All posts with more than 3000 Hits, prior to 2008

Sun Apr 01, 2007 5:04 pm

Hello,

Joe, I never said that Elvis said that. I only quoted what Marty Lacker claimed Elvis to have said, which I have serious doubts about. Why do some people on this messageboard act like the music industry is some sort of charity organization. If Elvis supposedly knew for sure he had a hit record in the can, he surely wouldn't have sat on it, especially if his publishing companies didn't own the rights to it. That would have been the equivalent of Sam Phillips sitting on "That's All Right" or RCA sitting on "In The Ghetto" and "Suspicious Minds." That's how you get scooped. You can call it slimy and low-class, Joe, but that's how the industry has worked for decades. You snooze, you lose. Why do you accuse me of defending Johnny Rivers? Where exactly has Johhny even defended himself? He really hasn't come out in public and defended himself because he has better things to do besides arguing with a waste like Marty Lacker. I do wish he would though to set people like Lacker and Guralnick straight.

ColinB, don't you think Elvis would have known if he had a hit record on his hands with "Memphis". Wouldn't RCA know as well. Why do you underestimate Elvis' input into his singles and RCA's as well. According to you, it would seem that Elvis and RCA just had dumb luck with "Heartbreak Hotel", "Hound Dog", "Don't Be Cruel" "Love Me Tender", "Are You Lonesome Tonight?" "It's Now Or Never", "In The Ghetto" "Suspicious Minds", and "Burning Love" to name a few.

Daryl

Sun Apr 01, 2007 5:10 pm

Daryl wrote:Hello,

Joe, I never said that Elvis said that. I only quoted what Marty Lacker claimed Elvis to have said, which I have serious doubts about. Why do some people on this messageboard act like the music industry is some sort of charity organization. If Elvis supposedly knew for sure he had a hit record in the can, he surely wouldn't have sat on it, especially if his publishing companies didn't own the rights to it. That would have been the equivalent of Sam Phillips sitting on "That's All Right" or RCA sitting on "In The Ghetto" and "Suspicious Minds." That's how you get scooped. You can call it slimy and low-class, Joe, but that's how the industry has worked for decades. You snooze, you lose. Why do you accuse me of defending Johnny Rivers? Where exactly has Johhny even defended himself? He really hasn't come out in public and defended himself because he has better things to do besides arguing with a waste like Marty Lacker. I do wish he would though to set people like Lacker and Guralnick straight.

ColinB, don't you think Elvis would have known if he had a hit record on his hands with "Memphis". Wouldn't RCA know as well. Why do you underestimate Elvis' input into his singles and RCA's as well. According to you, it would seem that Elvis and RCA just had dumb luck with "Heartbreak Hotel", "Hound Dog", "Don't Be Cruel" "Love Me Tender", "Are You Lonesome Tonight?" "It's Now Or Never", "In The Ghetto" "Suspicious Minds", and "Burning Love" to name a few.

Daryl


Daryl...why are you so dead set on changing history?

It happened just as most experinced contributors to this board have related.

Marty Lacker wasn't lying.

Get over it...it's a done deal.

Sun Apr 01, 2007 5:36 pm

Hello,

What makes you so sure that Marty Lacker wasn't lying? What, just because he was quoted in a book doesn't make it the truth. Just because Guralnick used those quotes in his own biography, that still doesn't make it the truth. The truth is that Marty Lacker has some sort of personal agenda against Johnny Rivers, which no doubt has something to do with his dislike of Larry Geller. Any fool that read "EAP:RFTMM" could see that.

Why don't you check this link out and click on the red guitar beside "At The Whiskey A-Go-Go" and listen to what somebody other than Lacker or Guralnick has to say.

http://www.johnnyrivers.com/jr/discography64-69.html

To quote from Johnny River's own website:

Rivers also met two men at Gazzari's who would play major roles in his career: Lou Adler, who became his producer, and Elmer Valentine, who was opening an L.A. version of the Paris Whisky A Go-Go club on the Sunset Strip. Valentine offered Rivers a year's contract to appear at the new club. On January 15, 1964, he opened. Three days later 'The Beatles' "I Want To Hold Your Hand" entered the charts.


http://www.johnnyrivers.com/jr/biography.html

That's funny, that's just 3 days after Elvis recorded "Memphis" a second time in Nashville. I would bet that "Memphis" was in Johnny Rivers repertoire even back when he was performing at Gazzari's. Probably from hearing Lonnie Mack's instrumental.

