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Can you believe what you read? Phoenix 1970....

Fri Sep 29, 2006 2:27 am

I was going through some old
Phil Gelormine "Elvis World" magazines
which were printed in the late 70's early 80's....

Sad to say the pack filled information Elvis magazine
only lasted 4 years....
As it was the "Elvis Man and His Music"
of its day....

Nice to know Phil at least contributes to "Man And His Music"
to this day......

Anyway I'll move on as to why I posted.....

I came across an two part interview which was spread between
Issue No. 5 Fall, 1979 and Issue No. 6 Winter/Spring, 1979/80.
Image
Where associate Editor "Sam Roy" interviewed associate director
"John Wilson" of the movie "That's The Way It Is".

What I found most interesting in the interview was when
John Wilson on his own accord pointed out in the recorded
conversation seen in print between him and Sam that he suggested
they had gone to "Phoenix" and filmed the concert....

He doesn't just say bits and parts of the concert but the
whole concert.....

Here's how it's talked about in the interview....after they
had talked about other things about the movie....

John Wilson "We also filmed in Phoenix the concert he did there."

Sam Roy "Yeah,you filmed the whole concert ?"

John Wilson "And the funny thing about it is, like maybe an hour
before we were suppose to do it, there was a bomb scare.

Sam Roy "I heard about that, I read about that.
You mean you filmed the whole concert?"

John Wilson "Yeah, we filmed the whole concert"
Image
Sam Roy "And I heard that was a truly great concert"

John Wilson "Yes, it was a very good concert"


Is this something that we can believe?

Not about it being a great concert :lol: but about
them filming the whole concert?

Even after what we have seen or read so many
more years later...

Keep in mind this interview was done only nine years after
TTWII had been filmed, so the memory of John Wilson should
have been fresh....

Take note he also mentioned the bomb scare
so it sounds like he was there, but of course this is something
we already know...meaning we know MGM was there but
thus far it appears they only filmed the audience.

However in the interview you would think John Wilson would have
only mentioned it only in that way then...yet, he sounded confident
they had filmed the concert....which my guess would be he meant
filming Elvis on the stage not just the audience....

Any feelings about this?

Do you feel now, from what you may
have heard or read that he was mistaken
an didn't know what he was talking about?...

Is it more possible than not that it could be
believed the Phoenix concert was filmed
after reading this ?

Of course the proof would be if something came
foreward...which it hasn't yet...

What is that You believe?

No, it wasn't filmed and only the audience was at
this concert...

Or...

Yes, it was filmed and the film cans are still
sitting somewhere in the MGM vaults....or
maybe already in private hands?


If there was any concert to show in its entirety
you would think it would be this one....

Anyway more food for thought on this issue....

Maybe the surprise of the decade in the Elvis World
may come forward....now wouldn't that be great....

But for now I guess this goes where the "Piper"
footage goes...which is no where.....

PEP 8)
Last edited by PEP on Fri Sep 29, 2006 5:02 am, edited 2 times in total.

Fri Sep 29, 2006 3:29 am

Ernst has the answers to this and so much more.....

Fri Sep 29, 2006 3:46 am

GERRY wrote:Ernst has the answers to this and so much more.....


Hi GERRY when you say this do you mean we can assume this
or has there been something new Ernst has said regarding this
concert lately?

Which I have missed reading.....

I'am aware if I'm not mistaked Ernst has suggested the concert
was not filmed an only the audience was....which leaves us
to believe was the case and what we have ended up seeing thus far....

But again why does someone who appeared
to be closer to the project back in 79' interview suggest the opposite...
is the question....

Did John Wilson suggest for no other reason then to make up a story
just for making it up...Not sure what his motive would have been...

PEP 8)

Fri Sep 29, 2006 3:47 am

I think it was near enough the whole of the concert that was filmed.

It's just the stupid darn camera angle they chose to film - the audience!

Fri Sep 29, 2006 4:30 am

Steve_M wrote:I think it was near enough the whole of the concert that was filmed.

It's just the stupid darn camera angle they chose to film - the audience!


Steve this maybe very true from what we are made to believe
all these years.

