All posts with more than 3000 Hits, prior to 2008

Wed Jun 29, 2005 6:06 am

I think its time for Ernst/FTD to release the complete Feb. 14th, 15th, 16th & 17th, 1972 Las Vegas shows in its entirety, regardless of song repetition.


They do not have complete shows from February 72. To assume that they do is pure speculation and fantasy. Jarvis recorded parts of a lot of shows. And while most of the February 15, 1970 Midnight show is complete, it still IS NOT complete. The winter 1970 shows were only partially recorded. The same thing happened during the winter 1972 Vegas shows and of course Jarvis did the same thing during the spring of 1977. What made sense then, may not make sense today with regards to RCA's reasoning behind recording just specific tunes, but unfortnutely that is the way it happened.

It will be interesting to see what BMG releases from the February 1972 Vegas season as a lot of it has been officially released. Obviously there is more and some alternates of songs that are already available were recorded exist, but it is hard to imagine these recordings filling up an entire FTD release.

Wed Jun 29, 2005 7:17 am

Pete Dube wrote:I'm looking forward to the upcoming August '72 show. Any show from 1972 is a must-have in my view. This is Elvis in '72 -the best 1970's concert year post 1970!


I agree, Pete. 1972 is my favorite year for Elvis concerts. The show had a more serious tone to it and he had not yet got into the "well" routine prior to I Got A Woman. No J.D. dive bombing noises, no O Sole Mio from Sherrill and no long band intros. It is a more down to business Elvis with just a little joking around every now and then and there was still quite a bit of energy in his shows. He was still very professional at this time as well as still looking quite good.

Wed Jun 29, 2005 8:54 am

They do not have complete shows from February 72. To assume that they do is pure speculation and fantasy. Jarvis recorded parts of a lot of shows. And while most of the February 15, 1970 Midnight show is complete, it still IS NOT complete. The winter 1970 shows were only partially recorded. The same thing happened during the winter 1972 Vegas shows and of course Jarvis did the same thing during the spring of 1977. What made sense then, may not make sense today with regards to RCA's reasoning behind recording just specific tunes, but unfortnutely that is the way it happened.

It will be interesting to see what BMG releases from the February 1972 Vegas season as a lot of it has been officially released. Obviously there is more and some alternates of songs that are already available were recorded exist, but it is hard to imagine these recordings filling up an entire FTD release.









What I shouldve said was Ernst should release whatever was recorded during that time, even if it meant song repetition. I do understand they didnt record entire shows, but its still worthy of a release regardless.

Wed Jun 29, 2005 1:30 pm

I for one can handle 'song repetition' when they are recorded on multi-track like Feb 72, so what if it took several versions of An American Trilogy to pad out a Feb 72' FTD release... I'd buy it and enjoy it..... :lol:

Wed Jun 29, 2005 2:15 pm

see-see-rider wrote:Well, in fact they did. :oops: With only All Shook Up missing at the start this is a complete show from I Got A Woman to Can't Help Falling In Love . They've added some bonus songs from other shows and rehearsals at the end but that doesn't mean they didn't record complete shows, I guess. And this exactly is the kind of problem that I have with A Life In Music (which nonetheless is a great book of course): The book doesn't even give specifics about songs that were recorded during Feb. 15th and 19th. Then all of a sudden a complete (well, almost complete) concert of Feb. 15th M/S shows up. Jorgensen might not have known about it when he wrote the book. But the result is: I no longer believe in the information given by EJ concerning the only two or three "selectively" recorded songs ;) each night (Feb. 16th to 19th) he names in his book ...

Anyway, this is not about the Feb. 1970 engagement.


I was using the February 1970 example to draw comparisons to what we have been told about RCA’s approach to recording and how this was the same as in February 1972, rather than trying to stray away from the original topic.

Yes, we got an almost complete show from February 15th 1970, but as there is at least one song missing, this still supports the theory that they did not record complete shows. Why would RCA omit “All Shook Up” if it actually on the tape. There is no reason for them to do this.

I think Ernst’s work differs from Joe Tunzi’s in that he is employed by RCA, and there are times we he can only give so much away. I would agree that in the case of both February 1970 and February 1972 that more than one or two songs would have been recorded at each show, and I think the material we have had so far supports this, but I am prepared to believe both Ernst and Joe when they say that there are no complete multi track shows from these two periods in the RCA vaults.

Of course this could mean that there are more shows from both seasons that only have one or two songs missing (lets hope so), and I’m sure there is more than enough to for an excellent FTD release from February of 1972.

