Complete Sessions?

I see where Keith is coming from (and some of the ommissions do grate, now that he mentions it) but I still love that "HIS HAND IN MINE" FTD, as with all the previous classic albums.

They're very listenable as presented. Someday I'd like to hear all of the sessions, but how often would I return to them? But the outtakes are presented in a "listener-friendly" way.


Matthew wrote:

Well thankfully I have no interest in the soundtracks.

Your loss! How can you collect all those Japanese remasters and even the '99 Elvis is Back! version you are hunting down on the "trading section" and not at least try the FTD classic album versions of the soundtracks? There are some gems in there, believe me.

I see where Keith is coming from (and some of the ommissions do grate, now that he mentions it) but I still love that "HIS HAND IN MINE" FTD, as with all the previous classic albums.

They're very listenable as presented. Someday I'd like to hear all of the sessions, but how often would I return to them? But the outtakes are presented in a "listener-friendly" way.


Matthew wrote:

Well thankfully I have no interest in the soundtracks.

Your loss! How can you collect all those Japanese remasters and even the '99 Elvis is Back! version you are hunting down on the "trading section" and not at least try the FTD classic album versions of the soundtracks? There are some gems in there, believe me.

I haven't collected all the Japanese remasters. I want the Elvis Is Back to finish a collection. The 50s soundtracks are in a league of their own and are really in line with all the 50s recordings. I'd hardly call his movie soundtracks classic albums expect for GI Blues and Blue Hawaii. Command Performances otherwise serves my needs for the rare occasions I listen to material from the movies.

sorry jerry i'm like keith i have to have it all. some people are satified with a little i'm not.

I agree with you Greg. As much as I would have loved to have the sessions as complete as possible, I must admit that I'm more than pleased with what has come through so far.
Even though I would not recomment Clambake to Matthew in the soundtrack section, I would indeed recommend albums like Kid Galahad, Follow That Dream and Viva Las Vegas. But, to each his own!

Milky White Way - False Start of Take 7 before the Master
He Knows Just What I Need - Take 9
Surrender - Take 4 (Used for Master)
Surrender - Work Part Take 1
Surrender - Work Part Take 2
Surrender - Work Part Take 8 (Used for Master)
Mansion Over The Hilltop - False Start of Take 3 before the Master
In My Father's House - Take 8 (Used for Master)
In My Father's House - Work Part (Used for Master)

What if they just hadn`t these pieces by the hand for what reason ever when they compiled the disc..??
These parts used for the spliced master..couldn`t it be that they just don´t have em in complete form any more since they were part of the spliced master take..?? Just a thought..

I would also like to see the FTD discs include the complete seesions, as space permits (such as the case with 'His Hand In Mine" apparently).

I'm also a fan of count-ins, false starts, etc. as it provides me with a "fly on the wall" perspective into the creative process of Elvis, the producer and other musicians involved... the more insight I have, the better!

Heck, if it were up to me (and it isn't, I know!) FTD would release all the existing studio session reels on CD... without album titles, artwork, etc. other than "Studio Reel ABC, from month/date/year recorded at Sunset Recorders" followed by a track listing and the people involved. To save mastering costs, just issue them as "flat" transfers from the master tape(s)/multitracks. Completely unrealistc? Yeah, without a doubt... but it sure would be nice.

I was playing the FTD set 'His Hand In Mine' again tonight, and wondered why FTD couldn't have included the Complete session?

Ernst has quite clearly stated that FTD CDs are made to be listenable releases, not academic exercises.

He has further detailed that just because about 80 minutes of music can fit on a disc doesn't mean that any FTD release should -- or will -- be filled in that manner.

By any measure, it seems that most normal fans are more than happy with the FTD releases, as conceived by Mr. Jørgensen.

Keep up the excellent work, Ernst!

Keep up the excellent work, Ernst!

It's not always excellent work Doc, i think that Ernst has finally gotten the BMG atitude (print 'em up and ship 'em out). A lot of the sound on the FTD's has a lot to be desired, there has been no thought given to the quality of some of the disc's.
If you look at Kevan Budds work, it is amazing (ALL FTD's should at LEAST get the best sound treatment available, and look at Lene Reidl's (sp?) work, there's no comparison (piss poor).
I have no problem with the artwork (never had) as it's the music that counts (as you said yourself) so why is Ernst allowing Elvis' work to be released with subpar sound.

