NO OUTTAKES OF HOUND DOG EXIST!
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Topic author - Posts: 1974
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NO OUTTAKES OF HOUND DOG EXIST!
... Ive not posted anything for a while, sometimes its better to stay away from the mb and clear the head... A friend adviced to read what David Bendeth had to say about Hound Dog... I had seen the topic with his name connected to it, but didnt read the threads, I had no idea who the guy was. Now Ive read most of his stories/ answers and his name didnt ring a bell because I dont have a copy of the #1 hits in my collection... That aside,I found it hard to believe he had heard several Hound Dog outtakes back in 2002... This morning I spoke to Ernst, and asked him. The answer is NO,there are no HD outtakes in the hands of Ernst & Co !!! And thats the simple truth. Our friendship goes back some 25 years, and he is not fooling me, or you, when he makes such a statement.
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Re: NO OUTTAKES OF HOUND DOG EXIST!
Tallhair AKA Ger Rijff wrote:The answer is NO,there are no HD outtakes in the hands of Ernst & Co !!!
How many stars are in the sky ???? I´LL NEVER KNOW!
I'm not convinced. I believe that no alt takes of Hound Dog have been found, but not that they don't exist.
Having said that, did David come across a part out take or something on another tape that wasn't where it was supposed to be or not where it would have been expected ?
The time factor doesn't come into play here becuase if we apply that then on that basis we are ruling anything and everything out because its been "too long now".
Having said that, did David come across a part out take or something on another tape that wasn't where it was supposed to be or not where it would have been expected ?
The time factor doesn't come into play here becuase if we apply that then on that basis we are ruling anything and everything out because its been "too long now".
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With so many takes it's strange that no outtakes have been found. It would be very interesting to hear the first attempts. But if they find any outtakes it will probably be some of the last takes which will be more or less identical to the master. They probably had several reels for the session and it could be that the re-used at least the first one. Why would they save something that wasn't good enough when they already had lots of takes? It would make more sense to keep the reel with the master take and maybe the takes before and after.
Then again some stupid person might have erased it all when the master take was copied to another tape. Or the tapes may have been destroyed or lost like so many others.
But let's hope something will be found even though chances are getting slimmer.
Then again some stupid person might have erased it all when the master take was copied to another tape. Or the tapes may have been destroyed or lost like so many others.
But let's hope something will be found even though chances are getting slimmer.
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Topic author - Posts: 1974
- Registered for: 19 years
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NO OUTTAKES OF HOUND DOG EXIST!
... Okay, lets put it differently. no outtakes have been found or heard of HD to this very day. Ernst, Roger, Erik [ Rasmussen] and a few others have checked everything since 89. Its impossible David heard outtakes of HD without Ernst knowing about it! For example, one time David came in all excited, thinking he had found unreleased takes to a certain song. Ernst listened politely,and told him that stuff had been catalogued ages ago... Hey, cmon, whos the expert here? Ernst or David? Had Ernst found any HD outtakes in recent years, he would have shared the good news with us. By the way, theres nobody in the directors room who tells Ernst what and what not to tell the fans.
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Was it not in 1959? that RCA were chucking out sessions tapes like there was no tomorrow...we have the master on a reel...lets give the rest the boot.
They got a lot of the 50"s stuff from sound engineers,who kept the safety copys....Radio recorders was a good story...when your man Thron was taking home tapes.
They got a lot of the 50"s stuff from sound engineers,who kept the safety copys....Radio recorders was a good story...when your man Thron was taking home tapes.
KEV.
SAM...17.3.1955 to 24.1.2008
SAM...17.3.1955 to 24.1.2008
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according to reliable sources, a lot of Elvis tapes were thrown away by RCA in the 1950's. Most likely some of the sessiontapes from summer of -56 were thrown away. Even if Elvis was a rocketing star by then, what use could RCA see in all the outtakes of a released song?
