All posts with more than 3000 Hits, prior to 2008

Sat Jul 15, 2006 12:35 pm

drjohncarpenter wrote:
sam wrote:I love you to Doc.

8,300+ posts and you can't even compose a coherent sentence.




Oh well it was a lie anyway!!!

I don't think anyone could!!!!

Besides how could one type coherently when they are puking at the thought of what they are typing!!!! :lol: :lol:


:P

:oops:

:lol:

Sat Jul 15, 2006 1:09 pm

Scatter wrote:........he was NOT using it as a platform in the way he did Aloha IMO.[/color]


That ties in with what you said before. What was this great platform?

Beyond wearing the suit as a declaration of his patriotism, in what way was Aloha...

"a truer representation of who Elvis really was as a person (purposely, and on multiple levels) than any other performance he ever gave"


I'm not being argumentative here, but I'm not sure what you mean by that. Isn't Aloha similar to countless other shows of the time, but just more regimented? I think that rather than being the truest representation of the man, the restrictions of a worldwide telecast and precise schedule actually prevent us seeing him as natural and relaxed as he was in a normal performance. A more accurate representation of the man is seen in regular shows, where he could freely interact with the audience and display his natural wit and charm.

Sat Jul 15, 2006 1:29 pm

Hi TJ!!!

I simply meant that in the context of his TV vehicles, he was most personally revelatory in Aloha.

In the '68 Special, it was much more tightly scripted than any concert......there were vignettes (how much did the whorehouse scene, the carnival scene, the nightclub scene etc reflected Elvis himself??). He wasn't involved in costuming, in the silly dance sequences, the corny vignettes. He folowed a script that was the concept of others.

In EIC.........well, what can be said there??

In Aloha, the costume was chosen to send a message about him personally(patriotism, gratitude).
The reason for the benefit (Kui Lee Cancer Fund)displayed something about him personally ( his generosity, his care and concern for others, his desire to share his success).
The song selection was his from top to bottom, not chosen by scriptwriters and producers.And those songs were a deeply personal reflection of who he was, where he came from, and where he was headed (to the dismay of many here, BTW).

And as I recall, there was indeed some rather wet horseplay around the piano even in Aloha, so the regular gigs had no monopoly there.

Everything in Aloha was crafted purposely to reflect himself........

As I said before, if regular concerts were done with personal revelation in mind, I dread to think what the "Gypsy" suit was meant to convey :lol: :lol:

Sat Jul 15, 2006 4:29 pm

Aloha was a live telecast and although it had plenty of pre production and post production... at the end it was the live show that was going to make it or break it. Very silly to compare with 68 special with more than 40 hrs of video tape and 4 mini concerts filmed and edit to one great hour. Listen to Elvis on the 74 Thompson tape. A 1973 _68 type special_would have been even greater because Elvis' voice was not ripped to shreads as often heard on the 68 outtakes. Not to mention the insecurities(although they did help in 68 where Elvis was a master of self deprication to his benefit showing humility etc..he was a great actor there.)....

Sat Jul 15, 2006 6:58 pm

KHoots wrote:
JYM wrote:Ok...

I have to admit that nobody here understand how to compare singing abilities.

The Beatles sang all by the throat! All the time.

...the majority of pop singers sing by the throat.

Did Elvis had to do this in 1968? During the TV special he sang from the throat...



:lol: :lol: That's funny stuff. Hey, it doesn't matter one iota to me if an artist sings "by the throat," elbow, knee or ass. I listen by the ear, and the Beatles were all fine vocalists.


It is right what I thought.

Sat Jul 15, 2006 11:09 pm

Greg, during the '68 Special, Elvis was hardly ripping off ideas for the production. There was a script, and he followed it. There was a concept, and he followed it. The only thing PERSONALLY revelatory about the Special was the fact that Elvis wanted to chuck the Christmas fiasco and show he had had enough of the Colonel.
What '68 reveals is his CAREER........it's a synopsis of that, set to music. It's not revelatory on a personal level. Hell, the dressing room session inclusion wasn't even Elvis' idea........He didn't run up to Binder and say "Let's put our jam sessions on stage and show the world something about ME personally". That was not his aim.........and the interviews don't show otherwise. He had input........he was excited and engaged........he was NOT using it as a platform in the way he did Aloha IMO....I simply meant that in the context of his TV vehicles, he was most personally revelatory in Aloha.

