All posts with more than 3000 Hits, prior to 2008

Sat Jul 12, 2003 7:47 pm

Bobby:

I do take issue with the notion that we have earned the right to have something released by an artist when it is the property of that artist and, when that artist is dead, of their executors. This is the reason why bootleg recordings are illegal. Now I have many bootlegs in my collection, including the CBS tapes, but what I'm talking about are recordings being danctioned by EPE.

This, by the way, is the 100th post on this topic.

Sat Jul 12, 2003 7:58 pm

Stephen-

You are right, of course, that the owners of this material are not obligated to do anything with it. I didn't mean that literally--no one owes me anything. I just think if you look at the support that we have continued to give over the years (and wow, look at 2002), that a "thank-you" of sorts to the fans clamoring for this release would certainly be an appropriate gesture.

Sat Jul 12, 2003 9:15 pm

Once again this thread has generated many different opinions and points of view. There a few things I would like to add concerning some of the views expressed here.
Whilst I have always been against a commercial release of this material, like most of the people posting here, I own the out takes and the special itself and there are certain vocal performances and humorous moments that I do enjoy. As Clint points out it was still Elvis, the little in jokes were still there, and he could still sing pretty well when he was interested in the material. However, we as fans look at the positive aspects of the two shows. There’s nothing wrong with this, but I doubt the general public or the mass media would take the same approach to these performances.

Surely if the casual buyer purchases an Elvis show on video/DVD they would be expecting something along the lines of “TTWII” or “Aloha” and whilst the special may have it’s highlights for the devoted Elvis fan, it certainly isn’t up to that standard. It also goes without saying that this theory is even more relevant when applied to the release of the two shows in their entirety. In fact I really cannot understand anyone who has seen the two complete shows thinking that they are worthy of a full-unedited release.

For those who think a mainstream release of this material wouldn’t harm Elvis’ image or reputation, or simply don’t care about a full scale media exploitation of this footage (as has happened before), they must be either fully paid up members of the “Elvis could do wrong brigade” or they are being incredibly selfish. The majority of the general public are not aware of this footage, and are obviously not missing it. The majority of the fans (including those that are so desperate for a commercial release of this material) already own it. When you look at that way, there is nothing to be gained from a commercial release of this footage.

This is an excerpt from Roy Carr And Mick Farren’s “The Complete Illustrated Record” that reviews the 1977 telecast and resulting album release:

“…Instead he was jaded, breathless, and so old beyond his years that he was hardly able to move. He also encountered great difficulty in remembering his lyrics. Hitherto one of his more dependable virtues. Sensing, no doubt that they were accompanying a dying man, Elvis’ band and singers formed a united front, making every conceivable attempt to tighten up his laborious task. If ever a band earned their wages they did so on this album.

Obviously Elvis shouldn’t have been performing in such a terrible condition. Out of respect to his memory, both the CBS TV Special and this, the soundtrack should have been scrapped.”

It goes without saying that both Carr and Farren were Presley fans, and yet they came to this conclusion after watching the Special (not the out takes). Imagine the media reaction from critics who don’t like Elvis, if this material was ever commercially released.

Sat Jul 12, 2003 10:48 pm

I am not in favor of CBS' version of EIC being released. I AM in favor of a newly edited version of the concerts which would include great songs NOT shown by CBS being made available to die-hard fans through FTD or the EPE collector's club.

Look what is already available to the public and Howard Stern:

Unchained Melody (The Great Performances)
Are You Lonesome Tonight? (some versions of This Is Elvis)
Love Me (some versions of This Is Elvis)
My Way (some versions of This Is Elvis)
and probably a few more songs I can't recall right now...

The thought that the media would latch onto a fan DVD that sold 10-20,000 copies is laughable. If edited correctly, the songs would be included but Elvis complaining about his guitar pick would not, so there would be NOTHING more damaging than the already released footage and there would be plenty that would be much better than what is currently available.

Sat Jul 12, 2003 11:32 pm

Bobby:

Thanks for your reply, but I feel that the success of 2002 is precisely why we don't deserve the CBS material at this time. It would be less of a thank-you and more of a f*** you.

rockinrebel:

Excellent post. There are some great performances on the CBS shows; as I have previously said, the performances of Unchained Melody, How Great Thou Art, Trying to Get to You (the forgotten gem amongst these performances) and My Way can easily sit alongside the greatest performances Elvis ever did, period. But that alone could not justify the release of 2 hours of sadness.

Sun Jul 13, 2003 12:11 am

Stephen Butler wrote:Bobby:

Thanks for your reply, but I feel that the success of 2002 is precisely why we don't deserve the CBS material at this time. It would be less of a thank-you and more of a f*** you.


That would be true if I was talking about a public release of the CBS special, but I am not. New show. FTD. I think we want the same thing here, based on your naming some of the good performances which weren't on the special.

And I must say the above quote from Carr and Farren, while true to an extent, strikes me as overly harsh. For example, I honestly can't see someone watching that special--a fan or otherwise, and coming away with the impression that Elvis was "jaded". Where on earth does that come from? If those guys are indeed fans, they sound a little jaded themselves. Or perhaps they were just trying to be sensational.

Sun Jul 13, 2003 8:57 am

Bobby:

I think you very easily can come away with the impression that Elvis was jaded. I personally think he was alot worse than jaded. If you have the time, watch Elvis In Concert and That's the Way It Is side by side. There simply is no comparison. And that alone is sad to watch. If it wasn't for the magnificent vocal perfomance at times and elements of the old talent slipping through, it is like watching 2 different people.

The other thing is, that FTD so far have released no footage whatsoever, because they don't own the rights to it. So for them to release any June 1977 footage, they would have to go cap in hand to EPE. That ain't gonna happen.

But don't get the impression that I don't think some of it should and could be released: I do. A special edition Elvis in Concert would sit very nicely on my shelf, thank you very much. But you just have to be a realist and say that Priscilla doesn't want it, and who can blame her?

Sun Jul 13, 2003 10:01 am

"For those who think a mainstream release of this material wouldn’t harm Elvis’ image or reputation, or simply don’t care about a full scale media exploitation of this footage (as has happened before), they must be either fully paid up members of the “Elvis could do wrong brigade” or they are being incredibly selfish. The majority of the general public are not aware of this footage, and are obviously not missing it. The majority of the fans (including those that are so desperate for a commercial release of this material) already own it. When you look at that way, there is nothing to be gained from a commercial release of this footage. "

Rockin' Rebel, A bit harsh don't you think. Just because I want the footage in good quality doesn't mean I should be categorized as you so put it. Furthermore, the majority of the fans don't know this concert exist? Please. It has been around for 20 years. I know many people that remember seeing it. All one has to do is go to the nearest library, and they know the story of Elvis. I think the place is FTD label for this footage it was proffesionally shot, and why should buying a bootleg be encouraged? The video will not hurt Elvis one bit. WHat do you think people are going to do...line up and start protesting in the street burning Elvis records? Do you think people are going to start weeping and screaming they were lied to? No most people knew that Elvis died of drug abuse. Hello, that is what any adult is going to tell their 10-15 year old kid that just got turned on to Elvis. After all they are children of baby boomers. To think that Elvis is going to be "hurt" by the release of this footage is simply unrealastic. Actually sugar coating the end of his career(which is what I suspect will happen with the "difinitive" Elvis documentary) will do more damage. I suspect a lot of people wil buy, critics will cut it up and then it will be out. Muhammed Ali's last fight was commercially released. I can't think of anything more sad for a entertainor. Judy Garland's last performances were released lately as well. I think this attitude that "you don't care about Elvis as much as I do" is plain rediculous. I want the footage and I think it should be released. I don't think I am less of a Elvis fan or "care" less for wanting this.

Sun Jul 13, 2003 10:42 am

since so many people are concerned dor Elvis' '77 image, i will make another comment. well, last year, the "Elvis Lives" tv shown on NBC garnered great reviews and was a highly rated program, from what i've read, more people saw that show, age range 18-34, than Faith Hill's concert. and do u remember that whole bit with Bono and cheeseburgers and how Elvis ate America? and of course, "Unchained Melody"? well....? fair enuff, E1 continued to sell and the "T,T @F" box set sold over 200,000 copies, pretty darn good for a box set, especially in less than a years time! in reality, everytime there's a show or movie shown on tv, that era of Elvis' life is exploited and I really think that people are starting to look past it now. how many times has vh1 shown "Elvis and Me"? do u guys remember the ending, how goofy and drugged out they made him look? how 'bout the god for saken E! True Hollywood Story "Last Days of Evis"? all i'm saying is, if they can show that crap and mislead the public that Elvis was washed up by '77, why can't we fans have it for keeps sake? it's not like I sit around and jam to Elvis in '77, but I think we should have that choice if we want it or not. the Jay Leno and David Letterman jokes will always be said and I don't even think people think there funny anymore. I tried to purchase a copy of that CBS show a few years back, only to get stiffed with a horrble copy, not even viewable. I tried once more and got a lil better copy, plus sum extra footage that was actually better than "In Concert" show in quality, so i'm not gonna try again till i get it professionally.

Sun Jul 13, 2003 10:43 am

since so many people are concerned about Elvis' '77 image, i will make another comment. well, last year, the "Elvis Lives" tv shown on NBC garnered great reviews and was a highly rated program, from what i've read, more people saw that show, age range 18-34, than Faith Hill's concert. and do u remember that whole bit with Bono and cheeseburgers and how Elvis ate America? and of course, "Unchained Melody"? well....? fair enuff, E1 continued to sell and the "T,T @F" box set sold over 200,000 copies, pretty darn good for a box set, especially in less than a years time! in reality, everytime there's a show or movie shown on tv, that era of Elvis' life is exploited and I really think that people are starting to look past it now. how many times has vh1 shown "Elvis and Me"? do u guys remember the ending, how goofy and drugged out they made him look? how 'bout the god for saken E! True Hollywood Story "Last Days of Evis"? all i'm saying is, if they can show that crap and mislead the public that Elvis was washed up by '77, why can't we fans have it for keeps sake? it's not like I sit around and jam to Elvis in '77, but I think we should have that choice if we want it or not. the Jay Leno and David Letterman jokes will always be said and I don't even think people think there funny anymore. I tried to purchase a copy of that CBS show a few years back, only to get stiffed with a horrble copy, not even viewable. I tried once more and got a lil better copy, plus sum extra footage that was actually better than "In Concert" show in quality, so i'm not gonna try again till i get it professionally.

Sun Jul 13, 2003 2:03 pm

Thanks Scotch and Genesim for the well-reasoned arguments,.
rick

Nonsense

Sun Jul 13, 2003 2:32 pm

All this talk about not being able to release Elvis In Concert because of the media reaction is a joke. The special WAS already shown on TV twice in the States, me thinks they(the media) will remember this don't you!
The media couldn't care less, Elvis is still big to us and an American icon, but it''s not like he is some pop star that is ''hot''. I don''t want to cause grief to people like the Doc and others who feel the media would jump on a EIC release but the fact of the matter is that a controversial dvd release by someone like Justin Timberlake or Britney or even Madonna would cause a real stir, Elvis releases DON'T! Heck, TTWII SE sold only 6.000 copies in the States, that''s why they don''t do an Elvis On Tour SE.
We, the fans should have this footage in brilliant quality and not have to resort to alternative sources like we have had to do in the past.
Also, the negative feelings by some of Elvis in 1977 are not reflected by the reviews/stories by the people who actually saw him in his final tour whatsoever. Just reread old ELvis Monthlies or whatever and you will see that people were still thrilled by the man. Over time, fact and gossip and myth have gone through a blender and the picture some have is not a realistic one.
Elvis in Concert should without a shadow of a doubt be released in a new form, with much more songs included and backstage footage. I feel a little bit assaulted(!) by the fact that I still can''t buy it all because of one woman, who doesn''t like it herself(personal or money wise), and this one woman is the one who caused Elvis more pain than any woman ever did, now, isn't that sad!!!
Cheers
Simon

Sun Jul 13, 2003 2:36 pm

Well said Simon.
We can only hope a decent release of this comes in our lifetime.



8)

Sun Jul 13, 2003 3:57 pm

To clarify a couple of points I was referring to the general public not being aware of the “Elvis In Concert” material and not the fans. As I pointed out most of the fans already have this material, which is why we are able to discuss it here in great detail.

I really don’t think it is harsh to describe fans that want this material released commercially as selfish. For me Elvis’ weight is not the main issue here. The drug problems and the health problems they brought about affected his performance badly. We aren’t just talking about the man gaining a few pounds in early middle age here, and putting on an otherwise great performance. That’s why I thought Carr and Farren’s comments were appropriate here. He was jaded, no doubt about it, and it showed in his performance.

No, I don’t expect the general public to start burning their Elvis albums and protesting after being exposed to the CBS recordings, but I would expect any casual buyer who knows Elvis from the likes of “TTWII” and “Aloha” to be extremely disappointed if they were to buy a copy of the special, (or one of the unedited shows) and were expecting to see something similar performance wise. As Stephen points out the two things just don’t compare.

Sun Jul 13, 2003 6:38 pm

Stephen Butler wrote:Bobby:

I think you very easily can come away with the impression that Elvis was jaded. I personally think he was alot worse than jaded. If you have the time, watch Elvis In Concert and That's the Way It Is side by side. There simply is no comparison. And that alone is sad to watch. If it wasn't for the magnificent vocal perfomance at times and elements of the old talent slipping through, it is like watching 2 different people.


