All posts with more than 3000 Hits, prior to 2008

Sat Jan 13, 2007 8:44 am

Gregory Nolan Jr. wrote:Dallas '75 better than Birmingham, '76?

Joan Deary's selection of June 1975 live material for Elvis Aron Presley was right for a number of reasons, among them sound quality, selection, mood and vocal consistency. They finished off an ambitious box set covering mostly previously-unissued music from 1956 to 1977, including outstanding gigs from 1956 and 1961, and choice moments from 1968, 1969 and 1970. The live show at the end had to stand up and, with the rock "feel" Elvis imbued his music in the summer of 1975, it did. If she'd used Birmingham or Chicago '76 then, or on the 1984 box, it would've been a mistake.

As it was, Joan was being phased out by the time of A Golden Celebration, with producer credits for the Tupelo 1956 shows, and the 1959 (Bad Nauheim) and 1966 (Los Angeles) home demos only. All the rest was done by Gregg Geller.

Gregory Nolan Jr. wrote:... his still-maturing voice was arguably richer and more powerful than ever (at his best) in '76-'77 than in '75.

That's a good one.

Sat Jan 13, 2007 8:57 am

Gregory Nolan Jr. wrote:Dallas '75 better than Birmingham, '76? Whatever the strengths of '75 era Elvis, his annoyingly jokey-attitude heard on the "Elvis Aron Presley" version of the Texas concert as well as the bootleg is in high contrast with his "aiming-to-please/ young-girlfriend-in-the-audience" inspiration of late '76. Besides, looming death aside, his still-maturing voice was arguably richer and more powerful than ever (at his best) in '76-'77 than in '75.

Yes, I'd buy either bi or straight version of any upgraded version of Birmingham, Ger :!: It's one of my favorites, as far as late period Elvis goes. Weaned on the '77 "Elvis in Concert" in some ways, this surpasses it (like Dallas and Pittsburgh) showing a fired-up King, if one can tune out other problems and influences he betrays.

The Birmingham cover shot won't be hard to improve and surely the current standard is for a deluxe booklet, chock with photos and original, an informative essay. I say enlist wordsmith Sniffy McGillis one more time. :lol:


im afraid Greg ill have to disagree with you, the 75 shows are much better quality due to reasons cited by the Doc and admittedly a personal preference i have for them. I cant deal with Elvis' jazz scat vocal all over the place he has in 76 primarily those shows in Dec. Just doesn't do it for me.

Sat Jan 13, 2007 8:59 am

drjohncarpenter wrote:
Gregory Nolan Jr. wrote:... his still-maturing voice was arguably richer and more powerful than ever (at his best) in '76-'77 than in '75.

That's a good one.


I don't get this, either. Although Elvis' voice changed rapidly over time, the last significant change can be heard in and around 1975 (e.g. the "Today" album). He has a thicker voice in that period than when he began the decade. But that's about it. He was already sitting on bags of power -- as he demonstrated in 1960 and arguably refined somewhat in 1966. Every weapon in his vocal arsenal was firmly in place by that year.

Sat Jan 13, 2007 10:02 am

Elvis died too damn young and his voice changed due to maturity mixed with ill health. Had he made a health comeback he most probably have had greater output in quality and performance compared to most of the 70s. Jackson Browne and many artists like Macca were not even half way through when Elvis was at his sad and too early final stretch as an artist and as a man. Those Xmas songs from 71 show an Elvis sounding older thaN 1975...EVEN COMPARES TO A LOT OF 76,77...BUT HE DID SHOW MUCH POWER AT LEAST FOR SOME SONGS TO THE VERY EARLY END.

Sat Jan 13, 2007 10:30 am

JLGB wrote:Elvis died too damn young and his voice changed due to maturity mixed with ill health. Had he made a health comeback he most probably have had greater output in quality and performance compared to most of the 70s. Jackson Browne and many artists like Macca were not even half way through when Elvis was at his sad and too early final stretch as an artist and as a man. Those Xmas songs from 71 show an Elvis sounding older thaN 1975...EVEN COMPARES TO A LOT OF 76,77...BUT HE DID SHOW MUCH POWER AT LEAST FOR SOME SONGS TO THE VERY EARLY END.


