All posts with more than 3000 Hits, prior to 2008

SUN RECORDS EXPLORED BY THE DUTCH AS EARLY AS 1969 !!!

Mon Oct 17, 2005 9:58 am

... Dont wait too long in sharing your other adventures! Keep m coming, Splanky, We will show them Yanks!

Mon Oct 17, 2005 10:22 am

Don't forget that Parker was also Dutch! :wink:

JEFF d
Elvis fan

Mon Oct 17, 2005 10:40 am

JEFF d wrote:Don't forget that Parker was also Dutch! :wink:

JEFF d
Elvis fan


Not to mention that Elvis' song publishers that gave him the crap songs to sing in the 60's were from Austria... Actually when you think about it the Europeans had a huge effect on Elvis's career. ;)

Mon Oct 17, 2005 9:34 pm

Marko wrote:Not to mention that Elvis' song publishers that gave him the crap songs to sing in the 60's were from Austria... Actually when you think about it the Europeans had a huge effect on Elvis's career. ;)



Elvis sang crappy movie songs?
Blame it on Hitler.



The Aberbach Bros/Hill & Range publishers came to America during WW2 to escape the Third Reich because they were Jewish. Staying in the US, they started the NY company that allegedly helped buy Elvis out of Sun, and conspirtorially corraled Elvis into the shitty song process that plagued his body of work, more than helping it.

Re: SUN RECORDS EXPLORED BY THE DUTCH AS EARLY AS 1969 !!!

Tue Oct 18, 2005 9:39 pm

CD-collector2004 wrote:Who started all the rumors about Uncle Pen ect? I think Hans claimed he heard it, right?

Tallhair AKA Ger Rijff wrote:Hans [ like Ernst] is a man of facts, and I feel, he would never ever make up such a story to "show off" . The same I can say about his close friend Adri Sturm, who joined Hans on these trips to the South . And I dont remember ever having seen mention of Pen in connection with Elvis prior to Hans... The mystery continues...

There had been "Rumours" about 'Uncle Pen' but nothing that suggested it really existed, or that someone had really heard it, before Hans' book. It was only with the publication of "The Hillbilly Cat" and the "Fact" that the author had heard it, that everyone agreed that the rumour must be true, and 'Uncle Pen' must exist!

The following is taken directly from "The Hillbilly Cat" by Hans Langbroek (Second pressing - 1981)

"in the summer of 1955 people talk for weeks about elvis presley's appearance in town and
papers start publishing stories about him, and his sudden success, music papers write com-
ments about his chart ratings with local radio stations and report about one of his records
,,uncle pen" reaching the number one spot with radio stations in the niagara falls, the record
is available there and on the flipside is ,,i forgot to remember to forget", the label says it
is a sun record, although the familiar music notes around the edge are missing, when ,,uncle
pen" is riding high in the local charts there sun release another presley record and soon
,,uncle pen" disappears forever. ,,i forgot to remember to forget is one of the sides of the
new sun release, and is exactly the same recording as released on the flip of ,,uncle pen".
that i think is proof enough that the recordings are in fact made by the sun label in memphis
although they are not released on the label but through a pirate company i can very well
imagine for instance that ,,uncle pen comes from the same session as ,,blue moon of ken-
tucky as both songs are written by bill monroe.
the sound of the record is not too good in quality, although you will immediately spot the
famous ,, rough sun sound, also it is most certainly a studio recording for there is no live
audience so it is not taken from one of his many radio shows, on the original recording by
bill monroe there is the line: ,,uncle pen played the fiddle and the old banjo that you will
hear on el's version too only the southern drawl makes it almost impossible to understand the
words and then there is a guitar break like scotty plays them on about every released sun
song. elvis version of the song is slower than the original blue grass treatment by monroe
but faster than the most famous version of this song by porter wagoner on rca maybe that also
is the reason that rca never released the presley recording of this song, for ,,uncle pen" by
porter wagoner sells well right from the start and it sells still today and sales figures are
over 2.000.000 copies now.
oh, if you are still wondering how that pirate company was able to release ,,uncle pen" then
i think i better tell you. i most certainly believe that this recording comes from a demonstra-
tion record made of this recording for the sun label by sheldon in chicago and one way or
another the pirate company gets it, and that will also explain the poorer quality of the
recording.
now this might sound hard for you to believe, i know that, but do not think it is impossible
for thanks to one of my fine friends in the united states i traced another demonstration
sample with released as well as unreleased sun material on. one of these recordings is an-
other take of a song which is released, it is ,,i'm left, you're right, she's gone" and there
is no doubt about it that the singer is elvis presley !
i do not think that this other take will ever be released and that is a pity for a lot of the
songs that have been released up to now do not have the quality this take has ! so let me
try and describe this recording to you. the words are quite different although they basically
tell the same story, also there is another verse that is not on the released recording and
the other way round, the backing is completely different as well for it just consists of
scotty's electric guitar and that voice, that is the most different of all - so bluesy ! it is
very clear that sam could not issue this for it sounds ever so much like a slow blues song
that the people would not accept it like that. they talk about white singers singing the
blues nowadays, well presley was already singing it when most of them were still in junior
school - and how ! for i feel words cannot describe this song nor can they relay the impact
it has and i only hope you now have some idea about what it is like."