In the '68 Special, it was much more tightly scripted than any concert......there were vignettes (how much did the whorehouse scene, the carnival scene, the nightclub scene etc reflected Elvis himself??). He wasn't involved in costuming, in the silly dance sequences, the corny vignettes. He folowed a script that was the concept of others.

In EIC.........well, what can be said there??

In Aloha, the costume was chosen to send a message about him personally(patriotism, gratitude).
The reason for the benefit (Kui Lee Cancer Fund)displayed something about him personally ( his generosity, his care and concern for others, his desire to share his success).
The song selection was his from top to bottom, not chosen by scriptwriters and producers.And those songs were a deeply personal reflection of who he was, where he came from, and where he was headed (to the dismay of many here, BTW).

And as I recall, there was indeed some rather wet horseplay around the piano even in Aloha, so the regular gigs had no monopoly there.

Everything in Aloha was crafted purposely to reflect himself.


Scat, I see what you're saying, but go back and re-read Guralnick on the '68 Special's production and I think you'll see what mean. He wasn't just a dutiful actor, but he put himself into that show, siding with Binder over the Colonel's original plan, did all those stripped down, sit-down shows that embody him as much as anything, and had that final song "If I Can Dream" which expressed much of what he was saying after RFK and MLK were assassinated. (Earl Brown was asked to write it after they heard his reaction and commentary one night..) (Also listen to each interview on that link and tell me it was just another Hollywood production...)

Incidentally, the producers also holed up with Elvis' complete record collection and distilled what he was really once about -and they suspected, still was about. It's not a given that an artist always knows what's best for him and they helped re-direct him ..back to himself. What he kicked around doing to relax was him..and they told him let's get back to that. The story of "Guitar Man" and the arc of his songs were used to tell his life story up to that point. Sure, it's Hollywood, but I think they did a great job of it.

Of course, I think it's silly to pit one of these triumphs over the other (you do like '68 don't you? :lol: , but I think the '68 special was clearly more satisfying and closer to what he needed and the proof is where '68 took him for a time as opposed to ALOHA, which represented something of a final peak and within a month or whatever he was doing half-hearted Vegas shows again. Four years after '68, he was still in a prime of sorts, doing the "Elvis On Tour" thing, as compared to four years after "Aloha," where he was on the eve of his death. Hindsight is 20/20, but I rather think a different type of show, say an actual live show in , say Berlin or Sidney or Tokyo, would have been more of an inspiration and shot in the arm..

The sense of personal triumph is all over the '68 show - and all the producers say as much. The job of a good producer (director, etc.) is often times merely to frame it and then get out of the way. ALOHA is, when closely examined, a bit frustrating for the way our man is on a leash, right down to those 3 am takes of "Early Morning Rain" and such, where our man might as well be on a movie set, singing to a dog...He clearly doesn't want to be there anymore, where as '68 was a total high for him that he lived, breathed and contributed to personally.

As great as ALOHA was, watching those outtakes gives me a negative vibe, like even after the final strain of "Can't Help Falling in Love," he still had to go back out there -sans audience- and tap dance one more time.

It's a bit of a downer, where as nothing in '68 comes close, save for maybe watching the 37 takes of "Sometimes I Feel Like a Motherless child" dance sequence... :shock: :roll:

I say all of this as a fan of both shows...

Sun Jul 16, 2006 12:59 am

Elvis was just a marionnette all his life, did nothing.

Only the beatles did something.

Sun Jul 16, 2006 1:23 am

Again, this topic is useless.

Elvis=Apple, Beatles=Orange.

In order to be a star, somebody has to be unique in his or her own way.
You just can't compare them.

Sun Jul 16, 2006 2:48 am

The 1968 TV Special's success can ultimately be credited to one person: Elvis Presley. He made the greatest music of his life in the course of taping the show, and Elvis would be nothing if not for the songs he sang, in the time he made it.