Very sad and very true.

Mon Jan 15, 2007 8:05 pm

ImageImage
The King in Birmingham sizes up the '80 silver box.

drjohncarpenter wrote:
Gregory Nolan Jr. wrote:Dallas '75 better than Birmingham, '76?


Gregory Nolan Jr. wrote:... his still-maturing voice was arguably richer and more powerful than ever (at his best) in '76-'77 than in '75.

That's a good one.


Indeed it is: I call it my opinion :roll: :lol: , which you also are entitled to.

I also know you are one who one of the lone souls who champion the '71 and "Aloha" version of "My Way," and have overall shown mostly disdain for late period Elvis, particularly the strengths of the "Elvis In Concert" album that many of us have mentioned as existing in spite of his sad condition.

I'm under no illusions about some of the slide in quality and inspiration, but I maintain that his powerful, rich voice on the Birmingham, Dallas and Pittsburgh shows of '76-77 were a career highlight for those willing to listen. And I do like some of that (rather occasional) scat-style singing, Cryo, no matter what is fueling.

I'm a fan of the "Elvis Aron Presley" set and enjoyed very much when it was given as a gift in 1980, despite a negative review in Rolling Stone I recall at the time. I just find that Dallas-based '75 concert to be too close to say, the already well-documented by RCA '72 or '74 Elvis, and rather jokey at that. Witness his unserious version of "American Trilogy," which ruined the set for me, as with the so-so but interesting return to "The Wonder of You" and others. I had this set in my car on cassette some years back and eventualy came to dread hearing it.

As for the late period I refert to, it's a different sound he had at the end (a far cry from "Elvis Is Back!" or "From Elvis In Memphis" or "On Stage" to be sure) and it is an acquired tasted for some.

I think of those late '76 shows as showing what a "full-on" / fully-engaged "Elvis in Concert" CBS Special might have captured. It only did in spots, as we know: "Trying to Get to You," "You Gave Me A Mountain," "Hurt," "My Way" and other mostly non-rock tracks.

Cryo, the voice I'm describing is an extention of that "thicker" voice which we heard on '75's "Today," to be sure. We just hear it applied to more songs on this one.

I think the Birmingham and Dallas shows, along with Pittsburgh, really need little defending here. I have enjoyed many imports from '75, plus the FTD's that cover '75, from "Southern Nights," (mainly for the "alternate" selection it offers) to the excellent "Big Boss Man" and less so "Dixieland Rocks" which has elements of the disconnected Elvis I noted on the Dallas tracks of "Elvis Aron Presley" boxset.

Image

Tue Jan 16, 2007 3:08 am

Gregory Nolan Jr. wrote:I also know you are one who one of the lone souls who champion the '71 and "Aloha" version of "My Way," ...

Say what? I've never posted such comments.

Gregory Nolan Jr. wrote:... and have overall shown mostly disdain for late period Elvis, particularly the strengths of the "Elvis In Concert" album that many of us have mentioned as existing in spite of his sad condition.

I'm under no illusions about some of the slide in quality and inspiration ...

You just contradicted yourself. And my thoughts on 1977 Elvis are never purely disdainful -- but they are always honest.

Gregory Nolan Jr. wrote:I'm a fan of the "Elvis Aron Presley" set and enjoyed very much when it was given as a gift in 1980, despite a negative review in Rolling Stone I recall at the time.

Your sense of recall really needs work. The review -- by little known critic G. Marcus -- was mixed, just like the set itself. If it's on-line, you'll find some fulsome praise for the September 1962 and March 1961 recordings.

Tue Jan 16, 2007 3:32 am

Gregory Nolan Jr. wrote:... his still-maturing voice was arguably richer and more powerful than ever (at his best) in '76-'77 than in '75.