I have read somewehere (I'm at work now and can't check where I read it) that this has been checked with a person who was working on the place when the tapes were thrown away. He saw that they threw away boxes with Elvis tapes. Whether the HD outtakes were included or if someone moved them from the container where they were thrown remains uncertain. But really - they should have surfaced now in one way or another. RCA would have received an offer or some collector would have told someone.
I have read somewehere (I'm at work now and can't check where I read it) that this has been checked with a person who was working on the place when the tapes were thrown away. He saw that they threw away boxes with Elvis tapes. Whether the HD outtakes were included or if someone moved them from the container where they were thrown remains uncertain. But really - they should have surfaced now in one way or another. RCA would have received an offer or some collector would have told someone.
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Re: NO OUTTAKES OF HOUND DOG EXIST!
Well, according to some guys on ElvisNews' pages Ernst doesn't even like Elvis so it sure ain't him!Tallhair AKA Ger Rijff wrote:Hey, cmon, whos the expert here?
Some fans remind me so much about the guys in Ken Kesey's brilliant book "One Flew Over The Cuckoo's Nest"...
Keith Richards, Jr.
Dedicated member of The Official Harum Scarum Appreciation Society!
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Re: NO OUTTAKES OF HOUND DOG EXIST!
I hope you are reading the threads on this board and not another? Please try and keep up, This was specifically explained, we know who the real experts are dont we? We all know that the catalogue work done was impeccable and it would be virtually impossible to make a mistake on anything at any time. The people involved have seen every tape and every reel and of course listened to everything on every tape machine known to man. Why would anyone try to fool anyone at any time? Then again what the hell do I know I only work in a studio. And when I was there I found nothing new at all, it was all very ho hum.
In fact I am not even sure if we had the real masters, they could have been fourth or fifth generation. I didnt see you there though..were you there? The way I remembered it there was no one else there. Sorry If I missed you.
In fact I am not even sure if we had the real masters, they could have been fourth or fifth generation. I didnt see you there though..were you there? The way I remembered it there was no one else there. Sorry If I missed you.
Tallhair AKA Ger Rijff wrote:... Okay, lets put it differently. no outtakes have been found or heard of HD to this very day. Ernst, Roger, Erik [ Rasmussen] and a few others have checked everything since 89. Its impossible David heard outtakes of HD without Ernst knowing about it! For example, one time David came in all excited, thinking he had found unreleased takes to a certain song. Ernst listened politely,and told him that stuff had been catalogued ages ago... Hey, cmon, whos the expert here? Ernst or David? Had Ernst found any HD outtakes in recent years, he would have shared the good news with us. By the way, theres nobody in the directors room who tells Ernst what and what not to tell the fans.
With thousands of tapes (over 4000) a mistake is possible I think and I hope. It has happened to everyone when one is looking for something and you do not notice it. So the expression"If it had been a snake it would have bit you" or any other animal substitute. I was the one that asked Mr. Bendeth point blank if he found the outtakes in question and he said yes. I repeated the question and he answered with even more detail as in speed changes. Very interesting since Elvis was doing the song live with just that. I know Mr. Bendeth is no Elvis expert and also not a liar. And I think it does not take an Elvis expert to distinguish between a dog and a hotel. Hound Dog and Heartbreak Hotel that is!
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Topic author - Posts: 1974
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NO OUTTAKES OF HOUND DOG EXIST!
... David, your pissy reaction [ to me ?] is probably the reason Ernst is not bothering himself to get involved in this type of discussion. He knows what to exspect from some people on this board. Cant blame him. No, I wasnt there in 2002. I was in the vaults in 89 [ NY] and in Indy a year later.
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Re: NO OUTTAKES OF HOUND DOG EXIST!
Now that's just ruining a perfectly good conspiracy theoryTallhair AKA Ger Rijff wrote: By the way, theres nobody in the directors room who tells Ernst what and what not to tell the fans.
