CBS 30th Anniversary Book & DVD

It's an incredible version ... even if it was an audience recording).

The 1977 RCA B-side of "America The Beautiful" is an in-line source.

Question Doc: How do you rate Elvis' marvelous rendition on "America the beautiful?"

For the general fan, the performance may be generously seen as a little "over the top."

If Elvis really cared about the song, he would've bothered to learn more than the first verse. A more appropriate choice, given his background, would've been to sing Woody Guthrie's "This Land Is Your Land."

It was not an award, little Monique Brave gave Elvis a MOST ironic gift backstage in Rapid City -- a sacred, Sioux Nation "Medallion of Life."

In your ignorance / haste to denigrate EIC further, I see you omitted a crucial fact from your statement: the "Medallion of Life" isn't necessarily ironic ...

First of all, you miscategorize my statements, which are neither ignorant nor serving to denigrate. This is purely your own inference. My words are an honest assessment of the darkest moments in the career of Elvis Presley. As for your view on the Sioux Nation "Medallion of Life," I suggest you do a little more research.

It was not an award, little Monique Brave gave Elvis a MOST ironic gift backstage in Rapid City -- a sacred, Sioux Nation "Medallion of Life."

In your ignorance / haste to denigrate EIC further, I see you omitted a crucial fact from your statement: the "Medallion of Life" isn't necessarily ironic ...

First of all, you miscategorize my statements, which are neither ignorant nor serving to denigrate. This is purely your own inference. My words are an honest assessment of the darkest moments in the career of Elvis Presley. As for your view on the Sioux Nation "Medallion of Life," I suggest you do a little more research.

It looks like a Medicine Wheel, which is concerned with the endless cycle -- hence wheel / circle -- of life and death. Whether the "Medallion of Life" is a Medicine Wheel or something else, it's similar construction suggests it performs a similar purpose. Therefore, it is not an ironic gift, but a very fitting one. In fact, from an American Indian perspective, I doubt any gift could ever be considered ironic, but any and all as entirely apropos and serving an essential spiritual purpose. That Elvis was given such a magnificent gift at such a time in his life is very touching: "The medicine wheel is a symbol for the wheel of life which is forever evolving and bringing new lessons and truths to the walking of the path. The Earthwalk is based on the understanding that each one of us must stand on every spoke, on the great wheel of life many times, and that every direction is to be honored. Until you have walked in others' moccasins, or stood on their spokes of the wheel, you will never truly know their hearts." (From: http://users.ap.net/~chenae/spirit.html). The much-respected 70's boxset, in being subtitled "Walk A Mile In My Shoes", agrees with this profound sentiment, and Elvis was indeed a changed man in 1977, rendering this gift -- from a spiritual perspective -- more essential than ever. But perhaps you would like to kick down some additional knowledge that you act like you possess. Any time, Doc...

But perhaps you would like to kick down some additional knowledge that you act like you possess.

Your condescending tone fails to mask your insecurity, but is not appreciated in any case.

You may twist around definitions of the Sioux "Medallion of Life" all you wish, but the fact that a ten year-old girl gave Elvis Presley such a gift, and he was dead about 57 days later is ironic. Period.

See ya!

hey doc and cryogenic,

thank you for your responses-

ELVIS FAN versus ELVIS FAN!!!! Tsk, tsk.

Let's try to remember it is coming up to the 30th anniversary
and could we be just a little more understanding and respect of eachother's point of view.

while our point of views of exchanges should remain lively and fun, we
must not get to deep and emotive.

Fellas, please can you resolve your non-Elvis debate regarding some indian
american mythology -whatever it is- amongst yourselves in private?

To the Doc, i appreciate your response to my queries but please appreciate that i am an Australian and it follows
that i do not know the original lyrics of AMERICA THE BEAUTIFUL.

I very much look forward to in future either on the messageboard or
in private, of drawing on your remarkable knowledge, either Elvis or
other artists. You are a rock scholar and this should be commended!

Doc tell me another artiste who recorded a version of it say in the 1960's and 1970's with all of it's lyrics? I'd love to try to find a copy one day?


ALL POWER TO YOU DOC!

If Elvis did not really care about this song as you stated, then howcome
he made a point of performing this from Dec 1975 and carried on
almost exclusively throughout 1976? Also there was the one occasion where he tried to cut a version at the Graceland mansion that we know of.

as i stated in a previous post, there was a possibility that the concert that came out as GOODBYE MEMPHIS which featured "America" was to have been
a RCA 1976 live record that mysteriously got ditched. Got any theories
Doc as to why it was cancelled?

