All posts with more than 3000 Hits, prior to 2008

Sat Jul 28, 2007 5:22 am

Robt wrote:hey Doc,

But then again it could be a splice of both the dinner and midnight shows?

Hope not.

Sat Jul 28, 2007 5:45 am

Robt wrote:hey Doc and Monkboughtlunch,

While i'm not exactly a Tunzi fan, i find myself in the ironic position of coming
to his defense . Tunzi may have been correct with track listing details as per his SESSIONS saga, it could be a splice of both the dinner and midnight shows? This cannot be dismissed just yet. Thus far, none of the promotional amazon material and their like, defines one way or the other. Guess we'll just have to wait
and see what it says on the actual packaging when it surfaces.


Good points. It seems unlikely they would butcher a show, but ahem, didn't they edit LILV disc 1? So, this is of course a possibility.

However, my guess is that it's one complete show and Tunzi just didn't have full access to the tape boxes and was guessing.

If we accept that the Happy B-day on Collector's Gold is in fact from the MS, the proof is significant that this new disc is the MS. The impromptu off the cuff Surrender clinches it.

But what is perplexing is that someone posted that the inside of the booklet says it is the DS (below). This would seem to support your theory of a spliced show.

YDKM wrote:well from the disc notes they say this:-DISC 2 Previously unreleased concert, recorded at The International Hotel in Las Vegas, August 21, 1969 D.S.
Elvis introduces the Tiplers from Crown Electric during his monolgue
Just because Elvis sings happy birthday to James Burton doesn't have to mean it is the M/S... i believe he sang that at BOTH shows performed this date.Of cource its 'highly likely' that Tunzi's EXACT set list for this show could well be wrong! i'm glad i ordered this CD...i havn't recieved this -yet , but in actual fact i'm even more excited thinking that if its the D/S...then really ALL of the show i wouldn't have heard before!!!! :lol:

Sat Jul 28, 2007 5:52 am

Not neccesarily. Whoever wrote the booklet may be incorrect.

One way to resolve this is if the DOC has both shows on audience recordings
he can probably do a song-by-song breakdown and comapre it with
the forthcoming V.L.V 1969 show. How about it DOC?

Sat Jul 28, 2007 5:54 am

Yes a typo is very likely. But we can't yet discount your theory; however, remote it may be.

But, as I understand it, didn't Doc say the Dinner Show wasn't recorded anyway?

Then case closed.

Sat Jul 28, 2007 6:51 am

Hello,

monkboughlunch wrote:

However, my guess is that it's one complete show and Tunzi just didn't have full access to the tape boxes and was guessing.


Did you ever think that just maybe Tunzi has a tape of the show as well as the other eleven? The information he lists in Sessions III isn't just pulled off of tape boxes. In many cases, he has tapes himself. Why do you think he was the first to document the '69 shows in their entirety, the February '70 recordings, the August '70 TTWII recordings, the February '72 material and all the March-May '77 material. You just don't pull that kind of information out of thin air.

Daryl

Daryl

Sat Jul 28, 2007 6:54 am

I emailed him once a few years ago and he stated that some of his setlists were guesswork because he didn't always have access to the RCA logs.

How do you explain the discrepancies?

Sat Jul 28, 2007 7:17 am

Hello,

The reason there are discrepancies with regard to these shows is in the manner in which they were recorded. You might only have 20 minutes per tape before it ran out. If an additional tape wasn't up and running prior to the first tape running out, there might be portions of dialogue and/or songs missing. Examples of this also occur in August 1970. For example, the August 13, 1970 Dinner Show version of "Sweet Caroline" is incomplete due to this problem. If Ernst were to chose to put this show out in the future, he would have to decide whether to leave it as is with a incomplete performance or edit the partial performance out altogether.

How this applies to the 1969 shows is 100 times worse than August 1970 due to several reasons:

1. The masters that were selected from the August 1969 recordings at the time were cut out of their respective show, quite literally.

2. To reassemble these shows back together, one must listen closely to dialogue, which can be difficult given that Elvis' dialogue for these shows was very similiar to the other shows.

3. Even if you do listen closely to the dialogue, there's no telling how much dialogue is missing.

4. With regard to the '69 shows, you're dealing with trying to match 12 shows together. With August '70, you're only dealing with 6 shows.

I contacted Tunzi this evening regarding this show and was informed that it is in fact the "Dinner Show", as he played it and compared it to samples found on Wal-Mart.com.

Daryl

Sat Jul 28, 2007 7:49 am

I no longer have Collectors Gold.

Does it say in the booklet that Surrender and Happy B-day Band Intro are from the MS or the DS?

If from the MS, and Tunzi claims its actually the DS, then maybe the Collector's Gold booklet is wrong.

Clear as mud?