I wonder if Hans has ever apologised to the fans for this most misleading "Fact", regarding 'Uncle Pen'.

Or maybe he did hear it :wink:

Ger?

Tue Oct 18, 2005 9:47 pm

There was an Elvis song book from the 1950s(maybe hill and range) that had Uncle Penn and Saturday night something and that is what probably started people looking for something that might not have existed.

Tue Oct 18, 2005 9:52 pm

JLGB wrote:There was an Elvis song book from the 1950s(maybe hill and range) that had Uncle Penn and Saturday night something and that is what probably started people looking for something that might not have existed.


Then again this guy had an acetate of "My baby's gone" (slow version of "I'm left, you're right, she's gone") and later some other Sun outtakes saw the light of day on an LP with other Sun artists' outtakes.

Tue Oct 18, 2005 9:53 pm

That's right JLGB, is was "Elvis Presley - Album OF Juke Box Favourites" (by Hill And Range Songs Inc.) that set the rumours going about several songs way back in 1955, but when Hans clearly indicates that he had "Heard" 'Uncle Pen' then it was no longer considered to be just rumour, it was considered to be "Fact" that 'Uncle Pen' existed.

SUN RECORDS EXPLORED BY THE DUTCH AS EARLY AS 1969 !!!

Tue Oct 18, 2005 10:03 pm

... Too tired right now. Hoping to reply tomorrow.

Tue Oct 18, 2005 10:05 pm

Great thread, folks! I've managed to find a few of Ger's books in the last
year, and yep, they're hard to get a hold of ..!

As for Elvis fandom, there's something about an
artist being so near when it's a domestic
artist that makes historical research seem arcane, especially, say, in '69
or the '70s.
But Elvis was like a space alien, surreal even, to overseas
fans that you
can see how the hard-core fandom could take over!

I know that among the best and most knowledgeable fans and collectors
in the blues and jazz world are in Europe but especially Japan!
The ovations and love (!) that greets a
bluesman like Otis Rush touring Japan
is evident decades ago.
These guys came back like conquering heroes,
unable to grasp why they were huge overseas and not at home.
Elvis,of course, was huge all over.

I love non-US-based fans' , well, fanaticism about music that many home-grown Americans
take for granted.

There's a great spot on the FTD "Dinner at Eight" (if memory serves),
where an Elvis fan gives him the UK "Sun Collection" LP, and he says
he's never seen it and comments another line or so on it. Neat to hear!

At least he didn't fling it back like he did with that bootleg you told us
about, Ger!

Image

Tue Oct 18, 2005 10:14 pm

uhmm....

during those 22 years that Elvis walked the Earth as a recording artist/celeb,

how come no one ever asked him:

"Elvis, did you record Uncle Penn? Did you record Tiger Man?"

:?: :?: :?: :?: :?: :?: :?:

get it straight from him and put the rumors, debates and "baseless archaelogical pursuits" to rest.

Tue Oct 18, 2005 10:16 pm

GG, it seems our European pals did all they could...!

With E cashing out in '77, he only made it harder!
Last edited by Gregory Nolan Jr. on Tue Aug 17, 2010 12:18 am, edited 1 time in total.

Tue Oct 18, 2005 11:21 pm

JLGB wrote:There was an Elvis song book from the 1950s(maybe hill and range) that had Uncle Penn and Saturday night something and that is what probably started people looking for something that might not have existed.

It would seem that this publication was not to blame for the original rumour of 'Uncle Pen', although it can be considered as the main source for the other rumoured songs.

This is courtesy of "Long Lonely Highway" (by a well known "Dutch" poster on this very MB) :lol:
Image
Some more (Old) info on 'Uncle Pen':-

Uncle Pen: (SUN December 8 1954) In 1982 RCA said that Elvis recorded it in late 1955 (?) at Sun. They had session notes but couldn't find a tape. A studio recording was supposed to be released in 1955 on a bootleg single, in and around the Niagra Falls area, on the Pirate Co label, and even reached number one on some local radio stations.
It was also advertised that Uncle Pen would be released on June 23 1967 but then put back to June 30 1967, on a single by the Pyramid label (IA 1596) (New Musical Express - May 13 1967) (Elvis Monthly # 92).

Wed Oct 19, 2005 12:41 am

Lee CottenImage

Wed Oct 19, 2005 12:54 am

Yeah, we Dutch rule 8) :mrgreen: :smt033

SUN RECORDS EXPLORED BY THE DUTCH AS EARLY AS 1969 !!!