The odds no doubt are slim something better does exist in
another angle and it doesn't help when one see's wide angle
pictures of this concert and there are no camera's to be seen
in the shots...

But logic would suggest they would have brought another
camera to this event as back up......an maybe that is what
John Wilson was thinking about....when he said they filmed
the whole concert.

I personally feel there is more material not seen yet from TTWII,
especially other angles...

Don't you?...

Plus I also feel the International shows were filmed completely...
meaning there was always at least one camera running....

What are feelings about this?

My guess is not all film footage has surfaced yet....

The Fringe footage filmed at the International is a good example
of where we had been told for many years there wasn't anymore
than what one saw in the Original TTWII....
Keep in mind this of course was proven not to be the case.... :wink:

PEP 8)

Fri Sep 29, 2006 7:34 am

Although there is certainly more unissued TTWII footage than has leaked in the past year, it seems reasonable to assume if the whole September Phoenix concert was caught on film by Dennis Sanders, something would have surfaced by 2006, either officially or unofficially.

Fri Sep 29, 2006 7:55 am

What is weird about the whole thing is that they would go to Phoenix just to film the audience??

It makes no sense really, unless they did film Elvis.

Why go to Phoenix when you can just film the audience in Las Vegas, which they did and did use in the film.

The original plan was to film Elvis preparing for and performing his big show in Las vegas. Phoenix just doesn't fit in with the scope of the project. Although they did use some of that audience footage in the film as well, and its easy to spot because the lighting was different.

I wonder if the director thought that maybe he would film this tour show just as a test, just in case he wanted to change his original concept.

Interesting article that once again, brings in more questions than answers.

Fri Sep 29, 2006 9:01 am

Maybe this is one of those "mind-blowing" things that Ernst was referring to and was discussed on another thread on the board recently.

Phil Gelormine has done some swell research on Elvis. I met him at Madison Square Garden a few years back and he sold me a compilation of press clippings of the 1972 Garden visit. He didn't miss a thing. He even got Al Goldstein's review of the show from "Screw" magazine.

Fri Sep 29, 2006 9:07 am

drjohncarpenter wrote:Although there is certainly more unissued TTWII footage than has leaked in the past year, it seems reasonable to assume if the whole September Phoenix concert was caught on film by Dennis Sanders, something would have surfaced by 2006, either officially or unofficially.


Well one would like to think so Doc...still after a little more than
a year another two minute clip leaked from the TTWII vault....

Which I know was not available before....

Not to say the clip was anymore special than what already had
been released, but this small clip appears to be guarded a little
more for what ever the reason...yet what is making it special I
guess, it appears not all have it.

I'm assuming this because no one has talked about it
meaning their are some who have talked about it,
just not on the net in detail...at least not yet...
for the reasons why.... I don't ask...but I know
its out there......and only has been available over
the last six months or so....

Another example of something talked about for years
but no real proof is the the rumored 71' Boston footage
as a example.
Image
Some as we know have suggested they
have seen as many as three different camera angles,
all angles which claim to be either too dark....
or too shakee....

I personally haven't seen it and know no one who
I have spoken to who I know who has access to this
type of material..... mine you there has been one person
and only one person who I feel does have some credabilty
suggested to me inperson they now do believe it does exist..
when they have said it didn't at one time..still of course no
proof from this person tho....

So I in return at this point do not believe it does exist
at least not in 16mm form....

However there is a possibility the rumor still
might have some bite....not much, but its holding on....
and has not appeared to have leaked as yet....in
any form.....

Almost like the "Piper" footage.....
Image
As each year goes by it seems like the "Piper" footage
doesn't have a hope of ever coming available because
it may never have ever existed......yet for some there is
still hope because of what has been written.... or said...
the rumor may stop once someone officially does another
legitimate investigation or someone officially comes forward
from Universal as a example or from the people who where
there who end up either saying it once an for all that it
either did happen or it didn't happen....an all agreeing
to the choice made.....