In Guralnick and Jorgensen's "Day By Day" on page 193 it says "The Colonel informs RCA that Elvis wants to delay the release of "Memphis" once again, this time, apparently because he feels the timing is not right. Instead, the newly recorded "It Hurts Me" becomes the B-side of "Kissin' Cousins." It sounds to me as though Elvis was planning on relegating "Memphis" to the B-side. Why, if he felt it was a strong candidate for a hit record.

Why did Elvis want to delay "Memphis"? He had already cut it two times, without success. Johnny Rivers wasn't going to wait until Elvis' version had come out. Hell, he didn't even know when or if Elvis' version was going to come out. if he knew he had a hit, he wasn't going to sit on it like Elvis supposedly did.

Sun Apr 01, 2007 6:12 pm

Back in those days the industry was driven by hit singles. When an artist had a potential hit the record company would try to get it out on single as soon as possible. Singles were released every 3 or 4 months. In May of '63 Elvis had a major non-soundtrack session designed to produce an lp and at least 1 single. Devil In Disguise/Please Don't Drag That String Around were pegged as the single, and were released in June. DID hit #3 stateside and #1 in the U.K. The next single was scheduled for October, and was originally to be Bossa Nova Baby (gotta plug the movie) from the Fun In Acupulco soundtrack paired with Memphis from the '63 session. Apparently Elvis was disatisfied with his May '63 cut of Memphis, so Witchcraft got the nod instead. In January '64 Elvis re-cut Memphis and Ask Me, and recorded a new song, It Hurts Me. In a perfect world RCA would've released It Hurts Me/Memphis as Elvis' next single in February '64. What they did release was the inferior Kissin Cousins (gotta plug the movie) with the vastly superior It Hurts Me as the B side. And somehow KC hit #12! Ok, I can understand the desire to plug the movie with a single, but I have to wonder why?: a.) Elvis didn't insist on Memphis getting out on the KC single, and/or: b.) If he felt that priority should be given to It Hurts Me Over Memphis (and his playing of the Jan. '64 cut of Memphis to Rivers' would seem to indicate otherwise) why he didn't insist on It Hurts Me as the A side of the KC single?

Regarding Rivers, around the time of the release of Careless Love there was a blurb in Goldmine where Rivers took issue with Guralnick's depiction of the Memphis controversy. There was also a brief rebuttle by Marty Lacker.

My own view folks is that while Elvis would've very possibly scored at least a respectable (top 15) hit with Memphis (if KC could hit #12 Memphis should've done been able to do as well), Rivers' version is the better record. And regardless of where one comes down on the Rivers controversy it's 43 years in the past. That's just too long to hold a grudge against Rivers, let it go!

Sun Apr 01, 2007 6:44 pm

Pete Dube wrote:Back in those days the industry was driven by hit singles. When an artist had a potential hit the record company would try to get it out on single as soon as possible. Singles were released every 3 or 4 months. In May of '63 Elvis had a major non-soundtrack session designed to produce an lp and at least 1 single. Devil In Disguise/Please Don't Drag That String Around were pegged as the single, and were released in June. DID hit #3 stateside and #1 in the U.K. The next single was scheduled for October, and was originally to be Bossa Nova Baby (gotta plug the movie) from the Fun In Acupulco soundtrack paired with Memphis from the '63 session. Apparently Elvis was disatisfied with his May '63 cut of Memphis, so Witchcraft got the nod instead. In January '64 Elvis re-cut Memphis and Ask Me, and recorded a new song, It Hurts Me. In a perfect world RCA would've released It Hurts Me/Memphis as Elvis' next single in February '64. What they did release was the inferior Kissin Cousins (gotta plug the movie) with the vastly superior It Hurts Me as the B side. And somehow KC hit #12! Ok, I can understand the desire to plug the movie with a single, but I have to wonder why?: a.) Elvis didn't insist on Memphis getting out on the KC single, and/or: b.) If he felt that priority should be given to It Hurts Me Over Memphis (and his playing of the Jan. '64 cut of Memphis to Rivers' would seem to indicate otherwise) why he didn't insist on It Hurts Me as the A side of the KC single?