Scatter wrote:In EIC.........well, what can be said there??

"Hello, I'm dying."

[ Actually, Concerts Wests promoter Tom Hulett put it in less polite words, after seeing the June 19, 1977 performance. ]

JYM wrote:Only the beatles did something.

JYM, put down your Yanni DVDs are re-read this topic -- Elvis ALSO did "Something," in rehearsal and on stage in 1970, 1971 and 1973.

Hope this helps, and keep loving Yanni -- oops, I mean Elvis.

Sun Jul 16, 2006 3:08 am

Yanni=oranges---Beatles=oranges---Michael Jackson= A peach

Elton John=cucumber ----

Yanni rocks. He's better than the Beatles. 8)

Michael Jackson and Elton John is a tie.

Aloha show Audience was dead

Sun Jul 16, 2006 6:36 am

One of the most shocking things to me is how "dead" the audience was for the Aloha show. If you show a new fan the show, they usually make the comment, what's wrong with the crowd? Maybe they were instructed to be "calm" since the show was a live show. I much prefer the excitment of the EOT shows and the flashbulbs. There aren't many flashbulbs in the Aloha show either. Maybe they weren't allowed to bring cameras in? Same thing seems to be true in the That's the Way It Is Movie. Maybe folks were in so "awe" of Elvis, they just sat back and enjoyed the show?

As far as Elvis's performance. It was a "different" performance. Elvis sang very very well. To our disappointment, he didn't move much. He even moved more in Rapid City in 1977. But he did do a very good show. Great singing and no major mess ups. Just think how much worse it could be been. Imagine him going on live in the shape he was in College Park in 1974...Or the Houston show in 1976...Or Omaha in 1977. You get my point. It wasn't the best show, but it wasn't bad either. Under the circumstances, it was a very good show and is difficult to compare to other shows due to the "live satellite" element to consider.

Sun Jul 16, 2006 6:40 am

Like I said before, the whole room was lit, so there would be no need for flash.

Have you even heard the Houston show? I have never seen this one for sale anywhere.

Audience at the Aloha Show

Sun Jul 16, 2006 7:41 am

That's true about the lighting....Good point. On the other hand, I don't see anybody with cameras either. I haven't heard the Houston show from 76, but I'd read about that show in more than a couple of places and they all report the same thing...Bad show with Elvis extra over medicated.

I guess concerts might have been different 33 years ago. My wife and I went to see Kenny Chesney's show about 2 weeks ago. 90% of the audience was standing and going crazy the whole show. We saw Tim McGraw about 6 weeks ago and it was similiar to Kenny Chesney--a wild audience standing the whole show.

Surely the king of rock and roll deserved a better Aloha audience!

Sun Jul 16, 2006 7:51 am

Well, keep in mind that in the '70s, the seats were actually meant to be used to a large degree... The whole "stand up and cheer" the whole time thing may be the norm now, but that didn't take over until recently.

Even outside of music, compare the Jay Leno-hosted "Tonight Show" on NBC versus his legendary predecessor Johnny Carson." Today, folks scream and yell (and give standing ovations at a drop of a hat), but the old decorum was more reserved - especially when seats are provided. The notion of standing up in a muddy field to watch an entertainer is also a giff of the rock era... :shock: Even the whole "whooo!" thing is new, as in older recordings, it's pretty rare to here such hollering instead of just hand-clapping...

I think that might be a factor in TTWII. You see folks kind of breaking free and going wild but it's still a dinner theater, too. EOT is more open and free, more what like we imagine is right for a touring pop-rock singer, then and now....

On one (1970?) Elvis audience bootleg release, you can actually hear a fan yelling at another something like "sit down and shut up..." :oops:

If only she had...!

Sun Jul 16, 2006 8:16 am

Gregory Nolan Jr. wrote:What we have to bash any act that wasn't literally Elvis? I'm no Doc disciple and clash on occasion with him, but he hardly inflicts the Beatles on other people. He just ably defends their own separate artistic achievement whenever someone takes a pointless swipe at them.

re: ALOHA vs. the '68 SPECIAL

Scatter wrote:
Cryogenic wrote:
Scatter wrote:I've always been taken aback by the nitpicking criticisms of the Aloha event.

