Here you can discuss other musicians and CD reissues etc

Charlie Rich - Behind Closed Doors

Wed Apr 27, 2011 12:33 am

What a great album!

Neglected this one for so long but it is a real gem. Said to be one of Presley's favourites and he played it, and the great single "The Most Beautiful Girl", over and over in late 1973 when he was recovering from his near-death episode and his divorce. It's clear it influenced Elvis' next sessions. I've always felt they were a bit of a lame attempt to copy Rich's success in this countrypolitan style - the song quality is far superior to some of the tunes Elvis was cutting at Stax.

But yes, some of the vocals are just exquisite on this album. If you are any kind of fan of Elvis' 70s work (which most of you probably are) and don't have this album - then I guarantee you will love it.

Re: Charlie Rich - Behind Closed Doors

Thu Apr 28, 2011 11:28 am

I like that song and ive just come across another gem well to me, but it has jimmy ellis on it and its called caught in the middle, would love to hear just charlie rich singin this song.

Re: Charlie Rich - Behind Closed Doors

Thu Apr 28, 2011 2:12 pm

It's funny. I like this LP OK but I really like Charlie's 50's and 60's stuff a lot better. Silver Linings and the Silver Fox were really good though as was The Fabulous Charlie Rich and Boss Man.

Re: Charlie Rich - Behind Closed Doors

Thu Apr 28, 2011 3:40 pm

Always liked Charlie Rich,he cut some classic tracks in the 1970s

Re: Charlie Rich - Behind Closed Doors

Thu Apr 28, 2011 10:41 pm

He did a great version of this;



http://www.youtube.com/embed/4wFwq-6-9ZA

Re: Charlie Rich - Behind Closed Doors

Fri Apr 29, 2011 12:18 am

It took me awhile to warm to Charlie's style circa Behind Closed Doors because it was so MOR, but it's great MOR. "A Sunday Kind of Woman" is a beautiful song written by Margaret Ann, and gotta love a song that says "peace in the valley, peace in the sea, peace to all the little children and me, and peace on you".

Re: Charlie Rich - Behind Closed Doors

Fri Apr 29, 2011 1:54 am

jacob wrote:He did a great version of this;



http://www.youtube.com/embed/4wFwq-6-9ZA

That's my Charlie!
The Smash stuff may even be better then his Phillips.

Re: Charlie Rich - Behind Closed Doors

Fri Apr 29, 2011 8:46 am

I agree, Charlie's Smash sides are among the best I've ever heard. He was doin' alright at Sun, though. Besides the obvious "Lonely Weekends", there was "Break Up", and "Who Will the Next Fool Be, and others. He could sing any style.

Re: Charlie Rich - Behind Closed Doors

Sat Apr 30, 2011 6:49 am

Charlie Rich was a wonderful, unique singer and musician. He could handle R&B, blues, country, rock, pop and jazz with ease, and he also got his start at Sun Records!

If you hear Charlie's 1959 Sun hit "Lonely Weekends," you will catch a major Elvis influence.

And Rich's 1961 Sun recording of "Who Will The Next Fool Be" is sheer perfection.

Charlie was on the Groove, RCA, Smash and Hi labels through the 1960s before landing at Epic Records. There, the singer hit very big in the 1970s with tracks like "Behind Closed Doors" and "The Most Beautiful Girl."

Did you know that Elvis' favorite album when he was in Baptist Memorial in October 1973, recovering from an overdose, was Charlie's Behind Closed Doors?

Image

Note that Elvis' Stax recordings that year of "Take Good Care of Her," "Girl Of Mine" and "Thinking About You" were attempts to emulate Charlie's hit country-pop style of the time.

And Charlie released a cover of "America The Beautiful" in March 1976 -- are we detecting a pattern here?


phpBB [video]



I love the fact that, at the legendary Beatles visit to the Presley home on August 27, 1965, they found that Elvis had mastered the prominent bass line that runs through "Mohair Sam" (Smash 1993), noting that he was playing it on a Fender bass when they met.


650700_Smash 1993a_Rich.JPG


Elvis also enjoyed the flip side of that Charlie Rich 45 -- "I Washed My Hands In Muddy Water" -- which is likely the "Muddy Water" reference alluded to by the group after the visit.


