You wrote:
Does that make Rusty nurse Ratchet ?Some fans remind me so much about the guys in Ken Kesey's brilliant book "One Flew Over The Cuckoo's Nest"...
NO OUTTAKES OF HOUND DOG EXIST!
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ElvisAhlgren
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What if Ernst isn't allowed to comment on alternate takes of Hound Dog? Remember when "I'm A Roustabout" was "found". He said on TV that a completely unknown song had been found. Later he completely denied it and claimed it to be an hypotethical statement. Still it later appeared on a CD! I think Ernst can be trusted when he says something but sometimes he cannot reveal everything he knows. So would he tell a friend about something he are not allowed to reveal? I don't think so. And if someone claims to have heard a different version of Hound Dog with clear differences who can we trust?
I would like to hear more about the possible alternate take. Was it only part of a take? Then both persons could be telling the truth. Wouldn't it be rather easy to tell if such a well know song was different in some way? He didn't say that it may have been an alternate take which would be the case if it was only minor differences. He was positive about it being an alternate take and I would like to hear why he thougth so.
I would like to hear more about the possible alternate take. Was it only part of a take? Then both persons could be telling the truth. Wouldn't it be rather easy to tell if such a well know song was different in some way? He didn't say that it may have been an alternate take which would be the case if it was only minor differences. He was positive about it being an alternate take and I would like to hear why he thougth so.
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Ciscoking
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Please correct me if I am wrong..
Wasn`t it the case that a good portion of 50`s outtakes were destroyed
sometime in 1959 because of reasons of space..??
Nobody could know back then that some 40 years later the material would become gems..
I think this practise was quite common these days....
Nowadays all is put on chips etc but my guess would be that 40 years ago these spools were a big problem and Elvis wasn´t the only artist they had under contract..
Wasn`t it the case that a good portion of 50`s outtakes were destroyed
sometime in 1959 because of reasons of space..??
Nobody could know back then that some 40 years later the material would become gems..
I think this practise was quite common these days....
Nowadays all is put on chips etc but my guess would be that 40 years ago these spools were a big problem and Elvis wasn´t the only artist they had under contract..
Thanks to Ernst Joergensen, Roger Semon and Erik Rasmussen for the great work. Keep the spirit alive !
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David Bendeth
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Re: NO OUTTAKES OF HOUND DOG EXIST!
Tallhair, To be honest I have not heard of you either. I am sure Ernst knows better than to get involved in this kind of discussion with this "crazy insane group" Whi could blame him?
Hey, I have a question for you since you worked in the vaults and in Indy.
Ever wonder why the original master of Heartbreak Hotel was never used on a CD before E1? Or was it?
I dont wonder.
DB
quote="Tallhair AKA Ger Rijff"]... David, your pissy reaction [ to me ?] is probably the reason Ernst is not bothering himself to get involved in this type of discussion. He knows what to exspect from some people on this board. Cant blame him. No, I wasnt there in 2002. I was in the vaults in 89 [ NY] and in Indy a year later.[/quote]
Hey, I have a question for you since you worked in the vaults and in Indy.
Ever wonder why the original master of Heartbreak Hotel was never used on a CD before E1? Or was it?
I dont wonder.
DB
quote="Tallhair AKA Ger Rijff"]... David, your pissy reaction [ to me ?] is probably the reason Ernst is not bothering himself to get involved in this type of discussion. He knows what to exspect from some people on this board. Cant blame him. No, I wasnt there in 2002. I was in the vaults in 89 [ NY] and in Indy a year later.[/quote]
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Matthew
Re: NO OUTTAKES OF HOUND DOG EXIST!
I think the original master wasn't in BMGs possesion prior to E1. I remember reading something about Ernst, a stash of money, a hotel and a handover or something like that!!!
[/quote]David Bendeth wrote:Tallhair, To be honest I have not heard of you either. I am sure Ernst knows better than to get involved in this kind of discussion with this "crazy insane group" Whi could blame him?
Hey, I have a question for you since you worked in the vaults and in Indy.
Ever wonder why the original master of Heartbreak Hotel was never used on a CD before E1? Or was it?
I dont wonder.
DB
quote="Tallhair AKA Ger Rijff"]... David, your pissy reaction [ to me ?] is probably the reason Ernst is not bothering himself to get involved in this type of discussion. He knows what to exspect from some people on this board. Cant blame him. No, I wasnt there in 2002. I was in the vaults in 89 [ NY] and in Indy a year later.
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Tallhair AKA Ger Rijff
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NO OUTTAKES OF HOUND DOG EXIST!
