In this section you can submit questions to people that knew Elvis, or to other important people in the Elvis World.

Sandi: What Really Happened?

Sun Sep 13, 2009 12:53 am

Hi Sandi, I read with interest your comments on EP's personality and temperament which ot me thinking about that last 12 months when the "Elvis - What Happened" book idea was leaked, then had excerpts released in the gossip magazines, then finally the releaity of the book when it appeared on bookshelves on August 1st.
I recall reading you saw EP in September 1976 and June 1977 - perhaps there were more occasions you saw him privately.
Was there any discussion about this book or the Wests with Elvis or those around?
How did Elvis handle the notion of that book? Was he preoccupied with it?
Late Spring through Summer 1976 in my opinion seems to be the worst period for Elvis' overall health. I can appreciate the Wests being alarmed during this time. Was there much discussion about Elvis' health directly with him or amongst the group? Do you have an opinion on what it was that made Elvis allow himself to get in to that shape?

In both scenarios it seems to an outsider like me that there were some issues Elvis really struggled to deal with to the point where he would stick his head in the sand and let everything turn to ****. I can't imagine what his life was like especially in those periods where he must have felt like everyone was taking pot shots at him (eg, the media about some performances, his appearance, the West's book) all in such a public manner. By the same token it's also difficult to accept that it appears he did little to take control and change things for the better (although in the last few months of '76 it seems Elvis lost a fair few kiols of weight to prove the Wests wrong perhaps). It's not like he was contracted four years in advance like the movies. During this time did Elvis ever speak of the type of challenge he'd like, or a goal he'd yet to achieve?

Sorry for the negativity of this topic, but I wanted to ask you these because from times when I have spoken with other EP fans, the circumstances surrounding his death and his death itself often leaves them shaking their head saying "What a waste" or "It was so unnecessary", or as tom Jones says in 1987's The Echo Will Never Die "How could that happen"? Answers help to reconcile the many unanswered questions many of us have.

Thanks Sandi.

Re: Sandi: What Really Happened?

Sun Sep 13, 2009 6:16 am

Y'know, as understandable as the West's actions were, I have to think that the betrayal of Red West, a friend of Elvis' since high school, must have sent EP into a deep existential despair.

Put yourself in his shoes for a moment. You're Elvis Presley and you've had life-long trust issues. You're hungry for connection, and you love being around people, having their love and reflecting it back, yet you've always been a little weary of the outside world, and since ascending to fame, of a type utterly without precedent in the modern world, going overnight from a down-trodden momma's boy to the hottest name on the planet, suddenly everyone wants to know you, and seemingly take something from you. Worse, you have your foibles and your eccentricities that may occasionally trouble you, and you remain vigilant about how much others get to apprehend of your innermost thoughts and feelings, and this mix constantly simmers in your head, putting you on a constant kind of mental guard, causing you to wonder when rejection might come next, and from what quarter. Before you know it, it's 1976 and your youth is spent. You've had highs and lows, good times and bad. And now some of your worst fears are about to be realised -- one of the people closest to you, one of the people who defended you at school, one of the people who wrote songs for you, one of the people who would even have taken a bullet for you, one of the people you had almost allowed yourself to believe would never turn against you, would ne... well, now that person was turning, now that bond had been broken, now that trust had been destroyed, now that person was going to spill your secrets to the world and there wasn't a god damn thing you could do about it.

Red West's betrayal, more than anyone's or anything else, must have confirmed things that Elvis always felt, "way on down". Fears he had always struggled to allay, fears he now never would. "If Red can do this to me, anyone can! Anyone can, anyone will!" Sadly, I get the inescapable sense that that must have been how it unfurled and found expression in Elvis' mind. If he was in a bad head space those last 12-18 months, a book like this, the first of its kind (at least, for Elvis), as well as who was (primarily) behind it, must have been a terrible millstone around his neck. Betrayal: it took a quarter of a century, but it got there. Yeah, I think Elvis' thoughts were something like that. The irony is that he was probably so hamstrung by the very personal nature of this turn of events, and what the book was going to recall, omit, embellish and distort, that he not only didn't deal with his destructive tendencies that crashed this ship in the first place, and his side in the complex equation of Red's revenge, but became even more destructive, and now he had an even bigger smokescreen of emotions and emotional rationalisations and sideshows that distracted and occluded his mind from all but the most vestigial hope of introspection. What was written, in part, to get Elvis to see the folly in what he was doing (it may be too much to say "the error of his ways"), engendered the opposite reaction, and pushed Elvis further down the well of depression, inviting him to take further consolation in chemical substances, the false consolations of false friends, driven, in part, by the real truths of a real friend, the spurned half of a relationship gone bad, with failure, denied behind an edifice of ego, pride, anger and resentment, on both sides.

