All posts with more than 3000 Hits, prior to 2008

Did Elvis die on purpose?

No. He wanted to continue living longer.
31
43%
Yes. He hoped to escape the world and his pain and problems.
9
13%
Nil. His death was total 100% accident.
32
44%
 
Total votes : 72

Tue Aug 23, 2005 9:05 pm

He probably wanted to get away from the life he was living but he knew he wasn't strong enough and didn't even try. Yet he didn't want to die. He had his daughter and he didn't want to hurt/leave her. Dispite the situation in 1977 I am sure he wanted to accomplish more in his life that he and his family could be proud of. I don't think he could look at his life the way others did. He didn't realize that he was the most important man in music history. And the last few years must have made him think that he just was lucky for a while and that only the most die hard fans still liked him.

He certainly wanted to prove it again for himself and the World that he still had talent. He might have done that too if only he had pulled himself together and changed his life dramatically.

Just imagine a clean, healthy, well rehearsed Elvis touring the World. Then making a demanding serious movie about a junkie trying to clean up his act. After that an album with top musicians and material where they worked until it wasn't possible to make it any better (like From Elvis in Memphis).

Oh boy if only.... It seems so easy but if Elvis hadn't died in 1977 he probably would have in '78 or '79 and then he might really have looked bad.

Tue Aug 23, 2005 11:00 pm

I don't think Elvis would take his own life. It doesn't take much reading to realize what kind of pressure he was under; he had to mortgage Graceland to get money he owed to Priscilla, the bodyguard book was out in full force, he was due to testify before a grand jury in a couple of days regarding the airplane swindle, and he was about to embark on a concert tour looking worse than he ever had in public. But I don't believe he did himself in.

I also don't believe he was as addicted to drugs as rumor has it. Several hours previously he was playing raquetball, and a few hours earlier than that he had driven himself, Ginger and others to the dentists office. Reckless maybe, but not possible if you are whacked out on Class 1 narcotics. Don't start on me about what the autopsy found, because none of you have ever seen the autopsy. What the autopsy reads does not describe Elvis Presley at all.

I also constantly read on here about the "grind" that Elvis had to endure on the concert tours. That he dreaded to do them and that he didn't want to continue to do that, as someone mentioned 75, 76, 77. I wonder if that is why The Rolling Stones, The Eagles, Aerosmith, McCartney, and others continue to tour and rake in humongous amounts of money? Do they dread that grind? Elvis was first and foremost a musician. That's what he did. That's who he was. His frustration was more toward the Colonel, not in what he did in the way of concerts, but because of what he couldn't do in the way of concerts, because of the Colonel.

No, Elvis didn't kill himself.

Tue Aug 23, 2005 11:53 pm

The people close to Elvis are very sure that he did not kill himself. If you read Alanna Nashs' book the issue is dealt with by Lamar Fike. He states that if Elvis would have chosen to kill himself, he would have done it in a completely other way. In my opinion he definately did not kill himself.

Wed Aug 24, 2005 12:20 am

I guess, in essence, thru the many years of taking stuff he probably didn't need or taking too much, Elvis was slowly killing himself, but I dearly in my heart don't believe that he intentionally set out to depart this world by overdosing on pills on August 16, 1977.

Wed Aug 24, 2005 12:22 am

joeroberts wrote:If that were the case then I'm sure his convictions would prevent him from being high almost constantly at that point.


Not if he believed the meds had a legit medical reason to be taken. And to him, they did.


Axe

Wed Aug 24, 2005 6:42 am

Graceland Gardener wrote:the Lisa-was-there factor only goes so far.
He knew she was down the hall but he called for his 3 pill packs anyway.


I don't think that this was too unusual. It wasn't the 3 pill packs that got him that fateful day. It was the pill packs every day for the past 17 years that put him on the carpet.

I'll always believe that he had every intention of being on stage in Portland, Maine the very next night.

Wed Aug 24, 2005 9:00 pm

Regardless of whether he planned to end his life that day, may God bless him, for the years of pleasure he's given us all!!!