But perhaps you would like to kick down some additional knowledge that you act like you possess.

Your condescending tone fails to mask your insecurity, but is not appreciated in any case.

Nor is your failure to substantiate your original embedded claim (as revealed by proxy: "do a little more research") in any way, shape or form.

You may twist around definitions of the Sioux "Medallion of Life" all you wish, but the fact that a ten year-old girl gave Elvis Presley such a gift, and he was dead about 57 days later is ironic. Period.

There's the proof. You don't actually know any more than I (even less, from the sounds of things).

The great drjohncarpenter has finally been revealed as a fraud.

Not only can you NOT provide knowledge that you alleged a moment ago to possess -- which makes you a selfish and smug individual, amongst other things -- but you fallaciously presume that I am insecure, preposterously diverting attention away from your own faults with a completely random personal attack. Nice try, Doc. You just lost my respect.

Last edited by Cryogenic on Tue Apr 24, 2007 8:36 am, edited 2 times in total.

And what is even more incredible is that some fans on this board would rather see EIC in a deluxe form before footage from some of Elvis' prime years as an artist is issued. That is mind-boggling.

Where has this been said?

Certainly, it is clear a minority of hardcore fans want a release of the train wreck that was the October 1977 CBS-TV Special.

Incorrect.

Try this, a re-edited remastered release of the last professional footage of Elvis Presley on stage. NOT the original CBS-TV Special.

You may twist around definitions of the Sioux "Medallion of Life" all you wish, but the fact that a ten year-old girl gave Elvis Presley such a gift, and he was dead about 57 days later is ironic. Period.

See ya!

Rather unironic I would say, when one considers the Sioux belief of life after death and the Medicine Wheels symbolism of this and other Sioux philosophies.

.....there is a monority that want the original broaadcast version.

Who are these people??? Come forward!
I say they should be publicly flogged.

Watch today's television. You get Kathrina, tsunami's, war's, people dying of hunger. Every problem can be seen crystal clear on your big plasma in surround sound. We don't know any better.

And here, a few people are moaning that's its not proper and more bla bla for not releasing the CBS footage? Looking at a man who was dying. Though, at the moment these concerts were filmed, nobody knew he would actually die within 2 months. It's easy to say afterwards.

And what do we actually see? A man who's a bit overweight, doesn't know all the lyrics.............and more of cheap excuses to keep this in the vaults.

Comparing all the sh*t happening today, EIC is not that shocking to watch. Don't be a pussy.

.....there is a monority that want the original broaadcast version.

Who are these people??? Come forward!
I say they should be publicly flogged.

People ? See, you do know more than you're letting on. I wasn't confident it was plural.

Well there was the guy who worked for the post office and the other dude who went with his Mommy.......I guess they would like a pristine copy for posterity.

<< The guy who jaws got hold of him>> could do with a copy, just to cheer him up!

Fellas, please can you resolve your non-Elvis debate regarding some indian american mythology ...

There is no debate, Cryo was a little confused about the definition of irony. He may still be mixed up, but I tried my best.

... i am an Australian and it follows that i do not know the original lyrics of AMERICA THE BEAUTIFUL.

No problem! But be aware that most songs usually offer more than a single verse.

I very much look forward to in future either on the messageboard or in private, of drawing on your remarkable knowledge, either Elvis or other artists. You are a rock scholar and this should be commended!

Doc tell me another artiste who recorded a version of it say in the 1960's and 1970's with all of it's lyrics? I'd love to try to find a copy one day?

ALL POWER TO YOU DOC!

Robt -- flattery will get you everywhere. Thank you for the very kind words.

The 1961 Ray Charles recording of "America The Beautiful" is wonderful.

... howcome he made a point of performing this from Dec 1975 and carried on almost exclusively throughout 1976?

Well, not almost exclusively -- "America The Beautiful" was heard about 90 times between December 1975 and December 1976, on tour, in Las Vegas and Lake Tahoe. That's less than half the shows.

Presley seemed to lose interest during the month of May -- about 4 tries -- but it appeared again a lot during his summer tours. He hardly sang it at all in November and December, with just 8 known versions.

