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Bootleggers Deserve Our Respect As Well....

Wed Dec 27, 2006 7:42 pm

There may be some who have happened upon my thoughts on this matter in recent threads, but as there were not many who posted in support, I feel this subject perhaps deserves discussion in its own thread.

First of all, I must make clear I am not a bootlegger, nor do I know any personally.

I am however, a very enthusiastic fan for Elvis' live shows, which by default means I am a supporter of bootleg titles as well as the excellent FTD label.

Most fans on this site respect that copying and making available FTD titles will affect profitability and bring about the early demise of this label. However, some of these same fans seem to adopt a different attitude towards bootleg titles, apparently surmizing that as they're illegal, so what? Who cares about their 'grubby' business?

One fan who replied to me even referred to them as 'greedy' and making 'easy money' in their illegal trade. It took me to point out that as their activities are indeed ILLEGAL, they are taking considerable risks to bring us the material we want in our collections. Hardly EASY money when you run the risk of a heavy fine, not to mention the threat of a prison sentence hanging over your head.

His argument then turned to; 'Well it's only small scale, so what?' What he had failed to realise here was that Import sales themselves are only small scale and losing a few potential customers for this material can be a determining factor in:

a) Being worthwhile for a bootlegger to consider a further future release
b) Being able to acquire (i.e. purchase at an economic price) further new and thus rare material from individuals who own it in their private collections. It seemed to escape him that the seller might set the price and that he might not NEED to offload it unless his price was met.

I therefore put it to you that any copying POTENTIALLY has the ability to deny us access to further new and rare material for future Import releases. So if you decide to make copies for friends or conduct trades, then bear this in mind.

In the end however, I concede that this is small scale. But to create a site or post a link for this material is short sighted and downright irresponsible and which in the end threatens our hobby.

Over to you
Last edited by Guest on Wed Dec 27, 2006 8:26 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Re: Bootleggers Deserve Our Respect As Well....

Wed Dec 27, 2006 8:14 pm

Mike S wrote:I am a very enthusiastic fan for Elvis' live shows, which by default means I am a supporter of bootleg titles as well as the excellent FTD label.

Ditto.

As I have said many times before, I am a collector of Elvis concerts, recording sessions and rehearsals. I will take them in any way they become available. I'm sorry that the flute player does not get paid when I buy a bootleg recording. However, that has absolutely no bearing on whether or not I'll buy the latest release. I support the bootleggers 100% by not obtaining CDR's, but the real deal.

I'm a survivor of the 1980's and I can tell you that we've never had it so good. However, I don't want to get started on that speech again.

Bring 'em on Madison, Fort Baxter, Straight Arrow and anyone else who has something worthwhile. Many of us are waiting for that next release.

Wed Dec 27, 2006 8:40 pm

Right on, Mike! Your post sums up my feelings 100%.

Long live the bootleggers!

And may all these cheap CD-R copies rot in hell! :wink:

Keith Richards, Jr.

Wed Dec 27, 2006 8:43 pm

i beleive we owe a lot to the bootlegers has now we have the excellent ftd collecters label that might not of hapend if there were not bootlegs in the first place .in the future
the only boots worth collecting will be soundboards has ftd is releasing almost full sessions in excellent sound.. Thanks to the importers for opening our eyes in the first place and keep them coming .

jess

Wed Dec 27, 2006 9:37 pm

Rob wrote: I'm a survivor of the 1980's and I can tell you that we've never had it so good.

********************************

Your message is a little misleading since this is a thread about the bootlegger and not the shortage of good RCA product.
Not coincidently when there was a shortage of good RCA material from 1978 to 1988, this was the golden age of Elvis bootleg albums.
So much great stuff came out in this period i never even noticed that RCA dropped the ball.

Furthermore respect has to be given to the bootlegger because they present the material unedited just the way I like it.

Wed Dec 27, 2006 9:50 pm

ekenee wrote:Rob wrote: I'm a survivor of the 1980's and I can tell you that we've never had it so good.