Well, Sandi, if anyone can provide compassionate illumination, it's you, I think. Very good topic, Jim. The 76-77 Elvis is the most attacked and weather-worn, but arguably the least understood.

Re: Sandi: What Really Happened?

Sun Sep 13, 2009 8:07 pm

Great post Cryo, but how must've Red felt when his friend of over 20 years gets his father to sack him, giving him 1 weeks pay in lieu of service?.

Re: Sandi: What Really Happened?

Sun Sep 13, 2009 8:27 pm

WOW!!! I'm waiting for this one. Great post JD.
Cryo........are you a writer by profession? Outstanding post!!! :smt006 ::rocks

Deb

Re: Sandi: What Really Happened?

Mon Sep 14, 2009 7:52 pm

Cryogenic wrote:Y'know, as understandable as the West's actions were, I have to think that the betrayal of Red West, a friend of Elvis' since high school, must have sent EP into a deep existential despair.

Put yourself in his shoes for a moment. You're Elvis Presley and you've had life-long trust issues. You're hungry for connection, and you love being around people, having their love and reflecting it back, yet you've always been a little weary of the outside world, and since ascending to fame, of a type utterly without precedent in the modern world, going overnight from a down-trodden momma's boy to the hottest name on the planet, suddenly everyone wants to know you, and seemingly take something from you. Worse, you have your foibles and your eccentricities that may occasionally trouble you, and you remain vigilant about how much others get to apprehend of your innermost thoughts and feelings, and this mix constantly simmers in your head, putting you on a constant kind of mental guard, causing you to wonder when rejection might come next, and from what quarter. Before you know it, it's 1976 and your youth is spent. You've had highs and lows, good times and bad. And now some of your worst fears are about to be realised -- one of the people closest to you, one of the people who defended you at school, one of the people who wrote songs for you, one of the people who would even have taken a bullet for you, one of the people you had almost allowed yourself to believe would never turn against you, would ne... well, now that person was turning, now that bond had been broken, now that trust had been destroyed, now that person was going to spill your secrets to the world and there wasn't a god damn thing you could do about it.

Red West's betrayal, more than anyone's or anything else, must have confirmed things that Elvis always felt, "way on down". Fears he had always struggled to allay, fears he now never would. "If Red can do this to me, anyone can! Anyone can, anyone will!" Sadly, I get the inescapable sense that that must have been how it unfurled and found expression in Elvis' mind. If he was in a bad head space those last 12-18 months, a book like this, the first of its kind (at least, for Elvis), as well as who was (primarily) behind it, must have been a terrible millstone around his neck. Betrayal: it took a quarter of a century, but it got there. Yeah, I think Elvis' thoughts were something like that. The irony is that he was probably so hamstrung by the very personal nature of this turn of events, and what the book was going to recall, omit, embellish and distort, that he not only didn't deal with his destructive tendencies that crashed this ship in the first place, and his side in the complex equation of Red's revenge, but became even more destructive, and now he had an even bigger smokescreen of emotions and emotional rationalisations and sideshows that distracted and occluded his mind from all but the most vestigial hope of introspection. What was written, in part, to get Elvis to see the folly in what he was doing (it may be too much to say "the error of his ways"), engendered the opposite reaction, and pushed Elvis further down the well of depression, inviting him to take further consolation in chemical substances, the false consolations of false friends, driven, in part, by the real truths of a real friend, the spurned half of a relationship gone bad, with failure, denied behind an edifice of ego, pride, anger and resentment, on both sides.

Well, Sandi, if anyone can provide compassionate illumination, it's you, I think. Very good topic, Jim. The 76-77 Elvis is the most attacked and weather-worn, but arguably the least understood.


**There is just no way I can add to this post-if I didn't know better, I'd say you were the proverbial "fly on the wall" and the eyes into his heart. It's one thing for the media to misunderstand you or for people you don't know try to hang you, but when it comes from your own friends - that's a tough pill to swallow and Elvis definately had some deep seated insecurities to begin with when it came trusting people..I know he was deeply hurt when those close to him betrayed him for ANY reason, even if it was done with the best intentions or not.

Again- amazing insight!

Re: Sandi: What Really Happened?

