All posts with more than 3000 Hits, prior to 2008

Wed Sep 13, 2006 7:37 am

KiwiAlan- 'I'll never fall in love again', contender for worst recording?! No way . There are much worse, if you count the 60's sound tracks, and the extremely mediocre 'Three corn patches'

.......Oh you mean Elvis Prealey? Never heard of him :P

'Never again', although mediocre by the standards of what kind of songs he'd put out before, is one of my fave ballads by Elvis. Emotionally delivered, it almost brings a tear to the eye, and that awesome climax at the end, i just love it. 8)

Thu Sep 14, 2006 2:28 am

Mr. Songman can give I'll Never Fall In Love Again a run for its money any day for the worst song. It is a complete embarrassment in the King's catalogue.

Thu Sep 14, 2006 7:38 am

................. :shock:

Thu Sep 14, 2006 7:50 am

Scott Haigh 781990EP wrote:... and that awesome climax at the end, i just love it. 8)

Scott, aren't you supposed to be 21 before you can observe that?

Thu Sep 14, 2006 8:08 am

LMAO :lol:

Observe? You could be any age to observe some one else do it.........

..........I mean, hit the note Elvis hit. Yeah, thats what i meant! :lol: :lol: :lol:

Thu Sep 14, 2006 12:28 pm

drjohncarpenter wrote:
LesterB wrote:I have read Ernst Comments with great interest. Ref ILL NEVER FALL IN LOVE AGAIN - I cannot hear what Ernst is hearing? In the same way many peope find the taste of Blue Cheese wonderful while others actually find it OFFENSIVE??!! Who is right?

Using your analogy, that means because many people find the music of Justin Timberlake "wonderful while others find it OFFENSIVE??!!" we'll never be able to determine who is right.


It seems so unfair doesn't it? But that is reality. We can of course have an opinion. I do sympathise with you though.

But to be clear - are you saying that if I think ILL NEVER FALL IN LOVE AGAIN sounds good to me (albeit without the overdubbs) and that I do not agree with Ernsts opinion on Elvis' performance then I AM WRONG and YOU ARE RIGHT in your statement on Elvis' performance of the said song?

Fri Sep 15, 2006 2:33 am

LesterB wrote:
drjohncarpenter wrote:Using your analogy, that means because many people find the music of Justin Timberlake "wonderful while others find it OFFENSIVE??!!" we'll never be able to determine who is right.

It seems so unfair doesn't it? But that is reality.

No. Read carefully, this may be difficult to comprehend.

It is only "reality" to those who refuse to accept critical thought. Evidently, you are one of those people.

The point of my analogy -- which you neatly excised -- is that an intelligent, experienced music fan can make a distinction between worthy and crappy music. That is the key to how we appreciate and evaluate all art -- if there is no "good" or "bad" we might as well pack up and go home. Art has lost all meaning, and its power to influence.

LesterB wrote:... are you saying that if I think ILL NEVER FALL IN LOVE AGAIN sounds good to me (albeit without the overdubbs) and that I do not agree with Ernsts opinion on Elvis' performance then I AM WRONG and YOU ARE RIGHT in your statement on Elvis' performance of the said song?

No. Like what you want.

But your statement indicates you really haven't a clue about Elvis Presley's music, and I won't regard your thoughts on the subject very highly.

On the other hand, although I don't always agree with Ernst's writings, I respect his word. Why? Because he has proven himself over and over as a person with great knowledge and taste in regards to Elvis' music, history, popular culture, and music in general.

Hope this clears up your confusion.

I'm happy being a critical thinker, you be happy calling everything "just an opinion."

Fri Sep 15, 2006 4:03 am

Doctor wrote: The point of my analogy -- which you neatly excised -- is that an intelligent, experienced music fan can make a distinction between worthy and crappy music. That is the key to how we appreciate and evaluate all art -- if there is no "good" or "bad" we might as well pack up and go home. Art has lost all meaning, and its power to influence.


