how's the sound on new american trilogy FTD?

[GERRY]

I own the cd's i can throw one in the cd player and hear blatant mixing mastering errors such as Glen on the right, james Burton on the left,Scheff on the right, i can hear Elvis vocal is spread out all over the sonic image and that there is very limited separation , i can hear that the bass guitar and the bass drum have been thinned out and panned to overlap Elvis vocal,i can hear the imperials in the left channel, i can hear that organ coming in that drowns out everything , i can hear Tutts/Fontana's/Lanning's kit has been left less potent than my childs toy drum kit, i can detect the attempt to try and remove every molecule of hiss from the recording at the expense of everything else , i can hear Ferrantes penchant for Spector like wall of sound that Lennon didnt want , i can hear hi fidelity multitrack recordings that have left with the appeal of a mono zero dimensional recording.

Did i mention the cymbols? Yeah on "Brightest Star on Sunset Boulevard" the cymbols resonate and fizz with lovely extension.

On TTWII se the same symbols sound like they are muffled and they sound flat and the recordings have been left to sound like a sheet of cardboard is placed in front of the monitors.

Brightest Star on Sunset Boulevard is only an import it should be no comparison to the official release.

Now check out all the other "mix anomolies"between the above.

changing the mixes and altering history Since the early 1990's

unashamedly taking credit for the skilled work of the pros Since the early 1990's

SAVE the music this man has to go

Writing books doth not better records make

[Matthew]

I own the cd's

Still waiting GERRY, still waiting for your answer.

[GERRY]

One example above.



changing the mixes and altering history Since the early 1990's

unashamedly taking credit for the skilled work of the pros Since the early 1990's

SAVE the music this man has to go

Writing books does nothing to get better records made

[drjohncarpenter]

...i could go on and on.

Could?

[Matthew]

One example above.

The Brightest Star On Sunset Boulevard has multitrack material from Vegas '69?!! Wow. You must have a special edition because mine doesn't - on either volume.

Still awaiting your answer to my question.

[GERRY]

So just ignore BSOSB clearly it demonstrates this sonic/mix anomaly?



changing the mixes and altering history Since the early 1990's

unashamedly taking credit for the skilled work of the pros Since the early 1990's

SAVE the music this man has to go

Writing books doth not better records make

[Matthew]

So just ignore BSOSB clearly it demonstrates this sonic/mix anomaly.

Not when the material in question is the Vegas '69 multitrack.

multitrack material from Vegas '69?

One of my favourates:-

Punchy/good separation all round cracking sound and faithfull to the original vinyl release back in 1969.

In Person ND 83892 (vinyl 1969/cd release circa 1991)

i have it also Japan papersleeve but i find that this has a detectable rumbling background noise that reminds me of what we used to term "turntable rumble" see the Japanese didnt have the luxury of the mastertapes when they remastered these.

Anyway you will find that the above releases both same as original vinyl release no sonic/mix anomalies here.

1) Elvis In Person doesn't feature any material recorded on the night featured on Live In Las Vegas. Indeed, of the 9 or so shows recorded to multitrack during this season the material on Elvis In Person comes from only 4 shows - all those took place AFTER the show featured on Live In Las Vegas. Indeed, 2 of the 3 complete shows released by BMG/FTD so far took place before any of the recordings used for Elvis In Person. It is perfectly reasonable to deduce that one reason no material was used on In Person from the August 24th, 1969 Dinner Show is the recording itself.

2) When replying to Doc's post regarding the August 1969 mix anomalies you wrote: "Guess you dont own any boots then? Because the majority of the boots i own do not have these as you put it "mix anomalies" even the few that have incomplete recordings without the later overdubbs still retain a strong base of sonic consistancy."

You STILL have yet to substantiate this by answering my question. So I say again: still waiting for your answer GERRY.

[drjohncarpenter]

multitrack material from Vegas '69?

One of my favourates:-

In Person ND 83892 ...

Um ... that is an official release.

Why don't you be a man and admit that Matthew caught you out?

And after that, perhaps you can show everyone a little respect by posting with a bit more honesty in your future arguments.

[Daryl]

Hello,

Ernst never did "In Person". That was a Don Wardell CD.

While we're on the subject of '69 shows and the "Live In Las Vegas" boxset, why is there a sudden dropout in sound on "Johnny B. Goode" from the '69 show? This is something that easily could have been fixed.

Daryl

[Matthew]

This is something that easily could have been fixed.

How?