Tue Sep 15, 2009 6:49 am

Wonderful post, Cryo.

Red's betrayal presented Elvis with the biggest challenge of his life.
Considering Elvis' frail physical and mental state in 1977, it must have been a
more formidable challenge than overcoming his mother's death.
Ironically, it was Red who helped Elvis overcome that earlier challenge.

In all deference to Sandy, the one person who I would like to chime in here
would be Red West.

Re: Sandi: What Really Happened?

Wed Sep 16, 2009 2:13 am

Loyalty & Betrayal are two-way streets.

Trust me, . . . . EP also knew that every word in that book (EWH?) was true.

elvis_red_west_germany.jpg


-----

Jim Dandy -

EP was obsessed with the book in his final days and it caused many a sleepless night for our hero (again, see my comments, above).

In 1976, when EP's denial led him to push away the last remaining / experienced, "lifers" . . . . . he turned down the wrong critical fork in the road and set into motion all that was to (unfortunately) follow.



N8

Re: Sandi: What Really Happened?

Wed Sep 16, 2009 4:01 am

Sorry but I still don't think he hated Jews or Blacks. which was claimed in that so called true book. I also think again it's the "we were angels trying to help him" syndrome. That's a laugh. There were things in the book that had truth to them, but Dunleavy took out most of the humanity. I mean it's claimed that Red was a big reason Elvis was succesful as an artist. Leaving out the lawsuits they caused was a big ommission, nope it was not a fair book. Elvis fired them, maybe because he didn't like what they (allegedly) were telling him, but maybe he didn't like being sued either. He did it in a cowardly fashion but I am convinced Red and Sonny would have been back by the end of 1976 had no book been writen. I have said before that Red may have been confident to confront Elvis, but Dave and Sonny (and Lamar, and Marty etc etc.) wouldn't have had the nerve.

Re: Sandi: What Really Happened?

Wed Sep 16, 2009 8:40 am

Mike Eder wrote:Sorry but I still don't think he hated Jews or Blacks. which was claimed in that so called true book. I also think again it's the "we were angels trying to help him" syndrome. That's a laugh. There were things in the book that had truth to them, but Dunleavy took out most of the humanity. I mean it's claimed that Red was a big reason Elvis was succesful as an artist. Leaving out the lawsuits they caused was a big ommission, nope it was not a fair book. Elvis fired them, maybe because he didn't like what they (allegedly) were telling him, but maybe he didn't like being sued either. He did it in a cowardly fashion but I am convinced Red and Sonny would have been back by the end of 1976 had no book been writen. I have said before that Red may have been confident to confront Elvis, but Dave and Sonny (and Lamar, and Marty etc etc.) wouldn't have had the nerve.


The book is definitely skewed and sensationalistic, but its core content has no lies.

EP dissected this book meticulously and saw the truth staring right back at his face . . . . shaking the very foundation of his monumental wall of denial.

This topic, understandably, also hits an emotional nerve with the fandom (which I sense a lot of from your post).

Sorry, but I don't see it as pure betrayal by Red West. Rather, I see it as a friend (Red) who was hurt by another friend (EP) first, who went too far one time too many.

I count Red West as the only true "friend" - in the truest sense of the word - who actually tried to do something to save EP's life and shake him out of his denial (that said, I don't agree with how he chose to do it, but then again, I've never walked in his shoes, either).

EP's dismissing them had very little to do with the lawsuits and everything to do with being confronted - in his face - about his drug use . . . and denial.

Elvis-What.jpg


Generally speaking, there is an element of fandom denial that is still confronted by this topic / book - even today.


N8

Re: Sandi: What Really Happened?

Wed Sep 16, 2009 10:17 am

With friends like Red West, who needs enemies?

Re: Sandi: What Really Happened?

Wed Sep 16, 2009 12:51 pm

Luuk wrote:With friends like Red West, who needs enemies?


I'm with you, Luuk.

Their "power over Elvis" must have been enormous; they knew so many private things about him. There was so much they could use against him. So in a way getting rid of them was pretty bold. He took a great risk, but felt he needed to do it anyway.

Re: Sandi: What Really Happened?