Greg - are you referring to his stage voice here? One has to only listen to the power and range Elvis had across the Today sessions to notice the decline in both consistency and power in Elvis voice during the '76-'77 period. Sure he pulled out some moments, both in session and on stage but to say his voice was richer after '75 is a little baffling.

The final tour of '76 is certainly held in high regard, I'm one that praises it. To me he revives the spark that he had during a lot of the Sring/Summer tours of '75. Overall though his vocal abilities took a dive in late 1975 and continued through to the end. Thats not to say he didn't have his moments!

Tue Jan 16, 2007 3:56 am

Matthew wrote:One has to only listen to the power and range Elvis had across the Today sessions to notice the decline in both consistency and power in Elvis voice during the '76-'77 period. Sure he pulled out some moments, both in session and on stage but to say his voice was richer after '75 is a little baffling.

The final tour of '76 is certainly held in high regard, I'm one that praises it. To me he revives the spark that he had during a lot of the Sring/Summer tours of '75. Overall though his vocal abilities took a dive in late 1975 and continued through to the end. Thats not to say he didn't have his moments!

Spot-on, Matthew.

Re: would you buy Birmingham in Binaural ?

Tue Jan 16, 2007 4:03 am

Tallhair AKA Ger Rijff wrote:... If presented in Binaural, and cleaned up / improved , would

a re-release of this classic concert work? Response to the Binau

track[s] on one of the Legendary Performers, last year, got

mixed reviews. Some liked it, while others got a headache from

it... Now, a real good engineer [ and not the good willing amateur

from madison...] could improve it a lot. But would that be enough,

to empty your pockets for the 2nd time around?

Go for it, brother/ sister jumpsuit junkies. Speak up!


My two cents: YES - I would love to see this show re-released in Binaural.

FYI - If it was in Mono again but improved, I'd still buy it.

Rich

Tue Jan 16, 2007 4:27 am

Both DJC and Matthew seem to not be willing to acknowledge that there is a highly-subjective aspect to this discussion. I say his voice did not go downhill all the way on all counts from '75, and maintain that in some ways, it did grow richer and even more powerful.


DJC opined:

drjohncarpenter wrote:
Gregory Nolan Jr. wrote:I also know you are one who one of the lone souls who champion the '71 and "Aloha" version of "My Way," ...

Say what? I've never posted such comments.


Well, I guess I stand corrected, but I distinctly recall such a point of view unless I've confused you with Genesim. :lol: I do know that you often come off extremely sour about just about everything about "Elvis In Concert." You may mean the visuals and that he had to perform at all, but you don't pause long to bring out any of the positives that many say exist even to the end. Again, to each his own and there is no one "right answer."

DJC wrote:
Gregory Nolan Jr. wrote:... and have overall shown mostly disdain for late period Elvis, particularly the strengths of the "Elvis In Concert" album that many of us have mentioned as existing in spite of his sad condition.

I'm under no illusions about some of the slide in quality and inspiration ...

You just contradicted yourself. And my thoughts on 1977 Elvis are never purely disdainful -- but they are always honest.


And so are they here. You have no monopoly on honest commentary on Elvis Presley. And no, I did not contradict myself, thank you, good doctor, but rather pointed out that ironically, despite all the signs of decline, he still was a 42-year man who was in some ways still ripening vocally, and I say you can here that in Birmingham, Dallas, Pittsburgh and the best of '77, and more than in just spots as Matthew argues.

DJC wrote:
Gregory Nolan Jr. wrote:I'm a fan of the "Elvis Aron Presley" set and enjoyed very much when it was given as a gift in 1980, despite a negative review in Rolling Stone I recall at the time.

Your sense of recall really needs work. The review -- by little known critic G. Marcus -- was mixed, just like the set itself. If it's on-line, you'll find some fulsome praise for the September 1962 and March 1961 recordings.


Not being quite an adult at the time, my younger (Elvis loyalist) self filed it mentally as a negative review, so I don't mind being fuzzy on the details on this instance.