Sat Jul 28, 2007 7:50 am

Daryl,

and the "happy birthday to james burton" followed by
"Hot damn right"(which to me is identical to COLLECTORS GOLD) is that also from the Dinner Show too?

Sat Jul 28, 2007 7:55 am

Daryl wrote:Hello,

The reason there are discrepancies with regard to these shows is in the manner in which they were recorded. You might only have 20 minutes per tape before it ran out. If an additional tape wasn't up and running prior to the first tape running out, there might be portions of dialogue and/or songs missing. Examples of this also occur in August 1970. For example, the August 13, 1970 Dinner Show version of "Sweet Caroline" is incomplete due to this problem. If Ernst were to chose to put this show out in the future, he would have to decide whether to leave it as is with a incomplete performance or edit the partial performance out altogether.

How this applies to the 1969 shows is 100 times worse than August 1970 due to several reasons:

1. The masters that were selected from the August 1969 recordings at the time were cut out of their respective show, quite literally.

2. To reassemble these shows back together, one must listen closely to dialogue, which can be difficult given that Elvis' dialogue for these shows was very similiar to the other shows.

3. Even if you do listen closely to the dialogue, there's no telling how much dialogue is missing.

4. With regard to the '69 shows, you're dealing with trying to match 12 shows together. With August '70, you're only dealing with 6 shows.

I contacted Tunzi this evening regarding this show and was informed that it is in fact the "Dinner Show", as he played it and compared it to samples found on Wal-Mart.com.

Daryl


These are all good points. I don't know how Pachuki recorded these 69 shows. But it was common practice in the late 60s that when recording live concerts the engineer would have two tape decks, each with staggered start times, so as to have complete show coverage during tape changes.

There could be operator error and the a song could be missed as you note.

If the 8 tracks on some shows were actually cut to create In Person, I don't believe they would have touched the tapes from the 21st, as nothing was culled for In Person from those shows right?

Sat Jul 28, 2007 7:58 am

Robt wrote:Daryl,

and the "happy birthday to james burton" followed by
"Hot damn right"(which to me is identical to COLLECTORS GOLD) is that also from the Dinner Show too?


my point exactly. either tunzi is wrong and this is the ms. or jorgensen mislabled the band intro on collector's gold as from ms when it was from ds.

Sat Jul 28, 2007 8:46 am

Robt wrote:hey Doc and Monkboughtlunch,
Guess we'll just have to wait
and see what it says on the actual packaging when it surfaces.


That will not help, I have quoted earlier in this very topic what it says.
When you get your copy you shall be no wiser from anything on the packaging.

Sat Jul 28, 2007 9:11 am

monkboughtlunch wrote:I no longer have Collectors Gold.

Does it say in the booklet that Surrender and Happy B-day Band Intro are from the MS or the DS?

If from the MS, and Tunzi claims its actually the DS, then maybe the Collector's Gold booklet is wrong.

Clear as mud?


Tunzi states MS not DS page 276.

Sat Jul 28, 2007 9:19 am

Aww friends,

Damn that EJ for getting the show dates wrong re: "happy birthday James".

For this crime, let's hang him out to dry then on the next day,let's hang him!!
Last edited by Robt on Sat Jul 28, 2007 9:42 am, edited 1 time in total.

Sat Jul 28, 2007 9:27 am

Hey elvis presley scrapbook,

Actuallyi have not yet made up me mind if i'll be getting V.L.V .

My preference would be for the single one that the U.S fans will be treated to after the DESTINATION VEGAS is broadcasted, But only if it's
a markedly better overall show than ELVIS AT THE INTERNATIONAL and
the mixing is sharper.

I think if the DOC (or anyone else) has both complete audience sources
of DS and MS Aug 21 1969, then this new 1969 show can be compared
song by song breakdown with those audience tapes.

Sat Jul 28, 2007 2:39 pm

Hi Everyone !

I've been analyzing this recording and can say it's the Dinner show.
Also since we know Felton had some issues with the sound. which were solved with the Midnight show recording.

They really worked on this release. At the strong points like with "Suspicious minds" you hear on Elvis voice distortion as you can hear over the whole lenght of the recording. Also volume drops at strange points.
I haven't found all the edit cuts yet but I will figure that out tomorrow (this takes some time).

Normally I don't look that deep into the sound but since 69 LV is one of my favorite years, I just have too ;-)

Sat Jul 28, 2007 3:17 pm

HEY!!!! THE KING STILL ROCKS,

Love that title! My friend if i can ask the question: what are the versions of "Memories"
and "Lonesome tonight" like on this new release?. For example does
Elvis performs them seriously or does he fool around with some of
the words?

Sat Jul 28, 2007 3:22 pm

Thekingstillrocks wrote:Hi Everyone !