Regarding Rivers, around the time of the release of Careless Love there was a blurb in Goldmine where Rivers took issue with Guralnick's depiction of the Memphis controversy. There was also a brief rebuttle by Marty Lacker.

My own view folks is that while Elvis would've very possibly scored at least a respectable (top 15) hit with Memphis (if KC could hit #12 Memphis should've done been able to do as well), Rivers' version is the better record. And regardless of where one comes down on the Rivers controversy it's 43 years in the past. That's just too long to hold a grudge against Rivers, let it go!


I'm not holding a grudge against Rivers, personally I could care less about the guy. That doesn't mean what he did was right, because it wasn't.

Sun Apr 01, 2007 6:54 pm

Daryl wrote:Hello,

What makes you so sure that Marty Lacker wasn't lying? What, just because he was quoted in a book doesn't make it the truth. Just because Guralnick used those quotes in his own biography, that still doesn't make it the truth. The truth is that Marty Lacker has some sort of personal agenda against Johnny Rivers, which no doubt has something to do with his dislike of Larry Geller. Any fool that read "EAP:RFTMM" could see that.

Why don't you check this link out and click on the red guitar beside "At The Whiskey A-Go-Go" and listen to what somebody other than Lacker or Guralnick has to say.

http://www.johnnyrivers.com/jr/discography64-69.html

To quote from Johnny River's own website:

Rivers also met two men at Gazzari's who would play major roles in his career: Lou Adler, who became his producer, and Elmer Valentine, who was opening an L.A. version of the Paris Whisky A Go-Go club on the Sunset Strip. Valentine offered Rivers a year's contract to appear at the new club. On January 15, 1964, he opened. Three days later 'The Beatles' "I Want To Hold Your Hand" entered the charts.


http://www.johnnyrivers.com/jr/biography.html

That's funny, that's just 3 days after Elvis recorded "Memphis" a second time in Nashville. I would bet that "Memphis" was in Johnny Rivers repertoire even back when he was performing at Gazzari's. Probably from hearing Lonnie Mack's instrumental.

In Guralnick and Jorgensen's "Day By Day" on page 193 it says "The Colonel informs RCA that Elvis wants to delay the release of "Memphis" once again, this time, apparently because he feels the timing is not right. Instead, the newly recorded "It Hurts Me" becomes the B-side of "Kissin' Cousins." It sounds to me as though Elvis was planning on relegating "Memphis" to the B-side. Why, if he felt it was a strong candidate for a hit record.

Why did Elvis want to delay "Memphis"? He had already cut it two times, without success. Johnny Rivers wasn't going to wait until Elvis' version had come out. Hell, he didn't even know when or if Elvis' version was going to come out. if he knew he had a hit, he wasn't going to sit on it like Elvis supposedly did.


Let me see, lets say I'm sitting with Elvis Presley staring at all of his gold records and I'm basically looking for a break in the music business, looking to get a hit, and he plays this song for me over and over, raving about it, chances are I have to believe it's going to be a smash. Rivers did what he believed to best for his own career, but make no mistake, he stuck it to Elvis real good, that's why Elvis wanted no part of him.

Sun Apr 01, 2007 7:17 pm

Joe Car wrote:

Let me see, lets say I'm sitting with Elvis Presley staring at all of his gold records and I'm basically looking for a break in the music business, looking to get a hit, and he plays this song for me over and over, raving about it, chances are I have to believe it's going to be a smash. Rivers did what he believed to best for his own career, but make no mistake, he stuck it to Elvis real good, that's why Elvis wanted no part of him.



Exactly. I struggle to see why people just can't accept this.

Sun Apr 08, 2007 9:18 am

Hello,

KiwiAlan, again if Elvis was raving to Johnny Rivers about his '63 version of "Memphis", why didn't he insist on it being released as a single. Listen to the audio clip from the website link I provided earlier and listen to what Johnny Rivers says. He says that they both jammed on "Memphis" about a year before he opened at the Whisky-A-Go-Go which means that Elvis obviously played the '63 version for him. Johnny Rivers wasn't going to simply wait forever until Elvis put his version out, because he didn't know when or even if Elvis was going to put it out, considering it had been close to a year from the time Elvis recorded it in May '63 to the time Johnny's version dented the charts. Johnny it would seem was at least courteous to wait nearly a full year from the time he heard Elvis' version until he put his out. It's absurd to even expect Johnny Rivers to wait that long.