I agree it is two very different Elvises in those performances, but though I respect your opinion, "jaded" seems like an inaccurate description to me--particularly in the case of the Rapid City show, with his countenance and overall demeanor seeming so positive throughout the show. It just doesn't fit. Well, I suppose if by that word you and those authors simply mean he was worn out, I can see that. But when I use or hear that word, I normally think of it as implying that one is disenchanted and cynical. In that sense, the word doesn't fit. I apologize as it occurs to me how that word can have different but similar meanings. In my "disenchanted" interpretation of the word, I can think of a lot of shows of which that description is very fitting, as early as January of '71-but not the EIC material.

The other thing is, that FTD so far have released no footage whatsoever, because they don't own the rights to it. So for them to release any June 1977 footage, they would have to go cap in hand to EPE.


Yes, they would have to acquire rights to it. And although they basically need EPE's blessing, isn't the bigger obstacle something being worked out with CBS? Or do they own rights to all of the footage now? I didn't think they did. Wouldn't it more than likely be EPE to make the deal with CBS, with intentions of releasing it via FTD? Then that way they could use a clip here and a clip there for all of their future products and not have to pay someone else to do so.

I do agree this is not likely to happen real soon.

Sun Jul 13, 2003 7:29 pm

It's my understanding that EPE own the rights and the footage to everything that CBS filmed. So it would take a lot of convincing for them to release any of the footage.

I don't understand why they take bits from here and bits from there, then subject the public to 'below par' performances from June 1977, when there are better performances from the shows, gathering dust. "Love me" is probably one of the worst performances, and they chose to release that, but left "Fairytale" and "Hurt" in the vaults.

"Unchained Melody" wasn't perfect and why have such unflattering close-up shots of him at the piano?

You can't rewrite history. It will always end with Elvis singing at the last recorded concert - although you wouldn't think he ever made a third TV Special.

Sun Jul 13, 2003 8:14 pm

Along the same lines, the National Examiner (a tabloid magazine) is running their lead story "the colonel killed Elvis". Naturally their using the Nash book quoting excerpts basically saying that in the Colonel's mind "Elvis would be worth more dead then alive" and how Parker did nothing to help Elvis with his problem. Here is what bothers me, the front page has the classic picture that all fans have seen a million times from Aloha, the side view where EP looks like an Adonis, inside they have a brutal picture of EP just before his death sweating profusely, this is what scares me as todays youth isn't quite as aware of this time period and Elvis's problems as lets say twenty five to thirty year olds who grew up with most of the focus about our guy on the negative side. I personally don't want all of the hard work that EPE has done the last couple of years focusing on EP's greatness to be undone by a period of his life that has been recounted a zillion times since his death. I have such mixed feelings about this emotional subject. I don't want this period to be ignored but at the same time like most fans up until a couple of years ago we put up with a lot of crap from the media. I just hope that with this book coming out that it doesn't start all over again.

Sun Jul 13, 2003 9:38 pm

The EIC footage is probably the most contentious subject discussed on this board. My take: I cannot for the life of me understand why anyone would clamor for a MAINSTREAM/GENERAL PUBLIC release of ALL the footage. To see Elvis in the Omaha concert so obviously (and pathetically) stoned out of his gourd on downers that he can barely put together a coherent sentence is downright heartbreaking! Yes the fog lifted enough for him to sing strong versions of Hurt and How Great Thou Art, and I Really Don't Want To Know; It's Now Or Never; Early Morning Rain; Can't Help Falling In Love; and perhaps even That's All Right are reasonable all things considered (and cutting Elvis more than a little slack), and Little Sister is fair enough. But the rest is a slurry, sluggish mess. C.C. Rider and I Got A Woman/Amen are among the worst renditions he ever did of those tunes that I've ever had the displeasure of hearing. His upper register on these tunes is thin, weak and nasal. Are You Lonesome Tonight? is pathetic. Fairytale only get's good at the climax, the rest is slurred out. The best that can be said about And I Love You So is that he seems to begin emerging from the pharmacuetical fog and start to get focused with this song, but he still sounds sluggish. Love Me is along with AYLT? the low point of the show. On the Teddy Bear/Don't Be Cruel medley he sounds weak-voiced and out of breath, Jailhouse Rock is sluggishly (there's that word again) delivered, and Hound Dog a mumbled out trash job. And some of you still want this stuff out there in the general public? If the public is exposed to this the only thing they'll likely think Elvis was the king of is the king of qualudes! This is the very image of Elvis that has been so deeply entrenched in the collective conciousness of the general public and perpetuated by the media for the past 26 years, the image that the estate has worked tirelessly and, in the past few years, successfully to overcome! Elvis' reputation/credibilty is currently the highest it's been since the Aloha show, perhaps even since 1970! Let's keep the positive momentum going. Now I do think that a LIMITED release COMPILATION of the BEST footage/performances - the vast majority of which would come from Rapid City - is at least feasible. But it would take work: extensive editing of slurry dialogues, very selective (as in more flattering) camera angles, perhaps even some digital enhancement of Elvis' facial skin. But the time is simply NOT NOW!