Thu Aug 25, 2005 12:13 am

eapjs wrote:Regardless of whether he planned to end his life that day, may God bless him, for the years of pleasure he's given us all!!!


Agreed 100%.
But I dont believe he committed suicide either. He was depressed but if he had wanted to kill himself I think he would have either blown his brains out or taken an oveerdose and lain down in his bed to wait for the end. And he'd have waited till Lisa was gone.

Thu Aug 25, 2005 1:23 am

Elvis clearly did not take his own life because it turns out he did indeed die of heart attack. A heart attack aided by years of drug and food abuse and the onset of obesity but a heart attack nonetheless. That was the deterimination of a group of toxicologists that re-examined the original autopsy results in 1994 based upon on the controversy created by Charles Thompson and James P. Cole's book among others.

The State of Tennessee then asked Dr. Joseph Davis, former chief medical examiner in Dade County, Florida and a past president of of both the American Academy of Forensic Sciences and the National Association of Medical Examiners to exam the results. Davis, at that time a professor of pathology at the Miami School of Medicine wrote "Elvis Presley could not have died of polypharmacy." For some reason the state of Tennessee sealed the results but Davis agreed to talk to Authors Peter Harry Brown and Pat Broeske when they obtained a copy of the report.

Dr. Davis said to Broeske and Brown- "There is nothing in any of the data which supports a death from drugs. In fact, everything points to a sudden violent heart attack. Forget the Bio-science lab results. The scene itself tells you what happened."

Davis said: "The position of Presley's body told me that he was about to sit down on the commode when the seizure occurred. He pitched forward onto the carpet, his rear in the air, and was dead by the time he hit the floor."

Davis told Broeske and Brown that in a drug overdose Elvis would have slipped into an increasing state of slumber. He would have pulled up his pajama bottoms and crawled to the door to seek help.

"It takes hours to die from drugs," he said. "The only way drugs could have killed Elvis Presley that fast was if he were sitting on the commode shooting up a lethal dose of heroin."

Davis provided Brown and Broeske with a list of "scientific proof that Elvis Presley died of a heart attack"

1. "He was grossly obese, with many of his 350 pounds gained in less than two months, an enormous strain on the heart."

2. The body had undergone at least two hours of rigor mortis before it was discovered. "A drug death would have taken much longer and rigor probably wouldn't have been present at all."

3. There was no drug residue in Elvis' system. "Not even a spot of the dye they use in most medicines. In fact there was no internal sign that that he had taken drugs several hours before he died." (Elvis had taken the contents of three of his drug packets before he had gone to sleep, some five or six hours earlier.)

4. Finally, there was no pulmonary edema in his lungs, an almost certain trademark of a drug death. "It was the driest set of lungs I've ever seen," said Davis. "With this sort of death you would have seen a tremendous amount of pulmonary edema. Dry lungs are proof enough that he didn't die of respiratory failure due to chemicals."

Davis concluded: "This was a textbook case of death by heart attack."

Davis was not hired by the Presley family but is a credible source with an impeccable hired by the state. The board of examiners found the same results noting that the original conclusion of the bio-science lab report was a "good hypothesis" but not scientific fact. The examiners noted that it was also a more reasonable guess in 1977 because of the limits of technology of that time. All of the controversy was built around a single paragraph in the report about the 14 drugs in Elvis' system.

The examiners even examined the flaws in the Cole/Thompson hypothesis such as Elvis' allergy to codeine. Elvis was only mildly allergic to codeine, not enough to cause more than minor itching.

This was the primary research breakthrough of the Broeske/Brown book- "Down at the End of Lonely Street: The Life and Death of Elvis Presley" and is all recounted in those pages.

Thu Aug 25, 2005 1:38 am

I am amazed that these so called professional people were able or even prepared to give such statements given the knowledge they had that all the evidence was not there.

Elvis did not die as soon as or before he hit the floor especially if it was a heart attack, that's not deduced by knowing he also vomitted whilst on the floor but because it would have taken 8 to 10 minutes more of the brain being starved oxygen in the blood before he died.

A heart attack is not a siezure of the heart but the opposite, the heart beats extremely fast, this can be but not necessarily caused by certain drugs.

