All posts with more than 3000 Hits, prior to 2008

Thu Nov 16, 2006 9:36 pm

Memphis Flash wrote:Sorry but I have learned that some who appear to be trustworthy actually are not. And that's all I'm going to say about that. About the fans being Elvis' number one love, who doesn't know that? That's self-evident.

Joe Esposito made an interesting comment: He said if [someone] had actually kept a diary for Elvis, "it would have been the first book he wrote, not the third."


I'm no fan of Geller, but he has part in assembling the bigger picture.

One thing that creeps me out: in the same book I was drawing that last quotation from, he claims to have been the last person to touch Elvis before the casket was sealed. Ugh. Of *all* people.

(Thank goodness that Elvis' vital organs had already been removed for Larry's sake, or he might just have come back to life with sheer disgust and strangled the freaky imp).

Memphis Flash wrote:The reason people do not simply have pieces of a puzzle that you could put them together and figure out Elvis is that Elvis controlled what each person saw. Joe told Peter Guralnick that if he wanted to know about Elvis, he would have to talk to the women, because Elvis did not open himself up to men, that he put on a macho front to the guys. He could be soft and vulnerable in front of the women.


This is true. And it's *exactly* why you need everyone and everything to begin to make sense of who Elvis was and the life he actually lead. It starts at the music and flows from there. As a wise man said: it's all about the music and so much more. :wink:

Memphis Flash wrote:Even what Priscilla saw was not necessarily the real Elvis. Elvis told Ginger that Priscilla asked to borrow the Lisa Marie to take her hairdresser boyfriend Elie Ezerzer on safari to Africa, and that she wanted Elvis to set up her father in the wine business. "She's crazy if she thinks I'm going to do that," he said. But who thinks for a moment that's what he told Priscilla? You know he was far more tactful to her, gave her some other excuse. So no, I don't believe that anybody but Elvis knows what he really thought about any given thing.


Elvis thought... therefore, he was. -- Descartes (kinda)

Much agreed.

But his thoughts can be extrapolated and approximated by studying all the accounts and evidence for long enough. And there is an apt saying: actions speak louder than words. Elvis was a man of few words, at least in public, yet his filmed behaviour reveals a lot. But it isn't definitive in and of itself. It's the whole tapestry that's important. We can stitch Elvis back together and construct ourselves a Quasi-Elvis with enough research. You just need a critical mind and a lot of time.

Memphis Flash wrote:
Cryogenic wrote:N8 is a true friend of mine. While I have no idea what he's like in "real life", I have never seen a hint of nastiness from him on the Internet. Ever. He is straight and to the point, but has a patience. He has certainly shown it to me and I will be forever grateful that someone of his standing extended it.


That's your truth. But it would be a mistake to assume that is everyone's truth. Believe me, he knows and tries to control his edge.


You sound like his wife. :P

In all seriousness: I don't like people trashing other people I admire. And I admire N8 very much.

Thu Nov 16, 2006 9:46 pm

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Last edited by Memphis Flash on Thu Nov 16, 2006 9:49 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Thu Nov 16, 2006 9:47 pm

Cryogenic wrote:
In all seriousness: I don't like people trashing other people I admire. And I admire N8 very much.


You don't have to like it. He earned it. In spades.

Thu Nov 16, 2006 9:48 pm

Memphis Flash wrote:It's human nature, nothing new.


Agreed.

Have my own experiences here.

Memphis Flash wrote:
Cryogenic wrote:
In all seriousness: I don't like people trashing other people I admire. And I admire N8 very much.


You don't have to like it. He earned it. In spades.


I can say that Elvis earned Goldman's book... but he didn't.

What's your beef with N8? He never did a single thing wrong on this board. I don't know every last one of his posts, but I am familiar with many of them, not to mention his style and intellect overall. You're entitled to your opinions, but you wouldn't like it if I trashed your friends. PM me with your claims/evidence if you prefer. But I don't like seeing good people slandered.

Thu Nov 16, 2006 10:03 pm

Oh yes, right on this board. How long have you been here? January?

It's not worth my time to go into any history, and you are welcome to your reverie.

Nobody is perfect, in any event, so it should not matter a great deal to you.

Thu Nov 16, 2006 10:27 pm

Memphis Flash wrote:Oh yes, right on this board. How long have you been here? January?


Just a quick FYI:

I lurked way before then. And there is such a thing as the "Search" and "Find all posts by [member]" functions.

Memphis Flash wrote:It's not worth my time to go into any history, and you are welcome to your reverie.

Nobody is perfect, in any event, so it should not matter a great deal to you.


"Nobody is perfect". Interesting rhetoric. I can almost hear people defending the Goldman material with that line. :lol:

I like you, Memphis Flash, but I feel you are bitterly wrong on this issue, and your assumptions about me, combined with your unwillingness to explain your assessment of a good friend, lose you credibility. Shame.

Thu Nov 16, 2006 10:44 pm

Cryogenic wrote:\

I like you, Memphis Flash, but I feel you are bitterly wrong on this issue, and your assumptions about me, combined with your unwillingness to explain your assessment of a good friend, lose you credibility. Shame.


Have I made any assumptions about you? I don't recall making any but correct me if I have.

I am not worried about my credibility. Not at all. Sorry if I don't care to go into detail about someone who behaved as an absolute a sshole. Almost totally unjustified unless one can complain about unanswered PMs.

Any number of people here have witnessed, or been the brunt of, the behavior I am talking about, and I am sorry that you had to hear that there was no Santa Claus. It's wonderful that you didn't know it existed, because that says a lot about improved behavior. I always applaud that.

Some things are best forgotten. If you are burning to know the details, PM me and I'll consider it. But life is too short to dwell in the past, unless it is Elvis we are discussing.

Sorry if that isn't the answer you were looking for, but sometimes you just have to trust that someone knows what they are talking about. You are of course free to write them off as what, bitterly mistaken. That is your prerogative. Sometimes we just have to agree to disagree.

Thu Nov 16, 2006 11:27 pm

Memphis Flash wrote:Have I made any assumptions about you? I don't recall making any but correct me if I have.


You just assumed a few moments ago that my familiarity with this board and N880EP only extended to the date below my username. You were wrong.

Memphis Flash wrote:I am not worried about my credibility. Not at all. Sorry if I don't care to go into detail about someone who behaved as an absolute a sshole. Almost totally unjustified unless one can complain about unanswered PMs.


See? You throw a liquorice whip of an insinuation out into the open -- trashing someone on a public forum -- and don't elaborate.

Memphis Flash wrote:Any number of people here have witnessed, or been the brunt of, the behavior I am talking about


I have *never* seen or heard of anyone be insulted by N880EP. Whatever remarks he has made,.......... have *always* been PIN-SHARP accurate. Let me repeat: I have *never* seen N8 criticise someone or tar them with a brush that they didn't deserve. Yes, he is not a man to mince words, and he has a vast knowledge of Elvis (and other matters), and these are reasons that people clash and bad-mouth him later. I have seen it happen with my own eyes. It goes back to what you were saying before: human nature. Doesn't make those people "right" and N8 "wrong", however.

Memphis Flash wrote:I am sorry that you had to hear that there was no Santa Claus. It's wonderful that you didn't know it existed, because that says a lot about improved behavior. I always applaud that.


Santa Claus / "it" ?

You've lost me.

Memphis Flash wrote:Some things are best forgotten. If you are burning to know the details, PM me and I'll consider it. But life is too short to dwell in the past, unless it is Elvis we are discussing.


I already asked you to go that route. And now you're asking *me* to PM *you*? Sorry: why? Either explain yourself after the prompting I have already given,......... or do not. One may restore your credibility; the other will only continue to hamper it.

Memphis Flash wrote:Sorry if that isn't the answer you were looking for, but sometimes you just have to trust that someone knows what they are talking about. You are of course free to write them off as what, bitterly mistaken. That is your prerogative. Sometimes we just have to agree to disagree.


More vanilla-flavoured rhetoric.

I expected better.

sheila Ryan book

Thu Nov 16, 2006 11:56 pm

I'm no fan of Geller, but he has part in assembling the bigger picture.

One thing that creeps me out: in the same book I was drawing that last quotation from, he claims to have been the last person to touch Elvis before the casket was sealed. Ugh. Of *all* people.

(Thank goodness that Elvis' vital organs had already been removed for Larry's sake, or he might just have come back to life with sheer disgust and strangled the freaky imp).

- Sorry, I dont know how to put what someone else said in a box. But anyway, why did you write this? Was Larry Geller on Elvis black list at the time of Elvis death? I always get a weird feeling about Larry Geller.[/url][/list]

Re: sheila Ryan book

Fri Nov 17, 2006 12:01 am

e76 wrote:Sorry, I dont know how to put what someone else said in a box. But anyway, why did you write this? Was Larry Geller on Elvis black list at the time of Elvis death? I always get a weird feeling about Larry Geller.[/url][/list]


Larry Geller has overinflated his sense of importance and worth in the EP Story.

I wish N8 was actually here for this one. He knows things. A lot of things. Things weren't exactly peaches and cream between Elvis and Larry at the end. Again, that's something N880EP came out and said in another thread, and I believe him. It fits. Geller didn't have much involvement in EP's life: he simply wasn't around for most of it. Yet he makes out he was Elvis' hairdresser and "spiritual advisor", even though many people cut EP's hair, and EP was also his *own* spiritual advisor (plus others he consulted). Beware Romulans bearing gifts!

Fri Nov 17, 2006 12:14 am

Larry Gellar was revered enough by Vernon, to ask him to style Elvis's hair after his death I think that speaks volumes for him as a man.

But having said that I would take everything he said with a pinch of salt :?

I dont think anyone will ever know what he and Elvis talked about.........but I dont believe Elvis asked him to write everything down for his autobiography.

Fri Nov 17, 2006 12:19 am

sid wrote:Larry Gellar was revered enough by Vernon, to ask him to style Elvis's hair after his death I think that speaks volumes for him as a man.


It's a pretty good indication that Vernon trusted Geller,......... but it's nothing more than that.

Vernon was in a state of extreme grief. He needed someone to do Elvis' hair and Geller was around. I'm sure he was quick to volunteer himself for the position. Vernon also allowed himself to trust fully in The Colonel, too. Just as he allowed himself to firmly believe that Elvis had been murdered. Vernon was not in the best of states at that time, it's fair to say. (Colonel comment: Vernon trusted Colonel Tom anyway, but he was probably more open to suggest while in extreme emotional distress).

sid wrote:I would take everything he said with a pinch of salt


Agreed.

Fri Nov 17, 2006 1:00 am

Cryogenic wrote:
You really ought to stop thinking I'm N8.

I'm not N8
I do not think that! But on multiple levels8, fallacious8, fallacy8... I know by reading you look up to him and so I guess he must be flattered cause imitation is a form of it.....but if I were to give advice to a very smart kid (not thinking of you :wink: ) I would tell him/her that it is best to be yourself or more original....but what do I know!!! :lol: :lol: :lol:

Fri Nov 17, 2006 1:44 am

JLGB wrote:but if I were to give advice to a very smart kid (not thinking of you :wink: ) I would tell him/her that it is best to be yourself or more original....but what do I know!!! :lol: :lol: :lol:


Condescension hidden within a superficial shell of humour?

Oh, c'mon, JLGB........

Don't be dense. I *am* my own person. "Fallacy" and its off-shoots are important words and often get an airing. N8 certainly put that word/word family more into my head by giving it great visibility, but I have adopted it for being the right word family. Yes, other aspects of my posts are in more conscious emulation of him...... but so what? Those aspects work.

Aside from a bit of ball breakin', I think this is more to do with the fact that a lot of people, for one reason or another, are weary of N8. People may have their reasons, but I think they're off the mark. (Note: I have sorted out the conflict between myself and Memphis Flash via private messages; no further elaboration on that point). It's the same reason people go after the Doc. Their directness is a bitter pill for some to swallow. But these are also two of the greatest members of the community IMO.

Everyone should be their own person, but in being their own person, they shouldn't let their ego dominate their intellect. N8 is a good guy and I feel like retaining some of his characteristics or at least dusting them off from time to time. End of story.

Fri Nov 17, 2006 3:13 am

The 1981 Goldman book is so filled with hatred for the subject it is very hard to read, let alone keep on a bookshelf. And the author's intent to fully discredit who Elvis was, where he came from, and how he changed the world -- not to mention the scores of factual errors or omissions -- makes learning what Elvis kept in his powder box almost worthless.

Good luck to Shelia and her book -- in spite of their short time together, she might actually have more to offer than Jerry Shilling's most disappointing recent biography. Let's not judge until it's available to be read.

That said, a few points:

Memphis Flash wrote:Other than Elvis' affair with Hope Lange, who was an older woman ...

Hope was barely three years older than Elvis -- born November 31, 1931.

Memphis Flash wrote:David Stanley, who remains good friends with Lamar Fike, once told me, in the most serious tone, "Albert Goldman's book is the most accurate book ever written about Elvis."

David has obviously never read too many books on Elvis.

Memphis Flash wrote:He is still 50% owner of the book, however.

Lamar is on record as saying he made one lump sum of $150,000 on "Elvis," which he blew away in a very short time. What is the source of your statement?

JLGB wrote:Elvis did great but 68 special was CREATED tv magic not real magic on the stage like in the 69 comeback or 50s explosion ... It is myth like Goldman wrote ...

Conventional thinking primarily and rightfully credits Elvis with the success of his 1968 TV special.

Editing has NOTHING to do with his singing or guitar playing on June 27, 1968 -- perhaps the greatest rock and roll EVER put to tape by anyone -- or the incredible work done on tracks like "Trouble/Guitar Man," "Saved" or "If I Can Dream."

How anyone can say otherwise is beyond belief!

Fri Nov 17, 2006 10:21 am

Cryogenic wrote:
JLGB wrote:
Condescension hidden within a superficial shell of humour?

Oh, c'mon, JLGB........
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Condescension hidden?! Yes and no....you have the right to imitate and be in awe of anyone you want and even be a show off with your grey matter! BUT don't disrespect me. I am sure you can find another place to tear a hole into.