Wed Sep 16, 2009 2:17 pm

Mike Eder wrote:Sorry but I still don't think he hated Jews or Blacks. which was claimed in that so called true book. I also think again it's the "we were angels trying to help him" syndrome. That's a laugh. There were things in the book that had truth to them, but Dunleavy took out most of the humanity. I mean it's claimed that Red was a big reason Elvis was succesful as an artist. Leaving out the lawsuits they caused was a big ommission, nope it was not a fair book. Elvis fired them, maybe because he didn't like what they (allegedly) were telling him, but maybe he didn't like being sued either. He did it in a cowardly fashion but I am convinced Red and Sonny would have been back by the end of 1976 had no book been writen. I have said before that Red may have been confident to confront Elvis, but Dave and Sonny (and Lamar, and Marty etc etc.) wouldn't have had the nerve.

Is it written in the book that Elvis hated blacks and jews?

Re: Sandi: What Really Happened?

Wed Sep 16, 2009 2:32 pm

N880EP wrote:
Mike Eder wrote:Sorry but I still don't think he hated Jews or Blacks. which was claimed in that so called true book. I also think again it's the "we were angels trying to help him" syndrome. That's a laugh. There were things in the book that had truth to them, but Dunleavy took out most of the humanity. I mean it's claimed that Red was a big reason Elvis was succesful as an artist. Leaving out the lawsuits they caused was a big ommission, nope it was not a fair book. Elvis fired them, maybe because he didn't like what they (allegedly) were telling him, but maybe he didn't like being sued either. He did it in a cowardly fashion but I am convinced Red and Sonny would have been back by the end of 1976 had no book been writen. I have said before that Red may have been confident to confront Elvis, but Dave and Sonny (and Lamar, and Marty etc etc.) wouldn't have had the nerve.


The book is definitely skewed and sensationalistic, but its core content has no lies.Again my big problem with the book is that it states that Elvis had Jewish and Black prejudice. It's a core element that I don't think is the truth

EP dissected this book meticulously and saw the truth staring right back at his face . . . . shaking the very foundation of his monumental wall of denial.I have writen this before but I think that his hurt went beyond anything with pills or temper etc. He was very private and I think something like detailing the breakup of his marriage and the hard times he went through then mentally had to have been far more hurtful.

This topic, understandably, also hits an emotional nerve with the fandom (which I sense a lot of from your post)Maybe I can't 100 percent, but I do try to see the situation outside of how I feel about Elvis personally. I honestly feel that however wrongly Elvis dismissed them privately, taking the rift to the next level by going public was a whole other thing .

Sorry, but I don't see it as pure betrayal by Red West. Rather, I see it as a friend (Red) who was hurt by another friend (EP) first, who went too far one time too many.Red went too far as well. The main thing I don't respect about him (at least as far as the book) is that he failed to own up to problems he caused through the years. I don't see him as a bad person, (his actions since 1977 have been very honorble) but his temper caused trouble at times .

I count Red West as the only true "friend" - in the truest sense of the word - who actually tried to do something to save EP's life and shake him out of his denial (that said, I don't agree with how he chose to do it, but then again, I've never walked in his shoes, either). For all I said I do think Red had more guts when it came to Elvis then most. That doesn't mean he was always a supportive friend himself his dismissal of Elvis' spritual seatch etc.

EP's dismissing them had very little to do with the lawsuits and everything to do with being confronted - in his face - about his drug use . . . and denial.
Again I can only picture Red telling Elvis he was doing something wrong about anything. It could have been the case with him but not Sonny and Dave. Elvis told people Sonny was getting on his nerves... recently he didn't like when Sonny pressured him about flying his wife in .Dave he didn't trust and is on tape saying so. Ed Parker apperently told Elvis to be careful. Still none of these reasons connect the three as far as why they got fired at the same time. There was a thread connecting the three and it wasn't their bravery. The only way l can connect them together is that they had caused lawsuits. I don't think Elvis would have just fired them all if there wasn't a reason, and I just don't see Sonny and Dave having a heart to heart with Presley. John O' Grady said he and Vernon encouraged Elvis to let them go. O'Grady never shied away from talking about Elvis problems so why would he have lied about that?
Elvis-What.jpg


Generally speaking, there is an element of fandom denial that is still confronted by this topic / book - even today.

In 1977 that was very true, but now enough things have come out to where Red, Sonny, and Dave can be questioned as much as validated. I think for most of us that condem the book it's more about why it exists then what's in it.

N8

Re: Sandi: What Really Happened?