**********************************

The problem is that most music falls in between worthy and crappy.

Elvis even said, "I grew up on mediorce sh*t". That's the kind of stuff most people just plain like. Elvis also said on a few occasions that he wouldn't want everything to be a message. There is entertainment to be considered.

There is also the reason why most of us listen to or play music and that is simply, it is fun.

I appreciate a song like "in the ghetto", but a piece of fluff like "Girl Happy", hits the spot every now and then.

You can go ahead and be the critical thinker you are, but you are narrowing your scope and perspective in the mean time, while missing out on some very enjoyable mediocre sh*t.

Fri Sep 15, 2006 4:06 am

ekenee wrote: You can go ahead and be the critical thinker you are, but you are narrowing your scope and perspective in the mean time, while missing out on some very enjoyable mediocre sh*t.


So very true!!! :D



8)

Fri Sep 15, 2006 5:28 am

ekenee wrote:
You can go ahead and be the critical thinker you are, but you are narrowing your scope and perspective in the mean time, while missing out on some very enjoyable mediocre sh*t.


ahh...so succinct, and so spot on.
That'll get back.

Fri Sep 15, 2006 12:49 pm

Phew there is a lot here Doc but thank you for your encouraging words :D

Read carefully, this may be difficult to comprehend.


Let’s have a look at what you say below:

drjohncarpenter wrote: It is only "reality" to those who refuse to accept critical thought. Evidently, you are one of those people.


This was in reference to Justin Timberlake - some people find him wonderful while others find him offensive (ref blue cheese analogy). Well, it so happens that I find the music of Justin Timberlake offensive. It is BEYOND my comprehension how anyone could consider his music superior to Elvis let alone actually like the music of Justin Timberlake. But, regardless of my feelings on the subject, it still remains my opinion - which I believe to be right. If I am the source of all TRUTH regarding music (which I am not) then I could make a statement either way. So, surely, agreeing with critical thought is the only sane way forward – this is reality – however much I want my critical thought to be a fact. To sum up – you are right – I refuse to accept critical thought because it is not a fact or the TRUTH or reality. Agree and accept are different things in my understanding.

The point of my analogy -- which you neatly excised ( Lester’s note – it wasn’t to diminish your point or for my own ends – apologies) -- is that an intelligent, experienced music fan can make a distinction between worthy and crappy music. That is the key to how we appreciate and evaluate all art -- if there is no "good" or "bad" we might as well pack up and go home. Art has lost all meaning, and its power to influence.
???????? An individual’s opinion on a subject can “influence” tremendously. When it comes to music as being “good” or “bad” it is opinion based. If an intelligent and experienced music fan (presumably yourself) can make a statement that is irrefutably the truth then surely we would have, at the very least, health warnings issued on certain music. WARNING – JUSTIN TIMBERLAKES MUSIC IS BAD – LISTENING TO IT WILL SERIOUSLY DIMINISH YOUR INTELLECTUAL CAPACITY AND ABILITY TO MAKE JUDGEMENTS. I do agree that there is a lot of awful music about though – but that is all I can do – agree – have an opinion when it comes to music.

LesterB wrote:... are you saying that if I think ILL NEVER FALL IN LOVE AGAIN sounds good to me (albeit without the overdubs) and that I do not agree with Ernst’s opinion on Elvis' performance then I AM WRONG and YOU ARE RIGHT in your statement on Elvis' performance of the said song?

No. Like what you want.

But your statement indicates you really haven't a clue about Elvis Presley's music, and I won't regard your thoughts on the subject very highly.
- ok but please consider that I have been reading the message board for at least 4 years now and have read many of your posts and replies. Now, it so happens that I actually agree with, probably, 90% of your views regarding Elvis’ music. I admit I do not accept them as the truth or reality but I do agree with them.
Q So, if I am telling the truth about agreeing with your musical views for 90% of the time, does this still mean that liking Elvis’ performance of ILL NEVER FALL IN LOVE AGAIN is an indication that I have nt a clue about Elvis Presley’s music?