And who's to say that maybe while jamming on it during the summer of '63 that Elvis heard something in the way Johnny Rivers played and sang "Memphis" that would have inspired him to go back into the studio in January '64 to re-record it. Well, then I guess you could really accuse Elvis of stealing from Johnny Rivers. Isn't it just possible that after playing Johnny his version of "Memphis" from '63, the began jamming on the song and this jamming could have made Elvis re-examine the possibility of putting "Memphis" out as a single. If that were the case, in my opinion "Memphis" was up for grabs. Let's not forget that Lonnie Mack's instrumental version was on the charts during the summer of '63 as well. I'm not going to say that's exactly how it went down, but it could be a likely scenario. When you start to think about it all, it makes perfect sense. In May '63 Elvis recorded "Memphis" and "Ask Me." In January '64 he re-recorded both "Memphis" and "Ask Me" and obviously "Ask Me" was the better of the two re-recordings. Again, it's that simple. In my opinion, Elvis' versions of "Memphis" are sung too closely to Chuck Berry's original and the musicians play it similiarly to Berry's (because that was the version that they were familiar with) as opposed to Johnny Rivers' version. If anything, it would seem to me that Elvis stole his arrangement straight from Berry's. Elvis sings "Memphis" in an almost laidback narrative tone like Berry's (Maybe this is what someone meant by when they referred to Elvis' version as Perry Comoesque), whereas Johnny Rivers' version has that Jimmy Reed/Tommy Tucker type sound. It's night and day between Elvis' version and Johnny's.

Daryl

Sun Apr 08, 2007 9:39 am

Elvis did not meet Rivers until 1964, and the acetate he was so excited about was the January 1964 re-recording, a great improvement over the previous version, which is why the 1963 master did not see official release until 1990.

You can close the book on this one now, Daryl.

Sun Apr 08, 2007 10:42 am

Hello Doc,

Even if it was '64, it's still moot. Even still, Johnny's own words put it at '63, not '64. It's Marty Lacker's story that puts it at '64, to clarify.

Timeline refresher

May 27, '63 - Elvis records "Ask Me", "Memphis" and "Devil In Disguise"

June '63 - Elvis releases "Devil In Disguise"/"Please Don't Drag That String Around"

Summer '63 - Lonnie Mack scores #5 instrumental hit with "Memphis" (10 weeks spent in top 40 beginning in late June)

October '63 - Elvis releases "Bossa Nova Baby"/"Witchcraft"

Late '63 - Johnny Rivers begins playing Gazzari's

January 12, 1964 - Elvis records "It Hurts Me" as well as re-records "Memphis" and "Ask Me"

January 15, 1964 - Johnny Rivers opens at the Whiskey-A-Go-Go

February '64 - Elvis releases "Kissin' Cousins"/"It Hurts Me"

April '64 - Elvis releases two singles "Kiss Me Quick"/"Suspicion" and "What'd I Say"/"Viva Las Vegas"

May 30, 1964 - Johnny Rivers' "Memphis" enters the Hot 100 at #88. By June 13, 1964, it's already in the top 40.

July '64 - Elvis releases "Such A Night"/"Never Ending"

Again, Doc Carpenter, Elvis had plenty of time to put "Memphis" out. Let's say that Imperial released Johnny's "Memphis" sometime in May '64. If that were the case, he would have known that Elvis had just put out two singles the previous month and none of them featured "Memphis" on them. He had to be wondering what the hell was going on in the Presley camp if indeed Elvis bragged about his January '64 cut when he jammed on it, most likely using the scenario of '64 in late February/March/April while filming "Roustabout". This would put Marty Lacker's supposed verbal assault on Johnny sometime in June '64 while "Memphis" is racing up the charts and Elvis was again in Hollywood to make "Girl Happy". While I won't deny that what Marty Lacker claims to have said to Johnny isn't true. I seriously take issue by him insinuating that Elvis felt the same way towards Johnny. Not only that, it flies in the face of what most Elvis fans have read about Elvis' personal feelings towards other artists. He always felt that there was room for everybody. If Elvis really felt that way about Johnny Rivers, in my book it would have made Elvis look like the biggest hypocrite when he and the Colonel sent the Beatles a welcoming telegram on the Beatles first Sullivan appearance.

