All posts with more than 3000 Hits, prior to 2008

Mon Jul 03, 2006 8:37 am

N880EP wrote:
Gregory Nolan Jr. wrote:"N880EP/ Jesse Gardener"


What you are tyring to imply here, is ........ quite simply, ...... pathetic.


The shoe fits. Another nasty blow-hard. What class you exude on FECC. God forbid anyone ever disagree with you

Gregory Nolan Jr. wrote:N880EP, your chip on your shoulder on this board is really getting old. Take it down a notch and try to speak respectfully to fellow fans, please.


Respect is always a two-way street with me.

The collective single digits IQ of some here has indeed gotten old.


Show some respect and you'll get some, N880. I never even casually rank on anyone the way you do here and others can attest to it. If you're not going to be here too often (which is thankfully usually the case), could you at least take a page from dear old mom and "be nice"?

Gregory Nolan Jr. wrote:I haven't read his book yet but hope to this year.


IMO, ...... it is "moronic" (to use your own words) to have such an argument about Scotty Moore ............ when you yourself admit ....... that you haven't even read his book yet.

Like I said, IQ's.


Another cheap shot. I don't have to compare my I.Q or reading list to you or anyone else, particularly when I was addressing another person which is where this quote comes from. I'm proud not to have read every book written about Elvis: there's a big world out there. But I will get to Scotty's book and then I'll compare notes with Mr. "I've Read It All" N880, if he'll let me. :roll:


**************************************

Getting back on topic, to the original post in fact:


From the Scotty Moore interview ('88 )
Do you keep up with new releases?

No, in fact I'm kind of hacked off by all these what they call "alternate takes". They're not alternate takes, they're outtakes - throwaway stuff that was supposed to hit the garbage can. All that does is show us working on a song, mistakes and all, 'till we finally reach the point: "That's a master".

You're not too happy with it being released?

No, I'm not. In fact, we got the Union after them now 'cause they're saying it's part of the session, and the Union is saying: "No, it's new material you're putting out".

Fans are looking at it from a different angle. They simply enjoy hearing Elvis singing a song with a different phrasing, or in a different arrangement.

Oh sure, the fans will eat it up, but that's not the point. You think Rembrandt would enjoy all his throwaway drawings being out on the market? He went for the master, and when he found it, that was it. It's an invasion of privacy as far as I'm concerned. Not only Elvis', but all of us, everybody working with him.

But I can see the fans' point. And anything that they haven't heard him do is gonna make money for the record company But I don't think Elvis would appreciate it if he was here. If he was here, he'd do something about it. The only reason they're getting away with it, is that he's not here!


I'm reminded too that history is not really written until long after those who were alive are gone. In that sense, Scotty at the time of the interview could not fathom how interesting such "scraps" (not his word) would be in time. His time and our time overlap, but in reality, they might as well be 200 years apart in terms of perspective!

To guys like Moore or Ronnie Tutt (who has said as much) Elvis was still just a man they knew and worked with, not a capital "L" legend that we see him as today. (A recent Madison import went so far as to include an unreleased "belch" of Elvis before a previously-released "alternate" take...! :lol: I wonder what Scotty or Elvis would think of that heretofore unheard snippet? )

SoI can't blame him. Even collectors and fans in general have changed as time has gone on. Elvis would not have imagined how much each and every live show (almost) garners some interest from the fans today, no matter how poorly recorded or that they mostly feature overly-familiar set-lists.

Mon Jul 03, 2006 10:15 am

Pete Dube wrote:
JLGB wrote:After Scotty what record that featured prominent guitar playing has legendary status? Not one. edit--Burning Love maybe...


A Big Hunk O' Love; Little Sister (Hank Garland).
Guitar Man (Jerry Reed).
Promised Land (James Burton).
The latter 2 may not be legendary, but they are widely considered essential tracks from the last decade of Elvis' career.

Regarding Scotty: Not to trash the man or negate his important contributions to Elvis' early music, but he doesn't have a leg to stand on. He got paid for the sessions he played on way back when per the union rules at the time. END OF STORY!

As for Doc's comment on '77 studio recordings I'm pretty sure Doc was being humorously sarcastic in order to point out that Elvis did no studio recording in '77.
Only Big hunk is a legendary song for the song and Elvis not because of the great guitar work. The others are great guitar songs but not legendary at all. Not with Elvis that is.

Outtakes

Mon Jul 03, 2006 10:30 am

Well I see Scotty's point but seems he forgot some things. When he asked - rhetorically:

"You think Rembrandt would enjoy all his throwaway drawings being out on the market?"

The answer is "probably not" but of course it will not stop the galleries to show these unfinished studies and sketches to "paint" the complete work of the artist and of the evolution of some painting. And if someone will destroy these paintings with an explanation that they are not valuable and that the painter himself wished they were burned, he will be called cultural historical barbarian anyway.