Why was it in there at all? Well, Elvis was excited about America's Bicentennial Anniversary, and he wanted to honor it in some fashion. And, about half the time, he did it with "America The Beautiful."

there was a possibility that the concert that came out as GOODBYE MEMPHIS which featured "America" was to have been a RCA 1976 live record that mysteriously got ditched. Got any theories Doc as to why it was cancelled?

There was no such plan. The source for July 5, 1976 is a soundboard, not a multi-track. Felton Jarivs would've had the multi-track recorders set up at the Mid-South Coliseum for a scheduled live RCA LP, as they did in 1972 (NV, NY), 1973 (HI) and 1974 (TN). There was a half-baked plan to do a hybrid live/studio record in late December 1975, but it never came off.

Hey Doc,

thank you for response. I appreciate your comments.
O.K I better explain this re. myself. I am NOT an Elvis
purists/completist. It is not economical to be it as i also
alternate between Elvis, various other legendary 50's and 60's artists and as of this moment
tennis collecting, but i cannot be all three at the same time, which as i'm sure you can appreciate
takes some considerable time and effort. Hell i don't even have a
desire to acquire any ofthe recent batch of FTD's anymore.

AMERICAN TRILOGY from Jan/Feb
1972 is not exactly my favourite period. Plus i have the jan/feb 1972 material on other releases anyway. UNCHAINED i was close to buying
that until i read other fans criticism of it, notably on the
glitchies on "Where no one stands alone" song. the FTD community
has every right to feel let down by the producers of that release.

Like most Elvis fans i am hoping to see an FTD release on
an upgrade of the CBS '77 exercise as i truly feel that there is more than just one and
a half classic performances that could make up a single, possible a
double audio only FTD. But there are many more fans that want it
on both mediums for one reason or another and that should be acknowledged and respected.

Time for the Estate, BMG to get the June '77 30th anniversary EIC material and the right configuration resolved....and fast!


When i write that Elvis performed "America the beautiful" almost exclusively
throughout 1976, then it follows, i can't possibly had known how many times
he exactly did the song, you say 90 times WOW! As a matter of interest
which rendition of AMERICA do you rate out of all 90 performances?

I am sure that Elvis 90 performances and earlier studio attempts of cutting a master (where we only hear like the last 15 seconds of and incidentily we
have no way of knowing whether the graceland studio take Elvis did not follow all of
the original lyrics), is an indication that he tried to come up with a qualityperformance, either live or in the studio, for a commercial project.

Doc have another listen to the show that came out as GOODBYE MEMPHIS
from some years ago where he performed a fine rendition of AMERICA. I have precise recollection of Elvis stating to the
audience that "the show was being recorded live..." which suggests
that there were initial plans to have another live collection of concert
material commercially released, not unreasonable considering the
sales of the previous ALOHA and classic M.S.G records sold high enough for the then RCA Victor label to want another shot at it!

How can we be sure that only a soundboard of this historical performance
was the only one that was taped? Considering Elvis' remarks it stands to reason that another sound console would have been there?

Doc keep up the good work O.K!!

I am NOT an Elvis purists/completist. It is not economical to be ... which as i'm sure you can appreciate takes some considerable time and effort.

Of course. Given this, may I suggest you pursue the best of Elvis Presley's music before getting into a fever about the June 1977 debacle?

When i write that Elvis performed "America the beautiful" almost exclusively throughout 1976, then it follows, i can't possibly had known how many times he exactly did the song ...

It doesn't follow. You need to make such things clear when you post a query. There are no mindreaders here ... save Colin B.

you say 90 times WOW! As a matter of interest which rendition of AMERICA do you rate out of all 90 performances?

The extant Graceland recording from February 1976 is best.

I am sure that Elvis 90 performances and earlier studio attempts of cutting a master ... is an indication that he tried to come up with a qualityperformance, either live or in the studio, for a commercial project.

Only the Graceland attempt is an example of a commercial effort, and may have been part of the failed studio/live hybrid cited above.

GOODBYE MEMPHIS ... I have precise recollection of Elvis stating to the audience that "the show was being recorded live..." which suggests that there were initial plans to have another live collection of concert material commercially released, not unreasonable considering the
sales of the previous ALOHA and classic M.S.G records sold high enough for the then RCA Victor label to want another shot at it!

No. In the summer of 1976 RCA had six live Elvis albums in the stores -- from shows taped in 1969, 1970, 1972, 1973 and 1974. Another release would not have been feasible from a business standpoint.

And Elvis said many things on stage that weren't always accurate.

How can we be sure that only a soundboard of this historical performance was the only one that was taped?