[GERRY]

Hi Daryl,

Yeah it was back in 1991 one of my favourates.

I have given Matthew two examples of great sound that has not been mixed/mastered by the likes of Ferrante.

This was my point , BSOSB is an import IP is official


Ernst had nothing to do with either and they both sound great.





changing the mixes and altering history Since the early 1990's

unashamedly taking credit for the skilled work of the pros Since the early 1990's

SAVE the music this man has to go

Writing books doth not better records make

[Matthew]

I have given Matthew two examples of great sound that has not been mixed/mastered by the likes of Ferrante.

The above was not asked of you and is irrelavant to my question. Still waiting for you to answer my actual question GERRY.

[bajo]

If I'm not completely mistaken, the 1991 CD edition of In Person was a straight copy of the album master of '69?
And that original LP album was mixed, overdubbed and mastered by who??
I agree that In Person still stands as one of the best live compilations released with Elvis.

[GERRY]

Larry Muhoberac's keyboard work was mixed out of the show

Docs comments were that Felton may not have recorded Larry Muhoberac's Organ because he was limited to 8 channel mutitrack


My comments were that i have only come across such blatant mix anomolies in the mixing/mastering of the likes of Ferrante/Reidel.

So you want proof the Organ was not found in the mix because Felton didnt record it ?

Whole mixes are being changed and you are worried about an Organ?

But if you want i will listen to all my 1969 imports- i have a ton of 1969 shows from my dear friend Rick Rennie R.I.P but they are audience recordings.

Bet the Doc didn't know that Rick actually appeared in TTWII


But i am lucky enough to own every 1969 import so i will look intoi this for you ok ?



changing the mixes and altering history Since the early 1990's

unashamedly taking credit for the skilled work of the pros Since the early 1990's

SAVE the music this man has to go

Writing books doth not better records make

[Matthew]

My comments were that i have only come across such blatant mix anomolies in the mixing/mastering of the likes of Ferrante/Reidel.

These were not your comments. I have pasted your exact comments twice now in addition to originally quoting it.

So you want proof the Organ was not found in the mix because Felton didnt record it ?

I want you to prove you own the bootlegs featuring Vegas '69 multitrack material you say you are in possession of.

But if you want i will listen to all my 1969 imports- i have a ton of 1969 shows from my dear friend Rick Rennie R.I.P but they are mostly audience recordings.

Bootlegs featuring audience recordings are of no interest, these fabled bootlegs featuring multitrack Vegas ’69 material you claim to own are.

But i am lucky enough to own every 1969 import so i will look intoi this for you ok ?

You seem to be very lucky to own releases that don’t exist. But as you have already made your statement you have no need to look into anything because you would already know. And thus, GERRY, I’m still waiting for you to answer the question. This won’t and can’t happen though can it, as well you know.

[GERRY]

Elvis In Person doesn't feature any material recorded on the night featured on Live In Las Vegas. Indeed, of the 9 or so shows recorded to multitrack during this season the material on Elvis In Person comes from only 4 shows - all those took place AFTER the show featured on Live In Las Vegas. Indeed, 2 of the 3 complete shows released by BMG/FTD so far took place before any of the recordings used for Elvis In Person. It is perfectly reasonable to deduce that one reason no material was used on In Person from the August 24th, 1969 Dinner Show is the recording itself

Live show found on Live In Las Vegas dated August 8th 1969


I have two imports that pre-date Anything recorded on the above date namely August 8, 1969 as featured on LIVE IN LAS VEGAS.

And guess what Larry Muhoberac's Organ and Piano can be heard in the mix!:lol:



changing the mixes and altering history Since the early 1990's

unashamedly taking credit for the skilled work of the pros Since the early 1990's

SAVE the music this man has to go

Writing books doth not better records make

[drjohncarpenter]

But if you want i will listen to all my 1969 imports- i have a ton of 1969 shows from my dear friend Rick Rennie R.I.P but they are mostly audience recordings.

Your act is getting very old, and your dishonesty is telling.