Also... a lot of bands and artists - still alive - allow releasing of soundboards, outtakes, demos etc... officiall way. See remaining Beatles and Yoko, Bob Dylan, Rolling Stones, The Doors (Bright Midnight Archives label). They do not think that this material is not valuable and suitable for garbage can.

Mon Jul 03, 2006 10:38 am

Gregory Nolan Jr wrote:God forbid anyone ever disagree with you.


Actually, it's got nothing to do with disagreeing; it's about you being able to follow a logical argument. You aren't able to.

Gregory Nolan Jr wrote:I'm proud not to have read every book written about Elvis: there's a big world out there. But I will get to Scotty's book and then I'll compare notes with Mr. "I've Read It All" N880, if he'll let me.


I certainly haven't read every book ever written about Elvis. In fact, I haven't really read an EP related book for very long time (there really aren't that many worthwhile to begin with anyway, to be honest).

Scotty's book, IMO, is recommended reading; I enjoyed it and like the guy all the more after hearing his side of the story. He's a very admirable man, on a number of levels. You should indeed read the book (and you may also see why I hold some of the views I do).


N8

Mon Jul 03, 2006 11:06 am

Image

Greg, I purchased Scotty's book just last week. Fascinating read.

We met Scotty backstage here in Dublin Ireland a couple of years ago. It was lovely being able to thank him for those wonderful guitar sounds he made on Elvis's recordings. A gentleman.

I burnt quite a few of my 750 paintings...I should have burnt more, but we needed the money :lol:

I grew up without the out-takes. I have some of them now but rarely play them......not when there's a huge world of top notch classical music yet to be discovered.

I understand Scotty and I understand the Elvis fan that want's EVERYTHING by Elvis...........a true fanatic :lol: It's not rocket science!

Mon Jul 03, 2006 3:03 pm

Scott Haigh 781990EP wrote: Plus listen to how Elvis extends 'The sound of your cry' to 5 minutes on the FTD 'The Nashville Marathon' just repeating the chorus over and over with more and more passion untill you think his emotions would explode. These out takes go to show that Elvis was no ordinary singer, he was an EXTRAORDINARY singer.


I agree with you Scott this is quite the stand out track for me on this FTD! A always have to hit the repeat button on that one... it's just so good and heart felt.

JEFF d
EP fan

Mon Jul 03, 2006 3:21 pm

Normally, when a singer maintains a record-buying following for a number of years, they can meet the continuing demand for product with new recordings.

And again - normally, when a singer is deceased, the demand for product fades away over the years.

But with our boy, the demand just goes on & on !

Consequently, things that were originally discarded as unsuitable for release, become more desirable as time passes.

Our thirst for 'something new' - or at least 'different' continues unquenched.

Those old outtakes have become the Holy Grail !

Long may they continue !

Mon Jul 03, 2006 3:25 pm

ColinB wrote:Long may they continue !


AMEN! Prasie Jesus! :D

JEFF d
EP fan

Mon Jul 03, 2006 3:27 pm

JEFF d wrote:
ColinB wrote:Long may they continue !


AMEN! Prasie Jesus!


Well..... I wouldn't go that far..................

Mon Jul 03, 2006 3:40 pm

ColinB wrote:
JEFF d wrote:
ColinB wrote:Long may they continue !


AMEN! Prasie Jesus!


Well..... I wouldn't go that far..................


...it is no secret what God can do! Enjoy your new FTDs this month ColinB! :D

JEFF d
EP fan

Mon Jul 03, 2006 3:55 pm

N880EP wrote:
Gregory Nolan Jr wrote:God forbid anyone ever disagree with you.


Actually, it's got nothing to do with disagreeing; it's about you being able to follow a logical argument. You aren't able to.


Oh, N880 is the oracle here, King of logic.

You were dismissive of Scotty to some degree and I called you on it. You are entitled to your opinion but we can all have differences of opinion as as long as they are anchored in some degree of reality.

Our disagreement had little to do with hard facts. Besides, looking for "logic" in the world of music is a fool's game. Save your nastiness for another forum, please.


*********************
Maurice, it'll be next on the to-read list. I also met Scotty a few years back after a performance and was able to have a nice chat.

Mon Jul 03, 2006 4:15 pm

Gregory Nolan Jr wrote:Oh, N880 is the oracle here


Why "thankyaverymuch."

I'd be happy to bless something for you while we are here, as well.

Gregory Nolan Jr wrote:You were dismissive of Scotty to some degree and I called you on it.


There you go again, making false / illogical / & fallacious statements:

"Dismissive = To show indifference or disregard .."

I have done no such thing on this thread towards Scotty (granted, you are a different story, however).

