Bootleggers Deserve Our Respect As Well....

Rob Wrote: Not misleading at all.
It was nothing then like it is now. From 1978 to 1988, I had no soundboard shows (for example). I didn't even know what they were. Sure, we had bootlegs in plenty. But it does not compare to current day at at all.

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Ok Rob the only way that statement is true is if your primary item for collecting is Soundboards.

Here is the evidence.
This is a sample of what was released during that golden age of bootleg albums.


**The first hayride show
**More hayride performances
**Sun outtakes
**All 1950's televisions shows, except a few small segments.
**The million dollar quartet
**The 1958 home recordings
**The 1961 Hawaii benifit show
**Tons of unreleased studio outtakes
**Outtakes from the 1968 special
**Unreleased songs most never knew existed
**Tapes of live multi-track material from 1969, 1970, and 1972, and 1973 "borrowed" from RCA.
**Really great audience recordings such as the new years show, when the snow is on the roses, and others that still have not been released on soundboard.

At the time this material was NOT available anywhere else.
It's not even a close call Rob.

If I was to choose an era for bootleg surprises I would choose the the 1978-88 era over now, hands down.

Yes , with advent of digital recordings and better mastering techniques, the sounds today are better, but that isn't my point here.
We are talking about the overall material.
I am not saying we don't have it great now, but the releases are a bit predictable. Outtakes in better quality that we already have.
And some more concerts from the 1970's.
All the stuff I listed above was, get this, NEW material.
Back then we could look forward to NEW stuff.
Nearly all the stuff now released is sound upgraded of previously released material, beit legal or not.
And they are still rereleasing audience recordings, such as "since cincinnati", in debatebly better sound quality.

But the relative downfall of bootlegs should be expected with the FTD label in existance and the ongoing use of outtakes drying up.

Can't wait till the next format format so I can buy it all again.

Shyeah right!

Last edited by ekenee on Thu Dec 28, 2006 2:51 pm, edited 1 time in total.

I struggle to find the difference between a bootleg CD and a CDR copy of such!

All my CDR's are identical soundwise to the CD they originated from.

No doubt, but CDRs degrade, unlike proper CDs. In a few years I know the CDrs I have (sold to me as originals) will be unplayable.

Yes. And they look cheap, and they feel cheap. For example, who wants to own a CD-R copy of "Let It Roll" with no booklet? It's a waste of time. The booklet is about 47% of the fun with that particular release. Plus, you rip off the poor old bootleggers AKA saints if you don't pay for their releases.

Keith Richards, Jr.

And if there is a booklet included, it'll be a photocopy in poorer quality.

Ok Rob the only way that statement is true is if your primary item for collecting is Soundboards.

That would be me (primarily, but not totally).

If I was to choose an era for bootleg surprises I would choose the the 1978-88 era over now, hands down.

To each his own.

Yes , with advent of digital recordings and better mastering techniques, the sounds today are better, but that isn't my point here.

But it was my point, whether I clearly stated it or not.

I am not saying we don't have it great now, but the releases are a bit predictable. Outtakes in better quality that we already have. And some more concerts from the 1970's. All the stuff I listed above was, get this, NEW material. Back then we could look forward to NEW stuff.

"Back then" was nearly thirty years ago. The new stuff is running out as you well know.

Can't wait till the next format format so I can buy it all again.

I'm assuming you're joking here. The collecting stops for me with the CD's. I'm much happier now with the material that's coming out than I was in 1978. If you were happier then, that's great. We have the best of both worlds. I'm too hard-headed to change my opinion and to impatient to try to change yours. Take care, my friend.

I struggle to find the difference between a bootleg CD and a CDR copy of such!

All my CDR's are identical soundwise to the CD they originated from.

No doubt, but CDRs degrade, unlike proper CDs. In a few years I know the CDrs I have (sold to me as originals) will be unplayable.

Is that right?

How is it then that I have all of the original sets of "There's Always Me" that are now unplayable - but my CDR copies of them I made as backups, play perfectly?

I struggle to find the difference between a bootleg CD and a CDR copy of such!

All my CDR's are identical soundwise to the CD they originated from.

No doubt, but CDRs degrade, unlike proper CDs. In a few years I know the CDrs I have (sold to me as originals) will be unplayable.

Is that right?

How is it then that I have all of the original sets of "There's Always Me" that are now unplayable - but my CDR copies of them I made as backups, play perfectly?

This was discussed on this MB a couple of years ago I think. Some of those sets suffer from CD rot. Another title affected by this is Fort Baxter's "Walk A Mile In My Shoes". I guess the bootleggers didn't use the best pressing plant in the business for these particular titles... Another explanation could be that the ink or the glue on these packages messed up the CDs! I think CD rot is a thing of the past. I doubt the new, shiny Madison releases will suffer the same fate for example. And it probably wasn't a common problem anyway. I have a coupled of hundred CDs, old and new, and I have never seen this thing in my life. All my CDs play perfectly.

