All posts with more than 3000 Hits, prior to 2008

Return To Chaos, 9/27/74

Fri Dec 01, 2006 12:39 am

Having finally forced myself to give this infamous gig a listen via the 2006 Straight Arrow label "import" CD, a few things are undeniable:

- the people behind Straight Arrow did a GREAT job with the packaging, from the photos to the somewhat apologetic notes

- Elvis is clearly "on" some substance ... he's obviously impaired, in both speech and vocals ... the 9/27 photos show a man with his eyes barely half-open!

- the crowd loves him!

-----

That said, it's also clear that without the visual record, no sweeping "reassessments" can be made that might override the detailed memories of those who were there that night.

The superb review on the FECC site by Mike Sanders sums up this quandry quite well: "Could this show be the one his band remember to have been a total disaster? I still think it’s possible as this record is taken from an audience recorded source and therefore only a part of the whole picture that evening. Elvis’ vocal performance is for the main part very poor and if he was indeed bloated and stumbling around the stage, seemingly oblivious and completely unguarded in his comments (i.e. appearing to be out of control), his band, witnessing this up close and well aware of his limitations, may well have formed the impression it was a chaotic performance."

The entire review is worth your time: Mike Sanders - Chaos In College Park

Bear in mind, the people on the tape seemingly loved the show, but a dear friend who saw Elvis' tragic Omaha performance on June 19, 1977 maintains to this day that everything about that evening was MAGNIFICENT. We all know better.

Elvis had the charisma of a hundred stars but, sadly, it wasn't enough to save him.
Last edited by drjohncarpenter on Fri Dec 01, 2006 12:43 am, edited 1 time in total.

Fri Dec 01, 2006 12:41 am

I like that last line you wrote Doc! Or rather agree with it..sadly.

Fri Dec 01, 2006 1:20 am

I feel that his charisma actually was enough - and saved him a couple of times. As far as I know the audience never did "boo" him or something like that.

If we sit here and watch his shows on DVD 30 years later and don't like it - it doesn't mean that Elvis didn't do the job back then.
If the audience were happy that night Elvis (and his charisma) did the job - in my opinion.

Fri Dec 01, 2006 1:32 am

Xaykev wrote:If the audience were happy that night Elvis (and his charisma) did the job - in my opinion.

And therein is the tragedy -- it didn't matter what was the reality, just the perception.

It's no wonder he lost himself, and we lost him, so young, so long ago.

Fri Dec 01, 2006 2:28 am

drjohncarpenter wrote:
Xaykev wrote:If the audience were happy that night Elvis (and his charisma) did the job - in my opinion.

And therein is the tragedy -- it didn't matter what was the reality, just the perception.

It's no wonder he lost himself, and we lost him, so young, so long ago.


AMEN! I've been saying this for years.

Fri Dec 01, 2006 2:44 am

Deke Rivers II wrote:AMEN! I've been saying this for years.

Well, bless you, my son. You are wise beyond your years.

Fri Dec 01, 2006 2:44 am

drjohncarpenter wrote:
Xaykev wrote:If the audience were happy that night Elvis (and his charisma) did the job - in my opinion.

And therein is the tragedy -- it didn't matter what was the reality, just the perception.

It's no wonder he lost himself, and we lost him, so young, so long ago.


Oh my. You are so perceptive and intelligent - you are like the god of Rock n Roll scholars DJC. Can't believe I ever doubted you. You are awesome and infallible.

Fri Dec 01, 2006 3:43 am

If this is all true and it was a disaster, then most of his post 1973 shows were disasters.

I just recieved mine 4 days ago and I have heard it twice now and it seems like a normal average show for 1974. It has some nice performances and he rushes the oldies. Ok, not much different than other shows.

The only chaotic thing about it was he talked too much at the start of the show, but that was because, as he said, the weird echo on stage was driving him crazy. It took about 10 minutes it seemed before that was corrected.

If we get a soundboard maybe more can be discovered, but i doubt it.



