All posts with more than 3000 Hits, prior to 2008

Tue Sep 19, 2006 10:53 pm

Thanks for telling us the day it happened Doc.

Most of us are as stupid as clowns as you claimed in a previous post. :wink:

Tue Sep 19, 2006 11:42 pm

I'm glad that there is still a little bit of mystery attached to this session. This, coupled with the resulting detective work, makes it all the more fascinating.

In Hans Langbroek's book, The Hillbilly Cat, which I received in July 1970, he has an account of the occasion and dates it as 1957, as the photos "appear(ed) in a magazine in the United States in May 1957".

We have certainly learned (and heard) a lot in the last 36 years, but I hope there will always be that element of mystery and intrigue relating to the events of 4th December 1956 at 706 Union.

Steve Morse

Wed Sep 20, 2006 2:37 am

Doc, doesn't what appears to be JC's account put things in a different light ?

Wed Sep 20, 2006 2:52 am

http://phobos.apple.com/WebObjects/MZSt ... 8&s=143441

Wed Sep 20, 2006 4:45 am

The sound on "Reconsider Baby" is a major improvement. While Elvis is still barely audible in the second half the song, he is now very audible at the beginning.

I think there are several reasons Cash could have been in on the jam session and that portion of the jam was lost or never recorded. First of all the songs that were written about in the newspaper have never been on any version of the session. These were specific titles. Secondly, the jam session is already under way when this new CD starts. Then there is a important audio evidence to suggest that Cash may have been off-mike as he claimed on at least part of the session. About ten songs into the proceedings a gruff unidentified voice (maybe Smokey Joe Baugh) says to Elvis and the guys: "You oughta get up a quartet." Now of course there were more than three people in the studio but it would seem to be an odd comment to Elvis, Jerry Lee, Perkins and say a member of Perkins' band. Jerry Lee wasn't much of a name at the time but was thought of highly enough in Memphis that he was ranked with Perkins, Presley and Cash. Not long after the comment you can hear Elvis say "goodbye" to someone. A song or two after that Elvis' girlfriend calls them a "Rover Boys Trio" which is a change after the goodbye. Since for so many years we've lived with an incorrect song order with omissions, it's possible that there was other stuff that was lost or not recorded.

The main flaw with the idea that Cash was off-mike is that there are several people in the room and we hear some of them. Also, no one seems to address him directly except perhaps Elvis' goodbye.

I was a little disappointed with the overall package. The sound was great and that is the most important thing. However, Colin Escott's notes were rather flimsy and not nearly as informative as his 1990 annotation. At least something should have been written detailing the differences between this and the previous release or even a history of the myth of the event. This is especially important as many fans might be buying this for the first time as it is a BMG release. This also would have been a great opportunity to haul all the pictures from the session and it wasn't taken. It's a solid release but material this important deserves more inspired packaging.

Wed Sep 20, 2006 5:54 am

I was a little disappointed with the overall package. The sound was great and that is the most important thing. However, Colin Escott's notes were rather flimsy and not nearly as informative as his 1990 annotation. At least something should have been written detailing the differences between this and the previous release or even a history of the myth of the event. This is especially important as many fans might be buying this for the first time as it is a BMG release. This also would have been a great opportunity to haul all the pictures from the session and it wasn't taken. It's a solid release but material this important deserves more inspired packaging.


LTB, well said. Escott's liner notes have had the "flimsy" approach for quite some time. Can you imagine what Legacy or Chronicles would have done with the packaging and liner notes?

Wed Sep 20, 2006 6:21 am

You have not heard this session unless you get this new disc. The other releases I played once. This one I have already played twice. Most of it sounds like they are in the room with you. Fantastic sound!

Wed Sep 20, 2006 7:35 am

Steve_M wrote:Doc, doesn't what appears to be JC's account put things in a different light ?

No. All it shows is that Johnny was human -- he is not on the recordings we have of the MDQ session -- something he admitted himself many times.

Wed Sep 20, 2006 12:15 pm

drjohncarpenter wrote:
Steve_M wrote:Doc, doesn't what appears to be JC's account put things in a different light ?

No. All it shows is that Johnny was human -- he is not on the recordings we have of the MDQ session -- something he admitted himself many times.


But that's a seperate issue. i can accept for now that the evidence points to Johnny not being on the releases of the MDQ in its various guises over the years, but I'm referring to the whole session.

Bob Johnson (was that the guy?) seems to have heard different songs and also this releates to when the photos were taken. The songs released since then dont appear to reflect that part of that day, so Cash's comments both about being there participating and not being on the release of the MDQ could still be true when taking the above mentioned by LTB.

the complete

Wed Sep 20, 2006 1:06 pm

... Underneath the famous photo, of all 4, the caption, in one of the

Memphis newspapers, back in 56, mentioned the quartet singing

Blueberry Hill... Even an old guy like reporter Robert Johnson would

have been able to recognize this particular song. Is it featured on

the new release? If it is, sorry for waisting your time... Im losing

track on all these Elvis releases nowdays... Gawd bring back the

old release policy of 3 "new"albums a year! Maybe fans will have

a chance to listen to the music once again, instead of piling them

up, and having rushed thru them, partly, cause another new

release is just around the corner!

