All posts with more than 3000 Hits, prior to 2008

Tue Aug 15, 2006 5:03 am

Hi Steve-Awesome work

Just one query i have the original ttwii cd digital remaster from the 1990's and Patch It Up is the full version including when Elvis says's sing it Charlie as edited out by Schmidlin.So it does exist on cd sound.

Also ref I jUst Cant Help Believing before Patch It Up--in the original film that segment is also covered from a different angle/camera was filming from behind the sweets as he does that bit.

Tue Aug 15, 2006 11:54 am

Gerry - that version of IJCHB has never been released has it ?

It was the Aug 11th version that was used in the original film - and we all know how much was used in the SE.

Whats the running time on your TTWII CD release for this song ?

What it shows is that Elvis gave it a lot more on some songs than what we're led to see and where I used to think he looked overly shattered at the end of some performances I'm now thinking differently.

Tue Aug 15, 2006 2:14 pm

Hi Steve,

So that's a different version of IJCHB so he did that Karate Stance bit in that version too-cool.

I'll check the running time-but i must say that my cd has the same mix as what was on the vinyl and it's ten times better and has much more punch than TTWII 3 cd set.

Damn what they continue to do to the kings music.

Tue Aug 15, 2006 7:44 pm

It's the wierdest thing out.

The Aug 12th CD which was supposed to be the complete concert had two bits of Patch It Up missing, an extra bit of Suspicious Minds dubbed in for no apparent reason and the audience walk through totally omitted.

Hows that for a "complete" concert ???????

and Gerry, that's notwithstanding the stuff you mention that just gets clean left out of the mix.

Was the "gong" included at the end of the CD version of IJCHB ?

Wed Aug 16, 2006 1:01 am

Yeah Elvis does a cool Karate Chop ending to that loud Gong--no one has seen it since the original movie.

As for the gong on my audio track-they have faded it out before the gong at the end--damn

And Patch it up is 4 minutes and 04 seconds long.

Here it is--i packed in in a rar file as it's dvd audio:-

http://www.yousendit.com/transfer.php?a ... 8356008097

Wed Aug 16, 2006 1:03 am

Incredible, as always Steve!

Wed Aug 16, 2006 1:28 am

Steve,

A little late, I know, but thank you very much for the "Patch It Up" clip! I enjoyed watching it and I have some idea of the amount of work that must have gone into it. How many 'tape' sources/camera angles did you have to work with?

I'd like to suggest a slightly different approach for future work, if I may. Instead of moving the sources around on the screen so frequently as you did on this one, I think it would be beneficial for the viewer and a time saver for you if you simply assign a section of the screen to each camera angle/tape source and leave black space when that source runs out. I think this could be very succesful with up to six or eight sources (but probably not more). What do you think?

Steve_M wrote:The Aug 12th CD which was supposed to be the complete concert had two bits of Patch It Up missing, an extra bit of Suspicious Minds dubbed in for no apparent reason and the audience walk through totally omitted.

Hows that for a "complete" concert ???????


Could you please elaborate on these missing "bits"? How long are they and what do they contain? And what source do you have to verify which recording is accurate?

Wed Aug 16, 2006 2:22 am

It doesn't work Peter, especially where there's only one angle or two - too much blank space.

but on the positive side making it have a very fast paced look about it and moving things around means that's what you do as a viewer and you never seem to watch it the same way twice because your eye picks another angle next time around at different points so its like seeing it afresh each time.

Sources for the missing info ?

Well the footage is one source and the CD release is the other - the two dont match.
We know there's no audience walk around part on the CD but we know we have the footage of it.

Suspicious Minds is complete in footage but the ending with the Tutt drum roll has a piece dubbed in again when it was never played that way originally but appears on the CD. synch them up and play them - at the end the Cd goes out of synch because it repeats a part.

See my first post on this thread about the missing parts of Patch It Up and where and whnn the CD release misses two parts out of it. The image i used to display the wave track was taken from the CD release.