Notice how DJC really didn't review the show, but rather gave a link to someone else's review.

DJC try this. Listen to the show. Then make some comments about the show, and not what the band members said happened before the show.

I am sure other stars in the sixies were high on street drugs when they recorded some of their classic hits, so are we to dismiss them as garbage because of what was going on behind the scenes.

Fri Dec 01, 2006 3:45 am

I have listened to this show MORE than any other bootleg CD(of late) and ultimately its a fascinating concert , because you hear Elvis in such multi fascets! Generally i reckon i keep listening to it so much because the overall experience is positive and as the doc mentioned THE FANS were absolutely going nuts throughout-yet Elvis seems pretty diplomatic in dealing with all the screaming fans and requests and i thoroughly enjoy all the singing(if not ALL the excessive talking and stuffing around) pity theirs no video as without this one is left assuming he LOOKED terrible, but sounded better than he looked, certainly(to my ears) he's NOT that slurred-i.e. i can understand his speech :roll:
Glad you liked the packaging Doc! :roll:

Fri Dec 01, 2006 3:49 am

ekenee wrote:DJC try this. Listen to the show. Then make some comments about the show, and not what the band members said happened before the show.



Hey man, don't knock the Doc!!

You know he is always right.

Every show from mid 1973 onwards was rubbish.

All us regular fans who like and appreciate these recordings are mere fools you know.

We must be grateful for Doc's timely and insightful review.

Fri Dec 01, 2006 5:12 am

The Doc's insight tells more about him than about Elvis.

What strikes me about this release and the cover is that it looks like the cover of an issue of 'the Enquirer', with matching headline.

"Chaos in College Park" is pure tabloid sensationalism which detracts from the show.

It bet if someone found out that Elvis was on uppers during the 1968 special some bootleg would come along and re-title it,

"Chaos in Burbank". THen I suppose everyone would reevaluate it.

The other thread about this release basically showing that the myth of the chaos was just that, a myth. Elvis was living a life filled with chaos thru those last 3-4 years, but he was able to put on a good show most of the time, and put his chaos on hold for that 75 minutes while he was on stage.

Fri Dec 01, 2006 5:29 am

on the 1974 fall tour shows which one is the worst show and which one is the best? e was on downers through most of this tour i think.
he was grouchy too. it seemed like. is ths your take on most of these shows too?

Fri Dec 01, 2006 6:27 am

most people reckon south bend 30.9.74 was best show, followed by Indy 5.10.74 Evening and worst show was 5.10.74 Afternoon maybe followed by REAL detroit 29.9.74(remembering that existing audio was incorrectly listed and is from 4th Oct 74) quite a few others fit into 'mediocre' catagory's :cry:

Fri Dec 01, 2006 8:28 am

Ah John Boy.....you had to start another thread of your own.....so predictable......this horse has been flogged, you are wrong, live with it, less you continue your embarrassing pontifications.

The so-called 'detailed memories' of those who were there have been utterly debunked (in fact, having re-read the 'quote' from Tony Brown in the 'Final Years' book, Tony is said to be part of Elvis' backup band for this gig.....WRONG.....maybe he is confusing this date with Kansas City, April 21, 1976)

As for the lack of a 'visual recording', what do you call the photos you looked at, (with your eyes, I'm guessing?) included in the liner notes?????

Just imagine the dressing down some other poor bastard would have recieved had they started such a moronic thread.

Time to call the NURSE, 'Doctor', and have her increase you dose.

NURSE!!!!!!!!

Re: Return To Chaos, 9/27/74

Fri Dec 01, 2006 9:05 am

drjohncarpenter wrote:......but a dear friend.......


You have a friend??? (bear in mind, your hand does not count) :wink:

NURSE!!!!!!!!!!!


This message will self destruct (or be deleted by 'Admin.'), in......no time at all.

Fri Dec 01, 2006 9:47 am

The title Chaos in College Park is pure exaggeration.....it wasn´t that bad.

