NO OUTTAKES OF HOUND DOG EXIST!

All posts with more than 3000 Hits, prior to 2008

Moderators: Moderator5, Moderator3, FECC-Moderator, Site Mechanic

Post Reply

User avatar

Topic author
Tallhair AKA Ger Rijff
Posts: 1974
Registered for: 19 years
Location: amsterdam

NO OUTTAKES OF HOUND DOG EXIST!

#214083

Post by Tallhair AKA Ger Rijff »

... Ive not posted anything for a while, sometimes its better to stay away from the mb and clear the head... A friend adviced to read what David Bendeth had to say about Hound Dog... I had seen the topic with his name connected to it, but didnt read the threads, I had no idea who the guy was. Now Ive read most of his stories/ answers and his name didnt ring a bell because I dont have a copy of the #1 hits in my collection... That aside,I found it hard to believe he had heard several Hound Dog outtakes back in 2002... This morning I spoke to Ernst, and asked him. The answer is NO,there are no HD outtakes in the hands of Ernst & Co !!! And thats the simple truth. Our friendship goes back some 25 years, and he is not fooling me, or you, when he makes such a statement.



User avatar

Renan
Posts: 5089
Registered for: 19 years 4 months
Location: SAO PAULO, BRAZIL
Has thanked: 210 times
Been thanked: 210 times
Age: 38
Contact:

#214087

Post by Renan »

I don´t know who can I really trust.


"Ain't it funny how time slips away...."


Marco Aurelio
Posts: 732
Registered for: 19 years 3 months
Location: SAO PAULO, BRAZIL
Been thanked: 2 times

Re: NO OUTTAKES OF HOUND DOG EXIST!

#214088

Post by Marco Aurelio »

Tallhair AKA Ger Rijff wrote:The answer is NO,there are no HD outtakes in the hands of Ernst & Co !!!
:shock: :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock:


How many stars are in the sky ???? I´LL NEVER KNOW!


Rob

#214089

Post by Rob »

Renan wrote:I don´t know who can I really trust.
Well, in nearly 50 years we've never had it surface. I know who I'm putting my money on.




GERRY
BANNED FOR LIFE!
BANNED FOR LIFE!
Posts: 3130
Registered for: 20 years 1 month
Has thanked: 870 times
Been thanked: 514 times

#214104

Post by GERRY »

So no HD outtakes are in the hands of Ernst & Co-my question is:- does this mean that none exist? Does Ernst have access to every single mastertape in the Archive?




Steve_M

#214105

Post by Steve_M »

I'm not convinced. I believe that no alt takes of Hound Dog have been found, but not that they don't exist.

Having said that, did David come across a part out take or something on another tape that wasn't where it was supposed to be or not where it would have been expected ?

The time factor doesn't come into play here becuase if we apply that then on that basis we are ruling anything and everything out because its been "too long now".




Scarre
Posts: 5171
Registered for: 20 years 11 months
Been thanked: 1377 times

#214108

Post by Scarre »

Rob wrote:
Renan wrote:I don´t know who can I really trust.
Well, in nearly 50 years we've never had it surface. I know who I'm putting my money on.
I agree with Rob. No reason for EJ to lie to Ger about this. Ernst is an EP expert...DB again...well...below avarage, so to speak...




Eileen
Posts: 411
Registered for: 20 years 7 months

#214113

Post by Eileen »

David posted further on this in the Hound Dog thread.

Eileen



User avatar

ElvisAhlgren
Posts: 254
Registered for: 20 years 7 months
Location: Finland
Mood:
Has thanked: 1 time
Been thanked: 7 times
Age: 57
Contact:

#214115

Post by ElvisAhlgren »

With so many takes it's strange that no outtakes have been found. It would be very interesting to hear the first attempts. But if they find any outtakes it will probably be some of the last takes which will be more or less identical to the master. They probably had several reels for the session and it could be that the re-used at least the first one. Why would they save something that wasn't good enough when they already had lots of takes? It would make more sense to keep the reel with the master take and maybe the takes before and after.

Then again some stupid person might have erased it all when the master take was copied to another tape. Or the tapes may have been destroyed or lost like so many others.

But let's hope something will be found even though chances are getting slimmer.



User avatar

Topic author
Tallhair AKA Ger Rijff
Posts: 1974
Registered for: 19 years
Location: amsterdam

NO OUTTAKES OF HOUND DOG EXIST!

#214121

Post by Tallhair AKA Ger Rijff »

... Okay, lets put it differently. no outtakes have been found or heard of HD to this very day. Ernst, Roger, Erik [ Rasmussen] and a few others have checked everything since 89. Its impossible David heard outtakes of HD without Ernst knowing about it! For example, one time David came in all excited, thinking he had found unreleased takes to a certain song. Ernst listened politely,and told him that stuff had been catalogued ages ago... Hey, cmon, whos the expert here? Ernst or David? Had Ernst found any HD outtakes in recent years, he would have shared the good news with us. By the way, theres nobody in the directors room who tells Ernst what and what not to tell the fans.