Wed Sep 20, 2006 1:43 pm

likethebike wrote:I was a little disappointed with the overall package. The sound was great and that is the most important thing. However, Colin Escott's notes were rather flimsy and not nearly as informative as his 1990 annotation. At least something should have been written detailing the differences between this and the previous release or even a history of the myth of the event. This is especially important as many fans might be buying this for the first time as it is a BMG release. This also would have been a great opportunity to haul all the pictures from the session and it wasn't taken. It's a solid release but material this important deserves more inspired packaging.


No wonder people are trading cheap CD-R's instead of buying the real thing these days...

Glad to hear the sound is improved, though!

Keith Richards, Jr.

Re: the complete

Wed Sep 20, 2006 2:10 pm

Tallhair AKA Ger Rijff wrote:... Underneath the famous photo, of all 4, the caption, in one of the Memphis newspapers, back in 56, mentioned the quartet singing Blueberry Hill... Even an old guy like reporter Robert Johnson would have been able to recognize this particular song. Is it featured on the new release?


The song is not on the CD.

Track listing

http://www.elvis.com.au/presley/cd/cd_t ... rtet.shtml

Also this is from the JRC fan quote I put earlier. "... A Memphis news reporter named Robert Johnson who was at the "session" reported that Johnny Cash DID sing on two numbers while he was there - BLUEBERRY HILL and ISLE OF GOLDEN DREAMS which I don't know were even recorded as they've never been found."

Wed Sep 20, 2006 2:26 pm

Keith Richards, Jr. wrote:No wonder people are trading cheap CD-R's instead of buying the real thing these days...


Yes, cheap CD-Rs will always be good enough for people who are too selfish and shortsighted to support painstaking tape research and restoration.

On the other hand, there are plenty of people out there (on this site, in fact) eager to scan covers, liner notes and photos so others won't have to suffer the indignity of actually paying for the music.

I don't see that more packaging offers much protection in such a moral vacuum.

In fact, doing things on the cheap is the way to go when profit margins are cut thinner and thinner.

Let's face it, this disc doesn't stand to make much money. It's amazing to me that it got a major-label release. Plumping it up with more extras was only going to further narrow the razor-thin profit potential.

Let's just be glad -- very glad -- for what we have. It's wonderful.

Wed Sep 20, 2006 2:35 pm

Thanks for the early heads up guys. Looking forward to the UK release!!!

Wed Sep 20, 2006 6:17 pm

Elvissessions.com quote:

On the other hand, there are plenty of people out there (on this site, in fact) eager to scan covers, liner notes and photos so others won't have to suffer the indignity of actually paying for the music.

Part of the problem is that Elvis collecting is expensive and as Mr. Tallhair pointed out, there are so many releases. Collectors are like addicts and they will get their Elvis fix any way possible. Please note that I agree with you, I am only pointing out the why. I don't collect cd-r's of bmg material, so I will be purchasing this.

I don't see that more packaging offers much protection in such a moral vacuum.

[b]Actually you mistaken here. I know you were referring to this release, but the concept is the same when I give my explanation. As stated above, I don't collect cd-r's of bmg material but in the case of certain boots I do. I buy lots of Elvis cd's and dvd's. I generally like to own the real thing. But if a boot comes out with a horrible cover and no liner notes I will usually find the cd-r. And if a boot comes out that has the term, "improved quality", which I am suspect about, and I already own the previous issue, I will get the cd-r. It doesn't happen alot but it happens. But if something comes out and has a nice package, I will always get the real thing. . [/b]

PS. Just to make my point further, I can never see how anyone would want a cd-r of any of the 7 inch format special edition albums with booklets. Those are just so cool.

Another thing to consider is that there are people on this board capible of creating their own covers that are twice as attractive as the official ones in under an hour.

Wed Sep 20, 2006 10:13 pm

What a few hardcore collectors will do for a fancy pop-up package or a rare photo is not indicative of the market as a whole.

Let's not focus exclusively on Elvis' catalog because we always get hung up on allegations of mismanagement.

And let's not confine ourselves to illegal downloads, let's look at what people are willing to pay for.

CD sales of all sorts continue their inexorable decline while digital downloads are skyrocketing. In fact, the trend line actually is accellerating.

Normally with a new technology you expect rapid percentage growth as the market goes from zero to 1 to 2 to 4 users but you expect it to slow down as each new user represents a smaller percentage of the whole.

However, the trend line for downloads is getting closer and closer to vertical as the market completely transforms itself.

Now, I realize this sounds like a digression, but my point is simple: Millions of people are LEGALLY downloading hundreds of millions of albums every year without the benefit of a single scrap of packaging.

Human nature being what it is, it's obvious that people will cheerfully cut even more corners if the cost to them will be zero instead of, say $9.99.

Yes, there will always be those of us who want the stuffed jewel case, just as there are still passionate vinyl collectors.

But the fact is that most people don't give a damn, and the number who do will continue to decline as we go through a generational change that is likely to all but annihilate traditional media formats.
Last edited by elvissessions on Thu Sep 21, 2006 3:23 am, edited 1 time in total.