After 30 years, evidence of an official live recording plan would have come to light by now. It has not.

In fact, it would certainly have been mentioned in Ernst Jorgensen's "A Life In Music" (1998), or Peter Guralnick's "Careless Love (1999), or Joe Tunzi's "Elvis Sessions III" (2004). It was not.

Sorry, but that's the way it is.

hey doc,

thank you for your response and I appreciate your comments.

What makes you feel i do not posses the best of Elvis Presley's music?

As to your comment "Elvis made comments on stage that were not always accurate.." just out of interest how many times did he say in 1976
...or words to the affect... that the show was being recorded, just
like he did during the july 5th memphis gig?! . If you can name some
shows and their dates could be interesting indeed!

Joe Tunzi has had three cracks at the ELVIS SESSIONS concept and so this
suggests that there's still more information about the Presley recorded legacy, studio
or live, that is always coming to light. Who's to say that in due time
Tunzi won't come out with volume four?

A fever about the CBS june 77 period?!?!. I merely would prefer
for a ftd audio only release hardly what you could describe as "fever".

Finally Doc, it is our ANZAC day today (as it is for New Zealand) as
we remember and pay respect to the soldiers that died in combat
in World War 1. I will bypass any attempt at downloading "America the beautiful" as done by other artists today.

Is there anyone else other than Ray Charles who cut a version.
I don't particularly like him. Name me a woman artist. I'm keen to
hear the lyrics you say Elvis omited.

Incidentily, do other American's feel that way about the song as you do?

Just wanted to know?

bye....for now

It doesn't follow.
You need to make such things clear when you post a query.
There are no mindreaders here ... save Colin B.

I knew you were going to post that.......

Hi "Greg",

I would like to think that we're all speaking in good faith, in that we all care greatly about the Elvis Presley legacy. I know a veiled, below-the-radar attempt to settle an old score when I see it. Let it die already. Reasonable people can agree to disagree here ...

You're wrong, because it's just a simple statement of FACT.

Nothing more, other than in your own mind.

For the record, as for your quote, which I like as well, you probably didn't realize it but that was not the actual "Rockin' Rebel" based in the UK (who Steve M. received his CBS tapes from) but rather a newbie who dropped the apostrophe and boldly posts here lately.

You're also wrong here, too. I'm not confusing the two, .......... but thanks anyway.

--------------------------

Music is subjective folks, ............... get over it; some people actually do like EIC & the '77 Elvis.


N8

That's the same old nasty commentary from the would-be Aristotle of FECC, one "N880," in bold, no less. Here, we see him pretending not to recall how over-the-top he has been known to get on this forum...At least DJC has been known to keep his tongue firmly in cheek when he's in high form.

We all disagree here from time to time but to pompously throw around the word "fallacy" (his favorite word) would result in real life with a punch being thrown. We disagree here often and that's what it makes it tick. Pretending to possess "facts" here is for the most part arrogant when it pertains to discussions based on instincts, feelings, and conjecture. Little here is hard science.

We do agree that music is subjective, naturally.

I've always very much enjoyed portions of EIC, for the record. But release it officially? I could live without it that extra pixel of Elvis' sweat and make-up.

And to Lew, no, I'm not "on commission" from STAR , but I put that there to remind people that a highly-watchable version does exist, probably much improved from some of the earlier ones I've seen and many here might still own...Perfect, it's not but it's better than nothing, which is what we're getting . Once EPE took a pass on the 30th, it seems we have a longer wait in store, that, is for those who insist on waiting...


I also hardly think the STAR set is "rubbish," not compared to the many (often entertaining) audience-shot bootleg live shows in our collections.

However, I'm not certain if that Brazilian site I used those shots from actualy took them from LOVE COMING DOWN. I rather doubt it.

Certainly, it is clear a minority of hardcore fans want a release of the train wreck that was the October 1977 CBS-TV Special.

But what is unfathomable is how fervent their desire is, in lieu of all the other possible film or video that still awaits a high-quality official release:

- remaining 1956 TV shows (Dorsey-Berle-Allen)
- live footage from 1956-57
- interview footage from 1956-57-58-60
- Sinatra's 1960 Timex Special, "Welcome Home Elvis"
- candid footage 1955-1959
- Hollywood outtake footage 1960-1969
- candid footage 1960-1969
- Las Vegas 1969-1976
- more "TTWII" outtakes (1970)
- on tour 1970-1976
- "Elvis On Tour" outtakes (1972)
- candid footage 1970-1977

Let's get all of this out first, and then even I will sign up for an official release of "Elvis In Concert."