650700_Smash 1993b_Rich.JPG


And, of course, Elvis cut a wonderfully furious version of "I Washed My Hands In Muddy Water" in June 1970. And Presley was probably quite aware of Rich's masterful 1963 recording of "Big Boss Man," since his 1970s performances echo Rich's arrangement.

Elvis would've done a nice job on "Mohair Sam," as he cut plenty of Dallas Frazier songs with success. However, to "best" Rich, Presley would have been wise to choose a different arrangement.
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.
Last edited by drjohncarpenter on Tue May 06, 2014 10:03 am, edited 3 times in total.

Re: Charlie Rich - Behind Closed Doors

Sat Apr 30, 2011 7:34 am

drjohncarpenter wrote:Charlie Rich was a wonderful and unique singer and musician. He could handle R&B, blues, country, rock, pop and jazz with ease, and it's neat got his start at SUN Records!

If you hear Charlie's 1959 SUN hit "Lonely Weekends," you will catch a major Elvis influence. And Rich's later SUN cut of "Who Will The Next Fool Be" from 1961 is sheer perfection.

Charlie was on the Groove, RCA, Smash and Hi labels through the 1960s before landing at Epic Records. There, the singer hit very big in the 1970s with tracks like "Behind Closed Doors" and "The Most Beautiful Girl."

Did you know that Elvis' favorite album when he was in Baptist Memorial in October 1973, recovering from an overdose, was Charlie's Behind Closed Doors LP?

Image

Note that Elvis' 1973 Stax recordings of "Take Good Care of Her," "Girl Of Mine" and "Thinking About You" are attempts to emulate Charlie's hit country-pop style of the time.

And Charlie released a cover of "America The Beautiful" in March 1976 -- are we detecting a pattern here?


phpBB [video]




I love the fact that, at the famous Beatles visit to the Presley home on August 27, 1965, they found that Elvis had mastered the prominent bass line that runs through "Mohair Sam" (Smash 1993), playing it on his Fender bass when they met.


Image


Elvis also enjoyed the flip side of that Charlie Rich 45 -- "I Washed My Hands In Muddy Water" -- which is likely the "Muddy Water" reference alluded to by the group after the visit.

And, of course, Elvis cut a wonderfully furious version of "I Washed My Hands In Muddy Water" in June 1970. And Elvis was probably quite aware of Charlie's 1963 recording of "Big Boss Man," since his 1970s performances echo Rich's arrangement.


You should change your name to Professor. Thanks for the great information Doc. I've played Lonely Weekends and non Elvis fans think it's Elvis. I picked up a greatest hits LP (yes LP) a couple of years ago. I should try and find a copy of Behind Closed Doors.

Re: Charlie Rich - Behind Closed Doors

Sat Apr 30, 2011 9:35 am

Lonely Summer wrote:I agree, Charlie's Smash sides are among the best I've ever heard. He was doin' alright at Sun, though. Besides the obvious "Lonely Weekends", there was "Break Up", and "Who Will the Next Fool Be, and others. He could sing any style.

Yes the Phillips/Sun stuff is terrific too. So are the Groove/RCA and Hi recordings. I do like some of the Epic stuff but my favorite stuff of his personally was from 1958-70.

Re: Charlie Rich - Behind Closed Doors

Sat Apr 30, 2011 2:07 pm

Great post, Doc. Who Will The Next Fool Be (on which Charlie is backed by some of the A-Team EP was working with) is wonderful and could've easily slotted onto Something For Everybody.

Did Elvis also base his performance of You Can Have Her on Rich's cut?

In some ways, it's a shame Rich is remembered more for the MOR material he cut in the 70s than anything he did previously.

Re: Charlie Rich - Behind Closed Doors

Sat Apr 30, 2011 2:41 pm

I think Elvis based it on Roy Hammilton's version.

Isn't funny but to me a lot of great singers aren't remembered for or didn't get real big until after their prime creatively.

