All posts with more than 3000 Hits, prior to 2008

Is the song I'll Never Fall In Love Again (say, the undubbed version on OMOE) pathetic?

Poll ended at Sat Sep 16, 2006 10:52 pm

Yes
9
16%
No
47
84%
 
Total votes : 56

Thu Sep 21, 2006 5:25 pm

>>> It was not good enough for a definitive 1970s box set. Not good enough to find a place among FOUR CDs. Not good enough to fill one of 93 slots.

- and this box was good enough to be filled by various rubbish, Froggy etc??

>>> Exactly, and everyone was very happy that "I'll Never Fall In Love Again" was left off the definitive, 1970s Elvis Presley box set.

- arrogant again but what to expect from you. Speak for yourself Mr. Arrogant, OK? You was very happy and this is correct. Others maybe not.

Thu Sep 21, 2006 9:17 pm

drjohncarpenter wrote:
3577 wrote:
drjohncarpenter wrote:But, somehow, he couldn't find a place for such an "incredible" and, apparently, "essential" performance as "I'll Never Fall In Love Again."

What if he did choose ''I'll Never Fall In Love Again''?

But -- he did NOT. That's the point! It was not good enough for a definitive 1970s box set. Not good enough to find a place among FOUR CDs. Not good enough to fill one of 93 slots.

3577 wrote:Maybe it's a matter of, ''how can i satisfy everyone?

Exactly, and everyone was very happy that "I'll Never Fall In Love Again" was left off the definitive, 1970s Elvis Presley box set.


EJ did satisfy us with the master-pieces '' Alla' En El ''Rancho Grande'''' + ''Froggy Went A Courtin''. Especially the vocals on ''Alla'' are brilliant. Still have hopes for a full live version in the future. :roll:

Fri Sep 22, 2006 3:51 am

Even though I consider INFILA a below par performance, I wouldn't belabour the point of it's omission from the 70's box. After all, Early Morning Rain didn't make it, whilst Life, Heart of Rome, and Mr. Songman did make the cut, and there's nobody gonna convince me that those 3 are superior to EMR!

Heart of Rome is utter crap. everytime I hear it I wanna pi$$ AND sh*t in every fountain! :lol:

Fri Sep 22, 2006 6:52 am

Pete Dube wrote:Even though I consider INFILA a below par performance, I wouldn't belabour the point of it's omission from the 70's box. After all, Early Morning Rain didn't make it, whilst Life, Heart of Rome, and Mr. Songman did make the cut, and there's nobody gonna convince me that those 3 are superior to EMR!

Heart of Rome is utter crap. everytime I hear it I wanna pi$$ AND sh*t in every fountain! :lol:


I agree with every syllable you wrote Pete.........

Fri Sep 22, 2006 11:41 am

3577 wrote:
EJ did satisfy us with the master-pieces '' Alla' En El ''Rancho Grande'''' + ''Froggy Went A Courtin''. Especially the vocals on ''Alla'' are brilliant. Still have hopes for a full live version in the future. :roll:


Good point, 3577. :lol:

Fri Sep 22, 2006 11:53 am

Well I wote for "Froggy". It can be really great if performed live, with Elvis using green frog puppet like he did during Love Me on 18.08.75 Opening :twisted:

Fri Sep 22, 2006 12:37 pm

Pete Dube wrote:... Life, Heart of Rome, and Mr. Songman did make the cut ...

Pete, your argument is dishonest. If you accept Ernst's decision to make CD1 and 2 a representation of the singles issued in the 1970s, these have to be included. All of Elvis' single releases should've been excellent, and the fact that you had such sub-par examples is a very subtle way of revealing what went wrong with his recording career in that decade.

Fri Sep 22, 2006 11:38 pm

I finally got to nail you with elements of your own garbage, mr.DJC. You say that Life, Heart Of Rome and Mr. Songman had to be included due to the fact that they were singles, and therefore making a point out of argumental dishonesty over their inclusions.

Yet, you said earlier that out of 93 spots INFILA didn't make it onto the set. Now, let me see...

Perhaps it could have been placed on the first SINGLES CD? Hmmm... No.