Well said.

Doc is correct that the clamor for these last tapes is probably out of all proportion compared to what remains in the vaults and in sometimes equally rough form.

To Robert, I recommend that you figure out a way to come to like Ray Charles...and any other great blues and soul artists you somehow don't get...! If nothing else, your appreciation of Elvis will benefit. It's no accident that Elvis latched onto "I Got A Woman" until the bitter end...

I like "America The Beautiful" as well but I think you may be overstating it's imporance. That year, it's neat that Elvis got in the patriotic mood (I recall the feeling of the year well as a boy) but beyond that, the song is a bit of a one-off that doesn't wear as well, no matter who's singing it.

And don't dismiss the FTD of "Unchained Melody" that quickly. It's not a totally bad release at all, despite the controversy over a bum-rap "review" it got on the Elvis...news site. For '77 fans only, for the most part. Those who dig EIC should try to get it.

Hi again, "Greg",

Congratulations.

Within the short span of two short paragraphs you have managed to commit about half a dozen fallacious errors of reasoning.

That's the same old nasty commentary from the would-be Aristotle of FECC, one "N880," in bold, no less. Here, we see him pretending not to recall how over-the-top he has been known to get on this forum...At least DJC has been known to keep his tongue firmly in cheek when he's in high form.

We all disagree here from time to time but to pompously throw around the word "fallacy" (his favorite word) would result in real life with a punch being thrown. We disagree here often and that's what it makes it tick. Pretending to possess "facts" here is for the most part arrogant when it pertains to discussions based on instincts, feelings, and conjecture. Little here is hard science.

We do agree that music is subjective, naturally.

(Well done, indeed, for that is a "natural" talent.)

Here, take a closer looksie:

That's the same old nasty commentary from the would-be Aristotle of FECC, one "N880," in bold, no less.

My "commentary" is objective, but your erroneous labelling of it as "nasty" is as fallacious as your ad hominem attempt to label me (which also speaks volumes as to your own true feelings).

As stated, originally, ........ your inability to think rationally, objectively, & clearly ............... is an inherent flaw of your character (or shortcoming of your education). (I lean towards the former, based on the evidence from your postings on this MB. See more details, below ......)

Here, we see him pretending not to recall how over-the-top he has been known to get on this forum...At least DJC has been known to keep his tongue firmly in cheek when he's in high form.

Fish bait, ...... of the red-herring variety.

Again, ............ quite a testament as to your natural fallacious tendencies (ie: done w/ little or no effort).

We all disagree here from time to time but to pompously throw around the word "fallacy" (his favorite word) would result in real life with a punch being thrown. We disagree here often and that's what it makes it tick.

The concept of "fallaciousness" & its use has nothing whatsoever to do w/ "pomposity" ................. except, perhaps, for those that have no understanding of what it is about (which is obvious in your case).

Throwing punches ?? Hmmm, ....... seems like you are fallaciously blaming others for your own willfull ignorance regarding critical thinking (or lack of ability to engange in it, again, in your case). Hence, the ever predictable testosterone induced displays secondary to emotionalism.

Pretending to possess "facts" here is for the most part arrogant when it pertains to discussions based on instincts, feelings, and conjecture. Little here is hard science.

The evidence as to your perennial fallacious tendencies is an objective FACT on display here on this MB for all to see w/ almost every post you make (for those able to see it).

"Science" is way of thinking, but I'm not surprised that you are unable to comprehend the entire concept(s).

We do agree that music is subjective, naturally.

Good, then everyone should stop telling others what they should / should not "enjoy."

I think these kinds of discussions (regarding subjective opinions about music) are silly and an object exercise in "Wasting Time - 101".)



N8

I also object to Greg calling N8 the "Aristotle" of the MB (now .... Newton, Einstein or Sagan, I could possibly handle). N8 clearly knows that an applied force doesn't maintain a body's velocity, but casues a change in a body's acceleration. Tsk.

I've always very much enjoyed portions of EIC, for the record. But release it officially? I could live without it that extra pixel of Elvis' sweat and make-up.

This is as fallacious as all the stuff that N8 just highlighted. I could easily flip this reductionist comment around and get you to apply it to the Comeback Special or the Ed Sullvian shows -- but wait, we actually HAVE those in good quality as official releases, don't we? And just because you could live without EIC being given the care and respect it deserves, it doesn't mean other people can or should have to. EIC is a critical piece of the tapestry. It is owed its due.