Thu Oct 20, 2005 10:59 am

... I just had a brief talk with Ernst over the phone asking him what his thoughts are on Uncle Pen? He has talked to many people in The South over the last so many years, asking had they ever heard Elvis performing this song? A lot of other songtitles were mentioned, including Country weepers from the songbook of a then famous lady singer who recorded on the RCA label [ sorry, cant recall her name...] but nobody ever mentioned "Pen". In an indepth interview with Scotty, his reply was a straightforward "No". He added : "The lyrics, mentioning playing a fiddle, never wouldve fitted in the direction, musically, we were heading for during those first 18 months..."
...Uncle Pen, was such a well known song at the time,Scotty said, I would remember doing it back then..

Something that has popped up in my memory, is speaking with Roy Carr,once editor of NME, that had featured the ad for Pen on the Pyramid label, "It was a clever way in getting attention in the media for a new record label". Roy didnt believe there was an Uncle Pen by Elvis...

...Ernst will deal with the Pen mystery in his book on Sun.
He did ask me if somebody out there can tell what take number My Babys
Gone is [ the acetate version] ?? He is, more or less, convinced its out
there, with the other takes of "Im Left Youre Right ", featured on the Sun
Sessions vinyl edition [ with gatefold sleeve] from RCA, as released in the
80s?? If not, hes got to find himself a copy of the Dutch "Please Release
Me" vinyl album...
Anybody out there willing to compare the outtakes of "Im Left" to the "My
Babys Gone" version ?!
The original acetate was sold to the Blues Museum in Memphis Long time ago, and has disappeared since then...

Ernst is doing a lot better, and sends his regards!

Thu Oct 20, 2005 11:08 am

Once again a very interesting post, Ger.

I can't wait for this FTD project.

Ernst is feeling better? Fantastic news!

Keith Richards, Jr.

SUN RECORDS EXPLORED BY THE DUTCH AS EARLY AS 1969 !!!

Thu Oct 20, 2005 11:42 am

... That should be "I Wanna Be A Rock n Roll Star" that featured My Babys Gone for the first time, and not Please Release Me, I think...? Its a bit confusing for us elderly, keeping these 35 year old boot titles apart!...

Thu Oct 20, 2005 11:55 am

JLGB wrote:There was an Elvis song book from the 1950s(maybe hill and range) that had Uncle Penn and Saturday night something and that is what probably started people looking for something that might not have existed.


I don't think Uncle Pen was in that book.

It had things like:

Tennessee Saturday Night
Oakie Boogie
Give Me More, More, More [of your kisses]
Gone, Gone, Gone
Crying Heart Blues

Thu Oct 20, 2005 12:00 pm

'Uncle Pen' isn't in that book, Colin. See my scan above!

SUN RECORDS EXPLORED BY THE DUTCH AS EARLY AS 1969 !!!

Thu Oct 20, 2005 12:02 pm

... Colin, I know you are even older than me, but if you clean your glasses properly, you will find the index page to the Jukebox songbook on this page!
Uncle Pen is not featured. Cheers, mate!

Thu Oct 20, 2005 12:47 pm

Graceland Gardener wrote:uhmm....

during those 22 years that Elvis walked the Earth as a recording artist/celeb,

how come no one ever asked him:

"Elvis, did you record Uncle Penn? Did you record Tiger Man?"

:?: :?: :?: :?: :?: :?: :?:

get it straight from him and put the rumors, debates and "baseless archaelogical pursuits" to rest.


He used to introduce Tigerman as one of the first songs he recorded....and that was in 1970...

Thu Oct 20, 2005 12:59 pm

Renan
He used to introduce Tigerman as one of the first songs he recorded....and that was in 1970...

As TIGER MAN was coupled with MYSTERY TRAIN, he was maybe talking about the latest. Hope not!

Thu Oct 20, 2005 2:01 pm

If I remember correct he said Tiger Man was his second Sun record but not too many people got to hear it. :?:

Thu Oct 20, 2005 2:35 pm

Graceland Gardener wrote:uhmm....

during those 22 years that Elvis walked the Earth as a recording artist/celeb,

how come no one ever asked him:

"Elvis, did you record Uncle Penn? Did you record Tiger Man?"

:?: :?: :?: :?: :?: :?: :?:

get it straight from him and put the rumors, debates and "baseless archaelogical pursuits" to rest.


Many reasons. For one Elvis didn't do interviews. Those people that knew of the song probably never got to speak to Elvis. If they did there would have been a thousand other and more important questions to be asked. Starting with his musical influences as a child and his version of recording My Happiness. Also, an unreleased song wasn't considered that important at time because he was still alive. It's after he died that everything he had done became important in the historic sense. Elvis was also known to give false information either in purpose or by mistake in interviews.

There would have a huge amount of information that researches could have gotten out of him. Jerry Schilling says that he learned more of his boss during the short interview that was taped for EOT than his whole time with Elvis. It would have been awesome if Jerry Hopkins could have had a long talk with Elvis when he was writing his book but Elvis and Colonel declined. We don't really even know what Elvis though of the book. There's a huge amount of information missing which is strange considering that so many books have been written about him. We don't know of his opionions for most of his songs, albums, movies or anything.
Last edited by Marko on Fri Oct 21, 2005 10:17 am, edited 1 time in total.