********************************

Your message is a little misleading since this is a thread about the bootlegger and not the shortage of good RCA product.
Not coincidently when there was a shortage of good RCA material from 1978 to 1988, this was the golden age of Elvis bootleg albums.
So much great stuff came out in this period i never even noticed that RCA dropped the ball.

Not misleading at all.
It was nothing then like it is now. From 1978 to 1988, I had no soundboard shows (for example). I didn't even know what they were. Sure, we had bootlegs in plenty. But it does not compare to current day at at all.

Wed Dec 27, 2006 10:20 pm

Long live the bootleggers! :smt038

Wed Dec 27, 2006 10:39 pm

Keith Richards, Jr. wrote:Right on, Mike! Your post sums up my feelings 100%.

Long live the bootleggers!

And may all these cheap CD-R copies rot in hell! :wink:

Keith Richards, Jr.


I struggle to find the difference between a bootleg CD and a CDR copy of such!

All my CDR's are identical soundwise to the CD they originated from.

Wed Dec 27, 2006 10:54 pm

i do agree with most of what you say Mike S but i remember here on this board about 2 / 3 years ago everyone was trading cdrs of bootlegs come to think of it any elvis cd but all of a sudden its taboo.i remember the night hawk gave away 100s of cdrs on this board and everyone loved him for it so can you or someone tell me what the big change is ?.you can not get a trade for love nor money anymore except the odd dvd so why is dvdrs ok to trade ?.

Wed Dec 27, 2006 11:07 pm

hey rocknroller
i will trade cds with you :lol: :lol: i cant get trades toooooooooo

Thu Dec 28, 2006 12:29 am

cheers jimbo i can allways count on you mate. :wink:

Bootleggers Deserve Our Respect Too...

Thu Dec 28, 2006 12:30 am

KiwiAlan wrote:
All my CDR's are identical soundwise to the CD they originated from.

With respect this is irrelevant to the points raised in this thread.

rocknroller wrote:
i do agree with most of what you say Mike S

Of all the replies received (so far) yours is the most encouraging, as it was your link that sparked this current debate. Please note that we are not discussing recent changes of policy, but the fundamental truth that indiscriminate copying will INEVITABLY lead to fewer releases of new material.

If you and others can understand this and act accordingly, you will be doing yourself and all of us a huge service.

Thu Dec 28, 2006 12:32 am

ok my friend i take your point. :)

Thu Dec 28, 2006 2:35 am

I like the bootleg albums that is out. There is countless of albums out there.
Hey, Rob need to let you know if you have a real bootleg cd or CD-R it is guilty either way. Elvis is owned by EPE and all audio is on RCA. So any music of Elvis that is not on RCA except for the Louisanna Hayride years you can be put in jail for it because you have it or sale it. So any CD that is not licensed by EPE and RCA is illegal by US laws. I have a friend who got all of his CDs consficated and they were all real import bootleg cds. So Real or not you still doing something wrong.
But I do support them because they are cheaper than the FTD cds. I like the FTD company but they are too high on the cds. They just need to release them just like the other cds. Instead of those CDs being 30 to 50 dollars they should be around 20 dollars.

Thu Dec 28, 2006 2:40 am

Just explain one thing to me, what are the difference between a bootleg cd and an import cd:?:

Thu Dec 28, 2006 2:55 am

elvislennon wrote:I like the FTD company but they are too high on the cds. They just need to release them just like the other cds. Instead of those CDs being 30 to 50 dollars they should be around 20 dollars.

FTD are an official leg of BMG, going directly head to head against the bootleggers - but FTD are using the original tapes (which of course they have in their vaults). That's why they are higher priced CD's than regular CD's as they are aimed at the collector, and not the casual fan!

BMG (FTD) know what fans are paying for bootlegs, so why shouldn't they charge the same for FTD's?