Wed Sep 16, 2009 2:52 pm

Xaykev wrote:
Mike Eder wrote:Sorry but I still don't think he hated Jews or Blacks. which was claimed in that so called true book. I also think again it's the "we were angels trying to help him" syndrome. That's a laugh. There were things in the book that had truth to them, but Dunleavy took out most of the humanity. I mean it's claimed that Red was a big reason Elvis was succesful as an artist. Leaving out the lawsuits they caused was a big ommission, nope it was not a fair book. Elvis fired them, maybe because he didn't like what they (allegedly) were telling him, but maybe he didn't like being sued either. He did it in a cowardly fashion but I am convinced Red and Sonny would have been back by the end of 1976 had no book been writen. I have said before that Red may have been confident to confront Elvis, but Dave and Sonny (and Lamar, and Marty etc etc.) wouldn't have had the nerve.

Is it written in the book that Elvis hated blacks and jews?

Page 302 and 313.

Re: Sandi: What Really Happened?

Wed Sep 16, 2009 3:05 pm

The core element of the book spoke the truth.

You need not look any further than ----> August 16, 1977

newspaper.jpg




N8

Re: Sandi: What Really Happened?

Wed Sep 16, 2009 3:36 pm

Mike Eder wrote:
Xaykev wrote:
Mike Eder wrote:Sorry but I still don't think he hated Jews or Blacks. which was claimed in that so called true book. I also think again it's the "we were angels trying to help him" syndrome. That's a laugh. There were things in the book that had truth to them, but Dunleavy took out most of the humanity. I mean it's claimed that Red was a big reason Elvis was succesful as an artist. Leaving out the lawsuits they caused was a big ommission, nope it was not a fair book. Elvis fired them, maybe because he didn't like what they (allegedly) were telling him, but maybe he didn't like being sued either. He did it in a cowardly fashion but I am convinced Red and Sonny would have been back by the end of 1976 had no book been writen. I have said before that Red may have been confident to confront Elvis, but Dave and Sonny (and Lamar, and Marty etc etc.) wouldn't have had the nerve.

Is it written in the book that Elvis hated blacks and jews?

Page 302 and 313.

Thanks, Mike.

Re: Sandi: What Really Happened?

Wed Sep 16, 2009 4:27 pm

In 1958 or 1959 the US Military officials requested that Elvis sent one of his friends back to the USA because he continuously started fights. In 1976 the same problem with this friend starting fights occurred. And who got sued? Not this friend, but Elvis because he was hired by Elvis!

Re: Sandi: What Really Happened?

Wed Sep 16, 2009 4:56 pm

Luuk wrote:In 1958 or 1959 the US Military officials requested that Elvis sent one of his friends back to the USA because he continuously started fights. In 1976 the same problem with this friend starting fights occurred. And who got sued? Not this friend, but Elvis because he was hired by Elvis!


This same "fight guy" was the one who also protected EP in the restroom back at Humes High and countless other times; EP had a reason that he depended on Red.

It's human nature to remember / focus on the hits . . . . and forget the misses (no pun intended).

Red's dismissal was due to his confronting Elvis about his addictions and the lawsuits were a convenient excuse. It was a message for the boys to back off . . . . and once they did, they could have eventually come back (if the lawsuits were the real reason, their return would not have been an option).



N8

Re: Sandi: What Really Happened?

Wed Sep 16, 2009 7:53 pm

What always made me wonder is that Elvis kicked out all the guys he knew from Humes yet stayed friends with the people he became friends with when he was in the Army. Any reason for that?

Re: Sandi: What Really Happened?

Sat Sep 19, 2009 1:37 am

Luuk wrote:In 1958 or 1959 the US Military officials requested that Elvis sent one of his friends back to the USA because he continuously started fights. In 1976 the same problem with this friend starting fights occurred. And who got sued? Not this friend, but Elvis because he was hired by Elvis!


Thats not fair on Red.
You dont know the full story of the way Red was treated by Elvis.

Luuk wrote:What always made me wonder is that Elvis kicked out all the guys he knew from Humes yet stayed friends with the people he became friends with when he was in the Army. Any reason for that?


Proberly cause his friends from Humes High cared for Elvis and didnt like the fact Elvis was getting too involved with prescribed medication and told him to his face and Elvis didnt like anyone telling him what he was doing was wrong.
Elvis should have listened to his friends and by not doing that, paid with his life.

The other guys like Esposito and Hodge, with all due respect to them, they were 'yes men', sort of guys that would do anything for Elvis (or Parker in Esposito's case) and wouldnt dare question what Elvis was doing to his body which is why he kept them on.

Re: Sandi: What Really Happened?

Sun Sep 20, 2009 4:09 pm

Thanks Sandi, always love to hear it fom someone who was there and didn't have a personal agenda.