Again, I don't know how much I can stress it. If Elvis felt so strongly about "Memphis", he should have demanded that it got put out. I simply do not buy that Elvis didn't have much input in selecting his singles. Just the year before, Elvis released "Devil In Disguise" less than one month after recording it, so I guess you can say that it was rush-released. Why was it rush released in that instance but yet when it comes to "Memphis" it wasn't rush-released even though Elvis thought so much of it.

Daryl

Sun Apr 08, 2007 11:15 am

drjohncarpenter wrote:Elvis did not meet Rivers until 1964, and the acetate he was so excited about was the January 1964 re-recording, a great improvement over the previous version, which is why the 1963 master did not see official release until 1990.

You can close the book on this one now, Daryl.


Amen.

Sun Apr 08, 2007 12:23 pm

"Suspicion"/"Kiss Me Quick" was a Gold standard release, by "popular demand" from a previously released album and not a mainline single release. Elvis probably delayed releasing "Memphis" in order to avoid interfering with "Kissin' Cousins" chart run. As to why he released that before "Memphis", the answer is simple- he had a movie to promote. It was a crummy song from a crummy movie but business is business.

Whether or not Rivers' stole "Memphis" from Elvis is irrelevant (we've had this argument many times before.) However, to say that Elvis' version would have not been a major hit is too lose contact with reality. The commercial viability of "Memphis" had been established by Lonnie Mack the previous year. Throughout the decade, vocal versions of previous instrumental hits scored extremely well on the charts- "Moon River", "Grazing in the Grass" etc. In that way, the idea was in the air. "Memphis" would have guaranteed airplay for Elvis because of the novelty of the song being his hometown. Plus, Elvis' version is a dynamic, brilliantly sung record. That big drum dual drum intro would have torn up the charts and the contrast between the tenderness of Elvis' vocal and the rhythmic drive would have audiences torn up.

That anyone can prefer Johnny Rivers' nuance free version to Elvis' vastly superior rendition is beyond me. It's not as wretched as his assault on "Tracks of My Tears" or his thuggishly clumsy "Baby I Need Your Loving" (there used to be a station that insisted on playing his version over the Four Tops making me scream in frustration) but if I never heard it again I wouldn't be missing anything. If I were Elvis if Johnny Rivers ever outdid me on any song, even if I was high as kite, I would quit the business. The man, a Michael Bolton before his time, could ruin a song with the best of them. Even on something can't miss like "Secret Agent Man" he almost whiffs but is saved by the quality of the tune and the band. He had a couple decent tracks like "Poor Side of Town","Summer Rain" and his not as good as Harold Dorman "Mountain of Love" but mostly he was a hack.

Elvis could spare the gold but to be undone by a second rater must have been galling.

P.S. Pete nothing stopped radio programmers and DJs from flipping "Kissin' Cousins" over and playing "It Hurts Me". Many times in that era, programmers and DJs would prefer the flip to the more heavily promoted A-side. It was enough of an issue that Phil Spector often refused to put anything approaching music on a B-side because he was afraid of double crossed by DJs who would ignore his A-side. This happened with "Unchained Melody". Spector's masterwork, in his opinion was the flip, "Hung on You". He was none pleased by DJs and the audience preferring the remake.

Sun Apr 08, 2007 12:46 pm

Well put likethebike!

Sun Apr 08, 2007 9:31 pm

likethebike wrote:That anyone can prefer Johnny Rivers' nuance free version to Elvis' vastly superior rendition is beyond me. It's not as wretched as his assault on "Tracks of My Tears" or his thuggishly clumsy "Baby I Need Your Loving" (there used to be a station that insisted on playing his version over the Four Tops making me scream in frustration) but if I never heard it again I wouldn't be missing anything.


Good post, as usual, likethebike, except that I kinda prefer Rivers' version of Baby I Need Your Lovin'...as much as I love the Four Tops. Dare I say, his version seems a bit more soulful in delivery.
I'm far from a Johnny Rivers fan, but I do like his rendition of that. Put me in front of a firing squad if you must ;-)
But there's no way in my book, that Johnny's version of Memphis would have outsold Elvis'...Elvis would have knocked Johnny off the charts!

Axe

Mon Apr 09, 2007 5:55 am

Elvis' Memphis would've hit big in '63, but by after the Beatles/British invasion hit musical trends changed practically overnight. Elvis' '64 version, while a solid performance, just didn't sound contemporary for that time. Rivers' record had that funky-for-the-time Jimmy Reed feel to it, plus that great distinctive closing riff.