However, I don’t think we should expect a complete show to emerge given the information we have been given so far. I’m sure I speak for many fans when I say that if Ernst and Joe are proved wrong on this, it would be excellent news, and it’s always interesting to hear other fan’s theories and opinions. Either way when BMG finally gets around to covering February 1972 we are in for a great release, and I’m sure we will all agree on that.
Last edited by rockinrebel on Wed Jun 29, 2005 11:41 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Wed Jun 29, 2005 2:46 pm

[quote="rockinrebel] Either way when BMG finally gets around to covering February 1972 we are in for a great release, and I’m sure we will all agree on that.[/quote]

Amen to that!

Jules

Thu Jun 30, 2005 2:40 am

one way would be to give us a MASSIVE overdose of 4 great songs such as:-
A Big Hunk o' love (5 versions)
Never been to Spain (7 versions)
You gave me a mountain (7 versions)
American Trilogy (6 versions) :lol: 8) :shock:

Thu Jun 30, 2005 2:38 pm

other songs were recorded, such as cc rider, proud mary, can't help falling in love, as well as fragments of help me make it through the night and until it's time for you to go

Thu Jun 30, 2005 10:26 pm

Well, in my opinion: Tunzi is known to mention rather more material as being recorded than less - so, if he says: there are only parts of shows from the feb1972 engagement, it might be reality, I'm afraid.

I support Rebel's theory - and I think, there is a simple meaning to it:

let's imagine, you had to produce an elvis album in which you want to compile new songs. Elvis told you which songs are new in his repertoire, you're present at some reheasals and you decide: okay - the album will include: Never Been To Spain etc. .....

All you need is a perfect live-master of each song that you want to have on the album. - Why should you record the whole show!? I'm working at a radio station, doing a lot of interviews - I record only what I really need, because it saves my time later when I have to edit it - there's nothing more simple than that ....

I would love to get more of the Feb72 stuff too - and my suggestion is:

Ernst, give us the "Standing Room Only" -album as it was planned in 1972 on the FTD label! - And make it up just he same as ELVIS IS BACK and TODAY. .... make it a 2 CD set and give us the impression of how the real STANDING ROOM ONLY could have been like!

I know, the BURNING LOVE -compilation is similar. But as it is a 18-track-reissue, it's not exactly like it was planned back in 1972, I guess ....

Thu Jun 30, 2005 10:58 pm

Just a thought.

If recording live multitrack - you will need time to change reels during a performance.

The best time to do that would be during songs that you will have in the can already.

Thu Jun 30, 2005 11:55 pm

KiwiAlan wrote:Just a thought.

If recording live multitrack - you will need time to change reels during a performance.

How did they record those six complete shows during the August 1970 engagement then?

Fri Jul 01, 2005 2:01 am

The shows aren't 100 % complete. For example, RCA missed the first couple of bars of Polk Salad Annie when recording the 8-12 midnight show. When releasing the concert on the TTWII SE box in 2000, they "borrowed" the intro of that song from the Opening Show recording.

It is also worth mentioning, both RCA and MGM were spinning tape recorders during the same shows. Clearly, MGM switched tapes elsewhere than RCA, as we get the complete intro of Polk Salad on the TTWII DVD.

Fri Jul 01, 2005 9:26 pm

etp wrote:let's imagine, you had to produce an elvis album in which you want to compile new songs. Elvis told you which songs are new in his repertoire, you're present at some reheasals and you decide: okay - the album will include: Never Been To Spain etc. .....

All you need is a perfect live-master of each song that you want to have on the album. - Why should you record the whole show!? I'm working at a radio station, doing a lot of interviews - I record only what I really need, because it saves my time later when I have to edit it - there's nothing more simple than that ....



I agree. I think a lot of fan’s have missed this point.

In 1969 RCA recorded complete shows because they wanted to put out a live album that was representative of the Elvis Presley show, and therefore it had to include old songs, new songs and covers along with the opening and closing numbers.

In February 1970 and 1972 the approach was more similar to that of a studio session. They were only interested in new songs for a new album that just happened to have been recorded in front of an audience. Recreating Elvis’ stage show was not essential to their plans

Note that when the plan changed and RCA took their mobile equipment on the road in April 1972, they were recording full shows as they were considering a soundtrack to the “On Tour” documentary which (had it appeared) would have needed to be representative of the film.

It’s easy to look back now and say what should and shouldn’t have been recorded, but back in 1972 it looked as though Elvis still had a long career ahead of him, and another live version of “All Shook Up” was not a vital part of his record company’s plans.