The drugs Elvis had taken were lifted from the "Ethel Moore" toxicology report, but what they would not have been able to determine is the quantity Elvis took because all they had was what was left in his body - not what he had vomited back up and was removed and cleaned up by operation TCB.

Thu Aug 25, 2005 1:44 am

I find it odd so many people voted 100% accident.

Hello, umm....
Elvis did not get hit by a truck while crossing the street.

His plane did not fall out of the sky with he in it.

Death came in the form of a pharmaceutical russian roulette, a game he chose to play and every gulp was a flirt with the grim reaper.

Thu Aug 25, 2005 2:11 am

Yes GG, but Elvis didn't realise that was what he was doing.

I go outside everyday - that reduces my chances of living, though I could suffer one of those accident in the homes things - but then it's no accident according to you - I would deliberately be putting my life at risk by staying indoors.

Thu Aug 25, 2005 3:43 am

Other members of the panel explain how the original autopsy did not take into account that certain amounts of the drugs in his system had metabolized into his system and were therefore not conducive to a drug overdose.

I am a layman but the credentials of these people makes me have faith in their judgement. There was nothing in 1994 to be gained by such a report. And to my admittedly limited knowledge points #2 and #4 are very difficult to explain away.

Thu Aug 25, 2005 9:42 am

likethebike wrote:1. "He was grossly obese, with many of his 350 pounds gained in less than two months, an enormous strain on the heart."

Surely this in incorrect! This would mean a 110/120 lb weight gain in 6 weeks. Photo's and accounts from friends about Elvis during this time do not support such a dramatic weight gain. Elvis' mantra at the time of "We'll make this the best tour ever" would be very hollow if he hit the scales at 25 stone!

Steve_M wrote:Elvis did not die as soon as or before he hit the floor especially if it was a heart attack.

I'm no medical expert Steve, but when my Grandmother died a few years ago of a sudden, violent heart attack, the family were told that she would have likely been dead before he hit the floor and there was nothing anybody could have done, several people being in the room at the time.

Thu Aug 25, 2005 10:25 am

I thought the 350 figure seemed excessive as well. I think 255 was closer to his actual weight. He was vastly overweight though and had picked up the vast majority of it was picked up relatively quickly. Weight is a big cause for heart attacks.

The Broeske/Brown has some sloppiness. However, it is very hard for me to dismiss the interpretations of these men with great reputations and nothing to gain by attributing Elvis' death to a heart attack. At this point is there even anything for a fan to gain. It was clear that he abused (mostly) prescription drugs throughout the latter part of his life and in one way or another that abuse helped hasten his death. Elvis' saintly reputation was (thankfully?) lost many years ago.

did he

Thu Aug 25, 2005 10:34 am

Must have been quite a tree that hit your head! Christ, this is one sick poll!

Thu Aug 25, 2005 11:12 am

Whether it was an accident, or indeed the final defeat in a deadly game with death, it sure wasn't suicide. All the evidence points away from that. If he was going to do it, I simply cannot believe he would have done so with his daughter in the house.

Thu Aug 25, 2005 11:19 am

Delboy wrote:
Steve_M wrote:Elvis did not die as soon as or before he hit the floor especially if it was a heart attack.

I'm no medical expert Steve, but when my Grandmother died a few years ago of a sudden, violent heart attack, the family were told that she would have likely been dead before he hit the floor and there was nothing anybody could have done, several people being in the room at the time.


I believe you Del, but that don't make it factually right for them to say that.
How did Elvis vomit whilst he was on the floor ?

Thu Aug 25, 2005 11:48 am

I disagree with the given choices GG.

How about:

What caused Elvis' death?

A. Health problems
B. Accidental drug overdose
C. Combination of A&B
D. Suicide
E. Murder
F. Other
G. None of the above, Elvis did not die on Aug. 16, 1977.

Thu Aug 25, 2005 2:19 pm

good point Scotch.

basically, my 2nd post here explained the question/options better

once dead, if Elvis suddenly realized, in the afterlife, that he was gone from the phsyical world...
would he....