Tina Turner (w Ike)
Michael Jackson (with his brothers)
Steve Marriott (with Small Faces)
Kenny Rogers (W First Edition)
Wilie Nelson (pre 1976)

Re: Charlie Rich - Behind Closed Doors

Sat Apr 30, 2011 3:19 pm

Love Charlie. I have some albums ("The Silver Fox" a. o.) and the "Complete Smash Sessions" CD as well as the Bear Family Box (highly recommended!). I love his voice, which comes, in my opinion, closest to Elvis without imitating him, as it was his own warm, unique singing voice.

I love "There Won't Be Anymore" (check out the demo on the Bear Box!), "She Called Me Baby", "On My Knees", "Life Has Its Little Ups And Downs", "Who Will The Next Fool Be", "A Field Of Yellow Dasies" very very much!

And every time I felt low, I'd just put on "The Best Years" and I even felt worse! :D

Gotta check out, which songs Charlie recorded, as well as Elvis.
So far without checking I can only recall:
- Spanish Eyes (Charlie's version is great!)
- Pieces Of My Life (of course! Charlie used to end his concerts with this song)
as well as some songs on his "Silver Linings" album.

Have a nice (and hopefully no lonely) weekend! ::rocks

Re: Charlie Rich - Behind Closed Doors

Sat Apr 30, 2011 10:30 pm

I had the great privelage of seeing Charlie's son in concert back in 1993. Back then he went as Alan Rich - now he's gone back to his birth name, Charlie Rich, Jr. He had a band with Billy Swan (and yes, they did a note perfect version of "I Can Help") and Randy Meisner (former Poco/Eagles/Stone Canyon Band). Was really impressed with Charlie's....uh....Junior's?....piano and vocals. They eventually put out a cd titled "Meisner, Swan and Rich". Not easy to find, but it's out there.

Re: Charlie Rich - Behind Closed Doors

Sat Apr 30, 2011 10:50 pm

londonflash wrote:Did Elvis also base his performance of You Can Have Her on Rich's cut?

In some ways, it's a shame Rich is remembered more for the MOR material he cut in the 70s than anything he did previously.

The 70s hits are great material, even if lushly produced. "You Can Have Her" had been revived by a few artists in the 1973-74 period, although Elvis had to have known Charlie's version.


Mike Eder wrote:Isn't funny but to me a lot of great singers aren't remembered for or didn't get real big until after their prime creatively.

Tina Turner (w Ike)
Michael Jackson (with his brothers)
Steve Marriott (with Small Faces)
Kenny Rogers (W First Edition)
Wilie Nelson (pre 1976)

Michael Jackson was past his prime when he went solo?

Off The Wall (1979) and Thriller (1982) are two of his finest albums.
Last edited by drjohncarpenter on Sun May 01, 2011 10:28 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Re: Charlie Rich - Behind Closed Doors

Sun May 01, 2011 11:44 am

drjohncarpenter wrote:
londonflash wrote:Did Elvis also base his performance of You Can Have Her on Rich's cut?

In some ways, it's a shame Rich is remembered more for the MOR material he cut in the 70s than anything he did previously.

The 70s hits are great material, even if lushly produced. "You Can Have Her" had been revived by a few artists in the 1973-74 period, although Elvis had to have known Charlie's version.


Mike Eder wrote:Isn't funny but to me a lot of great singers aren't remembered for or didn't get real big until after their prime creatively.

Tina Turner (w Ike)
Michael Jackson (with his brothers)
Steve Marriott (with Small Faces)
Kenny Rogers (W First Edition)
Wilie Nelson (pre 1976)

Michael Jackson was past his prime when he went solo?

Off The Wall (1979) and Thriller (1983) are two of his finest albums.