Fri Jul 01, 2005 10:30 pm

what happened through jarvis mind when he recorded teddy bear - don't be cruel, all shook up, and hound dog, and not other numbers? They wanted to make a fictional composite of a show, and not a pseudo studio album a la On Stage, as they recorded 15 different titles, plus excerpts of Until it's time for You to Go and help me make it through the night (this one not recorded due to some legal issue with kristoferson:

CC Rider
Proud Mary
Love Me
All Shook Up
Little Sister Get Back
Never Been To Spain
You Gave Me a Mountain
Teddy bear - don't be cruel
Hound Dog
It's Impossible
It's Over
The Impossible Dream
An American Trilogy
A Big Hunk O Love
Can't Help Falling In Love


With these 15 songs, how many more there were on an elvis february 72 show? I guess maybe 4 or 5 more:

lawdy miss clawdy,
polk salad annie (strangely not recorded as it had a new arrangement, but jarvis saw more potential on all shook up, maybe as he missed the record key two years earlier :lol: )
One night (maybe?)
Suspicious Minds

So the way to release these tracks on a ftd is:

the 15 afforementioned songs, with available versions, simulating a almost complete show, from cc rider to chfil

and then including 4 bonus songs, being alternates of
big hunk
never been
american trylogy
mountain

plus those rare excerpts and maybe a couple of rare versions taken from soundboards

what do you think?

Fri Jul 01, 2005 10:55 pm

by the way I changed message title in order to include the current feb 72 discusion

Sat Jul 02, 2005 7:11 am

Ivan -
I would imagine that Love Me Tender; Heartbreak Hotel; and Blue Suede Shoes were performed pretty regularly in February '72.

Sat Jul 02, 2005 7:33 am

Gregory Nolan Jr. wrote:That said, the import world made this happen and it continues to lead the way, pushing and prodding RCA/BMG to make FTD as good as it can be.

As far as FTD, it is actually Ernst Jørgensen who is the driving force behind its inception, and continued existence.

DJC

Sat Jul 02, 2005 7:54 am

frus75 wrote:what happened through jarvis mind when he recorded teddy bear - don't be cruel, all shook up, and hound dog, and not other numbers?


Well, maybe they simply pushed the record button a little earlier!? :oops:

I guess, they just recorded what they really needed, and maybe a little more when Jarvis realized that this particular show was a good one with an Elvis in a good mood - however.

I don't really know about that, but I guess, you coudn't just push the record button and let the tape roll. You had to overview the recording, maybe change the recording level a little and whatsoever ...and if there was no real reason to put that much effort into the show as a whole, well, the sound engineers simply stopped the tape and drank some whiskey instead :)

Sat Jul 02, 2005 8:19 am

drjohncarpenter wrote:
Gregory Nolan Jr. wrote:That said, the import world made this happen and it continues to lead the way, pushing and prodding RCA/BMG to make FTD as good as it can be.

As far as FTD, it is actually Ernst Jørgensen who is the driving force behind its inception, and continued existence.

DJC


I'm fine with that assessment, Doc and I'm sure it's literally true. I have come off as bashing the bootleg world of late (not true) so I guess I have to give it credit for creating an atomosphere for an FTD proposal to make any sense. I'm not of the camp that complains about the FTD sets or, heaven forbid, makes CDRs of them. Despite my criticism of the handling of the mainstream RCA Elvis catalog, to the extent Jorgensen has anyway sway), I do fully enjoy FTD, even the "less popular" releases...

Sat Jul 02, 2005 5:42 pm

I have read that Elvis supposedly performed Retrun To Sender and Young & beautiful sometime during the Jan/Feb 1972 engagement? Has anything surfaced to back up this claim?

Sat Jul 02, 2005 8:16 pm

The August '72 recordings capture Elvis during the month when his separation from The Widow became official, when the press accounts about Mike Stone began appearing and when, by all accounts, he was deeply smitten with his new girlfriend, Linda Thompson.

The shows, for the most part, find Elvis going about his work intently, without the goofing around that had already characterized some of the Vegas seasons. Perhaps this deeply private man was determined to convey a business as usual posture to his fans and the press. Undoubetdly, he was also bent on impressing Linda. (He did a better job than Don Johnson.)

The only blight on the summer season was Elvis' obviously impaired behavior at the September press conference. But, that could have been something as simple as having been awakened too early in the day, while he was under the influence of his "sleeping medication."

Wed Jul 06, 2005 5:51 am

I have read that Elvis supposedly performed Retrun To Sender and Young & beautiful sometime during the Jan/Feb 1972 engagement? Has anything surfaced to back up this claim?
With the vast majority of this seasons shows both 'unavailable' and 'undocumented' it must be considered as 'highly likely' that MANY performances were missed! :(
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Sat Jul 23, 2005 12:11 pm

The October release will be a Soundboard recording from Aug 11, 1972, Dinner show.

Sat Jul 23, 2005 1:04 pm

cramer wrote:The October release will be a Soundboard recording from Aug 11, 1972, Dinner show.


Thats too bad, this one has been released.(Blazing Into The Darkness)

Sat Jul 23, 2005 1:26 pm

:lol: Well i have an audience tape of that show and it's a great show so look forward to it in 'great sound'! 8)