In general Ernst has done a fantastic job, but at the end of the day, he gives the final go ahead to release these discs and i am sure he is given a copy when the mastering is first completed.

Why couldn't every FTD be remastered like "Let Yourself Go", there is no money spent on artwork so it should at least be spent on sound quality.

You yourself have championed sound quality e.g "Let Yourself Go" , The MDQ and "Elvis At Sun" so why igore the bad quality on the FTD's??

The piss poor atitude of BMG towards Elvis' main catalogue is now crossing over to the FTD series. The clicking sound on the "New Years Eve" 2disc is only one example of this.

Is it too much to ask for decent sound? I think not! It probably the only thing we ask for.

I for one don't think Ernst should be above criticism.

In general Ernst has done a fantastic job ...

Nice to see you agree!

Thanks for this post Keith!

I love the His Hand in Mine FTD. But ever since I got it I have been thinking the same thing as you - why leave off takes especially if there is disc space?


drjohncarpenter wrote

it seems that most normal fans are more than happy with the FTD releases

I am quite happy with this FTD and I am a "normal" fan, but I would love to have complete sessions.


RKSNASVILLE

... ever since I got it I have been thinking ... why leave off takes especially if there is disc space?

I trust my comments above put your mind at ease.

I am quite happy with this FTD ...

Mission accomplished!

I dont like classic albums on FTD! I might change tommorow BUT it is almost like they are FAKE on FTD...They look like bad bootleg reproductions made in @##!# somewhere.... I want to buy them in the store next to everyone thats worth anything in pop culture etc...

In general Ernst has done a fantastic job ...

Nice to see you agree!

... ever since I got it I have been thinking ... why leave off takes especially if there is disc space?

I trust my comments above put your mind at ease.

I am quite happy with this FTD ...

Mission accomplished!

Doc, if you are going to quote someone, then please quote the FULL statement, and not what suits you. At least show others the respect that you continuously say is lacking on this board.

I haven't collected all the Japanese remasters. I want the Elvis Is Back to finish a collection. The 50s soundtracks are in a league of their own and are really in line with all the 50s recordings. I'd hardly call his movie soundtracks classic albums expect for GI Blues and Blue Hawaii. Command Performances otherwise serves my needs for the rare occasions I listen to material from the movies.

Given that in most cases, the sound is improved at least on the outtakes and the packaging is through the roof, I just think it's a bit of a weird cut-off to suddenly decide (without even trying) that an FTD like "Viva Las Vegas" or "Follow That Dream" is suddenly not worth having.

Believe me, if you someone gave you one for free, you'd find the charms right off the bat. You'll get with it sooner or later!




****************

I tend to agree that FTD is doing a bang-up (great) job and one does not have to be an Ernst boot licker to say so. I'm as critical as anyone about the Sony/BMG work on the RCA catalogue, so when I say FTD is fantastic, it's sincere.

I think Keith raised interesting but constructive points, but even he, I'm betting from past comments, knows that Ernst has done great work with FTD and would not outright slam it as some seem to be doing.

Keep it constructive, I say. Promocollector, Mr. Jorgensen is not above criticism but comments like are yours over-the-top and lack perspective and are way too damning:

It's not always excellent work Doc, i think that Ernst has finally gotten the BMG atitude (print 'em up and ship 'em out). A lot of the sound on the FTD's has a lot to be desired, there has been no thought given to the quality of some of the disc's.

....

so why is Ernst allowing Elvis' work to be released with subpar sound.

there is no money spent on artwork so it should at least be spent on sound quality.

so why igore the bad quality on the FTD's??

Let's install Promocollector as head honcho on Elvis material at Sony/BMG. Surely he can take on the suits.....

You can't please everyone i suppose, if you are more than happy to fork out upto $30 for a brand new cd that has poorer sound (most FTD soundtracks) than the same songs released a decade ago (Double Features) then fair enough.

If you are quite happy getting Elvis' musical legacy released in poor sound than you will never see the man get the respect he deserves.

Let's hope Ernst's Sun project gets the same treatment as the FTD soundtracks because a few people here really don't care about the sound, i mean, is the sound quality REALLY that important anyway?

Last edited by Promocollector on Wed Jan 17, 2007 10:18 pm, edited 2 times in total.

Let's install Promocollector as head honcho on Elvis material at Sony/BMG. Surely he can take on the suits.....