???

Sun Jul 13, 2003 10:29 pm

Digital enhancement of Elvis' facial skin??? You gotta be kidding, why not make a digital cartoon version of Elvis altogether, so that you can at the same time remove the excessive weight and what have you, let''s also make his sideburns a little bit shorter, that''s better for his image he has nowadays! It''s plainly obvious a lot of you are youngsters who weren''t around when the king was alive and kicking. I can''t hold that against you of course, I'm just old :) but anyway that''s the way he was at the time and once again fans at the time were all still in praise of him. How sad a world it would be if Elvis' last TV special had been Aloha From Hawaii. It's sad enough there's no professional footage around of concerts from 1974-1975 -1976 and now there are ''fans'' who even want to axe the only special that was filmed during his final years. I stand by what I said, Elvis himself wanted to be on TV again and at Rapid City he sang his heart out, it would be a slam in the face of Elvis if you turned away from this, his final goodbye!
Cheers
Simon

Sun Jul 13, 2003 10:50 pm

Elvis was being filmed, but in a haze and probably didn't think of what the show would look like. I don't think he really wanted to be on TV again, but he was doing most things he did (including touring), for the money.

We hear that he saw the footage of "Omaha", but how true is that? He was touring and for the most part pretty much out of it, with the excessive use of downers.

Would he really have paid any attention to his show, filmed at Omaha - and would CBS have even bothered to get a copy to him? I doubt it.

But what we have left is all that remains of Elvis in concert. For that reason alone, it needs to be re-edited. I disagree with any digital enhancement; just expert editing of the good performances. I'm sure the show could be made so much better - even if the majority of it was from Rapid City.

Perhaps the public would be surprised at how good Elvis was, compared to the hyped, negative stories and bad newspaper photos.

Mon Jul 14, 2003 1:03 am

That's it!

To me, that's what it all boils down to: The people who haven't seen this footage but have heard something about how Elvis was at the end of his life (i.e. everyone) would be pleasantly surprised. The people who have seen it would be treated to something that showed him better than they remember.

Mon Jul 14, 2003 1:10 am

I'm glad to see that this topic has generated some truly thoughtful and intelligent discussion.
Good Day,
Mike

Mon Jul 14, 2003 3:36 am

Ok maybe I was going too far with my comment about digitally enhancing Elvis' facial skin. Let me clarify: on the Elvis In Concert special Elvis' skin has a sort of blotchiness to it that detracts from his appearance in close-up as much as the bloating. Digital enhancement of his facial skin would at least make him look a bit better in close-up, albeit still bloated.
But the other points I raised in my previous post are still valid.
Simon - for the record I was 17 when the EIC special originally aired in Oct. 77.

Mon Jul 14, 2003 3:45 am

No Bobby unfortunately people wouldn't be pleasantly surprised, their suspicions and ideas would come true worse than they possibly could think, and no Elvis wasn't better than i thought he would be. He was dying! man u people make fun of me because i say i care about the guy, yet u people who love this stuff and eat it up are terribly deluded by love or whatever feelings you have for the man. once again the hypocrites run amok as usual.

Mon Jul 14, 2003 5:11 am

well, with his usual predictable and redundant posts about hypocricy and love for Elvis, now he's questioning our "LOVE" for Elvis because some of us believe the "In Concert" show should belong "TO US"?

Kylan, get this straight dude...Elvis had been "DYING" for years already, taking extreme amounts of drugs that he probably didn't need and abused. get it? haven't u heard that Elvis first OD'd back in '73? then in '75 he was in Baptist memorial for a detox? have u ever heard some of the live "imports" of 1976? some of them, he's slurred in his speech and can't even hold a song, but alot of us have this material, so is it out of my hypocricy that i can't have the CBS show? I'm not saying we need ALL of it, but a good edit with some of the stronger performances would definetely be a keep sake! alot of people bought the "Moody Blue" Lp back in '77 as a personal token to them, personally, sort of like a farewell. audio can do just as much damage as video sometimes! don't question people on this board about their love for Elvis! I think everybody here cares for Elvis a great deal and wouldn't waste a min. of there time being here if we didn't. kinda sounds like the Brian Quinn topic, "true fan" or "loyal fan"...gimme a break!