Elvis could've got Memphis out as an A side instead of Kiss Me Quick. A single of Memphis/Suspicion would've been interesting chartwise.

Bike, I know the DJ's could've easily elected to spin It Hurts Me over the A side Kissin' Cousins. But DJ's generally went with the designated A side. But granting your point one then has to wonder why didn't they "rebel" so to speak and spin It Hurts Me, given it's obvious superiority. KC had no business being a top 15 hit. The backing track is crisp, energetic and rocking, but it's arguably the most lyrically corny single Elvis had released up to that time. At least Rock-a-Hula Baby (which I'm not a big fan of) had a certain witty, winking charm to it.

Mon Apr 09, 2007 8:59 am

Pete: I'll grant you that It Hurts Me is musically superior, but it's missing something. What we DJs call a "hook." Say what you want about Kissin' Cousins it's catchy. It's got a great sing along chorus. It's got a hook. Listeners love songs with hooks. Listeners call and request songs with great hooks. Over and over and over. I called, my friends, their friends called. More requests, more spins, equals more airplay.
In addition, Kissin' Cousins had the movie going for it (additional exposure).

I've been a DJ in commercial radio since May of '72. Speaking about a song with a "hook" I recall "Burning Love." Most people I encountered back then couldn't sing many of the lyrics, but they knew the hook.
"Just a Hunka, Hunka Burnin' Love."
Last edited by JerryNodak on Mon Apr 09, 2007 10:40 am, edited 1 time in total.

Mon Apr 09, 2007 9:08 am

An incredibly interesting aspect of the botched 1964 Kissin' Cousins/It Hurts Me release fiasco was how that record actually sold in excess of 750,000-800,000 records :?:

definitely musta been that hook ... :wink:

Mon Apr 09, 2007 6:23 pm

JerryNodak wrote:Pete: I'll grant you that It Hurts Me is musically superior, but it's missing something. What we DJs call a "hook."


True Jerry true. It Hurts Me could've just as easily been titled If I Had Someone Like You, which is the hookiest part of the song. By the way Jerry, how do you, as a DJ, think Little Egypt would've done as a single?

Tue Apr 10, 2007 8:49 am

Pete: I've always found it strange that there wasn't a single released in conjunction with Roustabout. Certainly Little Egypt was a candidate.
Possibly paired up with Hard Knocks or Big Love, Big Heartache or It's A Wonderful World.

I seem to recall reading somewhere that It's A Wonderful World was considered in the peliminary rounds for an Oscar nomination for Best Song or something.

I see no reason why Little Egypt paired up with another film song or a Nashville studio tune wouldn't have been a hit. At least as big as Ain't That Lovin' You Baby/Ask Me. Probably bigger.

Of course, so much would have depended on what they paired it with. Elvis was known for two sided hits. Split airplay affects everything.



In any case Roustabout had songs with "hit" potential (imo).

Fri Apr 13, 2007 3:16 pm

Hello,

Likethebike, does it really matter that "Kiss Me Quick"/"Suspicion" was a Gold Standard Series 45? I think not considering that "Kiss Me Quick" charted in at #34, only five spots below what "It Hurts Me" came in at (#29).

As far as "It Hurts Me" is concerned, the reason it wasn't a bigger hit than it's A-side "Kissin' Cousins" isn't because of it's lack of a hook as Jerry suggested, but rather because some of the lyrics are mundane ("he's just that kind of guy") and the fact that Elvis sings that verse a tad off. To me, the '68 television special version of "It Hurts Me" is far superior to the '64 version, mainly because Elvis sings this line in a more believable fashion. As much as some might want to complain about the lyrics to "Kissin' Cousins", what the #($!@ does "he's just that kind of guy" mean? I could understand if a woman was singing that verse, but not Elvis. That has to be one of the weakest written verses that Elvis ever put to tape. But only in '68 could Elvis pull it off with conviction.

It's quite obvious that the line "he's just that kind of guy" was written from a woman's perspective, Joy Byers. No straight man would ever comment about another guy in that way. It would almost be too queer. And I seriously doubt that Charlie Daniels is queer.