Thu Sep 21, 2006 2:02 am

I think the people who buy this release are the people who want a little packaging. I don't know exactly if the profit margin here is razor thin. Let's remembering the label is not paying a dime in performer royalties or music production costs. Probably next to nothing on promotion as well. I don't know what sound restoration costs but it doesn't match creating a new album. If tiny labels like ACE can give us a first class package why can't BMG?

The sound is fine. I give them credit for it. I give them credit for releasing it. However, it deserves a classier presentation than what it's gotten.

It's interesting though in that had this been given a major commercial release in say 1980 it would have probably been a #1 hit based solely on novelty interest even though it was just a jam session. Today, though the marquee value of Lewis and Perkins has dwindled considerably and sadly we can't hear Cash. I really think that with proper marketing, RCA could have gotten at least a chart placing out of this album even in 1990. Sadly, I and many others found out about that release when we saw it in the stores.

Thu Sep 21, 2006 2:53 am

likethebike wrote:I don't know what sound restoration costs but it doesn't match creating a new album.

I can tell you now that even Kevan Budd doesn't have an Original copy of the new CD yet, and he restored it!

There are some fans who aren't interested in money, they do it for love, just doing what they do well to get the best they can, out to the fans! Kevan and Sebastian are two of these fans!

I am another of these fans!
Last edited by Keith F on Thu Sep 21, 2006 3:02 am, edited 1 time in total.

Thu Sep 21, 2006 3:02 am

Elvissessions.com: Quote:

Now, I realize this sounds like a digession, but my point is simple: Millions of people are LEGALLY downloading hundreds of millions of albums every year without the benefit of a single scrap of packaging.

Again I basically agree on every thing you wrote. In reference to what you wrote yes they don't care about the packaging because they are more than likely making homemade covers themselves. I have a feeling that us Elvis fanatics are a different breed than your general music buyer so, bare in mind my comments or in reference and are aimed at those that read this messageboard which happen to be Elvis collectors.

Human nature being what it is, it's obvious that people will cheerfully cut even more corners if the cost to them will be zero instead of, say $9.99.

Yes, there will always be those of us who want the stuffed jewel case, just as there are still passionate vinyl collectors.

But the fact is that most people don't give a damn, and the number who do will continue to decline as we go through a generational change that is likely to all but annihilate traditional media formats.

Agreed
Last edited by ekenee on Thu Sep 21, 2006 3:42 am, edited 1 time in total.

Thu Sep 21, 2006 3:23 am

This arguement always amazes me regarding original CD's :roll:

How do you think Kevan and Sebastian restore these sessions to begin with? They aren't from original CD's, they are from Digital copies of the original tapes!

How many of you that only buy original CD's (and not CDR's) can say that they wouldn't like to own the original Digital copy of the session tape or soundboard, of the CD they are buying? Most of you would be horrified at what goes on Restoring the original tapes! "Madison" do a good job (audio) but they butcher the original recordings, and none of you realise!

I've got to be honest, I laugh at all of you who have to have every original CD, because I know what you're missing, just because you have to own the properly pressed CD'!

Thu Sep 21, 2006 3:40 am

What was the source tape for this release? Was it Sam's original source reel? Or was it a copy tape given to Elvis etc...

Thu Sep 21, 2006 3:46 am

Apparently it is a copy found at Graceland. I posed this earlier as well.
Did Ernst attempt to locate Sam's Original tape? I think this really needs to be addressed. In 10 years in will magically appear and viola!, another re-issue.

Thu Sep 21, 2006 4:45 am

Keith F wrote:I've got to be honest, I laugh at all of you who have to have every original CD, because I know what you're missing, just because you have to own the properly pressed CD'!


The argument for buying the CDs isn't a quality issue; I think we all understand you can get a bit-for-bit duplicate that will sound just as good.

The point is that if we expect more material to be restored and released, somebody has to pay the freight.

It certainly isn't going to be the casual, occasional listener, who won't understand or appreciate or care about the difference between any of the various Million Dollar discs -- or any other Elvis albums.

This material means the most to us, the diehard fans, and we should expect and be willing to pay for the ongoing development of Elvis' recorded legacy.

It makes me sad and angry that people will do anything they can to dodge paying for this CD, which can be purchased legally for less than $9.50.

An Elvis fan who won't pay $9.50 to hear this beautifully restored disc perhaps should rethink what it takes and means to be a fan.
Last edited by elvissessions on Thu Sep 21, 2006 8:09 am, edited 1 time in total.

Thu Sep 21, 2006 7:41 am

Keith F wrote:Most of you would be horrified at what goes on Restoring the original tapes! "Madison" do a good job (audio) but they butcher the original recordings, and none of you realise!

But we'll always have you, Keith, to tell us how "bad" a great disc like Let It Roll or Totally Stung sounds ...

Keith F wrote:I've got to be honest, I laugh at all of you who have to have every original CD, because I know what you're missing, just because you have to own the properly pressed CD'!

He who laughs last didn't get the joke.

Thu Sep 21, 2006 9:49 am

Has anybody listened to the tape Johnny Cash had of the event? He obviously was better heard on that one.