All posts with more than 3000 Hits, prior to 2008

kiss/ elvis

Thu Nov 16, 2006 9:07 pm

... Joe/ Quote : 'understanding human nature is not your bag' <

... understanding raving lunies, like you, Joe, neither.

Fri Nov 17, 2006 12:24 am

jak wrote:
sid wrote:What are you talking about????????


The only reason Elvis recorded in the jungle room was that he was to lazy to go into the studio.RCA had to bring their equipment to him to try and get material out of Elvis.
Jak


i think it´s accurate.
this reason was often enough confirmed.

Fri Nov 17, 2006 12:34 am

jak wrote:
sid wrote:Thanks Ger, I respect what you have to say and I shall stand corrected..............I apologise Jak.
It happens to be one of my favourites that's all :oops:


Sid
No apology needed.This is a great place to learn info.
Jak


Reading back through the posts leading up to this one tonight, I feel thoroughly ashamed Jak, you say they was no need to apologise........but my apolgy still stands.

I am not all clued up on everything Elvis did and in future I shall watch, listen and learn :wink:

Fri Nov 17, 2006 12:42 am

Keith Richards, Jr. wrote:
Joe Car wrote:He depended way to much on that talentless manager of his, that's why, a gifted conman who could care less about his client's artistic credibility, and who wanted total control.


That ain't true, man. In the 50's Elvis ran the show in the studio. He decided what to record and what to release. Tom Parker let his boy decide just about everything, he didn't want total control at all. Parker's role was to promote the hell out of the stuff Elvis recorded.

Again, Elvis was the boss. And if Elvis wanted something from RCA, Colonel Parker made sure he got it. Parker was a brilliant manager in the early days. He took care of his boy. And this relationship worked very well until Elvis became disinterested with his career and started to take the easy way out. Elvis probably needed some new friends and advisors, to boost his passion for recording and making albums again. But that wasn't Parker's role and so we shouldn't blame him for that. Parker didn't stop him from recording good songs.

I think there was a genuine affection between Elvis and Parker in the early days. Parker was not The Devil.

Keith Richards, Jr.


I should have been more clear, I'm talking primarily about the seventies.

Re: kiss/ elvis

Fri Nov 17, 2006 12:47 am

Tallhair AKA Ger Rijff wrote:... Joe/ Quote : 'understanding human nature is not your bag' <

... understanding raving lunies, like you, Joe, neither.


You're really a class guy!

Fri Nov 17, 2006 1:15 am

... But he didn't. Manager or no manager! He just didnt have an

artistic view on his carreer... and he lacked b*lls.

Well said Ger.

Fri Nov 17, 2006 1:21 am

midnightx wrote:
... But he didn't. Manager or no manager! He just didnt have an

artistic view on his carreer... and he lacked b*lls.

Well said Ger.


To quote Gomer Pyle, "surprise, surprise."

Sun Nov 19, 2006 1:54 pm

3577 wrote:The KISS archives is [sic] filled with unreleased material.

Oh yeah, it's full of something all right.

Sun Nov 19, 2006 2:35 pm

drjohncarpenter wrote:
3577 wrote:The KISS archives is [sic] filled with unreleased material.

Oh yeah, it's full of something all right.

lol :D i think you mean " brown Out Takes"

Sun Nov 19, 2006 4:46 pm

jak wrote: The only reason Elvis recorded in the jungle room was that he was to lazy to go into the studio.RCA had to bring their equipment to him to try and get material out of Elvis. Jak


I am not sure the word lazy explains why Elvis didn't go into the recording studio. Anyone who worked as hard as Elvis did cannot be described as lazy. Besides - what is harder work - a gruelling concert tour or a few days visit to the studio?

Saying Elvis did not have balls is not how I would explain his problem. Anyone who can walk out in front of millions of people live via satellite - sober - has to have balls. On top of which he was the first solo artist ever to do so - that must have been scary - yet he went through with it. Tons of other examples ofcourse - his first tv appearance springs to mind.

No - the reason Elvis didn't face up or do certain things was because he was hopelessly gripped in addiction. There is no cure for the recognized illness of addiction and only a small percentage of addicts do recover on a daily basis. Elvis' addiction was facilitated by everyone around him - he had less chance than anyone in history of seeing his problem.

Am I here to defend my hero - yes I am.

Paradoxially an addict has tremendous will power - more so than most people. Their problem is the misuse of will power.

Sun Nov 19, 2006 5:03 pm

drjohncarpenter wrote:
3577 wrote:The KISS archives is [sic] filled with unreleased material.

Oh yeah, it's full of something all right.


I took a long time for a useless repsonse, Doccie-Boy.

Please, don't reply to something, you dont know . Stick to youre pathetic world.


NURSE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Mon Nov 20, 2006 1:56 am

Ger Rijff is totally correct.

Elvis was a very insular man. He seemed to live for the moment. While he strived hard to attain perfection on many cuts, particularly his early records, this was probably done more because he had something to prove to himself and the world, not because he was trying to create timeless records that would survive the ages. Listen to Elvis describing his Sun cuts in a 1970 interview: "Man, they sound funny." It's a totally honest comment from him, and, I think, a reflection of how he saw himself as an artist and person. Elvis had an astonishingly small ego in a certain sense: I don't think he saw himself as an historical figure. He didn't plan for the future, either. He had no personal investments of any kind and didn't ask any questions provided he had the money he needed when he needed it. Remember the 1973 back catalogue deal? According to Jerry Schilling, Elvis was over the moon about it. He'd netted himself a large pile of cash -- true monetary value of his catalogue, and history itself, be damned. That he didn't take greater control of his legacy was probably because he was "just an entertainer" in his own eyes. Even in a relatively unremarkable piece of footage where Elvis chats casually with his backing singers before going on stage in TTWII (cut footage; see YouTube), he drops out a revealing comment: he tells them that his jumpsuit is one of Bill Belew's latest and that Bill just "does something different every time." Elvis had very little input and wore whatever came his way. In "Careless Love", Binder tells how Elvis instantly OK-ed all his ideas for the "Guitar Man" theme, even though Binder was expecting to hear questions and quibbles.

Don't get mad, Joe. History is what it is. Just as Elvis was who he was. We shouldn't seek to deny it, even if it's rarely what we want or expect. It's shocking and upsetting that Elvis didn't fight and strive for more standards and more things in his life, but a person is like a house of cards: remove one part and the whole thing falls down. His personality, like all ours, had been shaped from birth, and that had positive attributes, and negative ones. But they all went together to make Elvis Elvis. To quote Shakespeare: "He was a man, take him for all in all. I shall not look upon his like again."
Last edited by Cryogenic on Mon Nov 20, 2006 2:51 am, edited 1 time in total.

Mon Nov 20, 2006 2:33 am

Cryogenic wrote: Listen to Elvis describing his Sun cuts in the MSG 1972 interview: "Man, they sound funny."
He said it in 1970 for Rodeo press conference...

Mon Nov 20, 2006 2:51 am

JLGB wrote:
Cryogenic wrote: Listen to Elvis describing his Sun cuts in the MSG 1972 interview: "Man, they sound funny."
He said it in 1970 for Rodeo press conference...


Corrected!

KISS/Elvis

Mon Nov 20, 2006 3:10 am

Ok..being a HUGE Kiss and and an Elvis fan on top of that, I can answer some questions on the KISS side of this discussion.
KISS DID NOT own ANY of these shows that were used in new 3 DVD set. All most all the footage has been around for at least 20 years in the bootleg market. They (KISS) over the years stole or extorted the footage back from the fans. KISS did not pay to have these shows filmed. All of the footage was used from the different locations in house closed circuit feeds. Most places filmed the shows and them offered them up to the band for sale after the show. Most declined and were never seen again. But these managed to hang on somehow over the years and here they are. So, why did it take so long for KISS to release this stuff. Easy, they never had it. Now Paul & Gene's greed are getting to them and see the chance to make some bucks.
Being a huge bootleg freak for KISS, I had EVERYTHING on the DVD's except for like 10 minutes of footage.

Mon Nov 20, 2006 3:40 am

3577 wrote:
drjohncarpenter wrote:
3577 wrote:The KISS archives is [sic] filled with unreleased material.

Oh yeah, it's full of something all right.

I took a long time for a useless repsonse, Doccie-Boy.

It's nice to read you finally admit your replies are useless.

Everyone else already knows!

Bwaah-haa-haa!

Mon Nov 20, 2006 4:28 am

Cryogenic wrote:Ger Rijff is totally correct.

Elvis was a very insular man. He seemed to live for the moment. While he strived hard to attain perfection on many cuts, particularly his early records, this was probably done more because he had something to prove to himself and the world, not because he was trying to create timeless records that would survive the ages. Listen to Elvis describing his Sun cuts in a 1970 interview: "Man, they sound funny." It's a totally honest comment from him, and, I think, a reflection of how he saw himself as an artist and person. Elvis had an astonishingly small ego in a certain sense: I don't think he saw himself as an historical figure. He didn't plan for the future, either. He had no personal investments of any kind and didn't ask any questions provided he had the money he needed when he needed it. Remember the 1973 back catalogue deal? According to Jerry Schilling, Elvis was over the moon about it. He'd netted himself a large pile of cash -- true monetary value of his catalogue, and history itself, be damned. That he didn't take greater control of his legacy was probably because he was "just an entertainer" in his own eyes. Even in a relatively unremarkable piece of footage where Elvis chats casually with his backing singers before going on stage in TTWII (cut footage; see YouTube), he drops out a revealing comment: he tells them that his jumpsuit is one of Bill Belew's latest and that Bill just "does something different every time." Elvis had very little input and wore whatever came his way. In "Careless Love", Binder tells how Elvis instantly OK-ed all his ideas for the "Guitar Man" theme, even though Binder was expecting to hear questions and quibbles.

Don't get mad, Joe. History is what it is. Just as Elvis was who he was. We shouldn't seek to deny it, even if it's rarely what we want or expect. It's shocking and upsetting that Elvis didn't fight and strive for more standards and more things in his life, but a person is like a house of cards: remove one part and the whole thing falls down. His personality, like all ours, had been shaped from birth, and that had positive attributes, and negative ones. But they all went together to make Elvis Elvis. To quote Shakespeare: "He was a man, take him for all in all. I shall not look upon his like again."


I have more respect for Micheal Jackson's nose surgeon then I have for Ger's opinion.

Re: KISS/Elvis

Mon Nov 20, 2006 4:43 am

swingbelly wrote:Ok..being a HUGE Kiss and and an Elvis fan on top of that, I can answer some questions on the KISS side of this discussion.
KISS DID NOT own ANY of these shows that were used in new 3 DVD set. All most all the footage has been around for at least 20 years in the bootleg market. They (KISS) over the years stole or extorted the footage back from the fans. KISS did not pay to have these shows filmed. All of the footage was used from the different locations in house closed circuit feeds. Most places filmed the shows and them offered them up to the band for sale after the show. Most declined and were never seen again. But these managed to hang on somehow over the years and here they are. So, why did it take so long for KISS to release this stuff. Easy, they never had it. Now Paul & Gene's greed are getting to them and see the chance to make some bucks.
Being a huge bootleg freak for KISS, I had EVERYTHING on the DVD's except for like 10 minutes of footage.


Interesting responce! I have often wondered this myself... was Elvis filmed at the venues also... you know BY the venue as you say Kiss were? I have the new DVD set and like you have had most of this footage for YEARS... but the one show on the extra disc from Largo Maryland Dec 20 1977, Elvis also played that same venue on June 27 1976! It would be very interesting to know if Elvis was filmed also. What also made me curious about this Largo location was that I also have bootleg concert from 1978 from the rock group Heart also filmed at this location, filmed by the venue.

JEFF d
EAP fan

Mon Nov 20, 2006 5:34 am

The venue is in Landover, Maryland, and was one of the first to have an in-house video system.

Thanks to that, there is a complete concert from one of the greatest rock tours of all time, captured on video ...

Bruce Springsteen and the E Street Band, August 15, 1978:

SUMMERTIME BLUES
BADLANDS
SPIRIT IN THE NIGHT
DARKNESS ON THE EDGE OF TOWN
FACTORY
THE PROMISED LAND
PROVE IT ALL NIGHT
RACING IN THE STREET
THUNDER ROAD
JUNGLELAND

PARADISE BY THE 'C'
4TH OF JULY, ASBURY PARK (SANDY)
SHERRY DARLING
SWEET LITTLE SIXTEEN
GLORIA - NOT FADE AWAY - SHE'S THE ONE
GROWIN' UP
BACKSTREETS
ROSALITA

BORN TO RUN
BECAUSE THE NIGHT

QUARTER TO THREE

Mon Nov 20, 2006 5:40 am

drjohncarpenter wrote:The venue is in Landover, Maryland, and was one of the first to have an in-house video system.