It seems more an expression of regret for what Elvis became rather than the quality of the performance (which to me is nearly unassailable).


I would argue, and have indeed been doing so, that the two are interlinked.

Scatter wrote:The irony of the situation is.........Aloha provides a truer representation of who Elvis really was as a person (purposely, and on multiple levels) than any other performance he ever gave.


I think I see what you're saying, and from a certain point of view, I might agree, but don't you think that this was true of every performance Elvis gave? Isn't that an intrinsic apart of his appeal? And, if it is, how can one show be more revealing than another? I dunno. I think "Aloha" was and is a good slice of him at that point in '73 -- just as the "Comeback Special" was and is for mid '68.


The black leather of '68 wasn't purposely commissioned by Elvis to represent anything or convey a statement to anyone.........the Bald Eagle and Red, White, and Blue of the Aloha jumpsuit was purposely chosen as personally revelatory. A statement to the world of who he was and what he believed.

And for goodness sake, let's hope that stuff like the "Blue Gypsy" wasn't purposely chosen to make a statement........cuz goodness knows what THAT says :lol: :lol:



Scat, I got the distinct impression from Peter Guralnick's chapter on the '68 special that Elvis was very much a part of the inspiration, conception and execution of the '68 TV Special in both specific (concrete) and general ways, to say nothing of pouring his entire heart and soul into the production for weeks. As epochal as ALOHA was, can we really say it rivaled his own imput and embrace of the '68 special (and the gusto it gave him through 1970)?

The '68 special's aim was to re-introduce Elvis for modern audiences by telling his own tale. The leather suit was not his idea (and wasn't truly historically correct) but he apparently loved the idea as I recall and used it to convey his old "dangerousness" as the baggy pant look of '56 really would not have cut it anymore and the "rebel" denim look of "Loving You" (the closest thing in spirit to the leather in my view) was just a bit too shaggy and rough-hewn. Factor in how much performing with a truly live audience (unlike the on-a-leash Aloha show) and you have raw Elvis in '68, compared to the more scripted "recital-like" Aloha, which I love as well, for the record.

Guralnick's book and those terrific interviews with the writers, producers, directors etc (Binder, Blye, Beard, etc.) on Sirius radio (and Elvissessions' link to it recently) really bring home how much '68 was an expression of Elvis, arguably much more than Aloha. Here are talented Hollywood artists, creators, etc. waxing so positively about the King's surprising commitment, engagement and personality during those weeks.

The love for the man really comes through from guys who really didn't have to like Elvis if they didn't want to (and in some cases were originally quite skeptical) and that too seems like an example of art reflecting someone's (Elvis) genuine self. That is, Elvis fed them his spirit and they refined it (by conceiving a sit-down portion that actually was something they were witnessing in the dressing room each day) and then he fed it back by executing it in the final show.

As a (non-Beatle)aside ):


Melanie:
Melanie wrote:Greg - I checked out the Japanese site that is the source of the photo you posted to see if there are more of those cool screen captures. Anyway I used Babelfish to translate the complete text and the results never cease to amaze me. You just can't make stuff like this up. LOL Check out the song list.

1 CC rider/jump all light/write
2 eye gutter woman
3 ? me
4 if u ? me
5 fair retail
6 u ? me ?
8 burning ?
9 R&R medley
10 the wander of u
11 blue Hawaii
12 The bridge which is depended on 12 tomorrow
13 ? mind
14 We would like to believe 14 you
15 American the ? ...

or

As for G tonight with feeling of love [Tonight Is So Right For Love]
H the shopping which is utilized [Shoppin' Around]
In I pocket rainbow fullest capacity [Pocketful of Rainbows]
The A desire served [My Wish Came True]
B fireplace foam/home [I'm Coming Home]

.


Very funny detective work! At the risk of offending any sensitive souls, you might also get a kick out of this website:

http://www.engrish.com/



Its seems to be the other way around. If someone does not think The Beatles or another artists are god's gift to the world then they are jumped on.