"N880" (your real name, too, presumably?)

You remain the snide sort you have continually shown yourself to be when you want to pick a fight. I don't truck in the world of insulting people's education nor showing how "smart" I am.

To my knowledge, you were told to cool it awhile ago after a similiar display of personal attacks, and either were booted or you left in a huff for this same old native nastiness you possess. That's what I refer to, for the uninitiated.

I contend that you indeed are pompous for trotting out your rhetoric and argumentation lessons on an Elvis messageboard.

Testosterone? I continually wave the flag of peace here (for those who might remember, be it DJC or Genesim in past feuds) and merely ask you to take it down a notch with your over-the-top "I'm right and you're wrong" stand.

I'm not even sure we disagree all that much, but you have apparently, one assumes, taken offense that I posted shot of Elvis looking subpar in '77. You have to come to grips with that sad aspect of his decline and stop attacking anyone who points it out.

We could show off our respective reasoning skills until the cows come home, but until then,

Sayonara!

Cryo the Student of N880 speaks:

This is as fallacious as all the stuff that N8 just highlighted. I could easily flip this reductionist comment around and get you to apply it to the Comeback Special or the Ed Sullvian shows -- but wait, we actually HAVE those in good quality as official releases, don't we? And just because you could live without EIC being given the care and respect it deserves, it doesn't mean other people can or should have to. EIC is a critical piece of the tapestry. It is owed its due.

Oh, please, gents, leave it on campus. This is all big ball of contradictions, this thread. Don't expect rationality to rule: it never will. If it did, Elvis would have not been on stage in June of '77.

As for your crusade, hey, I'd buy the EIC set if sold officially. But would I feel good about the enterprise, as DJC and others continually point out the downside of this debacle? No. I am admittedly torn on the issue but the devotees of this set give me the creeps. Guys, he was very sick up there, dying sick. It's not all heroism but self-destruction captured on tape. Take the worst comments on YOUTUBE and some of 'em hit way too close to home, as much as we want to defend him...

Have at it, Cryo, but you can expect even more YOUTUBE posts (such as you referred to without comment) citing Elvis' "stammering" in the title of the video...I for one don't look forward to more of that.

Burn the tapes, EPE!

Last edited by Gregory Nolan Jr. on Wed Apr 25, 2007 9:01 am, edited 2 times in total.

"N880" (your real name, too, presumably?)

You remain the snide sort you have continually shown yourself to be when you want to pick a fight. I don't truck in the world of insulting people's education nor showing how "smart" I am.

To my knowledge, you were told to cool it awhile ago after a similiar display of personal attacks, and either were booted or you left in a huff for this same old native nastiness you possess. That's what I refer to, for the uninitiated.

I contend that you indeed are pompous for trotting out your rhetoric lessons on an Elvis messageboard.

Testosterone? I continually wave the flag of peace here (for those who might remember, be it DJC or Genesim in past feuds) and merely ask you to take it down a notch with your over-the-top "I'm right and you're wrong" stand. I'm not even sure we disagree all that much, but you have taken offense that I posted shot of Elvis looking subpar in '77. You have to come to grips with that sad aspect of his decline and stop attacking anyone who points it out.

We could show off our respective reasoning skills until the cows come home, but until then,

Sayonara! :wink:

I stand in awe of your fallacious skills with every post you make, "Greg."

Truly, ....... an incredible display to watch.

N8

PS - Unko-tare back to you, too. (wink!)

Don't expect rationality to rule: it never will.

Spoken like a true zealot.

That's one thing I verge with agreeing with you on: rationality might not ever rule. And that's all down to the stupidity of humanity.

No, zealot here, Cryo, and you know it.

And apparently the puzzle of EIC is solved by you two.

You're both getting a little too rich for the messageboard, is all.

" N880EP " wrote:

I stand in awe of your fallacious skills with every post you make, "Greg."

Truly, ....... an incredible display to watch.

N8

PS - Unko-tare back to you, too. (wink!)

And he keeps at it! But at your service, Sir !You win, " N880 ", you really do.

Or how about, "you're right, N8, and your Cryo counterpart, I've been fallacious. You caught me."

I'll see you tomorrow, my friends.

Last edited by Gregory Nolan Jr. on Wed Apr 25, 2007 9:07 am, edited 5 times in total.