User avatar

iamhekev
Posts: 1396
Registered for: 19 years 11 months
Location: Highlands of Scotland
Age: 60
Contact:

#214123

Post by iamhekev »

Was it not in 1959? that RCA were chucking out sessions tapes like there was no tomorrow...we have the master on a reel...lets give the rest the boot.

They got a lot of the 50"s stuff from sound engineers,who kept the safety copys....Radio recorders was a good story...when your man Thron was taking home tapes.


KEV.


SAM...17.3.1955 to 24.1.2008

User avatar

samses
Posts: 1573
Registered for: 20 years 11 months
Location: Stockholm, Sweden
Has thanked: 56 times
Been thanked: 282 times

#214124

Post by samses »

according to reliable sources, a lot of Elvis tapes were thrown away by RCA in the 1950's. Most likely some of the sessiontapes from summer of -56 were thrown away. Even if Elvis was a rocketing star by then, what use could RCA see in all the outtakes of a released song?

I have read somewehere (I'm at work now and can't check where I read it) that this has been checked with a person who was working on the place when the tapes were thrown away. He saw that they threw away boxes with Elvis tapes. Whether the HD outtakes were included or if someone moved them from the container where they were thrown remains uncertain. But really - they should have surfaced now in one way or another. RCA would have received an offer or some collector would have told someone.



User avatar

Keith Richards, Jr.
Posts: 4616
Registered for: 20 years 10 months
Location: Sweden
Has thanked: 37 times
Been thanked: 648 times

Re: NO OUTTAKES OF HOUND DOG EXIST!

#214129

Post by Keith Richards, Jr. »

Tallhair AKA Ger Rijff wrote:Hey, cmon, whos the expert here?
Well, according to some guys on ElvisNews' pages Ernst doesn't even like Elvis so it sure ain't him! :shock: :D :oops:

Some fans remind me so much about the guys in Ken Kesey's brilliant book "One Flew Over The Cuckoo's Nest"...

Keith Richards, Jr.


Dedicated member of The Official Harum Scarum Appreciation Society!


David Bendeth
Posts: 247
Registered for: 18 years 4 months
Been thanked: 24 times
Contact:

Re: NO OUTTAKES OF HOUND DOG EXIST!

#214131

Post by David Bendeth »

I hope you are reading the threads on this board and not another? Please try and keep up, This was specifically explained, we know who the real experts are dont we? We all know that the catalogue work done was impeccable and it would be virtually impossible to make a mistake on anything at any time. The people involved have seen every tape and every reel and of course listened to everything on every tape machine known to man. Why would anyone try to fool anyone at any time? Then again what the hell do I know I only work in a studio. And when I was there I found nothing new at all, it was all very ho hum.
In fact I am not even sure if we had the real masters, they could have been fourth or fifth generation. I didnt see you there though..were you there? The way I remembered it there was no one else there. Sorry If I missed you.







Tallhair AKA Ger Rijff wrote:... Okay, lets put it differently. no outtakes have been found or heard of HD to this very day. Ernst, Roger, Erik [ Rasmussen] and a few others have checked everything since 89. Its impossible David heard outtakes of HD without Ernst knowing about it! For example, one time David came in all excited, thinking he had found unreleased takes to a certain song. Ernst listened politely,and told him that stuff had been catalogued ages ago... Hey, cmon, whos the expert here? Ernst or David? Had Ernst found any HD outtakes in recent years, he would have shared the good news with us. By the way, theres nobody in the directors room who tells Ernst what and what not to tell the fans.



User avatar

samses
Posts: 1573
Registered for: 20 years 11 months
Location: Stockholm, Sweden
Has thanked: 56 times
Been thanked: 282 times

#214138

Post by samses »

David,

I have gone through your previous GIGANTIC thread. It was fantastic. Regarding outtakes from the HD sessions, could you be more specific?




Juan Luis

#214147

Post by Juan Luis »

With thousands of tapes (over 4000) a mistake is possible I think and I hope. It has happened to everyone when one is looking for something and you do not notice it. So the expression"If it had been a snake it would have bit you" or any other animal substitute. I was the one that asked Mr. Bendeth point blank if he found the outtakes in question and he said yes. I repeated the question and he answered with even more detail as in speed changes. Very interesting since Elvis was doing the song live with just that. I know Mr. Bendeth is no Elvis expert and also not a liar. And I think it does not take an Elvis expert to distinguish between a dog and a hotel. Hound Dog and Heartbreak Hotel that is!