Perhaps maybe on the second SINGLES CD? No, not even there!

What about STUDIO HIGHLIGHTS 1970-1971? Should think not.

That leaves us with STUDIO HIGHLIGHTS 1971-1976.
This one has 23 spots for studio highlights made between June 1971 and October 1976. From June 1971 to Oct 1976 we have in the neighbourhood of 60 masters that would not be included in the -70/-71 Highlights and/or were not released as singles. (I've even omitted the studiojams for the sake of "honesty"). That leaves us with no more than 5 spots for it to have made it into!

Yet you find it as being convenient to claim that it had 93 chances to be included in the box-set?!?
How do you explain that, and more importantly: Where's the "honesty" in that argument?

Embarrased? You should be.

Fri Sep 22, 2006 11:46 pm

Thanks for the wonderfull statement, FVH. :D

Sat Sep 23, 2006 12:29 am

It's a toss-up as to what's more irritating, your complaints or your ignorance. Read this post s-l-o-w-l-y and some of it might sink in.

FVH wrote:You say that Life, Heart Of Rome and Mr. Songman had to be included due to the fact that they were singles ...

No, I do not. My point is that once Ernst set firm parameters for the first two discs of 70s box, it meant he'd be including some tracks that were below-par. And it makes complaints about choice superfluous.

It remains a rather ingenious move on his part to deign CD 1 and 2 "Singles," as it does provide comment on the career without being didatic.

FVH wrote:... it had 93 chances to be included in the box-set?!? How do you explain that ...

When the project began, Ernst had a general assignment: fill 5 CDs, as per the previous two comprehensive box sets. After leaving one disc for the live work -- plus "bonus tracks" to help sell the collection, something else some of you fail to acknowledge -- he had four discs and approximately 93 spaces to fill.

Regardless of how Jørgensen split up the seven years, it remains a fact that "I'll Never Fall In Love Again" did not make the cut, in spite of how "great" so many of you believe it is.

FVH wrote:Embarrased? [sic] You should be.

I am indeed "Embarrased" -- for you.

Buh-bye!

Sat Sep 23, 2006 12:51 am

drjohncarpenter wrote:Regardless of how Jørgensen split up the seven years, it remains a fact that "I'll Never Fall In Love Again" did not make the cut, in spite of how "great" so many of you believe it is.


Now, this is braindead even by your standards.
Are you implying that Ernst made up these headings for the CD's to justify avoiding putting the song onto the set, among other things???
YOU claimed that out of 93 spots it didn't make the set. Even if it didn't fit under the headings the CD's had in the first place! That was your argument, and there's no way you can wrestle out of that; even you are not that greasy.

And I have to admit that it was stupid of me to try to embarrass someone who has made it an art to embarrass himself beyond reason.

Also, it's funny how you always seem to return after your stupid finale-inducing "buh-byes". How can we then take your "buh-byes" seriously?

Sat Sep 23, 2006 7:05 am

Don't waste your time with the 'Doctor', FVH......you have him by the short and curly's but he will never admit to his erroneous statements.

Sat Sep 23, 2006 7:16 am

Pete Dube wrote: After all, Early Morning Rain didn't make it, ...


Yes Pete, it would have been nice to have EMR on the set. I really like this song.


8)

Sat Sep 23, 2006 7:44 am

Larry Dickman wrote:Don't waste your time with the 'Doctor', FVH......you have him by the short and curly's but he will never admit to his erroneous statements.


Not only waste of time, exhausting too.

Sat Sep 23, 2006 3:42 pm

Larry Dickman wrote:Don't waste your time with the 'Doctor', FVH......you have him by the short and curly's but he will never admit to his erroneous statements.


Well, it just pisses me off that that self-indulgant son of a bitch thinks he can twist and turn every statement he makes to be true, even if he has rambled himself further up deep-shit creek than ever before.
And since he thinks that Ernst decicions are the true gospel based merely on the fact that he is employed by BMG to handle Elvis' recordings, he probably agrees with Ernst 100% when he decided that Hey Jude was one of the ESSENTIAL 60's masters when it was released under just that flag on the sixties boxset. A song the "Rock and Roll Scholar" ( :roll: :roll: :roll: ) himself has deemed as a worthless and pathetic effort. I agree on that point; in my opinion the song belongs at the back of a rare moments CD or something.