But getting back to "Memphis", I found likethebike's comments about Johnny Rivers disturbing. Is he blinded by his own dislike of Rivers? 17 Top 40 hits (a respectable amount). In excellent physical appearance at the age of 64 and still performing live. You could argue that Rivers looks better at the age of 64 than Presley did at the ages of 39, 40, 41 and 42. Started his own record label, Soul City in 1966. Did Elvis even contemplate having his own record label? I didn't think so. Helped finance the Monterrey Pop Festival. Accomplished songwriter (#1 with "Poor Side Of Town", Ricky Nelson's "I'll Make Believe"). Signed killer songwriters to his publishing company (Jimmy Webb). Was respected by other artists. Let's face it, when he was jamming with Elvis on "Memphis" in '63, '64 or whenever, he was a relatively unknown. Elvis must have thought a lot of him to jam with him. Bob Dylan thought Rivers' version of "Positively 4th Street" was better than his own recording. Check out Dylan's Chronicles Vol. 1. Rivers was an accomplished producer (The 5th Dimension) as well ("Go Where You Wanna Go" & "Up, Up And Away"). Worked with one of the greatest record producers of all time, Lou Adler (Sam Cooke, Mamas And The Papas, and so on... And last but not least, what about that cover of the Four Tops' "Baby, I Need Your Loving" that likethebike just dies for. Well the songwriting team of Holland/Dozier/Holland were so knocked out by Rivers' version of "Baby, I Need Your Loving" that they spun it 30 times in a row to pick apart the details.

Not too shabby for a hack, I guess. I'd hate to see what he could do with even more talent.

Daryl
Last edited by Daryl on Sat Apr 14, 2007 7:55 am, edited 2 times in total.

Fri Apr 13, 2007 4:35 pm

Daryl wrote:what the #($!@ does "he's just that kind of guy" mean? I could understand if a woman was singing that verse, but not Elvis. That has to be one of the weakest written verses that Elvis ever put to tape. But only in '68 could Elvis pull it off with conviction.

It's quite obvious that the line "he's just that kind of guy" was written from a woman's perspective, Joy Byers. No straight man would ever comment about another guy in that way. It would almost be too queer in a weird sort of way.

Daryl


Are you for real? I mean seriously, are you for real? That has to be the most rediculous thing I have read in a long time, if only for the conviction of your statement.

Oh, I know he never will set you free
Because he's just that kind of guy
But if you ever tell him you're through
I'll be waiting for you
Waiting to hold you so tight
Waiting to kiss you goodnight
Yes, darling, if I had someone like you


If you can't follow the narritive and perspective of the song, that of a guy in love with a woman who is with a man who treats her wrong then here's the thing: you have failed at interpretation.

:roll:

You use of the word "queer" says a lot too.

Fri Apr 13, 2007 4:45 pm

Matthew,

You fail to comprehend that a guy would never phrase it in that manner. A guy would never say "he's just that kind of guy" about another guy who's treating a woman that he loves poorly. I understand completely the perspective of the song. But at the end of the day, "he's just that kind of guy" is a throw-away line and in 1964 Elvis sang it like it was one. Listen to it.

Fri Apr 13, 2007 4:59 pm

Daryl wrote:A guy would never say "he's just that kind of guy" about another guy who's treating a woman that he loves poorly.


Why not??

If I say some guy I know is "just the kind of guy" to treat his girl badly how is that "queer" as you so elegantly put it?

Fri Apr 13, 2007 5:12 pm

Matthew,

The line "he's just that kind of guy" comes across as if the singer (in this case, Elvis) is concerned with not hurting "that kind of guy's" feelings by not coming out and saying what kind of guy he really is. Abusive?, Jealous?, Possessive? or what.

Most guys would gladly speak freely if they thought "that kind of guy" was a jerk and wouldn't concern themselves with hiding what they think of "that kind of guy", which is what the line insinuates.

Daryl

Fri Apr 13, 2007 5:20 pm

Daryl wrote:The line "he's just that kind of guy" comes across as if the singer (in this case, Elvis) is concerned with not hurting "that kind of guy's" feelings by not coming out and saying what kind of guy he really is. Abusive?, Jealous?, Possessive? or what.


I fail to see how you derive the narrator being concerned with not hurting the other guy’s feelings from:

Oh, I know he never will set you free
Because he's just that kind of guy


Instead the narrator is singing from a distance to the woman he has fallen for who herself is in love with another man, in this case one that doesn't treat her with the love, kindness, and respect the narrator feels she deserves. Its all there to be heard in plain English.