The late Rick Rennie never had any August 1969 recordings to offer, his tapes spanned 1970 to 1973:

From: Rick Rennie (RRENNIE@webtv.net)
Subject: Re: Where is Rick Rennie?  
Newsgroups: alt.elvis.king
Date: 2001-09-20 18:45:40 PST

I went to 20 concerts of Elvis from 1969 to 1976, from Vegas, Tahoe, Portland and Seattle. I didn't record all of them, but I have acquired all but my very first shows on August 2, 1969, which I can't find anywhere. I used a very rare for then portible stereo cassette recorder.
Rick

-----

From: Rick Rennie (RRENNIE@webtv.net)
Subject: Thank You To Rick Rennie  
Newsgroups: alt.elvis.king
Date: 2001-11-27 14:15:19 PST

I have poor tapes of the shows I saw, but didn't record from others, except for the August 2, 1969 shows, which I'm still trying to find. It was my first shows and they confiscated my recorder that night. I was more careful at future shows.

Time to say goodnight, "GERRY."

[GERRY]

OMG you are unbelievable Rick Rennie was my email friend we traded many times , i got a ton of stuff from him , not just 69 shows either.

I have some 1969 shows in front of me right now that Rick Rennie sent me!

I have been a fan of the King since i was a baby i have a HUGE collection.

Bet my Beatles/Lennon collection would make you jealous too.

I have some unreleased showsof the Boss too.


changing the mixes and altering history Since the early 1990's

unashamedly taking credit for the skilled work of the pros Since the early 1990's

SAVE the music this man has to go

Writing books doth not better records make

[drjohncarpenter]

OMG you are unbelievable Rick Rennie was my email friend we traded many times , i got a ton of stuff from him , not just 69 shows either.

I have some 1969 shows in front of me right now that Rick Rennie sent me!

Yeah, and that's why he told the AEK newsgroup back in 2001 all about every other show he attended and / or taped -- but not those from August 1969. Cut the crap.

[Matthew]

[I have two imports that pre-date Anything recorded on the above date namely August 8, 1969 as featured on LIVE IN LAS VEGAS.

And guess what Larry Muhoberac's Organ and Piano can be heard in the mix!:lol:

No multitrack recordings where made prior to the August 21st, Midnight show. You being able to hear Larry Muhoberac's organ and piano on bootlegs taken from sources that aren't multitrack is irrelavant. You can't compare recordings from the audience or soundboard to 8-track live recordings.

What an audience member necessarily heard through the house PA is not representative of what made it onto one of those 8 tracks.

[midnightx]

Well don't be so quick to let Ferrante off of the hook. Look at his handy work on disc one of the Live In Las Vegas box set where Larry Muhoberac's keyboard work was mixed out of the show.

My understanding of August 1969 mix anomalies is that the choices of instruments in the sound picture were made on the spot by Felton Jarvis, and these decisions changed from show to show. An engineer can only make do with what is on the existing tapes.

So, perhaps our dedicated fan base can take a step back to consider such facts before jumping all over the work being done in the past few years.

DJC, Larry's keyboard work is clearly in the mix during Heartbreak Hotel found on the Collector's Gold compilation. It is a bit of stretch to suggest that Jarvis would have mixed out the keyboards from the mix of one of the 1969 shows considering it was a major component of Elvis' live sound at that point.

Your unwavering support of Ernst and his staff is admirable (and he deserves many praises), but he certainly does not have a spotless resume. That isn't an attack on him. No matter how one spins it, the revisionist mix by Ferrante and editing of the monologue on disc one of the Live In Las Vegas package was one of Ernst's biggest blunders as a producer.

[GERRY]

Somwhere we got our wires crossed as i never once claimed that i had any 1969 multitrack imports i was talking about my imports and their steady mix consistancy in relation to their masters.

All the time i have been posting on this mb i have been talking about the mixing and the mastering , removal of instruments,cowboys playing Dr Frankenstein with Elvis work, not once have i mentioned the Live In Las Vegas Box Set or even Larry Muhoberac from that show.

When i joined the topic thread "how's the sound on new american trilogy FTD"? i quickly got into gear and started to do as i allways do - point out the mixing/mastering inconsistancies.

Somehow my comments got missinterpreted ,i replied to the doc without realising that he was only talking about Larry Mohaberic and in one specific show namely the 8th Aug 1969.

Anyway Without further ado here is the PROOF

Aug 8th 1969 and Larry Mohaberic as on Collectors Gold And disc 3 EAP Boxset Larry Mohaberic is playing piano on these tracks

http://d01.megashares.com/?d01=2bff26e

D/L it's only 300kb.


And finally here is PROOF that Larry is Missing from the same recording on different release namely Live In Las Vegas Boxset:-

http://d01.megashares.com/?d01=cfba197

D/L it's only 347kb.