Wed Aug 16, 2006 2:29 am

Suspicious Minds is complete in footage but the ending with the Tutt drum roll has a piece dubbed in again when it was never played that way originally but appears on the CD. synch them up and play them - at the end the Cd goes out of synch because it repeats a part.


Are we talking about the performance from the midnight show, august 12..??

The footage is almost complete (beginning is missing) and the audio from TTWII-se 3 disc set fits perfectly...

Wed Aug 16, 2006 2:28 pm

No it doesn't. Ask Merry77 as well, he found out the same thing.

I'll try and put both up on here side by side in a clip and play one sound source through the left channel and the other through the right.

You need to have the complete footage as well and not the editted version as released because they added a bit in to that to match. You need the original footage.

Wed Aug 16, 2006 3:07 pm

Steve,

Thanks for your post. I think we're getting a few mix-ups here, or perhaps I'm simply misinterpreting what's being discussed. So: "bear with me, we'll all bear together..."

Following your suggestion, I imported your clip into Windows Movie Maker (not the most versatile software, I know, but it's all I've got), muted the sound you put in, and synched up an MP3 of the song from CD1 of the 2000 version of the original album (the three disc set). It matches your clip almost perfectly. I say 'almost' because it goes slightly (say, half a second) out of synch with the picture at roughly 1:40 into your clip, and synchs back up at roughly 2:30 -- right when the SE footage disappears. It stays in synch after that. The running time on that audio track is 4:00. (As a side note, this is listed incorrectly in the booklet as 3:51.)

Your other comments confuses as well: "The Aug 12th CD which was supposed to be the complete concert had two bits of Patch It Up missing, an extra bit of Suspicious Minds dubbed in for no apparent reason and the audience walk through totally omitted." The omission of the audience walk through I understand, the "Suspicious Minds" bit we'll look into later, but Elvis didn't perform "Patch It Up" at the midnight show (MS) of August 12, which is the show on disc two of the "Special Edition" from 2000. The version on disc one (described above) is from the dinner show (DS) of this day, which, as I said, does synch up. Do you have the ‘complete’ August 12 DS on a bootleg, then?

The version seen in the original film is also from the August 12 DS (as evidenced by its entry in Hanna & Jorgenson's The Way It Was), which runs for 3:29 according to the titles index – my own ‘stopwatch timing’ of it runs at 3:07 (that chapter length also includes the man talking about why Elvis was controversial), with the “Sing it, Charlie!” line coming in at 1:33. This means that footage was removed from the beginning of the song in the original film, since he actually says it at 2:20 on the complete ‘disc one version.’

The version of "I Just Can't Help Believin'" as heard on the original album (and on disc one of the "Special Edition") was recorded at the dinner show from August 11 (which we don't have in its entirety on CD; we do have the complete midnight show on the Live in Las Vegas four disc set) and therefore shouldn't be identical to the version seen in your clip anyway. The version on disc one (dinner show, August 11) runs for 4:40.

So, in short:

- “Patch It Up” is incomplete in the original film, with roughly fifty seconds missing from the first half of the song.
- “Patch It Up” is complete on the original album, as evidenced by GERRY’s information.
- “Patch It Up” is incomplete on the “Special Edition” DVD, as evidenced by your clip, with footage missing from the second half of the song.
- “Patch It Up” is complete on the “Special Edition” three disc set from 2000.

I suppose that means that you can probably make a complete audio-visual presentation of “Patch It Up” compiling footage from the original DVD, the new DVD (and bootlegs, necessary for the parts you timed at 2:26-3:16 and 3:44-4:01 in your first post), and audio from either copies of the original album.

… right?

Wed Aug 16, 2006 3:48 pm

sorry Peter, that's what happens when threads get hijacked off on a tangent - not that I object to that at all as thats a reflection of how any discussion develops.

The comments on different CD versions to film should be as you hinted at - just the Suspicious Minds and the audience walk as far as the TTWII 3CD release goes, the Patch It Up concerned is from the DS as mentioned in my thread title. so ignore the PIU ref to the "complete concert" I made above, only Sus minds which is more complete and the audience walk are related to that.