On the other hand, although I don't always agree with Ernst's writings, I respect his word. Why? Because he has proven himself over and over as a person with great knowledge and taste in regards to Elvis' music, history, popular culture, and music in general.


I think responding to the above statement would be premature in this particular posting.

I'm happy being a critical thinker, you be happy calling everything "just an opinion."


I have found, through personal actual experience, that when I refrain from insulting remarks or sarcasm then my INFLUENCE increases.
When I introduce insulting remarks and sarcasm to my communication with others then my influence diminishes. This is age old wisdom – not mine.

When I let go of the insane need to prove that I am right the end result is that my fellows take more note and consideration of what I say.

Doc – I do admire your energy to research and agree with most of your views on Elvis’ music. In that respect, in my opinion, I consider you a highly valued contributor to the message board.

Fri Sep 15, 2006 1:53 pm

midnightx wrote:Mr. Songman can give I'll Never Fall In Love Again a run for its money any day for the worst song. It is a complete embarrassment in the King's catalogue.


The difference is that Elvis gives a decent perfomance of a not so good song (Mr Songman). I´ll never fall in love again is a good song, but Elvis vocal is very strained here.//Björn

Fri Sep 15, 2006 10:24 pm

woodleyjohn wrote:
drjohncarpenter wrote:
deadringer wrote:Doc: there is NOTHING PATHETIC in I'll never fall in love again ...

Sure, just like there is NOTHING PATHETIC in your postings.

It also shows your inability yet again to accept another's view.

Wrong -- it shows my inability to accept stupidity on this MB. One can be part of the problem, or part of the solution -- you, yet again, choose the former.

Fri Sep 15, 2006 10:49 pm

Doc:because I wrote that there is NOTHING PATHETIC in I'll never fall in love again ... you wrote that my postings are pathetic etc...

You are simply an arrogant ******* and you showed this numerous times here, that's all.

Fri Sep 15, 2006 10:56 pm

deadringer wrote:Doc:because I wrote that there is NOTHING PATHETIC in I'll never fall in love again ... you wrote that my postings are pathetic etc...

It's quite clear I wrote "there is NOTHING PATHETIC in your postings" -- however, I appreciate your correction of my error.

Fri Sep 15, 2006 11:54 pm

Well Doc, don't play with the words. We both know the meaning of what you wrote.

Sat Sep 16, 2006 2:16 am

Well, to put it this way...I like "I'll Never Fall In Love Again" and "Mr. Songman" way more than I like this arrogant SOB named Dr. John Carpenter 8) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8)

Sat Sep 16, 2006 3:48 am

Deadringer wrote:--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Well Doc, don't play with the words. We both know the meaning of what you wrote.

**************************

It's not that he plays with words, it's that he sometimes forgets to take his dyslexia medication on time.

And reason he forgets is because he doesn't take his ginko.

Its a vicious circle.
Last edited by ekenee on Sat Sep 16, 2006 8:57 am, edited 1 time in total.

Sat Sep 16, 2006 6:38 am

I understand the misgivings, but what of songs like "Old McDonald" and "Yoga Is As Yoga Does"?

I concede that he is wobbly, etc. But there also is an under-current that some fans cannot get over the fact that he did not strictly hew to a Rolling Stone-approved agenda of rock and blues and other "authentic" music.

I prefer to welcome that Elvis had an open-doors attitude towards music and was not afraid to indulge so-called "middle of the road" ballads, that in reality often packed an emotional wallop.

That said, I concede that better material might have helped pull him out of his rut.

Reasonable people can disagree on this subject. It's all rather subjective.

ginko.