He has bitten himself in his own ass so many times that one can only hope that one day he'll take a chunk big enough to choke on...!

And for the record: I have absolutely nothing against Ernst Jørgensen; I think he is doing a faboulous job. He is just an unfortunate pawn in this.

Sat Sep 23, 2006 4:56 pm

i think the Doc needs to take a chill pill.
The vote is in - the song is not `pathetic'.
It may not be one of Elvis' classic performances but nor is it an embarrassment.
What is embarrassing is teasing people if they leave a letter out of a word.
ric

Sat Sep 23, 2006 5:17 pm

drjohncarpenter wrote:
Pete Dube wrote:... Life, Heart of Rome, and Mr. Songman did make the cut ...

Pete, your argument is dishonest. If you accept Ernst's decision to make CD1 and 2 a representation of the singles issued in the 1970s, these have to be included. All of Elvis' single releases should've been excellent, and the fact that you had such sub-par examples is a very subtle way of revealing what went wrong with his recording career in that decade.


Ok, I suppose I was being a bit disingenuos given the structure of the box. And while I understand why the box was structured the way it was (this morning I even re-read the excellent Goldmine roundtable discussion featuring Ernst, Roger, Dave Marsh and William Rhulman that get's into this), and even support this structure, at the same time it has always been slightly disappointing to me due to what the structure caused to be left off. Especially given the "Essential" tag. Yes the complete singles mandated the inclusion of Heart of Rome; Life and what not, but in no way can those tracks really be considered essential whereas Early Morning Rain is at the very least in the essential ballpark. But I take your point about the sub-par singles subtlely showing what went wrong with Elvis' recording career.

I'm not in the camp that thinks they should've just released all the secular studio masters. By doing so you lose the live disc which contains some of Elvis' best work of the decade (as well as some of his rockingest efforts!).

Sat Sep 23, 2006 10:04 pm

The damn format of the boxset meant that it was made to satisfy everyone and yet please no one.

It should have followed the previous box set formats and included EVERY studio master with some extras.

Then we wouldn't be arguing about what should and shouldn't have been left off.

I am still pissed because of every song that was left off.

I never counted them, but it must be around 20-25 songs.

They could have then focused the live stuff on an all-live box set.

Sun Sep 24, 2006 1:40 am

ekenee wrote:It should have followed the previous box set formats and included EVERY studio master with some extras.

No way.

The box was clearly structured to present the best possible definition of Elvis Presley in his final seven years. The live disc had to be there, because his live shows dominated the final decade of his life. If every master had been included, that would've negatively skewed Ernst and Roger's idealized vision of his most difficult decade, probably reduced sales, and definitely thrown Elvis, Ernst and BMG to the critical wolves.

The 70s box wasn't made for "everyone," it was designed to bring in the customer who took the plunge with the 50s and 60s boxes, in the hope that they would find a similar level of enjoyment -- and perhaps a deeper interest -- in the man and his music.

Sun Sep 24, 2006 1:50 am

rickeap wrote:i think the Doc needs to take a chill pill.
The vote is in - the song is not `pathetic'.
It may not be one of Elvis' classic performances but nor is it an embarrassment.
What is embarrassing is teasing people if they leave a letter out of a word.
ric


Well said Rick.

Sun Sep 24, 2006 2:40 am

DJC wrote:

No way.

The box was clearly structured to present the best possible definition of Elvis Presley in his final seven years. The live disc had to be there, because his live shows dominated the final decade of his life. If every master had been included, that would've negatively skewed Ernst and Roger's idealized vision of his most difficult decade, probably reduced sales, and definitely thrown Elvis, Ernst and BMG to the critical wolves.

The 70s box wasn't made for "everyone," it was designed to bring in the customer who took the plunge with the 50s and 60s boxes, in the hope that they would find a similar level of enjoyment -- and perhaps a deeper interest -- in the man and his music.

***********************************

No way.