Fri Dec 01, 2006 11:56 am

I also did a comparison/review between the two concerts at College Park, Sept 27 and 28th.

The article also features the wonderful review from ROB here at FECC!

Go here for the EIN Chaos review.
I'm not a great fan of audience recordings, unlike YDKM, but his one is certainly worth owning.

Mike's review is excellent, but I don't think anyone can be sure about his statement - "this extended version did not go down well with someone close to the tape recorder who pronounces the performance to be terrible."
However many times you listen to this comment you cannot actually make out whether it is about Elvis, his seat, the beer, the sound (which Elvis says is terrible) or the woman's hair style in front of him.
The rest of the crowd's response is explosive - so would he really say "terrible" about the perfomance? I don't think we can be so certain.


Cheers
Piers

Fri Dec 01, 2006 12:36 pm

PiersEIN wrote:Mike's review is excellent, but I don't think anyone can be sure about his statement - "this extended version did not go down well with someone close to the tape recorder who pronounces the performance to be terrible."
However many times you listen to this comment you cannot actually make out whether it is about Elvis, his seat, the beer, the sound (which Elvis says is terrible) or the woman's hair style in front of him.
The rest of the crowd's response is explosive - so would he really say "terrible" about the perfomance? I don't think we can be so certain.


Cheers
Piers


It is comments like this in the review that stop it being an excellent review IMO. It's like the reviewer felt obliged to rubbish the show to an extent (perhaps because of the myths created by mistaken recollections) rather than simply appraise the CD. I worked for ages on the so called "terrible" dialogue. No way you can ascertain anything from the comments. But there is definitelt a debate about seating going on around the taper!!

We have all seen how Saint John embarassed himself continually on the original Chaos thread. I am surprised he even had the nerve to start a new thread on the subject 8 weeks after the Cd was released, to embarass himself further. I guess you can't teach an old Doc new tricks :wink:

Fri Dec 01, 2006 2:04 pm

BIGREDG wrote: I guess you can't teach an old Doc new tricks :wink:


I like it. :lol:

Fri Dec 01, 2006 2:19 pm

PiersEIN wrote:I also did a comparison/review between the two concerts at College Park, Sept 27 and 28th.

The article also features the wonderful review from ROB here at FECC!

Go here for the EIN Chaos review.
I'm not a great fan of audience recordings, unlike YDKM, but his one is certainly worth owning.

Mike's review is excellent, but I don't think anyone can be sure about his statement - "this extended version did not go down well with someone close to the tape recorder who pronounces the performance to be terrible."
However many times you listen to this comment you cannot actually make out whether it is about Elvis, his seat, the beer, the sound (which Elvis says is terrible) or the woman's hair style in front of him.
The rest of the crowd's response is explosive - so would he really say "terrible" about the perfomance? I don't think we can be so certain.


Cheers
Piers


As usual, Piers, your review (apart from being most welcome), was spot on......

Sad People!

Fri Dec 01, 2006 2:19 pm

ritchie valens wrote:e was on downers through most of this tour i think.

No, Elvis was more likely affected by too many stimulants, thus the rampant dialogues throughout this and many other shows of the period.

And now, to address one member of the brainless contingent:

Larry Dickman wrote:you had to start another thread of your own ...

IIRC, I was lambasted for not making comment about this disc. So I'm actually honoring the wishes of many in posting my observations regarding this show. For the perceptive, they are there, in my first entry.

Larry Dickman wrote:The so-called 'detailed memories' of those who were there have been utterly debunked ...

Actually, no, they have not.

Larry Dickman wrote:As for the lack of a 'visual recording', what do you call the photos you looked at, (with your eyes, I'm guessing?) included in the liner notes?

As noted -- Elvis looks totally wasted in each and every image. But it's simply not enough for an intelligent person to draw sweeping new conclusions about this date.

Larry, truth be told, your hysterical postings make you appear even stupider than you might actually be in real life. If that's your goal, how very sad indeed.

---

For the few valid, thoughtful replies on this topic, I thank you.