Well he did leave the Jacksons at the end of 1984 though after Thriller it was hardly a real group. Going on the late 1984 date yes I stick to all he did after that not being his prime. However I think I need to further explain what I mean,
The LP's you mention were excellent and creative (especally Off The Wall) but I feel Destiny from 1978 and Triumph from 1980 equal them and helped Michael find the sound he got with Quincy. They are overshadowed as far as public awareness goes today, but at the time they were highly acclaimed and innovative pieces of work. They truly stand the test of time. Michael was still very involved and commited to the group on Triumph and the 1981 Jacksons tour which was voted one of the best tours ever in Rolling Stone in 1987. Thriller is what I see as the real end of The Jacksons era (despite Victory) because after that he was in a position where he couldn't (or wouldn't) be a democratic part of a group. He was always the most important but he was a real team player until then.
I also think it was less flash and more about the music from 1969-81.
He did 21 albums during that time with his brothers and solo (and they were on all of his early solo work even in 1978-79 with Randy on Off The Wall) and after Thriller did six if you want to count Victory and Blood On The Dancefloor. At Motown they only released about a thrid of what they actually cut. Plus in addition to those two very acclaimed Jacksons LP's, the ABC, Third Album, Maybe Tomorrow, Get It Together, Dancing Machine, plus the 1981 live LP, are very strong albums. His first two "solo" albums were also quite good (Got To Be There and Ben) and was Jermaines self titled debut which had the brothers (including Michael of course) on them. Plus the 1969-80 singles were almost all excellent with only a handful not being up to standard.
I think the music Michael made from Thriller on (especally Thriller) has it's merits but it's a very different sound and a very different sort of artist. An artist who I feel is so much less approachable and exhuberent then he had been with his family.

Re: Charlie Rich - Behind Closed Doors

Sun May 01, 2011 10:09 pm

Mike Eder wrote:
drjohncarpenter wrote:
londonflash wrote:Did Elvis also base his performance of You Can Have Her on Rich's cut?

In some ways, it's a shame Rich is remembered more for the MOR material he cut in the 70s than anything he did previously.

The 70s hits are great material, even if lushly produced. "You Can Have Her" had been revived by a few artists in the 1973-74 period, although Elvis had to have known Charlie's version.


Mike Eder wrote:Isn't funny but to me a lot of great singers aren't remembered for or didn't get real big until after their prime creatively.

Tina Turner (w Ike)
Michael Jackson (with his brothers)
Steve Marriott (with Small Faces)
Kenny Rogers (W First Edition)
Wilie Nelson (pre 1976)

Michael Jackson was past his prime when he went solo?

Off The Wall (1979) and Thriller (1983) are two of his finest albums.

Well he did leave the Jacksons at the end of 1984 though after Thriller it was hardly a real group. Going on the late 1984 date yes I stick to all he did after that not being his prime. However I think I need to further explain what I mean,
The LP's you mention were excellent and creative (especally Off The Wall) but I feel Destiny from 1978 and Triumph from 1980 equal them and helped Michael find the sound he got with Quincy. They are overshadowed as far as public awareness goes today, but at the time they were highly acclaimed and innovative pieces of work. They truly stand the test of time. Michael was still very involved and commited to the group on Triumph and the 1981 Jacksons tour which was voted one of the best tours ever in Rolling Stone in 1987. Thriller is what I see as the real end of The Jacksons era (despite Victory) because after that he was in a position where he couldn't (or wouldn't) be a democratic part of a group. He was always the most important but he was a real team player until then.
I also think it was less flash and more about the music from 1969-81.
He did 21 albums during that time with his brothers and solo (and they were on all of his early solo work even in 1978-79 with Randy on Off The Wall) and after Thriller did six if you want to count Victory and Blood On The Dancefloor. At Motown they only released about a thrid of what they actually cut. Plus in addition to those two very acclaimed Jacksons LP's, the ABC, Third Album, Maybe Tomorrow, Get It Together, Dancing Machine, plus the 1981 live LP, are very strong albums. His first two "solo" albums were also quite good (Got To Be There and Ben) and was Jermaines self titled debut which had the brothers (including Michael of course) on them. Plus the 1969-80 singles were almost all excellent with only a handful not being up to standard.
I think the music Michael made from Thriller on (especally Thriller) has it's merits but it's a very different sound and a very different sort of artist. An artist who I feel is so much less approachable and exhuberent then he had been with his family.

Another excellent post, Mike, and I wish I had time to respond, but I'm off to band practice with a drummer that only knows one beat - and it's not even a good one!

Re: Charlie Rich - Behind Closed Doors

Sun May 01, 2011 10:18 pm

Lonely Summer wrote:
Mike Eder wrote:
drjohncarpenter wrote:
londonflash wrote:Did Elvis also base his performance of You Can Have Her on Rich's cut?

In some ways, it's a shame Rich is remembered more for the MOR material he cut in the 70s than anything he did previously.