Thu Dec 28, 2006 2:57 am

elvislennon wrote:Hey, Rob need to let you know if you have a real bootleg cd or CD-R it is guilty either way. Elvis is owned by EPE and all audio is on RCA. So any music of Elvis that is not on RCA except for the Louisanna Hayride years you can be put in jail for it because you have it or sale it. So any CD that is not licensed by EPE and RCA is illegal by US laws.

I know all of that. I'm typing this message from San Quentin. Gotta run, time for roll call.
Last edited by Rob on Thu Dec 28, 2006 3:24 am, edited 1 time in total.

Thu Dec 28, 2006 3:04 am

Well Rob, was it because of a bootleg or an import then :?: I mean why you`r typing you`r message from that aweful place :?

Thu Dec 28, 2006 4:38 am

Image

Thu Dec 28, 2006 8:57 am

I agree 100 percent with the intent of the post. Bootleggers have done a great service not only for Elvis and his fans but for dozens of other artists and their fans as well. The bootleggers were the ones that established the fact that there was a market for stuff like alternate takes. RCA famously in the late 1970s or early 1980s turned down a trove of lost Elvis alternates because they believed Elvis' fans wouldn't be interested in stuff like that.

The industry hysterics tried to paint the bootleggers as heartless profiteers but, as it turned out, even in the golden age of bootlegging, there wasn't a whole lot of money to be made. The bootleggers were mostly dedicated fans releasing what RCA and the other major labels had no intent of releasing.

Even today with FTD that's the case. As was pointed out previously, BMG has no intention of releasing everything. Fans want everything. So if bootleggers have some performance from 1976 that wouldn't ever be on BMG's docket, who is to begrudge the bootleggers from making a small profit pleasing the fans with just such a release?

Thu Dec 28, 2006 12:34 pm

KiwiAlan wrote:
Keith Richards, Jr. wrote:Right on, Mike! Your post sums up my feelings 100%.

Long live the bootleggers!

And may all these cheap CD-R copies rot in hell! :wink:

Keith Richards, Jr.


I struggle to find the difference between a bootleg CD and a CDR copy of such!

All my CDR's are identical soundwise to the CD they originated from.


No doubt, but CDRs degrade, unlike proper CDs. In a few years I know the CDrs I have (sold to me as originals) will be unplayable.

Thu Dec 28, 2006 1:26 pm

elvislennon wrote:Elvis is owned by EPE and all audio is on RCA. So any music of Elvis that is not on RCA except for the Louisanna Hayride years you can be put in jail for it because you have it or sale it. So any CD that is not licensed by EPE and RCA is illegal by US laws. I have a friend who got all of his CDs consficated and they were all real import bootleg cds. So Real or not you still doing something wrong.


So you're saying that it's not only illegal to sell bootlegs, but it's also illegal to buy them?? That can't be right, can it...

Thu Dec 28, 2006 1:38 pm

If we have indeed never had it so good, then that would be due to the FTD label today. The bootleg scene is very dull and boring now.

But ten years ago it was at its peak. There was a ton of new and revolutionary material coming out constantly on labels such as the DAE digipacks and the There's Always Me sets. In 1996 we had a new top-notch title coming out almost every week. You really had to be there to appreciate it. In fact, lots of us couldn't keep up! The lame reissues and compilations being put out by bootleggers today just can't compare.

Thu Dec 28, 2006 1:48 pm

elvisa wrote:Well Rob, was it because of a bootleg or an import then :?: I mean why you`r typing you`r message from that aweful place :?

Because I killed a man for sending me a CDR.
They're sliding my bread and water under the door now. Gotta run.

Thu Dec 28, 2006 1:50 pm

Rob wrote:
elvisa wrote:Well Rob, was it because of a bootleg or an import then :?: I mean why you`r typing you`r message from that aweful place :?

Because I killed a man for sending me a CDR.
They're sliding my bread and water under the door now. Gotta run.


Watch yourself in the showers !