Hence, you are "calling me" on something that is entirely a figment of your own imagination.

Gregory Nolan Jr wrote:Our disagreement had little to do with hard facts. Besides, looking for "logic" in the world of music is a fool's game.


Again, .... you're missing the point.

I'm only looking for logic in your responses to me.

As stated before, ........ you are still incapable of it.


N8

Mon Jul 03, 2006 4:53 pm

At the time, sessions were booked in 3 hour blocks. In those 3 hours you were expected to produce 4 cuts. In these cases, Elvis decided what would be the final cut. Everything leading up to it and and done after it were considered outtakes and not intended for distribution.
Scotty's comments about Elvis' (presumed) disatisfaction pertain to his opinion that record company's, fans are second guessing the artist.
Scotty's comments regarding the union pertain to the capitalization on product beyond the 4 cuts in 3 hours, hence, product unpaid for.
Scotty was paid nothing for any session work at Sun, by either Sam or RCA, neither was Bill. They only ever made any money when they toured, nothing from record sales. Elvis was the only one with a contract, the Colonel exploited that. Today EPE owns nothing but Elvis' image. RCA(BMG) owns nothing but his music. They need each other. Scotty's image is released on many official Elvis related product, music and other, as is Bill's. Neither has ever signed a release or received compensation. Does he have a legitimate gripe, well that's a matter of opinion I guess.
In the interview Scotty was asked his, and he gave it, in pretty much the context at the beginning of my post. He didn't launch a crusade.

Thanks for the plugs, no cheques, this is a cash only basis.

Jim

Mon Jul 03, 2006 5:59 pm

Gregory Nolan Jr. wrote:we can all have differences of opinion as as long as they are anchored in some degree of reality.


This actually describes N880, as I have always perceived him, to a tee -- in my opinion.

Your tirade against him is doing you no favours, Greg. Comparing anyone to Jesse/Gardener -- least of all the likes of N880 -- is a low blow and fallacious in the extreme. I could possibly have been sympathetic (but not empathetic) until you did that, but now...? Quite simply: a line has been crossed. N880 has this argument. He always did.

Mon Jul 03, 2006 6:26 pm

JamesVRoy wrote:At the time, sessions were booked in 3 hour blocks. In those 3 hours you were expected to produce 4 cuts. In these cases, Elvis decided what would be the final cut. Everything leading up to it and and done after it were considered outtakes and not intended for distribution.


True, but the musicians were paid for the session not per song master. They played on a 3 hour session, they were paid for the 3 hour session. The number of masters and outtakes produced at a given session was irrelevent in terms of compensation for session players.

JamesVRoy wrote:Scotty's comments about Elvis' (presumed) disatisfaction pertain to his opinion that record company's, fans are second guessing the artist.


Not really James. I think most of us recognize that the masters are the picks of the litter so to speak. It's just that outtakes are all that's available to us now. And it is fascinating to hear how a song takes shape in the studio. What's more, some of those outtakes feature some terrific vocals by Elvis.

JamesVRoy wrote:Scotty's comments regarding the union pertain to the capitalization on product beyond the 4 cuts in 3 hours, hence, product unpaid for.
Scotty was paid nothing for any session work at Sun, by either Sam or RCA, neither was Bill. Jim


Again, he was paid for the 3 hour session, not for a given number of songs. What if a master was produced, but shelved for a period of time? The session musicians who played are still payed because they played the session. Example: The May 1963 versions of Ask Me and Memphis. These tracks were shelved as Elvis felt he could do them better. But the musicians who played on these tracks were still payed because they played the session. As for Scotty & Bill not getting paid for the Sun sessions, that's something they should've addressed with Sam at the time. RCA should not be responsible for paying for sessions that took place prior to Elvis signing to the RCA label.
Last edited by Pete Dube on Mon Jul 03, 2006 6:33 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Mon Jul 03, 2006 6:31 pm

Cyro

I completely disagree with your last post.

Mon Jul 03, 2006 6:52 pm

Pete Dube wrote: True, but the musicians were paid for the session not per song master. They played on a 3 hour session, they were paid for the 3 hour session. The number of masters and outtakes produced at a given session was irrelevent in terms of compensation for session players.

That's an opinion, obviously not Scotty's which is what I was expalining, and really an issue between the the Union, sessionists and record companies, not the fans.

Pete Dube wrote:
JamesVRoy wrote:Scotty's comments about Elvis' (presumed) disatisfaction pertain to his opinion that record company's, fans are second guessing the artist.

Not really James.


Yes, really. He views it as that's the cut that Elvis decides is best, that's the one he wanted heard.

Pete Dube wrote:I think most of us recognize that the masters are the picks of the litter so to speak. It's just that outtakes are all that's available to us now. And it is fascinating to hear how a song takes shape in the studio. What's more, some of those outtakes feature some terrific vocals by Elvis.