The 70s hits are great material, even if lushly produced. "You Can Have Her" had been revived by a few artists in the 1973-74 period, although Elvis had to have known Charlie's version.


Mike Eder wrote:Isn't funny but to me a lot of great singers aren't remembered for or didn't get real big until after their prime creatively.

Tina Turner (w Ike)
Michael Jackson (with his brothers)
Steve Marriott (with Small Faces)
Kenny Rogers (W First Edition)
Wilie Nelson (pre 1976)

Michael Jackson was past his prime when he went solo?

Off The Wall (1979) and Thriller (1983) are two of his finest albums.

Well he did leave the Jacksons at the end of 1984 though after Thriller it was hardly a real group. Going on the late 1984 date yes I stick to all he did after that not being his prime. However I think I need to further explain what I mean,
The LP's you mention were excellent and creative (especally Off The Wall) but I feel Destiny from 1978 and Triumph from 1980 equal them and helped Michael find the sound he got with Quincy. They are overshadowed as far as public awareness goes today, but at the time they were highly acclaimed and innovative pieces of work. They truly stand the test of time. Michael was still very involved and commited to the group on Triumph and the 1981 Jacksons tour which was voted one of the best tours ever in Rolling Stone in 1987. Thriller is what I see as the real end of The Jacksons era (despite Victory) because after that he was in a position where he couldn't (or wouldn't) be a democratic part of a group. He was always the most important but he was a real team player until then.
I also think it was less flash and more about the music from 1969-81.
He did 21 albums during that time with his brothers and solo (and they were on all of his early solo work even in 1978-79 with Randy on Off The Wall) and after Thriller did six if you want to count Victory and Blood On The Dancefloor. At Motown they only released about a thrid of what they actually cut. Plus in addition to those two very acclaimed Jacksons LP's, the ABC, Third Album, Maybe Tomorrow, Get It Together, Dancing Machine, plus the 1981 live LP, are very strong albums. His first two "solo" albums were also quite good (Got To Be There and Ben) and was Jermaines self titled debut which had the brothers (including Michael of course) on them. Plus the 1969-80 singles were almost all excellent with only a handful not being up to standard.
I think the music Michael made from Thriller on (especally Thriller) has it's merits but it's a very different sound and a very different sort of artist. An artist who I feel is so much less approachable and exhuberent then he had been with his family.

Another excellent post, Mike, and I wish I had time to respond, but I'm off to band practice with a drummer that only knows one beat - and it's not even a good one!

That can be a problem! Take care.
Last edited by Mike Eder on Sun May 01, 2011 10:53 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Re: Charlie Rich - Behind Closed Doors

Sun May 01, 2011 10:25 pm

Mike Eder wrote:
drjohncarpenter wrote:Michael Jackson was past his prime when he went solo?

Off The Wall (1979) and Thriller (1982) are two of his finest albums.

Well he did leave the Jacksons at the end of 1984 ...

At the very least, most consider Thriller when Michael was no longer an integral member. His branching out in 1979 was a clear point of demarcation.
Last edited by drjohncarpenter on Sun May 01, 2011 10:28 pm, edited 3 times in total.

Re: Charlie Rich - Behind Closed Doors

Sun May 01, 2011 10:26 pm

Lonely Summer wrote:
Mike Eder wrote:
drjohncarpenter wrote:
londonflash wrote:Did Elvis also base his performance of You Can Have Her on Rich's cut?

In some ways, it's a shame Rich is remembered more for the MOR material he cut in the 70s than anything he did previously.

The 70s hits are great material, even if lushly produced. "You Can Have Her" had been revived by a few artists in the 1973-74 period, although Elvis had to have known Charlie's version.


Mike Eder wrote:Isn't funny but to me a lot of great singers aren't remembered for or didn't get real big until after their prime creatively.

Tina Turner (w Ike)
Michael Jackson (with his brothers)
Steve Marriott (with Small Faces)
Kenny Rogers (W First Edition)
Wilie Nelson (pre 1976)

Michael Jackson was past his prime when he went solo?

Off The Wall (1979) and Thriller (1983) are two of his finest albums.