Fri Nov 17, 2006 10:36 am

drjohncarpenter wrote:

Editing has NOTHING to do with his singing or guitar playing on June 27, 1968 -- perhaps the greatest rock and roll EVER put to tape by anyone -- or the incredible work done on tracks like "Trouble/Guitar Man," "Saved" or "If I Can Dream."

How anyone can say otherwise is beyond belief!
Everything you say is very true except the editing. But of 4 performances for television taped...those minutes edited within the framework of the special were masterfully chosen even dialogue that faded before Elvis himself admitted to mumbling comes off better and even lets the viewer go off imagining theres more intellectual words spoken about the big change in the music field then. I will concede Doc I have exagerated....But the 4 or so hours filmed (although for the most part great) are not MAGICAL like those minutes seen originally in 1968. Makes sense?

Fri Nov 17, 2006 10:44 am

JLGB wrote:BUT don't disrespect me. I am sure you can find another place to tear a hole into.


You're taking this waaaaaaaay too seriously. Just like Steve took my crack in another thread too seriously. Is everyone on pills or something?

Fri Nov 17, 2006 1:09 pm

JLGB wrote:But the 4 or so hours filmed (although for the most part great) are not MAGICAL like those minutes seen originally in 1968. Makes sense?

If you're referring to the June 27, 1968 sit down shows, you have lost me. They're two of the greatest concerts in the history of rock and roll.

Here's an outstanding look (in PDF format) at why June 27 is important:

"The Little Theater" by Greil Marcus

Fri Nov 17, 2006 1:21 pm

Greil Marcus also wrote a fantastic, scathing review of that reprehensible Goldman biography in a 1981 "Village Voice" literary supplement.

Part of it was on-line, and I posted it a few months ago.

Evidently, it's worth another look:

"Lies About Elvis, Lies About Us"

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Fri Nov 17, 2006 3:36 pm

Cryogenic wrote:
JLGB wrote:BUT don't disrespect me. I am sure you can find another place to tear a hole into.


You're taking this waaaaaaaay too seriously. Just like Steve took my crack in another thread too seriously. Is everyone on pills or something?


I am, but I have it under control. No really I do. :lol: :lol:
Im just teasin...(not really) no really, just joshin....(I'm for real) Nah...

ala Eddie Izzard, I love that guy(?). As a comedian of course, not that there is anything wrong with the other way.

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Thanks for the links Doc! You have turned a rather bland thread into somthing very informative.

Fri Nov 17, 2006 4:01 pm

drjohncarpenter wrote:
JLGB wrote:But the 4 or so hours filmed (although for the most part great) are not MAGICAL like those minutes seen originally in 1968. Makes sense?

If you're referring to the June 27, 1968 sit down shows, you have lost me. They're two of the greatest concerts in the history of rock and roll.

Here's an outstanding look (in PDF format) at why June 27 is important:

"The Little Theater" by Greil Marcus
Thanks Doc! Again you are correct Doc! But the MAGIC in 1968 could not have happened with any show broadcast in an unedited form as seen many years later. This would have been without Trouble openning and IICD ending plus the rest including segments (the whole TV special with live segments inserted to tease and let imagination wander) from every one (I think) of 4 performances 2...sitdown...2 standup.....the legend,myth...grew and the Bootleg,HBO and finally DVD NEVER IMO equaled (lived up to the impossible expectations) the legend or myth created in 1968...I cannot express myself any better and thanks again for link! :)

Re: .

Fri Nov 17, 2006 6:10 pm

Blue-Gypsy wrote:Thanks for the links Doc! You have turned a rather bland thread into somthing very informative.


The Doc is virtually always to be credited, but you evidently missed my own refutation of JLGB's claims and my allusions to both of Greil Marcus essays. Since the Doc posted those, here is another great refutation of Goldman's goop:

http://www.ulmus.net/ace/aceworks/presley.cfm

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Fri Nov 17, 2006 6:29 pm

Ahhh my apologies sir. I will go back and re-read the thread.

Re: .

Fri Nov 17, 2006 7:16 pm

Cryogenic wrote:
Blue-Gypsy wrote:Thanks for the links Doc! You have turned a rather bland thread into somthing very informative.


The Doc is virtually always to be credited, but you evidently missed my own refutation of JLGB's claims and my allusions to both of Greil Marcus essays. Since the Doc posted those, here is another great refutation of Goldman's goop:

http://www.ulmus.net/ace/aceworks/presley.cfm
For the record. I think it was/is a very cool myth contrary to Goldman's view having no credit to Elvis at all or very little. I cannot stress that enough. I read that part and right away agreed with the Myth but disagreed with author's contempt of Elvis. Nevertheless I learned from it and by that time in the book knew how to weed out the meanness of the author against his subject. Interesting read over 20 years ago with lots of NEW info....lucky us today with the internet and sites like this one.