Agreed (by me anyway).

Pete Dube wrote:
JamesVRoy wrote:Scotty's comments regarding the union pertain to the capitalization on product beyond the 4 cuts in 3 hours, hence, product unpaid for.
Scotty was paid nothing for any session work at Sun, by either Sam or RCA, neither was Bill. Jim


Again, he was paid for the 3 hour session, not for a given number of songs. What if a master was produced, but shelved for a period of time? The session musicians who played are still payed because they played the session. Example: The May 1963 versions of Ask Me and Memphis. These tracks were shelved as Elvis felt he could do them better. But the musicians who played on these tracks were still payed because they played the session.


Yes they were paid to produce it, which is what they did, release not withstanding. If Elvis felt he could do better and wanted to they would've booked more time, paid the muscians again and produced another "master". No issue.

Pete Dube wrote:As for Scotty & Bill not getting paid for the Sun sessions, that's something they should've addressed with Sam at the time. RCA should not be responsible for paying for sessions that took place prior to Elvis signing to the RCA label.


Agreed, they should've addressed it at the time, and a lot of other things, but then Sam didn't release "alternate" takes, RCA did which is what the issue at hand is and I believe I implied adds to a "gripe". Issue at hand being "Do you agree with Scotty or not"

Jim

Mon Jul 03, 2006 7:40 pm

That's clear enough for me. Yes, I would agree with Scotty.

Mon Jul 03, 2006 8:28 pm

Getlo wrote:
drjohncarpenter wrote:
ritchie valens wrote:... especially recording 1975-1977.

Yeah, those 1977 studio recordings really lack ... something.


He didn't record in the studio in 1977 Doc. Check your facts.

And when he was recorded in concert there are some fantastic vocals from our man. They lacked... NOTHING!

I'm sure the Doc is aware that there were no studio recordings made in 1977. It's called sarcasm. Something I know very little about.

Mon Jul 03, 2006 9:01 pm

Rob wrote:sarcasm. Something I know very little about.
So true. :)

Mon Jul 03, 2006 9:22 pm

Cryogenic wrote:Your tirade against him is doing you no favours, Greg. Comparing anyone to Jesse/Gardener -- least of all the likes of N880 -- is a low blow and fallacious in the extreme. I could possibly have been sympathetic (but not empathetic) until you did that, but now...? Quite simply: a line has been crossed. N880 has this argument. He always did.

Having dealt with both Greg and N8 on this MB, I have to say they are both quality people, and dear fans -- however, I'm in complete agreement with Cry's assessment of this debate. Greg, "Jesse Gardener" was one of the worst "fans" to ever darken this MB with his presence, you lost me when you chose to go that route. And let me tell you, N8 really knows his Elvis Presley -- a lot more than almost anyone on this MB, including me. I value his input a great deal.

Remember, this all began with a discussion of whether Scotty was justified in his opinion on outtakes, or is said opinion more a reflection of deep resentment and bitterness on his part. The evidence pushes me to side with the latter view. But God bless Scotty anyway, his work with Elvis will live forever.

"That's Alright, Elvis" is an important read, and it's fascinating to learn hitherto-unknown facts like he had a child out of wedlock born on July 5, 1954. Talk about a significant date! Now, if only the book's cover had avoided the use of a reversed-image. It should look like this:

Image

Incidentally, and ironically, one of my favorite Scotty guitar solos is the outtake of 1960's "Frankfort Special," first issued on 1978's A Legendary Performer, Volume 3. He just rips it up on a tune that's nothing less than a very poor cousin of their 1955 SUN classic "Mystery Train."

Mon Jul 03, 2006 9:42 pm

I'm sensing a familiar odour...

Mon Jul 03, 2006 10:01 pm

Geez I don't know how I managed to become an Elvis fan without the aid of all the guys in the know here :lol:

The obsequious nature of some of them must be really amusing to many of the discriminating readers visiting here.

Mon Jul 03, 2006 10:19 pm

MauriceinIreland wrote:Geez I don't know how I managed to become an Elvis fan without the aid of all the guys in the know here ...

Happy to help. Of course, how did you graduate from fan to self-proclaimed "expert"?

Mon Jul 03, 2006 10:24 pm

drjohncarpenter wrote:really[/i] knows his Elvis Presley -- a lot more than almost anyone on this MB, including me.
This is the f***ing TWILIGHT ZONE!!!! :mrgreen: :smt012 :smt022 :smt014 :arrow: :smt008 :smt008 :roll: :shock: :smt017 :smt033 :smt032 :smt026 :smt018 :smt034 :smt066 :smt064 :smt065 :smt057 :smt056 :smt071 :smt072 :smt070 :smt059 :smt038 :roll: