly as this, where everybody gets along and which isn't as boring as hell, then please point me to it.


You tell me about that avatar of yours, and I'l find you that forum. ;-)


Image

Re: 2017 - Unity and Brother/Sisterhood in the FECC communit

Wed Dec 07, 2016 6:46 am

egilj wrote:Sorry, but I don't share your optimism, Jordan. This place is no better than the outside world, and one can't expect it to be. There's people who are angry and bitter, there's people who are full of double standards, there's people who are incapable of introspection and there's people who are followers and dependent on having mentors. Around 15% of the population suffer from personality disorders btw. and it's probably not fewer here I'd presume. So take this forum for what it is and remember there's a lot of positive things going on around here too. As it is.

One thing can be done though, the guidelines should apply to all.

I said I'd try!

Re: 2017 - Unity and Brother/Sisterhood in the FECC communit

Wed Dec 07, 2016 1:20 pm

drjohncarpenter wrote:
The Pirate wrote:But as I said, what people want is not for everyone to get along, but for everyone to agree with their point of view. It's the Internet, it's not going to happen. If you can find me a forum as large as this, with as many people posting as regularly as this, where everybody gets along and which isn't as boring as hell, then please point me to it.


You tell me about that avatar of yours, and I'l find you that forum. ;-)


Image




Comedy gold...

Re: 2017 - Unity and Brother/Sisterhood in the FECC communit

Wed Dec 07, 2016 3:06 pm

Rob wrote:I promise to try harder to behave myself in 2017.

No guarantees, but I will try.



If that means no pics anymore of those great legs of yours that would be a damn shame Rob.... ::rocks