Keith Richards, Jr.

... spot on, Keith. The bad boys just couldn't walk in to any

pressing plant asking if it was okay to have their cds pressed

by them. They had to take what was available to them... and

who could have predicted cd rot at the time? Some of my Bilkos,

and Baxters are destroyed, while others, from the same labels,

and from around the same time, play fine.

... sh*t happens. Dont blame the bad boys for that.

And... about making easy money by them... the profits were

used to BUY new material, for future releases. Anything wrong

with that? Sessions and soundboards dont grow on trees.

Engineers had to be paid. Flights to the US had a price tag...

taking the guys out, for a night in the town, cost money.

Endless phone bills, etc.

... And the customers ended up paying dirt cheap prices, that is,

if you had a good supplier. Extreme prices happened, and probably

still happen... dont point at the bad boys... point at your local

dealer, who was/ is making a lot more money than the other

guys.

I owe the bootleggers a big thanks , They cannot do wrong in my book except the big bad mp3 rippers with those beautiful 2 second pauses ouuccchhh.
We all need to realize that the tapes probably cost a fair whack for those who can get there hands on them, but yes im sure the dealers are the ones making the money on them, but hey they must make a little of course or where would we all get them from. In my case its a search for the best supplier and after locating several respected dealers im allways happy with all my purchases, and thats from london to the south coast, to sweden and russia with love! not forgetting the good old dutch connections too big fans!!
We All Owe the leggers some respect deny as you may but we do, other wise its back to reissue city from rca/bmg

ps anyone know the date of the photo from gi blues where ep is on top of the tank?

Ger
you are right there ive seen some boot cds on ebay go for very high prices only the other day i saw finding the way home went for 70 pounds unbelieveble amount of money i stay clear of ebay and try to buy from trusted sellers who would not rip the fans off. the problem is finding the sellers in the first place

Jess

I would rather have a cdr if it is better quality than "original" bootleg copied from same source. And if cd rot is a problem all you gotta do is copy to CDR every couple of years instead of holding on to an original CD that would be unplayable but at least serve as a good COASTER!!!

I couldn't imagine a collector's life without the imports.

However I would NEVER buy a black copy of anything that is legally available somewhere. If not - well, who can blame me when I get an according bootleg.

Ger Rijff wrote:

And... about making easy money by them... the profits were

used to BUY new material, for future releases. Anything wrong

with that? Sessions and soundboards dont grow on trees.

Engineers had to be paid. Flights to the US had a price tag...

taking the guys out, for a night in the town, cost money.

Endless phone bills, etc.

This is what I have tried to explain

So don't begrudge the effort required to save up for the 'Real Deal,' because in so doing you are quite literally investing in a future release.

Conversely, by encouraging indiscriminate copying, which involves posting links where titles can be downloaded for free, you are depriving all of us of future material for our collections.

Thank you to all who have posted on this topic. I would like to think that our discussion may have given some pause for thought on this matter, or at very least sought to explain the hostility aroused by their thoughtless and selfish actions. As ever, time will tell

Good thread! I have to add the importance of the original king(s) of the bootleg world that made RCA/BMG rethink of what quality releases of unreleased material should look and sound. And our own Ger almost single handed provided the LOOK that should have been on the official label and would have added many more true ARTWORKS not only for the "Elvis world" but a place among the best of POP/ROCK music art in general. Salud,cheers to you Mr. Tallhair and other(s)...

...and without the original boots we would probably never would
have heard a lot of the stuff....in that case you would not even
have a CD-R...

I am a big fan of the import/bootleg scene, and I agree that bootleggers seem to get a bad rap here and elsewhere. The quality labels deserve big respect - they bring us new material in quality packaging for a reasonable price.

Anyone who argues that free cdr copies/downloads are not harmful to the Elvis collecting hobby are just plain wrong.

Of course some bootleg cds are plain moneygrabbing, with crap artwork and crap sound, and these deserve no "respect"!!!

I like bootlegs for 4 reasons.

(1) The Sleeves designs are almost always really good. Look at "Shock,Rattle & Roll" or the "Jailhouse Rock Sessions".

(2) The humor. Look at the Dog Vomit release - I know that pi$$es some people off - oh well. I can take a joke.

(3) The material - bootleggers issued the full, un-edited goodies.

(4) They made RCA get off their asses and do something for once.

Some of my Bilkos,

and Baxters are destroyed...

I haven't bought "Walk A Mile In My Shoes" for this reason. I am waiting for Fort Baxter to release it again. "Just Pretend" also deserves an upgrade. Fort Baxter's Classic Series is the best thing since sliced bread!

Keith Richards, Jr.

Fort Baxter's Classic Series is the best thing since sliced bread!

I completely agree!

"Just Pretend" also deserves an upgrade.

Most of the original Fort Baxter CD's deserve the upgrade,not only a few of them. "JUST PRETEND" was slightly incomplete,i hope its new version will be complete. It would be great to own the new versions of "DESERT STORM" (this time with 'I Couldn't Live Without You' which was omitted originally from unknown reasons),"LEAN, MEAN AND KICKIN' BUTT","GOODBYE MEMPHIS" and "A HOT WINTER NIGHT IN DALLAS".
There are many fans who still don't own these CD's.

Most of the great Elvis releases these days come from the bootlegers. Without them, we would be without alot of great material! So thanks to all who give us such wonderful cds. Have to say, most of my favorite cds and the ones I play most are imports...theres such a wide variety of material its just incredible !!!

As the “he” in question, I guess that you were expecting a response. I will grant you, it is an interesting tactic that after you have lost an argument in one thread, you just start another with a misrepresentation of the opposing view.

The crucial point of mine that you missed in your summary, is the huge overreaction caused by the posting of the Pirate Bay link. How many people do you think actually chose to download the lossy torrent and thus cancelled their plans on buying the bootleg? How many people here do you think actually have a clue how to configure a Bit Torrent client in the first place?

Since it has been clearly demonstrated here that bootleggers ply their trade out of the goodness of their heart and are not interested in profit, it seems to me you have nothing to fear.

In the mean time, I will just sit back and enjoy the three complete, professionally mixed Springsteen holiday show soundboards that were circulated via download just before Christmas. They were released freely by collectors for the fans for nothing in return except the satisfaction of sharing. After that, I’ll take a look at the complete pro-shot DVD of the Springsteen Paris ’85 show. Again, circulated for free by a collector. You see, there is another way to circulate material that is not going to see the light of day on an official release.

Anyway, I’ll leave you to the mutual hug-a-bootleger frenzy. Given that I know where to find lossless copies of every bootleg within days release, it doesn’t really bother me if anyone posts a link or not.

Chris

Though art a seeder or a leecher!!! Happy New Year to all and to all goodfrickin morning time to sleep a little!!!

well i guess i will just have to keep those bad torrent links to myself. i will have a happy new year with all this loverly free music.happy new year all.

with all this loverly free music

hey friend, could you please use the word "wee" a bit more often?

I owe the bootleggers a big thanks , They cannot do wrong in my book except the big bad mp3 rippers with those beautiful 2 second pauses ouuccchhh.
We all need to realize that the tapes probably cost a fair whack for those who can get there hands on them, but yes im sure the dealers are the ones making the money on them, but hey they must make a little of course or where would we all get them from. In my case its a search for the best supplier and after locating several respected dealers im allways happy with all my purchases, and thats from london to the south coast, to sweden and russia with love! not forgetting the good old dutch connections too big fans!!
We All Owe the leggers some respect deny as you may but we do, other wise its back to reissue city from rca/bmg

ps anyone know the date of the photo from gi blues where ep is on top of the tank?

you are right mate in every word you say .- right on daz.



ill have to check out the date of when the photo wwas taken from gi blues .that you need and let u know accordingly .-

ChrisM wrote:

As the “he” in question, I guess that you were expecting a response.

Well, no actually, since the points I was making were frankly directed at a wider audience.

How many people do you think actually chose to download the lossy torrent and thus cancelled their plans on buying the bootleg? How many people here do you think actually have a clue how to configure a Bit Torrent client in the first place?

I have no wish to speculate and must again emphasise that I am looking at the bigger picture. Once copies are made in multiple formats, they can be circulated further and who knows where it stops? The main point is that ANY copying potentially has the ability to reduce both a) incentive and b) funds available to those concerned to bring us further releases. This is a fundamental truth and it would do all of us a favour if you could accept this rather than appear to condone it by making exceptions.

Since it has been clearly demonstrated here that bootleggers ply their trade out of the goodness of their heart and are not interested in profit, it seems to me you have nothing to fear.

This is patent nonsense for the reasons previously stated. Furthermore as an attempt at humour, I doubt many will find it funny as this is a serious issue.

Given that I know where to find lossless copies of every bootleg within days release, it doesn’t really bother me if anyone posts a link or not.

This last comment is particularly illuminating, as it perfectly illustrates the difference between us. You are looking at this topic on a purely selfish individual basis, whilst I am concerned about the negative effect a few like you can have on our mutual hobby.

As I have stated before, I am not interested in trading petty insults but simply bringing the points raised here to a wider audience.