Again you miss the point, we are talking about the FTD releases, not the main label releases!!

I have always been under the impression that Ernst has been given a free reign with the FTD label. If he can release a disc with the sound quality of "Let Yourself Go" then why not put the same effort into ALL FTD releases?? After all, they are now more expensive then main label discs. You can get new releases from top acts like U2 & Springsteen for less than the price of an FTD disc, but hey 'tis your money.

That is my point but which you (and others) still won't/can't answer.

You probably can't tell the difference in sound quality between "Let Yourself Go" and "Clambake" anyway.

I think Keith raised interesting but constructive points, but even he, I'm betting from past comments, knows that Ernst has done great work with FTD and would not outright slam it as some seem to be doing.

In NO way am I trying to slam Ernst or FTD - I've always praised Ernst to the hilt for the work he has done, and is still doing, with this label!

I purely pointed out that there was in fact space left that could have been filled with sessions they do actually have.

I'll say again - maybe Ernst does this because he thinks the fans don't want to hear complete sessions. I think if he reads this thread he'll know that we DO want to hear them.

I'll say again - maybe Ernst does this because he thinks the fans don't want to hear complete sessions.

There is no "maybe." I'll say again -- my comments above detail exactly Ernst's perspective.

... if he reads this thread he'll know that we DO want to hear them.

No. If he reads this thread -- not likely -- he'll know that YOU want to hear them.

I'll say again - maybe Ernst does this because he thinks the fans don't want to hear complete sessions.

There is no "maybe." I'll say again -- my comments above detail exactly Ernst's perspective.

... if he reads this thread he'll know that we DO want to hear them.

No. If he reads this thread -- not likely -- he'll know that YOU want to hear them.

And I.

I'll say again - maybe Ernst does this because he thinks the fans don't want to hear complete sessions.

There is no "maybe." I'll say again -- my comments above detail exactly Ernst's perspective.

... if he reads this thread he'll know that we DO want to hear them.

No. If he reads this thread -- not likely -- he'll know that YOU want to hear them.

So I can take it from that comment that you DON'T want to?

also, if you don't think Ernst will read this thread, why this comment?

Keep up the excellent work, Ernst!

We may be able to count the individual takes missing but that does not neccessarily represent what is on tape. There could be hours of material on the tapes from between takes - so having a few outtakes left over means there is material still to release to edit the studio chat on to.

Andrew

I'll say again - maybe Ernst does this because he thinks the fans don't want to hear complete sessions.

No - as stated earlier - releasing complete sessions is commercially not viable. In addition, releasing all outtakes of 'Dominic' or 30 + FS of "Shake That Tambourine' - is not of significant interest to the avg collector and even conflicts with one of FTD's main objectives:

To make artistically and historically important material available for the dedicated collector.

I think if he reads this thread he'll know that we DO want to hear them.

Again you are missing the point, Ernst made it very clear that he is not going to release complete sessions. Perhaps the quote below will help to put the feasibility of your request into perspective:

FECC -Ask Ernst- Part 4:
I know when FTD was launched you said you would not be releasing complete sessions works, has your view changed on this ? These other weaker takes would otherwise remain unreleased but as part of a complete session it may find a place at showing what Elvis went through to get to the end result. ( Mike G. from England )

I think we can/should do this with some selected songs .

And again:

FECC - Ask Ernst- Part I:
A final note.
Neither Roger Semon nor I run RCA Records or BMG for that matter. We don't decide everything on Elvis, and neither does anybody else. If there are certain releases you don't like - don't buy them.

How difficult is that? We try to please everybody - but not at the same time.

If Ernst thinks the market is there to release full sessions I think he may change his ideas!

Oh, and by the way - It IS Ernst who has the last say on what is and what is not released on FTD! Believe you me!

Keith, I don't blame you for trying, but I tend to think it will be for historians (and any fans who still care) "a hundred years from now" to pour over the tapes on something like archive.org.

Until then, while record companies still exist, still have copyrights, still care somewhat about a commerical market, I guess I'll settle for "His Hand In Mine" on FTD, sans a few takes here or there. Such is life.

I do think you manage to make constructive criticism without sounding like some of the entitled, overheated "I could do better" -types who assumes they know what kind of working environment (budget, time constraints, parameters,etc.) that Ernst, Kevan Budd or Roger Semon have to operate in.