Surely the Dallas cuts were the least of the silver box set, next to the "Paradise, Hawaiian Style" outtakes. Personally, I like the set as a whole. Given what's since "escaped" since then on FTD and elsewhere, as well as the attention still given to an Elvis boxset , it seems they might have really packed more of a whallop back when it might have registered more with the public, one that in 1980 was still paying attention to the late King at level we probably have not seen since. I maintain that "Birmingham '76" would have shown an engaged late-period Elvis, rather than the man who was fluffing his way through "American Triology" in '75.

In any event, we'll all agree that a reissue is very welcome of the Birmingham set.

Tue Jan 16, 2007 5:34 am

Gregory Nolan Jr. wrote:Both DJC and Matthew seem to not be willing to acknowledge that there is a highly-subjective aspect to this discussion. I say his voice did not go downhill all the way on all counts from '75, and maintain that in some ways, it did grow richer and even more powerful.

That's [i]another/i] good one, Greg.

It should be noted here that you chose to add "all the way on all counts" -- changing the perspective. Neither I nor Matthew claim this. Are you unable to absorb the debate or is this a willful act?

Tue Jan 16, 2007 5:44 am

drjohncarpenter wrote:
Gregory Nolan Jr. wrote:Both DJC and Matthew seem to not be willing to acknowledge that there is a highly-subjective aspect to this discussion. I say his voice did not go downhill all the way on all counts from '75, and maintain that in some ways, it did grow richer and even more powerful.

That's [i]another/i] good one, Greg.

It should be noted here that you chose to add "all the way on all counts" -- changing the perspective. Neither I nor Matthew claim this. Are you unable to absorb the debate or is this a willful act?


And why do you use funny slash marks in your writing, Doctor? :lol:

That's [i]another/i] good one, Greg.


I always qualified my praise for his voice as it matured through '77. 'Nuff said, already.

I personally think his '70 voice remained the peak, but I'm also partial to his "big voice" that he had to the end, in spades.

Tue Jan 16, 2007 5:53 am

Greg - my post does not rule out that Elvis sung well at times during those final couple of years. More often than not though I find a weariness in his vocal abilities where as in '75 for the most part he was in control of his voice and full of energy, reaching notes with ease rather than having to muster the energy to pull them off as was often the case during the '76 - '77 period. One only has to imagine what the same set of songs recorded in March 1975 would have sounded like had they been the outcome of the Graceland sessions only 11 months later.

Tue Jan 16, 2007 6:00 am

Spot on, Matthew....er... I see where you're coming from. :lol:

It's easy to create "what if's" but without being a totally uncritical fan (and believe me, most of '76 is a hard sell to these ears) but I don't think it's that controversial to champion the King's voice in late '76 or even '77, or at least parts of the latter. I'll take commitment to ease, in this case. I admit the struggle was there, but grit is a part of music too, particularly blues, which he always pulled some of his inspiration from.

Fans have sung the praises of Birmingham, Dallas and Pittsburgh for some time with good reason and I need hardly think I'm alone in this view.

After all, how does '75 compare to '70? We talk ourselves blue in the face about it but frankly I'm glad it changed a bit, as the set list argubably was relatively static compared to other acts. We benefit that there's anything we can "hang our hat on."

Tue Jan 16, 2007 7:23 am

That Feb 12 77 show can sit right in with the 3 big ones from late December...Unless its a beauty contest.

Tue Jan 16, 2007 8:08 am

Gregory Nolan Jr. wrote:
drjohncarpenter wrote:That's [i]another/i] good one, Greg.

It should be noted here that you chose to add "all the way on all counts" -- changing the perspective. Neither I nor Matthew claim this. Are you unable to absorb the debate or is this a willful act?

And why do you use funny slash marks in your writing, Doctor?

Oh, excuse me, I thought we were having a discussion about Elvis.

See ya!

Tue Jan 16, 2007 8:12 am

Jeez, fella, and to think I actually defend you from time to time. I was obviously spoofing your pettiness and continual snide tone.