....Ahlgren, as I stated before, Ernst can say whatever he pleases. Read the thread on page 1, kiddo! Gerry, your info is incorrect. Ernst can lay his hands on any tape he needs. David, I was in the Vault as a guest of Ernst and Roger. My main purpose in NY was meeting up with photographer Al Wertheimer, to work out a deal in publishing his Elvis material in a book. Im a pretty famous [ har, har!] publisher of Elvis photo books...Anyway, I cant answer you question reg Heartbreak Hotel. After 1990 Ernst and I would mostly talk Elvis at Sun related photos. A passion he and I have shared for the past 25 plus years... Now if you can be so kind and tell whatever happened to the HD outtakes you claim to have heard, and why Ernst doesnt know nothing about existing HD outtakes, you make me [ and the rest] happy. Thank you.
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CD-collector2004
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Not that this matters, but I was never a big fan of David and I'm 100% sure DB can live with that 
But let me tell you this, if there where more takes of HD, we would have knowen by now. Ernst, Roger, Tunzi, Rijff and all the people involved would have knowen. So please, DB must have been mistaken and lets go on to something else.
And with the chance to be "killed" on this MB, please would everybody shut up or at least talk nicely about Ernst and how he works. He's the best, that happend to Elvis fans, since Elvis. He cares, he loves the music and he does the most to please us all. He might make mistakes from time to time, but atleast he does something. So to all you cdr burners, with you (deleted - see guideline #2) homemade covers, please stop it. Ernst is the real deal, and I think 99% of us would love to do what's he's doing and, I think the biggest issue is, that we are not. But this dosn't make it okay to be on his neck!
Ger when are we going to see a picture of you somewhere running aroung with your tall hair?
But let me tell you this, if there where more takes of HD, we would have knowen by now. Ernst, Roger, Tunzi, Rijff and all the people involved would have knowen. So please, DB must have been mistaken and lets go on to something else.And with the chance to be "killed" on this MB, please would everybody shut up or at least talk nicely about Ernst and how he works. He's the best, that happend to Elvis fans, since Elvis. He cares, he loves the music and he does the most to please us all. He might make mistakes from time to time, but atleast he does something. So to all you cdr burners, with you (deleted - see guideline #2) homemade covers, please stop it. Ernst is the real deal, and I think 99% of us would love to do what's he's doing and, I think the biggest issue is, that we are not. But this dosn't make it okay to be on his neck!
Ger when are we going to see a picture of you somewhere running aroung with your tall hair?
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Marko
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Ger, I remember the article in MAHM about your trip to NY in'89. Great photos BTW.
I remember reading that some Elvis outtake or master tapes were incorrectly placed inside some other artist box (maybe Dolly Parton, not sure) and were found by chance. Also, it was reported that when Bear Family got some other artists tapes from RCA to use they did found some Elvis outtakes at the end of the tape which Ernst then used later on. So obviously miracles happen sometimes.
With all respect to David I'd rather take Ernest word on this one (still I would love to hear HD outtakes). We all can make mistakes. Please just keep this discussion polite, shall we? It's been great to follow the posts of you guys and I'm personally grateful that you share your information with us fans.
Thank you.
Marko
I remember reading that some Elvis outtake or master tapes were incorrectly placed inside some other artist box (maybe Dolly Parton, not sure) and were found by chance. Also, it was reported that when Bear Family got some other artists tapes from RCA to use they did found some Elvis outtakes at the end of the tape which Ernst then used later on. So obviously miracles happen sometimes.
With all respect to David I'd rather take Ernest word on this one (still I would love to hear HD outtakes). We all can make mistakes. Please just keep this discussion polite, shall we? It's been great to follow the posts of you guys and I'm personally grateful that you share your information with us fans.
Thank you.
Marko
"I've learned very early in life, without a song, the day would never end. Without a song, a man ain't got a friend. Without a song, the road would never bend, without a song. So I'll keep on singing the song."
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MauriceinIreland
Hello Ger, Getting away from the Hound Dogs for a moment can you help with the little 20 page no text booklet on the link. Ever seen one before?
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v498/Banned_Member/TUPELO27SEPT.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v498/Banned_Member/TUPELO27SEPT.jpg
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GERRY
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Tallhair AKA Ger Rijff
This is what i was told:-
I was told the original Mastertapes are highly fragile and need carefull temparature baking just to render them useable for a short period of time .
I was told that the only time the Original Mastertapes ever came out was for special occasions such as the making of E1.And i was also told that Ernst was kept out of that?
I was also told that Ernst isnt allowed near the million dollar equipment that was used in the making of E1,So i deduced that if Ernst isnt allowed near this equipment and all this equipment is needed to make use of the original mastertapes then,well you get my drift.