Thanks to that, there is a complete concert from one of the greatest rock tours of all time, captured on video ...

Bruce Springsteen and the E Street Band, August 15, 1978


Now see this is very cool!!! Any idea when the video system was installed? Like say before June 27th 1976 hopefully!!

JEFF d
EAP fan

Mon Nov 20, 2006 9:28 am

Don't get mad, Joe. History is what it is. Just as Elvis was who he was. We shouldn't seek to deny it, even if it's rarely what we want or expect.

Joe has issues with the reality of Elvis' 70's decline. He enjoys wearing blinders and blasts anyone for having an open discussion about Elvis's problems. If a statement doesn't come accross as compassionate, it is deemed unacceptable by Joe.

Mon Nov 20, 2006 10:11 am

It's a mistake to get on Elvis or the Colonel about not professionally filming shows. Who in 1972 predicted that one day everyone would have their own personal collection of movies and concerts? We're applying the knowledge of the present to the past which is always a mistake.

I think it's a mistake to say that Elvis did not have artistic vision or control. Plenty of times, he came into the studio with ideas about given pieces. Also his way of creation was to work until you find something. He's in control at all times. Plus, he basically picked all his singles which were his main medium of expression. When his next record was being released, where was his next tour, it's entirely possible and credible that Elvis saw these as business decisions which were for good or bad Parker's territory.

You can say the same thing about the movies and the publishing deal etc. He didn't like these things but resolved himself to their necessity. The poverty Elvis endured growing up can't be left out of assessments of his work and choices. Anything that seemed to guarantee continued wealth was a good thing.

It's also a mistake to say that he didn't have balls. He didn't like confrontation which is something different. He went up against Parker on a number of occasions- GI Blues (This is where the Fox movies came from), the TV show, "Suspicious Minds" and even attempted to fire him once. He didn't back down because he was afraid, he backed down because it seemed to his and his father's limited knowledge the practical thing to do.

You can argue quite fairly that he didn't study enough and that he should have kept a closer eye on business and the impact that business had on his music. You could also argue that he should have networked more to find out just what options were available. You can also argue that Elvis should have controlled himself more so as not to get himself into positions where he was constantly in need of money.

However, it's a mistake to attribute all that to any lack of artistic vision. Arguably, much of Elvis' commercial decline in the 1970s was caused by a rigid adherence to that vision. He was an artist and a conscious artist.

By the way although I disagree with Ger on this point, the scholarship he's done on Elvis and his music attests to his love of Elvis' music and should be appreciated by all fans.

Mon Nov 20, 2006 11:41 am

Another fine post, bike......
With regard Elvis' percieved lack of vision/artistic control, along with your pin point accurate remarks, one must also wonder what the naysayers think happened on the night of 19th August, 1974 at the Las Vegas Hilton??

Mon Nov 20, 2006 2:49 pm

likethebike wrote:By the way although I disagree with Ger on this point, the scholarship he's done on Elvis and his music attests to his love of Elvis' music and should be appreciated by all fans.


I think Ger is more in love with the image of 50's Elvis. He has little understanding of the human being behind that image.
To quote a famous singer, " The image is one thing. The Human being is another."

Mon Nov 20, 2006 3:20 pm

midnightx wrote:
Don't get mad, Joe. History is what it is. Just as Elvis was who he was. We shouldn't seek to deny it, even if it's rarely what we want or expect.

Joe has issues with the reality of Elvis' 70's decline. He enjoys wearing blinders and blasts anyone for having an open discussion about Elvis's problems. If a statement doesn't come accross as compassionate, it is deemed unacceptable by Joe.


I have no problems with admitting EP declined in the later years, that being said, I don't verbally trash him at every opportunity like you and your boss Ger, and I go above and beyond with my responses because of you and your amigo. I can see that Elvis was tormented and yes I do have compassion for him as I would for any human being going through an addiction and mental anguish. Perhaps you and Ger should try showing some compassion once in awhile, really, it's not that difficult.