Sun Sep 17, 2006 1:34 am

ekenee: I have ginko biloba tree in my garden so if doc need this ... free of charge :-)))

Sun Sep 17, 2006 2:36 pm

I agree that there should be standards and that many standards are commonly accepted. But there has to be room for diversity of thought. There also should be some distinction between someone mounting a reasoned defense of a piece and someone just saying I like it. Not that there's anything wrong with just liking something or that you can't love something for no reason at all just that when you mount a reasoned defense your point has more legitimacy especially if you ground it in some sort of context. Grounding a solid defense of something that's been universally praised, condemned or ignored is kind of the essence of an overrated/underrated debate.

Even with standards though and a reasonable critical analysis a lot still comes down to personal taste. Running through Leonard Maltin's most recent guide, I noticed that certain recent critic's darlings like "Memento" received mediocre reviews. Even more when you read the reviews, you see that many of the reasons that Maltin condemns the piece are the reasons other critics face it. So, while I definitely agree with establishing standards there has to be some flexibility.

Greil Marcus once wrote a review of Elvis Golden Records Vol.4. Mr Marcus, one of the most analytical and deepest thinkers in all of music criticism and certainly a figure with great breadth of pop knowledge, told us there was not a single interesting song on the record. This record happened to contain "It Hurts Me". Food for thought.

Sun Sep 17, 2006 2:52 pm

deadringer wrote:Doc:because I wrote that there is NOTHING PATHETIC in I'll never fall in love again ... you wrote that my postings are pathetic etc...

You are simply an arrogant ******* and you showed this numerous times here, that's all.


I must agree.

I wont be so harsh in my comment about the Doc. He does seem to know his stuff but he could do with a few lessons in manners and politeness.

re

Sun Sep 17, 2006 3:27 pm

i read somewhere Lamar Fike disadvised EP to record the good song "Mister Songman", i don t know if it s true but i can imagine the MMM telling EP "hey E, you ain t gonna sing that song on stage ? " ;
Now, I just hope i am wrong about that :?

Sun Sep 17, 2006 4:01 pm

likethebike wrote:I agree that there should be standards and that many standards are commonly accepted. But there has to be room for diversity of thought. There also should be some distinction between someone mounting a reasoned defense of a piece and someone just saying I like it. Not that there's anything wrong with just liking something or that you can't love something for no reason at all just that when you mount a reasoned defense your point has more legitimacy especially if you ground it in some sort of context. Grounding a solid defense of something that's been universally praised, condemned or ignored is kind of the essence of an overrated/underrated debate.

Even with standards though and a reasonable critical analysis a lot still comes down to personal taste. Running through Leonard Maltin's most recent guide, I noticed that certain recent critic's darlings like "Memento" received mediocre reviews. Even more when you read the reviews, you see that many of the reasons that Maltin condemns the piece are the reasons other critics face it. So, while I definitely agree with establishing standards there has to be some flexibility.

Greil Marcus once wrote a review of Elvis Golden Records Vol.4. Mr Marcus, one of the most analytical and deepest thinkers in all of music criticism and certainly a figure with great breadth of pop knowledge, told us there was not a single interesting song on the record. This record happened to contain "It Hurts Me". Food for thought.
He also wrote (2003?) that Elvis was publically percieved to be a joke.....wasn't that long ago. (BTW, couldn't agree LESS)

Mon Sep 18, 2006 1:34 am

likethebike wrote:Greil Marcus once wrote a review of Elvis Golden Records Vol.4. Mr Marcus, one of the most analytical and deepest thinkers in all of music criticism and certainly a figure with great breadth of pop knowledge, told us there was not a single interesting song on the record. This record happened to contain "It Hurts Me". Food for thought.

It wasn't a review, it was a footnoted comment in "Mystery Train" (1975). Greil was drawing a broader conclusion about Elvis' decline in the mid-sixties. In comparison to Goldens 1-3, he was right.

Larry Dickman wrote:He also wrote (2003?) that Elvis was publically percieved to be a joke.....wasn't that long ago. (BTW, couldn't agree LESS)

Where did Marcus write this? When? Don't "quote" someone if you're really just pulling it out of your rear, you waste everyone's time.