I am not trying to cause trouble i just like to find out what goes on behind the scenes.
thankyou.
This is what i was told:-
I was told the original Mastertapes are highly fragile and need carefull temparature baking just to render them useable for a short period of time .
I was told that the only time the Original Mastertapes ever came out was for special occasions such as the making of E1.And i was also told that Ernst was kept out of that?
I was also told that Ernst isnt allowed near the million dollar equipment that was used in the making of E1,So i deduced that if Ernst isnt allowed near this equipment and all this equipment is needed to make use of the original mastertapes then,well you get my drift.
I am not trying to cause trouble i just like to find out what goes on behind the scenes.
thankyou.
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KiwiAlan
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I think the answer to Hound Dog session tapes is very simple.
Remember that Heartbreak Hotel outtakes were found on tapes that had been reused for another artist.
Well six months later the same usage could logically be applied to the Hound Dog session - that is the tapes were reused.
I doubt whether tapes were "thrown away" in 1956. This only began to happen at RCA when sessions started using wider tapes.
David and Ernst could both be correct. What might have been found in 2002 was a second generation copies of the master equalised for 33 and 45 and reel to reel. Purely conjecture of course.
The upshot is outtakes could exist but none have been found.
We must accept Ernst word on this.
Remember that Heartbreak Hotel outtakes were found on tapes that had been reused for another artist.
Well six months later the same usage could logically be applied to the Hound Dog session - that is the tapes were reused.
I doubt whether tapes were "thrown away" in 1956. This only began to happen at RCA when sessions started using wider tapes.
David and Ernst could both be correct. What might have been found in 2002 was a second generation copies of the master equalised for 33 and 45 and reel to reel. Purely conjecture of course.
The upshot is outtakes could exist but none have been found.
We must accept Ernst word on this.
When you get to the point where you really understand your computer, it's probably obsolete
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memphisflash
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Steve_M
Who was the engineer who made his own back up tapes at the sessions ?
Could he come into play, or if he's passed on whoever he left them to ?
David, HD takes or not, I'm still interested in what it could be that you heard with the different speed etc, I appreciate you thought it was HD, but if it wasn't it still must have been something.
As I was informed the other day, only the Way Down tape was baked and that the only tapes that are affected in this way are those from the 70's with the different chemical compound in the manufacturing process.
Could he come into play, or if he's passed on whoever he left them to ?
David, HD takes or not, I'm still interested in what it could be that you heard with the different speed etc, I appreciate you thought it was HD, but if it wasn't it still must have been something.
As I was informed the other day, only the Way Down tape was baked and that the only tapes that are affected in this way are those from the 70's with the different chemical compound in the manufacturing process.
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Delboy
That was Thorne Nogar. He and Bones Howe made copies of the Elvis sessions they were involved in. However, these were from the September '56 session onwards, it has not been documented that they were involved in making copies of the July session. Howe sold his tapes to BMG some time ago and the Nogar tapes were the ones that failed to sell at auction recently. What surfaced from the first RCA session was as a result of Ernst searching through reels with similar catalogue numbers. If Ernst says nothing from July 2nd 1956 has surfaced I'm not going to argue.Steve_M wrote:Who was the engineer who made his own back up tapes at the sessions ?
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Juan Luis
Also the 80s. It happened with Boston(the group)Steve_M wrote:Who was the engineer who made his own back up tapes at the sessions ?
Could he come into play, or if he's passed on whoever he left them to ?
David, HD takes or not, I'm still interested in what it could be that you heard with the different speed etc, I appreciate you thought it was HD, but if it wasn't it still must have been something.
As I was informed the other day, only the Way Down tape was baked and that the only tapes that are affected in this way are those from the 70's with the different chemical compound in the manufacturing process.
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Steve_M
Quite Delboy, I agree that's the stance to have, if nothings surfaced then nothings surfaced. I just don't want people to accept that that is the same as saying they no longer exist.
If those two made back up copies, then was that the "thing to do" for engineers back then irrepsective of label / artist, could it have been an accepted thing whoever the engineer was ?
If those two made back up copies, then was that the "thing to do" for engineers back then irrepsective of label / artist, could it have been an accepted thing whoever the engineer was ?
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KiwiAlan
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Recording tapes were lubricated by whale oil.
When the energy price crisis occurred in 1974 the tape manufacturers switched to a cheper synthetic which they claimed would work as well. WRONG.
So from 1974 through to 1986 tapes will break down after about five years.
After much trial and error Ampex discovered that by oven baking the tapes you could get two or three playings - enougth to transfer.
Way Down and all the others from that session were recorded on "new" synthetic tape.