Steve_M

#214149

Post by Steve_M »

Nicely summised JLGB. :wink:



User avatar

Topic author
Tallhair AKA Ger Rijff
Posts: 1974
Registered for: 19 years
Location: amsterdam

NO OUTTAKES OF HOUND DOG EXIST!

#214156

Post by Tallhair AKA Ger Rijff »

... David, your pissy reaction [ to me ?] is probably the reason Ernst is not bothering himself to get involved in this type of discussion. He knows what to exspect from some people on this board. Cant blame him. No, I wasnt there in 2002. I was in the vaults in 89 [ NY] and in Indy a year later.



User avatar

TJ
Posts: 7144
Registered for: 19 years 9 months
Has thanked: 27 times
Been thanked: 858 times
Contact:

Re: NO OUTTAKES OF HOUND DOG EXIST!

#214160

Post by TJ »

Tallhair AKA Ger Rijff wrote: By the way, theres nobody in the directors room who tells Ernst what and what not to tell the fans.
Now that's just ruining a perfectly good conspiracy theory :wink:




Steve_M

#214161

Post by Steve_M »

Ger, light something up - quickly and take a loooooong good tote on it :wink:

No one is lying to anyone on here in regards to the issues raised, some maybe mistaken or misinformed or whatever, but no one is lying.

now, if we can all gleen more info and thus more understanding then perhaps the issues can be more easily resolved. But pointing fingers and making negative comments isn't gonna get people to open up and it'll just die down and leave bitter tastes everywhere.



User avatar

Getlo
Posts: 418
Registered for: 20 years 11 months
Location: England
Has thanked: 1 time
Been thanked: 1 time
Contact:

#214166

Post by Getlo »

There were some missing tapes found in boxes marked incorrectly - not showing Elvis as the artist. They stumbled upon them.

Perhaps Hound Dog outtakes are in such a box? Surely all the various boxes in the vaults have not been checked. Especially if they were listed as another artist.

It's a possibility... well a dream anyhow! :wink:


Getlo

User avatar

Topic author
Tallhair AKA Ger Rijff
Posts: 1974
Registered for: 19 years
Location: amsterdam

NO OUTTAKES OF HOUND DOG EXIST!

#214172

Post by Tallhair AKA Ger Rijff »

... Steve, I never suggested David is lying, just badly mistaken. Happens to the best of us...Giving him the benefit of the doubt, what happened to those outtakes after he listened to them? I would think the tape are put aside with a note explaining the rarity of their contents? What happened? A simple question, I do think?...




Steve_M

#214173

Post by Steve_M »

Yes I do think the question is reasonable and I'm sure David can shed some light on this to some degree though ti may not be anything more than what he has already explained in the other thread. The only bit above that was directed at you Ger was to light something up :lol: the rest was for everyone so that we don't miss an opportunity to learn something possibly.

What I don't know (though many fans here do) is things like, if it is the master on the tape then is it the master tape? If it is the master tape then you would expect something either side re out takes.
If no other takes exist then does a part of other takes exist, no one has ever made that clear to me, even if they have to everyone else.
If David did play something and he though it was Hound Dog but was mistaken, then what was it ?
I know David didn't mix this because it was mono track, but it sure did sound different all the same - how ?
Was the master that's been used in the past put onto tape from a 78 rpm transfer if the original tape was lost?




Juan Luis

#214176

Post by Juan Luis »

If I remember (reading) correctly it (Hound Dog) WAS taken from Elvis' Golden Records compilation and therefore was not from the master tape but a copy of. Since then it has been from a better(or The master) source than mentioned. The Billboard Hound Dog was obviously taken from a good tape that still compares favorably with the latest DSD release because it was also mastered very well.



User avatar

Topic author
Tallhair AKA Ger Rijff
Posts: 1974
Registered for: 19 years
Location: amsterdam

NO OUTTAKES OF HOUND DOG EXIST!

#214183

Post by Tallhair AKA Ger Rijff »

....Back in 89 a large tape box containing a reel with both the masters of Hound Dog and Cruel was located. It didnt contain any outtakes. Yet another tape box was found in the NY vaults with yet again HD master plus My Baby Left Me master. No outtakes. Outtakes to certain songtitles appeared in tape boxes marked "Rejects"or "Various". But always with "Elvis" written on them. Well, maybe some were misfiled and are now "sleeping" in a Perry Como tape box?... But in that case a misfiled tape [or unmarked tape] would not just pop up in a studio as part of a tape collection to be used for re-mastering purposes. So you wont get a Como tape box among your Elvis tapes if one doesnt ask the Vault Keeper to bring it upstairs to the recording studio. Well, thats how it worked out back in 89...


Post Reply