The mix up comes when I began the thread with look what gets left out of the film and then it turned around a bit with look what they change on CD releases. It was originally to show what was left out of the film and also my mentioning of Elvis looking shattered at the end of some songs when he didn't seem to exert himself too much. turns out he did just that we dont get to see it all.

Not sure about what you are saying about the IJCHB clip at the begining. Ignore releases of it, my comments were strictly about us not having seen this version yet, though I think from that camera angle that that's all there is anyway. I'm sure other cameras were rolling as evidenced by the amount the filmed PIU.

So, we're up to Suspicious Minds then. It baffles me why they did what they did because it seems so trivial.

I think I made this clip of multiangles so if you want to cue it up somewhere near the end with the CD please do so.

Just a technical note about speeds going slightly out. The DVD versions may have been done to NTSC and then converted from or to a PAL format. Tyhe runing time can be one frame per second out or every other second due to this conversion. The audio is redone in order to match the footage as opposed to the other way around so the audio spedd is deliberately out for that reason.
sometimes i can't be arsed to change it or to be fussy enough as most people dont notice it but you would do if you're synching it to an original CD.

Here's the Sus Minds clip (forgive one tiny clip of three at once near the end being placed in the wrong time frame): Suspicious Minds aug 12th 1970 MS

I just previed the post and the link works okay, but some folks have a problem with accessing clips I've placed in that directory. Just holler if you do.

Wed Aug 16, 2006 6:30 pm

No need to apologize, Steve. It just took me a while to get my bearings right. "But we got plenty of tape..." :wink:

I think we're on the same page now as far as "Patch It Up" is concerned. It was just your comment that the August 12 MS version was incomplete, which baffled me since I didn't have a MS version! I also understand what you mean about when you "turned around a bit."

Steve_M wrote:Not sure about what you are saying about the IJCHB clip at the begining. Ignore releases of it, my comments were strictly about us not having seen this version yet, though I think from that camera angle that that's all there is anyway. I'm sure other cameras were rolling as evidenced by the amount the filmed PIU.


My comments were in reference to a supposedly absent "gong," which you were discussing earlier. My point was that your clip included the very end of his August 12 DS version, while the version on the album is from August 11 DS. So comparing the two is only useful when comparing performances, not sound quality or gong-edits (as GERRY was doing a few posts down).

Anyway, I did as you suggested and synched an MP3 of the performance of "Suspicious Minds" with the footage you provided in the clip. I see what you mean now: it all matches except at the very end, when Elvis does his shoulder-thing to the drumming; the drumming segment is longer on the CD! However, I don't believe that the CD is edited. With all due respect for the work you've done (and I love it, keep it up!), it's a bit muddy in your clip because the two angles are running at different speeds and don't align completely. Furthermore, you cut from three to two sources in the middle of the drumming, which doesn't make for conclusive evidence. For this reason I would suggest that it is the video that is incomplete, and not the audio that's been extended. Plus, it would be such a strange thing to do!

Wed Aug 16, 2006 8:50 pm

Steve_M wrote;
No it doesn't. Ask Merry77 as well, he found out the same thing.

I'll try and put both up on here side by side in a clip and play one sound source through the left channel and the other through the right.

You need to have the complete footage as well and not the editted version as released because they added a bit in to that to match. You need the original footage.


I'll have to disagree here, for I got it perfectly matched and I don't think it is doctored on the CD release or in the footage. I am talking about the outtake foottage and don't know what they did in the original film.

I will try to post it somewhere tommorow, and let you know or give you a link or something......

Thu Aug 17, 2006 3:04 am

Hans, Pete agrees with me based upon my clip, but i will try and find a better way to show it. The clip was an old one i made last year.

Pete is saying that my clip could be wrong and not the CD, but I had the whole sound from the MGM fotoage and it was shorter. i used the sound from the CD because it was better and that's when I discovered it was longer in length on my softwares timeline than the footage sound timeline length.

If you go to my first post on this thread and look at a part of the screen capture i used that shows my softwares timlines you'll see what I'm using to describe it.
My software is a 48 track multi audio and footage system, meaning i can symoultaneously have 48 different things lined up at any one time whether thay are all video or all audio or a mix of the two plus other features.