Well he did leave the Jacksons at the end of 1984 though after Thriller it was hardly a real group. Going on the late 1984 date yes I stick to all he did after that not being his prime. However I think I need to further explain what I mean,
The LP's you mention were excellent and creative (especally Off The Wall) but I feel Destiny from 1978 and Triumph from 1980 equal them and helped Michael find the sound he got with Quincy. They are overshadowed as far as public awareness goes today, but at the time they were highly acclaimed and innovative pieces of work. They truly stand the test of time. Michael was still very involved and commited to the group on Triumph and the 1981 Jacksons tour which was voted one of the best tours ever in Rolling Stone in 1987. Thriller is what I see as the real end of The Jacksons era (despite Victory) because after that he was in a position where he couldn't (or wouldn't) be a democratic part of a group. He was always the most important but he was a real team player until then.
I also think it was less flash and more about the music from 1969-81.
He did 21 albums during that time with his brothers and solo (and they were on all of his early solo work even in 1978-79 with Randy on Off The Wall) and after Thriller did six if you want to count Victory and Blood On The Dancefloor. At Motown they only released about a thrid of what they actually cut. Plus in addition to those two very acclaimed Jacksons LP's, the ABC, Third Album, Maybe Tomorrow, Get It Together, Dancing Machine, plus the 1981 live LP, are very strong albums. His first two "solo" albums were also quite good (Got To Be There and Ben) and was Jermaines self titled debut which had the brothers (including Michael of course) on them. Plus the 1969-80 singles were almost all excellent with only a handful not being up to standard.
I think the music Michael made from Thriller on (especally Thriller) has it's merits but it's a very different sound and a very different sort of artist. An artist who I feel is so much less approachable and exhuberent then he had been with his family.

Another excellent post, Mike, and I wish I had time to respond, but I'm off to band practice with a drummer that only knows one beat - and it's not even a good one!


Sounds like me!

Re: Charlie Rich - Behind Closed Doors

Sun May 01, 2011 10:55 pm

drjohncarpenter wrote:
Mike Eder wrote:
drjohncarpenter wrote:Michael Jackson was past his prime when he went solo?

Off The Wall (1979) and Thriller (1982) are two of his finest albums.

Well he did leave the Jacksons at the end of 1984 ...

At the very least, most consider Thriller when Michael was no longer an integral member. His branching out in 1979 was a clear point of demarcation.

I agree as I mentioned Thriller marked the end of the Jacksons era and also was a big change for him musically. I suppose I was being technical.

Re: Charlie Rich - Behind Closed Doors

Sun May 01, 2011 11:22 pm

Great post on Charlie Rich there Doc.

He had an amazing voice. Very much like Elvis in his versatility. I just adore "The Most Beautiful Girl". It's one of those records that is just perfectly crafted in every way. From the acoustic intro, to the little piano run after the first line, the way the backing singers come in "...tell her i need my baby" and to Rich's soaring note on "and if you did, WAS she crying. All the little nuances and moments in a song that just make it a classic.

Re: Charlie Rich - Behind Closed Doors

Mon May 02, 2011 1:59 am

Good Time Charlie wrote:Great post on Charlie Rich there Doc.

He had an amazing voice. Very much like Elvis in his versatility. I just adore "The Most Beautiful Girl". It's one of those records that is just perfectly crafted in every way. From the acoustic intro, to the little piano run after the first line, the way the backing singers come in "...tell her i need my baby" and to Rich's soaring note on "and if you did, WAS she crying. All the little nuances and moments in a song that just make it a classic.


Called that track up on the ipod earlier on, love it.

You're spot on with your assessment of this song.

Think I'll listen to it again.

Re: Charlie Rich - Behind Closed Doors

Mon May 02, 2011 8:33 am

londonflash wrote:
Good Time Charlie wrote:Great post on Charlie Rich there Doc.

He had an amazing voice. Very much like Elvis in his versatility. I just adore "The Most Beautiful Girl". It's one of those records that is just perfectly crafted in every way. From the acoustic intro, to the little piano run after the first line, the way the backing singers come in "...tell her i need my baby" and to Rich's soaring note on "and if you did, WAS she crying. All the little nuances and moments in a song that just make it a classic.


Called that track up on the ipod earlier on, love it.

You're spot on with your assessment of this song.

Think I'll listen to it again.

Me, too. Used to sing it to my girlfriend.