Re: Sandi: What Really Happened?

Mon Sep 21, 2009 2:13 am

N880EP wrote:Loyalty & Betrayal are two-way streets.


They are -- and far be it from me to contend your sagacity, but ...

As bad as EP's actions were, two wrongs don't make a right. If every last person on Earth followed the odious maxim, "an eye for an eye", we'd be f*cked.

Moreover, I'd say that what Red did, even if he'd done it with the best of intentions (I, rather, think it was a positive sense of desperation for his friend and brother clouded with the negative sh*t-storm of anger and retribution), was a whole order of magnitude worse than what Elvis did to him. As hard as it is to defend EP's actions, it's even harder to defend Red's.

Most people would go ballistic if a former friend went and spilled their private details to the world, let alone if they were one of the most famous people in the world who prided themselves on an honest, good life, even a life horribly tainted by drugs, guns, bouts of mania and other sad shadows. Better yet, not only were all these details being fashioned into a single tell-all book, but augmented, so to speak, with scurrilous lies. I know how sensitive some people can be over milder things. I know how sensitive *I* can be. And this was conscious spillage to the max.

Yes, we should try and walk a mile in Red's shoes, but we should do the same for Elvis -- and his are the bigger boots to fill.

Re: Sandi: What Really Happened?

Mon Sep 21, 2009 4:46 am

Cryogenic wrote:They are -- and far be it from me to contend your sagacity, but ...


You just did.

-----

I view it as Red fighting for a friend's life and am actively choosing not to view the situation thru the lens of celebrity worship.

That said, mistakes were made on both sides and I've already stated that I don't agree with the route Red chose to take.

EP did indeed go ballistic, but behind the anger . . . . was a very deep hurt. But you know what, the addiction was hurting EP more . . . . and Red knew that very well (going all the way back to the days before EP was ever a "celebrity").


N8

Re: Sandi: What Really Happened?

Mon Sep 21, 2009 11:49 am

N880EP wrote:
Cryogenic wrote:They are -- and far be it from me to contend your sagacity, but ...


You just did.


No, really?

N880EP wrote:I view it as Red fighting for a friend's life and am actively choosing not to view the situation thru the lens of celebrity worship.


It isn't celebrity worship. It's empathy for another person, and respect for their privacy and dignity (such as it was, back then).

If you need to clutch that strawman, then clutch it.

N880EP wrote:That said, mistakes were made on both sides and I've already stated that I don't agree with the route Red chose to take.


Yes, mistakes were truly made on both sides. Elvis could not act with impunity and avoid the consequences forever. In this sense, and because Red cared for his friend and could see where that road was going, he was totally justified in trying to do something about it. But he chose badly. After being spurned and screwed over by his friend, he went one better and betrayed that friend in the deepest possible way.

N880EP wrote:EP did indeed go ballistic, but behind the anger . . . . was a very deep hurt. But you know what, the addiction was hurting EP more . . . . and Red knew that very well (going all the way back to the days before EP was ever a "celebrity").


If Red knew Elvis as well as you say, then he should have realised that running to a third party and laying it on the line in a trashy polemic was never going to work. In fact, it was liable to have the opposite reaction, and did, putting Elvis' back against the wall, forcing him further into depression and denial, such was his nature, and making another overdose more likely, not less. Note: I'm not blaming Red for EP's final overdose in any sense (as you've said, it was a long time coming, and Red was trying to avert it, not cause it); the blame for that rested in the hands of the person popping the pills. But Red's plan was massively, heinously, flawed.

And since you used the word again: celebrity only enters the frame in terms of EP's fame. In short, as you've pretty much said, this book was designed for the purpose of, and succeeded at, hitting him where it hurt. However, it went beyond drugs. The book wasn't, and isn't, merely an expose of his drug addiction, but also a seedy tell-all tome about his private life, his indulgences, his temper and his misdemeanors (with salacious lies and half-truths for good measure). Imagine if someone went and did that to you. "Hey, world! The N8 you think you know is a fraud. He's a bastard, he's out of control, he's done this, and this, and this..." Truth is critical, but it can also be used as a weapon, to back stab, maim and destroy.

Re: Sandi: What Really Happened?

Mon Sep 21, 2009 12:27 pm

Cryogenic wrote:It isn't celebrity worship. It's empathy for another person, and respect for their privacy and dignity (such as it was, back then).

If you need to clutch that strawman, then clutch it.


From the tone and passion of your posts on this thread, we will just have to agree to disagree.


N8