Must you always be so disagreeable? For an otherwise well-versed fellow who is an asset to the forum and elsewhere, you sure know how to drag down a discussion on Elvis.

Tue Jan 16, 2007 1:55 pm

Matthew wrote:Greg - my post does not rule out that Elvis sung well at times during those final couple of years. More often than not though I find a weariness in his vocal abilities where as in '75 for the most part he was in control of his voice and full of energy, reaching notes with ease rather than having to muster the energy to pull them off as was often the case during the '76 - '77 period. One only has to imagine what the same set of songs recorded in March 1975 would have sounded like had they been the outcome of the Graceland sessions only 11 months later.


interesting coment. Pieces of my life and TROUBLE recorded in feb 76 and hurt and never again recorded in march 75. Interesting.

Wed Jan 24, 2007 2:23 pm

i think that the remix of the show heard on the "Shining In Birmingham" dvd sounds far superior to the versions on the legendary performer cd. Bass and Elvis' vocals sound much more powerful.

Wed Jan 24, 2007 3:17 pm

Gregory Nolan Jr. wrote:Jeez, fella, and to think I actually defend you from time to time. I was obviously spoofing your pettiness and continual snide tone.


This is true - Greg defended the Doc to me on a couple of occaisions when I tried to write him off as a lost cause. He is the first one to criticize others for misuse of the quote function, so a bit of humour regarding misuse of the italic function was definitely in order :lol:


Gregory Nolan Jr. wrote:Must you always be so disagreeable? For an otherwise well-versed fellow who is an asset to the forum and elsewhere, you sure know how to drag down a discussion on Elvis.


This is oh so true!! Like a bear with a sore head is Dr Carpenter. Very disagreeable.

Wed Jan 24, 2007 11:37 pm

BIGREDG wrote:He is the first one to criticize others for misuse of the quote function.

Actually, I'm not. Care to back up the false accusation? When you discover you're mistaken yet again, an apology will be in order.

Re: would you buy Birmingham in Binaural ?

Thu Jan 25, 2007 2:51 am

Tallhair AKA Ger Rijff wrote:... If presented in Binaural, and cleaned up / improved , would

a re-release of this classic concert work? Response to the Binau

track[s] on one of the Legendary Performers, last year, got

mixed reviews. Some liked it, while others got a headache from

it... Now, a real good engineer [ and not the good willing amateur

from madison...] could improve it a lot. But would that be enough,

to empty your pockets for the 2nd time around?

Go for it, brother/ sister jumpsuit junkies. Speak up!


I've just recently compared some tracks from FB "Moody Blue" release with the same tracks on SS "Coming on strong", and I don't know what the answer is. I do believe the mixdown to mono and added reverb is a better sonic choice for these types of recordings, but it's definitely interesting to hear the original binaural source, even though it has less reverb and does sound a bit dry. It's kind of like hearing the 1957 tracks in binaural and mixed down to mono. The binaural has a bit more clarity but does not sound as full and doesn't have that much bite as there is a wider (and very artificial) stereo image. After all, stuff was recorded in binaural with the later intention of mixing down to mono, it was never intended to be released this way.

P.S.: As far as emptying out our pockets, we have done that for thirty years, so what's going to stop us? Things like "Shakin' up the great lakes", "One night only", "Greensboro '72" are all but an indication that the barrel has essentially run empty and the bootleggers are now resorting to what they have accused BMG/RCA for so many years, rehashing old products...

Re: would you buy Birmingham in Binaural ?

Thu Jan 25, 2007 11:34 pm

thenexte wrote:Things like "Shakin' up the great lakes", "One night only", "Greensboro '72" are all but an indication that the barrel has essentially run empty and the bootleggers are now ... rehashing old products...

If you consider One Night Only! a rehash, you must not have a copy.

Fri Jan 26, 2007 12:34 am

Well..the bootlegers have always used the Colonel's tactics etc...Example..Audifon included one BONUS song on every release which was a live unreleased track from Aloha rehearsal!!! :lol: :lol: :lol: Bonus :) photos booklets etc...