Re: Sad People!

Fri Dec 01, 2006 2:48 pm

drjohncarpenter wrote:
Larry Dickman wrote:you had to start another thread of your own ...

IIRC, I was lambasted for not making comment about this disc. So I'm actually honoring the wishes of many in posting my observations regarding this show. For the perceptive, they are there, in my first entry.
How.....honorable.

Larry Dickman wrote:The so-called 'detailed memories' of those who were there have been utterly debunked ...

Actually, no, they have not.
Maybe you need to re-read the original thread.

Larry Dickman wrote:As for the lack of a 'visual recording', what do you call the photos you looked at, (with your eyes, I'm guessing?) included in the liner notes?

As noted -- Elvis looks totally wasted in each and every image. But it's simply not enough for an intelligent person to draw sweeping new conclusions about this date.
So, there is indeed a visual recording....nice work, Sherlock.

Larry, truth be told, your hysterical postings make you appear even stupider than you might actually be in real life. If that's your goal, how very sad indeed.
No prizes for second, John Boy.---

For the few valid, thoughtful replies on this topic, I thank you.
Must be hard mixing with the morons, day in, day out.....but I'm sure a few on this MB will share your pain.


NURSE!!!!!!!!!

Re: Sad People!

Fri Dec 01, 2006 3:39 pm

drjohncarpenter wrote:
Larry Dickman wrote:The so-called 'detailed memories' of those who were there have been utterly debunked ...

Actually, no, they have not.


Actually for the most part they have.

Which specific damning memories still stand untarnished??

Fri Dec 01, 2006 6:44 pm

We have heard horror stories about this show for years and it is by far a show that I will not listen to on a regular basis. However, I have heard worse shows during the three years following (especially the one on the next night). As mentioned, we only have the audio to go by, but based on that, the show is tolerable (and that's being kind).

As Doc mentioned, the crowd loved the show. I don't want to keep beating a dead horse, but when I saw Elvis in Louisville on May 21, 1977, I heard many a comment on how great the show was and how good he looked. Compared to Omaha four weeks later, they were right. Don't tell the Omaha crowd that though because they loved their show as well.

It is so easy to sit back and criticize his shows and appearance now because of the countless number of pictures and concerts available on CD. It is quite a different story though when the man is on stage right in front of you. That's why having audio only, decades later is damaging. We can pick it to death. Listening to something over and over can give one a chance to find things that would never be noticed by seeing the show one time.

We can all give opinions about the first College Park show, but it is in no way as bad as it has been made out to be for many years. The show the following night was much worse and I refuse to listen to it again.

Fortunately, when we get an import such as Chaos In College Park, we can always put in a little something from June 27, 1968 or Vegas '69 to lift our spirits.

Fri Dec 01, 2006 7:15 pm

Rob wrote:We have heard horror stories about this show for years and it is by far a show that I will not listen to on a regular basis. However, I have heard worse shows during the three years following (especially the one on the next night). As mentioned, we only have the audio to go by, but based on that, the show is tolerable (and that's being kind).

As Doc mentioned, the crowd loved the show. I don't want to keep beating a dead horse, but when I saw Elvis in Louisville on May 21, 1977, I heard many a comment on how great the show was and how good he looked. Compared to Omaha four weeks later, they were right. Don't tell the Omaha crowd that though because they loved their show as well.

It is so easy to sit back and criticize his shows and appearance now because of the countless number of pictures and concerts available on CD. It is quite a different story though when the man is on stage right in front of you. That's why having audio only, decades later is damaging. We can pick it to death. Listening to something over and over can give one a chance to find things that would never be noticed by seeing the show one time.

We can all give opinions about the first College Park show, but it is in no way as bad as it has been made out to be for many years. The show the following night was much worse and I refuse to listen to it again.

Fortunately, when we get an import such as Chaos In College Park, we can always put in a little something from June 27, 1968 or Vegas '69 to lift our spirits.


That my friend, was an excellent and fair post!