People sitting at the Aloha show

Sun Jul 16, 2006 8:17 am

Well, that makes more sense now. I guess people started standing (the whole show) sometime in the 90's at concerts.

Las Vegas would be a tough place to get a big reaction since sometimes there are 'non fans" in the audience. For example, last year, I went gambling at some casino in Lousiana. Since I gambled a good bit, the casino gave me free tickets to the concert that night to see Johnny Rivers. I would have never paid to see Johnny, but he did a pretty decent show. Johnny even got mad because at one point during the show, several folks in the front rows were talking while he was trying to talk! On a unrelated note, I think Johnny once stole a song from Elvis....

Oh well, I guess things have changed and I appreciate your points....

Sun Jul 16, 2006 9:00 am

carolynlm wrote:Elvis did make the 68 Special his own, that's very true, but he had a lot of help from the producers ...

I don't recall Bob Finkel or Steve Binder singing a single note -- or playing any instrument -- at any live or studio session done for the 1968 NBC-TV Special.

Without said singing and playing, as done in earth-shattering fashion by Elvis, we would not have anything to discuss in 2006.

Sun Jul 16, 2006 11:25 am

drjohncarpenter wrote:
carolynlm wrote:Elvis did make the 68 Special his own, that's very true, but he had a lot of help from the producers ...

I don't recall Bob Finkel or Steve Binder singing a single note -- or playing any instrument -- at any live or studio session done for the 1968 NBC-TV Special.

Without said singing and playing, as done in earth-shattering fashion by Elvis, we would not have anything to discuss in 2006.


Doc. you're being a bit petty and ridiculous. You say the produces had no effect on the show???
None of there ideas were used???? :roll:

Elvis would have been singing Christmas songs if it weren't for Binder!!

Good grief, you're showing your wisdom here!!!


:lol: :lol: :lol:

Sun Jul 16, 2006 12:59 pm

I remember reading a quote or seeing an interview years ago with Sammy Davis jr. about the Aloha show, I believe he used the words stunning, ( I could be wrong about what exact words he used ). Now keep in mind, this is from a man who seen EP perform live in 69/70, when EP was beyond compare. Anybody remember that interview, or quote off-hand?

Re: Aloha show Audience was dead

Sun Jul 16, 2006 1:52 pm

tsc4280 wrote:One of the most shocking things to me is how "dead" the audience was for the Aloha show.


No doubt they had instructions like 'no flashbulbs' and 'no leaving your seats'.

Having the house lights up also has a calming effect on an audience.

Re: Aloha show Audience was dead

Sun Jul 16, 2006 2:14 pm

tsc4280 wrote:One of the most shocking things to me is how "dead" the audience was for the Aloha show.

Don't forget, it was the 70s.

Sun Jul 16, 2006 4:06 pm

"Me2"
Its seems to be the other way around. If someone does not think The Beatles or another artists are god's gift to the world then they are jumped on.



That may be, "Fonzie". :lol:

Sun Jul 16, 2006 6:38 pm

The problem with the Aloha show is the trackinglist. He should have sing other songs like Polk Salad Annie, How Great Thou Art, Bridge Over Troubled Water. Forget about Hound Dog, Blue Suede Shoes and Love Me for example. He could have shown the world that there was a "new" Elvis with a different reportoire. What about Just Pretend, You Don't Have To Say You Love Me, Reconsider Baby, Proud Mary or other songs. It should have been a show with "new", other songs.

Sun Jul 16, 2006 9:58 pm

sam wrote:Doc ...

For someone who has repeatedly stated how much they dislike me, you seem to follow my every post with a response.

Of course, it's always an ignorant or inconsequential reply, but that's "par to course" as the court jester used to often declare.

Do you have my log-in name bookmarked? Please, don't answer.

Aloha set list

Sun Jul 16, 2006 10:29 pm

Let's don't forget that our boy Elvis picked the list of songs he wanted to sing.....Personally, I think he should have added more recent hits, like "In the Ghetto", "Don't Cry Daddy"....