"Promocollector" wrote:

ou can't please everyone i suppose, if you are more than happy to fork out upto $30 for a brand new cd that has poorer sound (most FTD soundtracks) than the same songs released a decade ago (Double Features) then fair enough.

First off, if you're patient, one does not even have to pay that much. I didn't. I haven't gotten them all yet, either, but I really look forward to "Follow that Dream" for example, which I don't have yet. You're going to be satified with that dinky D/F?

Secondly, who declares (besides you) that the sound was universally worse than the D/F's? I've heard many specific complaints about this or that master, but almost universally, people have praised at least outtakes for their incredible sound. Even if the masters are better on D/F's (and that's marginal, if true at all), it's all better than the vinyl, to be sure.

If you are quite happy getting Elvis' musical legacy
released in poor sound than you will never see the man get the respect he deserves.

Suddenly, I don't care about sound? No. I enjoy all of the audiophile discussions and care as much as anyone. And everyone, it seems, even among "audiophiles," seems to have their own particular (peculiar?) favorites and duds.

Let's hope Ernst's Sun project gets the same treatment as the FTD soundtracks because a few people here really don't care about the sound, i mean, is the sound quality REALLY that important anyway? :

Who is this strawman you've created?

Again you miss the point, we are talking about the FTD releases, not the main label releases!!

Not at all. The state of the main catalog is worth noting and I've never been a "Ernst is God" type, which is why I brought it up. It informs what I then proceed to say about the FTD's.

I have always been under the impression that Ernst has been given a free reign with the FTD label.

Do we really know the extent of that? Some of you act as if it's his only concern. I still say we should recognize that by and large, he's done a fabulous job and to hear the negativity of some fans is way out of proportion.

If he can release a disc with the sound quality of "Let Yourself Go" then why not put the same effort into ALL FTD releases?? After all, they are now more expensive then main label discs. You can get new releases from top acts like U2 & Springsteen for less than the price of an FTD disc, but hey 'tis your money

.

Questions, questions.... What oppression we fans live under... Let me ask you: did you live through the RCA releases of the '70s and '80s? I'd like cheaper prices, too (the US seems to have the steepest prices), but what are you going to do? Such is capitalism. I don't like it but everyone's always trying to make a buck. We could kick cans about it all day or just figure out a way to come up with the cash. Most of us eventually do.

That is my point but which you (and others) still won't/can't answer.

You probably can't tell the difference in sound quality between "Let Yourself Go" and "Clambake" anyway.

Promo, go take a cold shower, will you? Seriously, you and Keith are critical here, for different reasons as far as I can tell, but one person seems appreciative of Ernst Jorgensen's knock-out work and another person just assumes the world should be exactly as we want it.

Last edited by Gregory Nolan Jr. on Thu Jan 18, 2007 8:11 am, edited 1 time in total.

Again you are missing the point, Ernst made it very clear that he is not going to release complete sessions. Perhaps the quote below will help to put the feasibility of your request into perspective:

FECC -Ask Ernst- Part 4:
I know when FTD was launched you said you would not be releasing complete sessions works, has your view changed on this ? These other weaker takes would otherwise remain unreleased but as part of a complete session it may find a place at showing what Elvis went through to get to the end result. ( Mike G. from England )

I think we can/should do this with some selected songs .

Disc 2 - Loving You FTD as an example.

Your continued reference to poor movie songs in the argument against releasing whole sessions is a little off the mark. The release in question in this thread is His Hand In Mine, a seminal gospel music session. The point being made is that there was material to fill up the near 20 minutes of disc space. You will note both Elvis Is Back and Something For Everybody are both pretty much stacked to the rafters with material, neither lessening the listening experience.

Should FTD release complete sessions? Not in all cases. In the case of His Hand In Mine I am sure most would argue a few extra minutes of music from this phenomenal album would not have degraded the release. As it stands it is still a fantastic effort in the definition of the Classic Album series concept.

And again:

FECC - Ask Ernst- Part I:
A final note.
Neither Roger Semon nor I run RCA Records or BMG for that matter. We don't decide everything on Elvis, and neither does anybody else. If there are certain releases you don't like - don't buy them.

How difficult is that? We try to please everybody - but not at the same time.

You will note my earier post was in regards to FTD, not RCA, BMG, or Sony. Ernst has the final say. The "business case" or more commonly 'business plan', or 'business proposal' would have been for the FTD label itself, not every single disc release that is put out under the label.