Now Matthew there is your proof that my persistant claims regarding Ernst are true,but i allready knew this to be true.




changing the mixes and altering history Since the early 1990's

unashamedly taking credit for the skilled work of the pros Since the early 1990's

SAVE the music this man has to go

Writing books doth not better records make

[thenexte]

Well don't be so quick to let Ferrante off of the hook. Look at his handy work on disc one of the Live In Las Vegas box set where Larry Muhoberac's keyboard work was mixed out of the show.

My understanding of August 1969 mix anomalies is that the choices of instruments in the sound picture were made on the spot by Felton Jarvis, and these decisions changed from show to show. An engineer can only make do with what is on the existing tapes.

So, perhaps our dedicated fan base can take a step back to consider such facts before jumping all over the work being done in the past few years.

DJC, Larry's keyboard work is clearly in the mix during Heartbreak Hotel found on the Collector's Gold compilation. It is a bit of stretch to suggest that Jarvis would have mixed out the keyboards from the mix of one of the 1969 shows considering it was a major component of Elvis' live sound at that point.

Your unwavering support of Ernst and his staff is admirable (and he deserves many praises), but he certainly does not have a spotless resume. That isn't an attack on him. No matter how one spins it, the revisionist mix by Ferrante and editing of the monologue on disc one of the Live In Las Vegas package was one of Ernst's biggest blunders as a producer.

Now that's what I would call a stretch in the big scheme of things. Who knows if Ernst was even present during the mixdown session? Who knows if the tape had deteriorated during being pulled out in 1991 for CG and again in 2001 for LVLV? So many factors that your arguments do not take into consideration. Oftentimes it is a multitude of factors that make up such decisions. I doubt the piano was mixed out deliberately...

[drjohncarpenter]

It is a bit of stretch to suggest that Jarvis would have mixed out the keyboards from the mix of one of the 1969 shows considering it was a major component of Elvis' live sound at that point.

My understanding is that Felton Jarvis did not maintain a uniform mix pattern for the 12 shows recorded by RCA between August 21 and August 26, 1969. It has nothing to do with your perspective -- or mine -- regarding Ernst and Roger's work for FTD or BMG, it is a matter of fact. Thus, my recommendation that fans take this into consideration when revisiting these shows, and their release on various official discs.

[midnightx]

Well don't be so quick to let Ferrante off of the hook. Look at his handy work on disc one of the Live In Las Vegas box set where Larry Muhoberac's keyboard work was mixed out of the show.

My understanding of August 1969 mix anomalies is that the choices of instruments in the sound picture were made on the spot by Felton Jarvis, and these decisions changed from show to show. An engineer can only make do with what is on the existing tapes.

So, perhaps our dedicated fan base can take a step back to consider such facts before jumping all over the work being done in the past few years.

DJC, Larry's keyboard work is clearly in the mix during Heartbreak Hotel found on the Collector's Gold compilation. It is a bit of stretch to suggest that Jarvis would have mixed out the keyboards from the mix of one of the 1969 shows considering it was a major component of Elvis' live sound at that point.

Your unwavering support of Ernst and his staff is admirable (and he deserves many praises), but he certainly does not have a spotless resume. That isn't an attack on him. No matter how one spins it, the revisionist mix by Ferrante and editing of the monologue on disc one of the Live In Las Vegas package was one of Ernst's biggest blunders as a producer.

Now that's what I would call a stretch in the big scheme of things. Who knows if Ernst was even present during the mixdown session? Who knows if the tape had deteriorated during being pulled out in 1991 for CG and again in 2001 for LVLV? So many factors that your arguments do not take into consideration. Oftentimes it is a multitude of factors that make up such decisions. I doubt the piano was mixed out deliberately...

Really? If that particular show had a damaged tape one would think another show from the August 69 run would have been chosen such as the 2 subsequently released on FTD. Isn't that a factor that should be considered? The "missing" keyboard from the mix was a big deal at the time of release. Why do you doubt it was mixed out deliberately? Ernst was obviously aware of the editing of the "monologue" as he defended the decision. Why give Ernst a free pass, he is the producer isn't he? And to be clear, I am not one of these Ernst bashers that frequent this message board. I am a big supporter of FTD (I have purchased every release) and appreciate the work Ernst has done in terms of releases and research. The Elvis world is fortunate that he took the reigns of the Elvis Presley catalogue. But it also doesn't mean one has to blindly support every release his team has issued. Disc one of Live In Las Vegas was a disaster and there are certainly reasonable concerns over the mix and mastering of the latest FTD An American Trilogy.