Peter, was the gong a dubbed thing originally - they had a gong according to Kathy Westmoreland for this engagement, but in the original film it seemed to be placed over a an edit that went from the stage shot to somewhere else (i can't recall now).
I also have lost track of what it is that's been released on what. I took everything from the original film that I'd transfered to DVD, everythng from Lost Performances where I'd done the same, everything from the SE and everything from the outtakes and put them all together and sorted everything out into chronological order. i have no idea on what original release certain bits were or weren't anymore. It's all become just one huge release to me now.

Thu Aug 17, 2006 3:29 am

Sometimes things do not match up (digital clock) or stretched or the opposite and there is nothing added or taken but slight speed.

Thu Aug 17, 2006 3:30 am

Hi Steve,

I found this version of Patch It Up it has all the extra bits in it

Tell me what you think

Tutt is a monster.

http://www.yousendit.com/transfer.php?a ... 634A998CDA

Thu Aug 17, 2006 4:04 am

Well. I don't think there's an extra bit dubbed in to Susisciuous Minds on the TTWII-se cd, and the footaage from the outtakes matches the cd releaese.

I will find a way to post my Suspicious Minds somewhehe and let you see. And I think that if you take the audio from the original Patch it Up that it will fit to the footage. I have been working with this stuff over a year now, and that's what is on the ftd's or the bmg-releaeses fit's better than you believe.
Last edited by Hans on Thu Aug 17, 2006 3:09 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Thu Aug 17, 2006 4:14 am

I can't comment on the FTD release, not sure where you've come in with that or why.

I was referring to the BMG 3 CD set release of TTWII.

Perhaps your copy has the audience walk in it as well, considering it was a "complete concert" that was released. :wink:

Thu Aug 17, 2006 12:35 pm

GERRY wrote:Hi Steve,

I found this version of Patch It Up it has all the extra bits in it

Tell me what you think

Tutt is a monster.

http://www.yousendit.com/transfer.php?a ... 634A998CDA


GERRY,

Where did that MP3 come from? It's clearly the August 12 DS version, but the mix is quite different. The horns are way up-front, louder than Elvis even -- it's the horns, and then there's everything else! James Burton is also mixed into the background; when his solo starts, you really have to listen for it! In short, it all sounds quite different from the version heard on the 2000 three-disc print of That's the Way It Is.

By the way, your MP3 runs for 4:03, whereas the 2000 edit runs for 4:00. However, my own quick analysis points to the fact that your MP3 just contains more silence at the end. In other words, both version are complete.

Hans,

The topic of discussion are the August 12 dinner show version of "Patch It Up" and the August 12 midnight show version of "Suspicious Minds." These were both released on BMG's That's the Way It Is Special Edition three-disc set in 2000 (on disc one and two, respectively). So no FTDs are involved here. (FTD's stunning One Night in Vegas has the August 10 show from this engagement.) So perhaps the confusion comes from the fact that you're synching different audio with different video than Steve_M is?

Thu Aug 17, 2006 3:08 pm

You are right Peter; makes no sense...
Last edited by Hans on Sat Aug 19, 2006 1:26 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Thu Aug 17, 2006 4:47 pm

here is I Just Cant Help Believing with Gong ending hi fi sound:-


http://www.yousendit.com/transfer.php?a ... A66838B2F0
Last edited by GERRY on Thu Aug 17, 2006 5:36 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Thu Aug 17, 2006 5:07 pm

Here is "Polk Sallad Rehearsal" shrunk from dvd i have--hi fi sound.


http://www.yousendit.com/transfer.php?a ... AF6287980F

Thu Aug 17, 2006 5:22 pm

Patch it up--Complete aug 12th ds--hi fi sound--no edits


http://www.yousendit.com/transfer.php?a ... 375A5D3509

Thu Aug 17, 2006 7:38 pm

Here is "patch it up" not so shrunk so better quality.

http://www.yousendit.com/transfer.php?a ... 936A13E3DB