It does raise interesting question though. Were other Elvis sessions from 1974 also feature this probelm - or were stocks of "old" tapes used.
Also - what aout the soundboards from 1974?
I do not know what is being used for lubrication from 1986 - most likely whale or seal oil - but it wuouldn't be PC to admit that.
When the energy price crisis occurred in 1974 the tape manufacturers switched to a cheper synthetic which they claimed would work as well. WRONG.
So from 1974 through to 1986 tapes will break down after about five years.
After much trial and error Ampex discovered that by oven baking the tapes you could get two or three playings - enougth to transfer.
Way Down and all the others from that session were recorded on "new" synthetic tape.
It does raise interesting question though. Were other Elvis sessions from 1974 also feature this probelm - or were stocks of "old" tapes used.
Also - what aout the soundboards from 1974?
I do not know what is being used for lubrication from 1986 - most likely whale or seal oil - but it wuouldn't be PC to admit that.
When you get to the point where you really understand your computer, it's probably obsolete
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Steve_M
1974 ? Possibly slightly earlier in 1973 ? Thanks for the info though, irrespective of the year I didn't know that bit of info.
I've not heard of the industry making much of an effort to get a transfer of recordings made during that time over to digital, other than the ones we know from Elvis and the Queen song "Bohemian Rhapsody"
I've not heard of the industry making much of an effort to get a transfer of recordings made during that time over to digital, other than the ones we know from Elvis and the Queen song "Bohemian Rhapsody"
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GERRY
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Even recordings as recent as Queen's Bohemian Rhapsody mastertapes need to be baked just to use them ,Roger May wil tell you this.
I bet every single Elvis Presley Mastertape is the same,and i bet what i was told is true,as not even Bryan May was allowed to touch the Original Queen mastertape and he was a Member of the band and has hiw own in house state of ther art recording studio.
Im sorry but this is reality/
I bet every single Elvis Presley Mastertape is the same,and i bet what i was told is true,as not even Bryan May was allowed to touch the Original Queen mastertape and he was a Member of the band and has hiw own in house state of ther art recording studio.
Im sorry but this is reality/
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KiwiAlan
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GERRY wrote:
I bet every single Elvis Presley Mastertape is the same,and i bet what i was told is true,as not even Bryan May was allowed to touch the Original Queen mastertape and he was a Member of the band and has hiw own in house state of ther art recording studio.
Im sorry but this is reality/
No it's not reality. It can ONLY apply to tapes manufactured between 1974 and 1986. Note manufactured date - not recording date.
Every Elvis studio recording is safe - if not the original master.
When you get to the point where you really understand your computer, it's probably obsolete
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Getlo
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Hard to believe Elvis would be in a box marked 'regects' or 'various' - it sounds incredible! 
RCA didn't seem to care much about the session tapes after they had got the master. Even then, they seemed to lose the original master!
It was a surprise that the 1976 tapes had deteriorated so much. I would have thought the later tapes would have faired so much better.
David mentioned the master tapes being damaged on 'Way Down' - so much so we may have lost the original! But back in 1997 on my visit to Graceland, the audio guide (cassette) featured unreleased Elvis banter and some outtakes from 'Way Down' from the Graceland sessions. Where did Graceland get their source - I presume the session tapes. As the tapes can't have been so badly damaged then to be able to use them for the guide.
I heard that Felton ran two recording tapes in 1976, using a safety copy incase the other failed. If this is true, all the sessions tapes must exist on duplicate. Is it possible the x-rated version of 'Hurt' is still on 2" tape somewhere?
Mind you, I also heard Getlo provided the bark at the end of 'Way Down' only to find it was Elvis! Is that right David? I would love an extended ending featuring the Elvis bark in it's full glory!
RCA didn't seem to care much about the session tapes after they had got the master. Even then, they seemed to lose the original master!
It was a surprise that the 1976 tapes had deteriorated so much. I would have thought the later tapes would have faired so much better.
David mentioned the master tapes being damaged on 'Way Down' - so much so we may have lost the original!
But back in 1997 on my visit to Graceland, the audio guide (cassette) featured unreleased Elvis banter and some outtakes from 'Way Down' from the Graceland sessions. Where did Graceland get their source - I presume the session tapes. As the tapes can't have been so badly damaged then to be able to use them for the guide.I heard that Felton ran two recording tapes in 1976, using a safety copy incase the other failed. If this is true, all the sessions tapes must exist on duplicate. Is it possible the x-rated version of 'Hurt' is still on 2" tape somewhere?
Mind you, I also heard Getlo provided the bark at the end of 'Way Down' only to find it was Elvis! Is that right David? I would love an extended ending featuring the Elvis bark in it's full glory!
Getlo