The box under these stipulations had way too many faults.

The box sets from the 50's on up were meant to be all-inclusive.

I agree with your assessment that Elvis was a live-artist in the 70's, but that's just what I mean. There should have been, a box set of just live material.

The 70's box is a failure in my eyes. There was no order, no focus, and plenty of missing songs.

If Ernst wanted to create a "best of" the 70's that also could have been done with a 2 disc set mixing live and studio, but to try to do that with a 5 disc set was ludicrous.

Now everyone is arguing the strength of this song against that song.

ie. surely "Early morning rain" is better than "Mr. songman".

Sun Sep 24, 2006 4:34 am

ekenee wrote:The box sets from the 50's on up were meant to be all-inclusive.

Nope. Only the 50s box was that way, and for a number of logical reasons.

ekenee wrote:I agree with your assessment that Elvis was a live-artist in the 70's ...

That was not my assessment.

ekenee wrote:The 70's box is a failure in my eyes. There was no order, no focus, and plenty of missing songs.

Bet you bought it! If only all box sets were similar "failures."

ekenee wrote:If Ernst wanted to create a "best of" the 70's that also could have been done with a 2 disc set ...

Again, Ernst didn't strive to create a "best of" with the 70s box.

He and Roger compiled a empathetic, intelligent 1970s overview that, for the most part, delivered the concept that Elvis remained a valid and creative artist until nearly the very end, despite his overwhelming personal and physical maladies. Thus, bye-bye to crap like "I'll Never Fall In Love Again."

It wasn't called "Walk A Mile In My Shoes" because they liked exercise.

Sun Sep 24, 2006 4:54 am

I agree that the 70s box was an excellent compilation. It was necessary to keep it to the five-disc format and provide a few sweeteners for the dedicated fan.
However, there was some material (i.e. Froggy) that would have been better kept to an FTD-style release and I'd also question the use of some live versions of 50s songs.
However, that does not mean all the studio songs that didn't make the final cut are `crap'.
Rick

Sun Sep 24, 2006 5:08 am

Posted: Sun Sep 24, 2006 3:34 am Post subject:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

ekenee wrote:
The box sets from the 50's on up were meant to be all-inclusive.

DJC wrote: Nope. Only the 50s box was that way, and for a number of logical
reasons.

I was speaking of "studio" songs so the 60's box did include all those, minus the movie material and gospel material which was dealt with seperately, just as the live 70's stuff should have been. They simply should have follow the same pattern.
ekenee wrote:
I agree with your assessment that Elvis was a live-artist in the 70's ...

DJC wrote: That was not my assessment.

ekenee wrote:
The 70's box is a failure in my eyes. There was no order, no focus, and plenty of missing songs.

DJC wrote: Bet you bought it! If only all box sets were similar "failures."

Yes I bought it, and I knew its short comings in advance.

BMG albums have always had a lack of cohesion and focus even when they were putting together albums when Elvis was alive.
There have been improvements though, thru the years.


ekenee wrote:
If Ernst wanted to create a "best of" the 70's that also could have been done with a 2 disc set ...

DJC wrote: Again, Ernst didn't strive to create a "best of" with the 70s box.

He and Roger compiled a empathetic, intelligent 1970s overview that, for the most part, delivered the concept that Elvis remained a valid and creative artist until nearly the very end, despite his overwhelming personal and physical maladies. Thus, bye-bye to crap like "I'll Never Fall In Love Again."

Really.....then how do you explain some of the crap that was included in the massive 5 disc set. Are saying it was all gold? Or silver?

The format basically sucked. Especially the first 2 discs that included the 45's in order. That took the cake. Then that suedo live concert deal, which really was a jumbled mess. I rarely listen to that 5th disc.

Sun Sep 24, 2006 5:17 am

Yeah 'Doctor'....what about 'crap' like Froggy and Rancho Grande....hardly "The Essential 70's Masters", as title of said box set would suggest.

John Boy, it's time you got your head out of the books, trade mags and off the internet for a while and started to enjoy music, rather then reading about what you 'should' be listening to.......and maybe, stop criticising other's for their personal preferences.