I've been analyzing this recording and can say it's the Dinner show.
Also since we know Felton had some issues with the sound. which were solved with the Midnight show recording.

They really worked on this release. At the strong points like with "Suspicious minds" you hear on Elvis voice distortion as you can hear over the whole lenght of the recording. Also volume drops at strange points.
I haven't found all the edit cuts yet but I will figure that out tomorrow (this takes some time).

Normally I don't look that deep into the sound but since 69 LV is one of my favorite years, I just have too ;-)


I just dont get it,if there were sound problems why would Bmg release this on main label instead of FTD were it obvious belongs????
If I remember corrcet Bmg recorded 10-12 shows during august 69 engagement.....should be plenty of other shows to choose from.

Sat Jul 28, 2007 3:43 pm

hey KingElvis,

Love that name too. Aaarrrghh so then lets be clear about this - if this newie 1969 show contains certain flaws as described by TKSR (i.e Suspicious minds) and it becomes established that what we have is a composite of the D.S and M.S Aug
21 1969, then i wish to hark back to what i stated on another thread a few
weeks ago: Why yet another 1969 show when BMG/SONY could have
used an unreleased , unedited, Aug 1970 concert for this release? Midnightx are you listening?
Last edited by Robt on Sat Jul 28, 2007 3:56 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Sat Jul 28, 2007 3:56 pm

Ciscoking wrote:
monkboughtlunch wrote:I no longer have Collectors Gold.

Does it say in the booklet that Surrender and Happy B-day Band Intro are from the MS or the DS?

If from the MS, and Tunzi claims its actually the DS, then maybe the Collector's Gold booklet is wrong.

Clear as mud?


Tunzi states MS not DS page 276.


That's interesting. If Tunzi is claiming that this new CD is the dinner show, how does he account for the Surrender snippet and Happy Birthday, both of which he has previously published are from the MS?

Daryl wrote:Hello,



I contacted Tunzi this evening regarding this show and was informed that it is in fact the "Dinner Show", as he played it and compared it to samples found on Wal-Mart.com.

Daryl

Sat Jul 28, 2007 4:15 pm

Would someone be so kind as to post the setlists for the 2 Aug. 21 shows that Tunzi has published?

Sat Jul 28, 2007 6:14 pm

removed by user
Last edited by elvissessions on Sun Aug 26, 2007 7:19 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Sat Jul 28, 2007 6:23 pm

I was just looking at this earlier this morning. That makes it almost certain that we're getting the midnight show, right?

Sat Jul 28, 2007 6:30 pm

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Last edited by elvissessions on Sun Aug 26, 2007 7:19 pm, edited 3 times in total.

Sat Jul 28, 2007 6:32 pm

elvissessions.com wrote:Sessions III lists it this way:

Dinner show
Opening theme/Blue Suede Shoes
I Got a Woman
All Shook Up
Love Me Tender
Jailhouse Rock/Don't Be Cruel
Heartbreak Hotel
Hound Dog
Memories
Mystery Train/Tiger Man
Baby What You Want Me to Do
Runaway
Are You Lonesome Tonight?
Words
Yesterday/Hey Jude
Introductions of the musicians and backup vocalists
In the Ghetto
Suspicious Minds
What'd I Say
Can't Help Falling in Love

Midnight show
Opening theme/Blue Suede Shoes
I Got a Woman
All Shook Up
Love Me Tender
Jailhouse Rock/Don't Be Cruel
Heartbreak Hotel
Hound Dog
I Can't Stop Loving You
My Babe
Mystery Train/Tiger Man
Baby What You Want Me to Do
Runaway
Are You Lonesome Tonight?
Words
Yesterday/Hey Jude
Introductions of the musicians and backup vocalists/Happy Birthday to James Burton (WPA5-2528) [featured on Collectors Gold]
In the Ghetto
Suspicious Minds
What'd I Say
Can't Help Falling in Love

[His note: "An excerpt of Surrender that Elvis sung prior to Are You Lonesome Tonight? during this show was added to the beginning of KPA5-9569 Are You Lonesome Tonight? from the Aug. 26, 1969, midnight show and was subsequently released on Collectors Gold]


Thanks!! So, for quick comparison below is the content of the show on the new 2CD set.

Blue Suede Shoes
I Got A Woman
All Shook Up
Love Me Tender
Jailhouse Rock / Don't Be Cruel
Heartbreak Hotel
Hound Dog
Memories
Mystery Train / Tiger Man
Monologue
Baby What You Want Me To Do
(Surrender) Runaway
Are You Lonesome Tonight?
Yesterday / Hey Jude
Introductions (Happy Birthday James Burton)
In The Ghetto
Suspicious Minds
What'd I Say
Can't Help Falling In Love