Ger, light something up - quickly and take a loooooong good tote on it
No one is lying to anyone on here in regards to the issues raised, some maybe mistaken or misinformed or whatever, but no one is lying.
now, if we can all gleen more info and thus more understanding then perhaps the issues can be more easily resolved. But pointing fingers and making negative comments isn't gonna get people to open up and it'll just die down and leave bitter tastes everywhere.
No one is lying to anyone on here in regards to the issues raised, some maybe mistaken or misinformed or whatever, but no one is lying.
now, if we can all gleen more info and thus more understanding then perhaps the issues can be more easily resolved. But pointing fingers and making negative comments isn't gonna get people to open up and it'll just die down and leave bitter tastes everywhere.
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There were some missing tapes found in boxes marked incorrectly - not showing Elvis as the artist. They stumbled upon them.
Perhaps Hound Dog outtakes are in such a box? Surely all the various boxes in the vaults have not been checked. Especially if they were listed as another artist.
It's a possibility... well a dream anyhow!
Perhaps Hound Dog outtakes are in such a box? Surely all the various boxes in the vaults have not been checked. Especially if they were listed as another artist.
It's a possibility... well a dream anyhow!
Getlo
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Topic author - Posts: 1974
- Registered for: 19 years
- Location: amsterdam
NO OUTTAKES OF HOUND DOG EXIST!
... Steve, I never suggested David is lying, just badly mistaken. Happens to the best of us...Giving him the benefit of the doubt, what happened to those outtakes after he listened to them? I would think the tape are put aside with a note explaining the rarity of their contents? What happened? A simple question, I do think?...
Yes I do think the question is reasonable and I'm sure David can shed some light on this to some degree though ti may not be anything more than what he has already explained in the other thread. The only bit above that was directed at you Ger was to light something up the rest was for everyone so that we don't miss an opportunity to learn something possibly.
What I don't know (though many fans here do) is things like, if it is the master on the tape then is it the master tape? If it is the master tape then you would expect something either side re out takes.
If no other takes exist then does a part of other takes exist, no one has ever made that clear to me, even if they have to everyone else.
If David did play something and he though it was Hound Dog but was mistaken, then what was it ?
I know David didn't mix this because it was mono track, but it sure did sound different all the same - how ?
Was the master that's been used in the past put onto tape from a 78 rpm transfer if the original tape was lost?
What I don't know (though many fans here do) is things like, if it is the master on the tape then is it the master tape? If it is the master tape then you would expect something either side re out takes.
If no other takes exist then does a part of other takes exist, no one has ever made that clear to me, even if they have to everyone else.
If David did play something and he though it was Hound Dog but was mistaken, then what was it ?
I know David didn't mix this because it was mono track, but it sure did sound different all the same - how ?
Was the master that's been used in the past put onto tape from a 78 rpm transfer if the original tape was lost?
If I remember (reading) correctly it (Hound Dog) WAS taken from Elvis' Golden Records compilation and therefore was not from the master tape but a copy of. Since then it has been from a better(or The master) source than mentioned. The Billboard Hound Dog was obviously taken from a good tape that still compares favorably with the latest DSD release because it was also mastered very well.
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Topic author - Posts: 1974
- Registered for: 19 years
- Location: amsterdam
NO OUTTAKES OF HOUND DOG EXIST!
....Back in 89 a large tape box containing a reel with both the masters of Hound Dog and Cruel was located. It didnt contain any outtakes. Yet another tape box was found in the NY vaults with yet again HD master plus My Baby Left Me master. No outtakes. Outtakes to certain songtitles appeared in tape boxes marked "Rejects"or "Various". But always with "Elvis" written on them. Well, maybe some were misfiled and are now "sleeping" in a Perry Como tape box?... But in that case a misfiled tape [or unmarked tape] would not just pop up in a studio as part of a tape collection to be used for re-mastering purposes. So you wont get a Como tape box among your Elvis tapes if one doesnt ask the Vault Keeper to bring it upstairs to the recording studio. Well, thats how it worked out back in 89...