But getting back to Phoenix 70', as we know things don't look
good because after all this time nothing has come forward....
Image
But don't you think this has a better chance of showing'
up then Boston 71'?
Image
We have to remember when the footage for the
"Lost Performances" video came out in 92' which
was twenty two years after the original release of TTWII
there had been no idea prior there was even any
'Red Ladder" suit footage in the vaults.....
Image
Plus Schilling suggested in Memphis in 93' or 94' he
felt nothing was left worth releasing....

But he was wrong wasn't he?

Another eight years goes by, more footage became
available through TTWII Special Edition in 2000 now
making it thirty years without major leakage.

Then what happens it takes about another four or five
years for all hell to break loose keeping in mind now
some thirty five years has past....and what do you fine
in some of the goodies more fringe material said not
to exist.....
Image
An who knows there may be more to come.....
or it just might continue to stay in private hands....

Some got very lucky in the last year while others
did not....

So, Doc...I agree things don't look good, but something's still
don't add up 100%.....
Image
Its a long shot and if I were a betting man which I was at one
time....I would probably pass , but find out later knowing my luck
I should have placed the bet..... :wink:

PEP 8)
Last edited by PEP on Fri Sep 29, 2006 9:54 am, edited 3 times in total.

Fri Sep 29, 2006 9:46 am

likethebike wrote: He even got Al Goldstein's review of the show from "Screw" magazine.


Yeah, and 'interesting' review :wink:

".....Elvis on stage is better than seeing Kissinger giving head to Nixon or Martha Mitchell lapping her husband's scroungy cock"

"He had the practicing faggots at MSG drooling over his tool and my girlfriend was breathing heavy........"

"....Elvis and his tough bodyguards and the whole concept of there structured myth made me feel as if I had been to my own garden of unrealized and untrampled dreams, and that's the sweetest music a 36 year old pervophile like me could hear. It was good wine and thanks, Elvis, for bringing it all back home"

Fri Sep 29, 2006 11:20 am

Not suprising at all, PEP. Some fans around believe that just because only audience footage from Phoenix were released a year ago mean that footage of Elvis from that show don't exist. Use common sense for heaven sake. It is pretty clear that they filmed Elvis too. When Ernst and someone else in the project say something else they only prepare for future suprising news that "they just found" new filmrolls in "a saltmine in Kansas" or something like that. This is how they operate and marketing new releases based of what have been done the last 20 years. They don't fool me :)

Kenneth

Fri Sep 29, 2006 11:32 am

Kenneth wrote: When Ernst and someone else in the project say something else they only prepare for future suprising news that "they just found" new filmrolls in "a saltmine in Kansas" or something like that. This is how they operate and marketing new releases based of what have been done the last 20 years. They don't fool me :)

Kenneth
I totally agree with this quote...

Fri Sep 29, 2006 1:43 pm

PEP, put Parker into the equation and things become a little clearer.

They had the chance and many different opportunities to film Elvis in Vegas in all sorts of situations.
They didn't manage to get very good shots of the audience in Vegas because of the type of audience and the layout of the seating. This was a showroom audience and not a concert audience, if you see what I mean.

If they wanted to extend their shooting of Elvis in concert to include on the road stuff then I'll bet Parker would have made them pay a price, one which at the time would not have made sense to do as they had so much of Elvis in the can from Vegas anyway.

If you think peoples memory should have been good in the late 70's for details on this then you only have to look at the "fact" being toted around about the use of Mystery Train in the original TTWII as being taken from the Phoenix show. We now know that it wasn't as Elvis never performed it there.

Fri Sep 29, 2006 2:08 pm

drjohncarpenter wrote:Although there is certainly more unissued TTWII footage than has leaked in the past year, it seems reasonable to assume if the whole September Phoenix concert was caught on film by Dennis Sanders, something would have surfaced by 2006, either officially or unofficially.


Whatever happened to "it is written, therefore it is so" Doc? :wink:

Fri Sep 29, 2006 2:56 pm

Why cant Ernst just confirm that he has seen some unreleased film from 70?

What is so hard about that?

Fri Sep 29, 2006 2:59 pm

GERRY wrote:It is possible that as they at the time only planned to use film from Vegas that someone thought it was ok to take home the Pheonix Ar reels and they remain to this day in someones private stash.

But then i think whoever has them--could they have resisted trying to find out what they are worth? Especially around the time Schmidlin and Co were making the re-edit...

Why cant Ernst just confirm that he has seen some unreleased film from 70?

What is so hard about that?


We live in hope. I just hope that whoever has the reels (if they exist) has not forgotten, died or whatever, and they are going to gather dust forever. Now that would be a trdgedy.

It would be awesome to see this show in TTWII quality.

Fri Sep 29, 2006 3:51 pm

I was told two years ago that there's about half an hour of Pheonix concert footage doing the rounds privately, with Elvis. It's not in the best quality - afraid I can't remember the exact details. Might not have sound or something, I really can't remember.

Boston '71 is better, apparantly. Then again, there's been no film of it on these DVDs we've had.

Still, I've not seen the hard evidence, as it were, so there's no proof and I doubt anyone on the board who does know will say anything!

BTW, in photos from Pheonix / Boston, has anyone seen film cameras?

Fri Sep 29, 2006 3:54 pm

The Phoenix 70 footage of Elvis will someday see the daylight. I'am sure that the rest of the TTWII and On Tour outtakes are in some private collector hands who is watching this topic :lol: Just offer 1 million and you have a copy with turner property logo on. Maybe you can have the unreleased nearly complete 13 aug MS too included :wink:

After you have that you could made a future deal and buy the complete footage of 3 aug 69 DS which the Fort Baxter "opening night 69" recording came from 8) :wink:

Am I dreaming :roll:

Fri Sep 29, 2006 3:57 pm

Kenneth wrote:The Phoenix 70 footage of Elvis will someday see the daylight. I'am sure that the rest of the TTWII and On Tour outtakes are in some private collector hands who is watching this topic :lol: Just offer 1 million and you have a copy with turner property logo on. Maybe you can have the unreleased nearly complete 13 aug MS too included :wink:

After you have that you could made a future deal and buy the complete footage of 3 aug 69 DS which the Fort Baxter "opening night 69" recording came from 8) :wink:

Am I dreaming :roll:


You can have it all for half a million. Just bring the cash in a suitcase to platform 3 at Liverpool Street, 3:30 Monday.

I swear I'll post it all once I have counted all the cash at home :lol:

Fri Sep 29, 2006 4:02 pm

Kenneth wrote:

After you have that you could made a future deal and buy the complete footage of 3 aug 69 DS which the Fort Baxter "opening night 69" recording came from


I have heard this before but i didnt know if the person was being serious or not-this would be awesome if true.

Fri Sep 29, 2006 5:03 pm

BIGREDG wrote:
Kenneth wrote:The Phoenix 70 footage of Elvis will someday see the daylight. I'am sure that the rest of the TTWII and On Tour outtakes are in some private collector hands who is watching this topic :lol: Just offer 1 million and you have a copy with turner property logo on. Maybe you can have the unreleased nearly complete 13 aug MS too included :wink:

After you have that you could made a future deal and buy the complete footage of 3 aug 69 DS which the Fort Baxter "opening night 69" recording came from 8) :wink:

Am I dreaming :roll:


You can have it all for half a million. Just bring the cash in a suitcase to platform 3 at Liverpool Street, 3:30 Monday.

I swear I'll post it all once I have counted all the cash at home :lol:


Okay, I'll be there, as soon as my hunchback brother straightens out! :lol:

Fri Sep 29, 2006 5:04 pm

Steve_M wrote:PEP, put Parker into the equation and things become a little clearer.

They had the chance and many different opportunities to film Elvis in Vegas in all sorts of situations.
They didn't manage to get very good shots of the audience in Vegas because of the type of audience and the layout of the seating. This was a showroom audience and not a concert audience, if you see what I mean.

True, but I'm assuming Sanders doesn't decide to pack up three weeks later just to film audience reaction when he an his group didn't know what to expect....meaning this decision was't made on the fly....it must have been requested or suggested to be filmed much earlier in the game for more reason than just to film the audience.....because even if in all the weeks they didn't get what they were looking for in audience reaction in Vegas who was it that told them Phoenix is where ya should be to get what you want....to help begin your film....

An really was it really needed?
Image
Sanders could have edited differently and
just used what he had in the can.

No one would have known the difference...
or missed the Phoenix reaction.....because
it wouldn't have existed....

In some ways doesn't make sense.....
it does after the fact but not before....


If they wanted to extend their shooting of Elvis in concert to include on the road stuff then I'll bet Parker would have made them pay a price, one which at the time would not have made sense to do as they had so much of Elvis in the can from Vegas anyway.

If you think peoples memory should have been good in the late 70's for details on this then you only have to look at the "fact" being toted around about the use of Mystery Train in the original TTWII as being taken from the Phoenix show. We now know that it wasn't as Elvis never performed it there.

Here again Steve, I do understand what your saying
about memories here, or what people believe what
they saw or didn't see....

Regarding that clip...that's all it was, was a clip and it short
one at that....

To the none Elvis fan they wouldn't know if that was
Phoenix or not...nor even remember the song....
it wouldn't matter to them....even days later...
never mine nine years later...

But what that clip does do to the camera guy ...
maybe is that he remembers Elvis wore that suit and
so inreturn that's why he thinks or says...
"oh yea Phoenix we filmed that"......
Image
In John Wilson's case he doesn't go into detail.....
but he does believe or rather remembers filming
Elvis in Phoenix...
Image
If it was just audience...he would have known this and
inreturn there would have been no reason for him to
bring it up in conversation....

Because you have to remember he's the one that
brought it up in the interview on his own accord and
by doing so, because of what he
knew he should have said then...

"Oh yea we were there in Phoenix,
but I got to tell you we only
filmed the audience"....

He doesn't say that because he knows they filmed
more than just the audience when he says
'We filmed the complete show".....

I'm only guessing of course, but that's another
way of looking at it... :wink:


PEP 8)


Fri Sep 29, 2006 6:30 pm

I don't agree with your assumptions.

I'll wager they only took one camera with them and a crew of no more than three. I doubt if Wilson was one of the three, but that he remembers they filmed in Phoenix. He doesn't claim to have even been there, just that he recalled that they filmed in Phoenix.

Fri Sep 29, 2006 7:48 pm

Steve_M wrote:I don't agree with your assumptions.

I'll wager they only took one camera with them and a crew of no more than three. I doubt if Wilson was one of the three, but that he remembers they filmed in Phoenix. He doesn't claim to have even been there, just that he recalled that they filmed in Phoenix.


Your right Steve he doesn't out an out say he was there, but
in one way he does imply it because he brings up he was aware
of the bomb scare....granted he could of heard it from someone
just like anyone else...but it doesn't come across that way to me
as he is so casual about brining it up.....in his quote...

John Wilson "And the funny thing about it is, like maybe an hour
before we were suppose to do it, there was a bomb scare.


Which to me..this sounds like he was there, he needed
not to explain further.....

Or did he?

In a court of law maybe.... :lol:

Anyway with respect to One camera being there, you
would think Wilson would have maybe brought that up too
an at the same time him being a camera guy he should have
known what was the point of even bringing up that they were
there to film if there was only one camera and he knew it
was always pointed at the audience.....
not to mention No sound as well.....as what
was then filmed was worthless really for anyone who would care...

So again I can't understand his motive for bringing it up in the
first place.

It doesn't make sense....

He still must have known more.....

It's just to bad Sam the interviewer didn't dive
into asking Wilson for a few more detail's....as
to what he meant when he said they filmed the
concert....

PEP 8)

Sat Sep 30, 2006 4:53 am

I dont read it like that. It maybe the case he was there, I'm just saying I dont read it like that.

Sam Goldwyn would say he made hundreds of films, but that's not the same as being behind the camera himself on on any particular lot. I just think Wilson is speaking on behalf of his whole production. He doesn't say he was there but that, "...like maybe an hour
before we were suppose to do it..."

I wish I could recall or find the article about the production member who said that they used Mystery Train audio from Phoenix. It would be apt (or maybe not) if it was also Wilson.