A. be glad it was over

B. be disappointed that it was over

?

I think he'd be glad.

Was he ready to check out?

the last will was already made & signed in '76.

He certainly chose a variety of lyrics to suggest that.

"and now the end is near..."


I do not buy the 100% accident theory.

after 28 years now, and 28 Augusts when the topic comes up and people ask me about his death, I'm tired of the discussion.
In 1977-78 I actually believed that it was heart attack - no drugs.
But that's a lie. Truth is he overdosed.

Tue Mar 06, 2007 4:02 pm

Re: Dr. Davis & amicus curiae in general:

likethebike wrote:Elvis clearly did not take his own life because it turns out he did indeed die of heart attack.


Agreed on the first part, but "no way" on the second. It was accidental polypharmacy - period.

likethebike wrote:Dr. Davis said to Broeske and Brown- "There is nothing in any of the data which supports a death from drugs. In fact, everything points to a sudden violent heart attack. Forget the Bio-science lab results. The scene itself tells you what happened."


A blatantly irresponsible statement (one of many made by Dr. Davis).

likethebike wrote:Davis provided Brown and Broeske with a list of "scientific proof that Elvis Presley died of a heart attack"

1. "He was grossly obese, with many of his 350 pounds gained in less than two months, an enormous strain on the heart."


The above is yet another (irresponsible statement), which answers your confusion below:

likethebike wrote:I thought the 350 figure seemed excessive as well. I think 255 was closer to his actual weight.


You are correct.

Lesson: When you find one fact where a supposed "authority" makes a mistake, and it is a pretty simple "fact", ........... that should be a clue that should set your skeptical alarms going off.

Davis has also made other statements to the effect that EP's stomach contents showed no traces of drugs. Again, blatantly false, since there never were any stomach contents examined (they were flushed, by accident). (?!?!)

In fact, I doubt that Davis seriously examined anything pertaining to the autopsy, ............ because - to put it bluntly - some of his conclusions are simply BIZARRE.

---------------------------------

likethebike wrote:Davis concluded: "This was a textbook case of death by heart attack."


Yeah right, .... a "textbook" case without any gross (organ anatomy, inside & out) or histological (microscopic tissue examination) evidence of myocardial infarction / tissue necrosis (ie: "heart attack").

Again ---> BIZARRO-WORLD stuff!!

----------------------------------

likethebike wrote:This was the primary research breakthrough of the Broeske/Brown book- "Down at the End of Lonely Street: The Life and Death of Elvis Presley" and is all recounted in those pages.


This book is completely inaccurate and the above is ample evidence.

----------------------------------

Generally speaking, ..... if one knows where to look, one can find an "expert" to say anything you want to in a court-of-law in order to take advantage of ignorance or promulgate a blatantly false position.

----------------------------------

Also, take note:

If the autopsy results showed any real evidence of a heart attack, ......... the report wouldn't be sealed for 50 years.


N8

Wed Mar 07, 2007 3:21 pm

likethebike wrote: ..... the credentials of these people makes me have faith in their judgement.


General Lesson #2 (ie: not directed at the OP):

No Authorities, ........... always think for oneself.

(Sometimes, however, this does require that a genuine effort be made to educate oneself in a fundamental way about the topic - whatever it may be.)


N8

Wed Mar 07, 2007 6:23 pm

What are you doing, N8?

I dunno ... making one very large and specific post one and a half YEARS after the topic was last posted in ... and then adding a second a day later (rather than editing it into your last) ... seems to suggest ... YOU'RE TRYING TO GET NOTICED.

But I could be wrong. :wink:































Image


P.S. Good job!!! :lol:

Wed Mar 07, 2007 8:10 pm

Thank you for bringing back such a great thread (not).

Wed Mar 07, 2007 10:13 pm

Rob wrote:Thank you for bringing back such a great thread (not).


N8 was correcting extreme fallaciousness / disingenuity / lies.

You can accuse me of genuflection if you like, but don't go after someone else's own rectitude -- not when they're bringing illumination to a topic rarely understood, even by EP's biggest fans.