Off Topic Messages

Re: Man Of Steel ---- what a letdown!!!

Wed Jan 01, 2014 1:08 pm

jak wrote:It's about time George got his due.


George rules! http://www.elvisechoesofthepast.com/hey-its-superman/


:smt023
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Re: Man Of Steel ---- what a letdown!!!

Wed Jan 01, 2014 6:53 pm

drjohncarpenter wrote:Things have been going downhill since "Superman and the Mole Men." That one will never be topped.


LOL, get out those George Reeves boxsets and enjoy on this New Years Day. (love them myself). That is one interesting show. If you look at the first 2 seasons, you will see it as a film noir crime show. It slowly evolved into a kiddie show, but now & then there were some good crime story scripts. Ah, the 50's!
Last edited by r&b on Wed Jan 01, 2014 8:05 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Re: Man Of Steel ---- what a letdown!!!

Wed Jan 01, 2014 7:53 pm

I'm not a huge fan of Ben Affleck,but he did a good job in Hollywoodland. Very interesting movie about George Reeves. Worth a watch.

Re: Man Of Steel ---- what a letdown!!!

Wed Jan 01, 2014 10:27 pm

jak wrote:I'm not a huge fan of Ben Affleck,but he did a good job in Hollywoodland. Very interesting movie about George Reeves. Worth a watch.


He's made some poor decisions and found his career going up and down (to the very top and the very bottom), but I've always liked Ben Affleck and enjoyed Hollywoodland myself. He brought a great deal of sadness and conflict to his portrayal of George Reeves, and within this portmanteau narrative, it's the story of Reeves' final days that resonated greater than the investigation surrounding his death. At this time, Adrian Brody, who played the fictional detective on the scene of Reeves' death, had far more credibility than Affleck, but it's Ben who gave the more interesting and earnest portrayal of a troubled character. Diane Lane was excellent here, too; playing Reeves' lover, Toni Mannix. But the affection for the era and intricacies within the narrative helped make for a fascinating movie, despite a disruptive narrative technique. But this is more akin to being a mood piece, similar in some ways to Where the Truth Lies, but with much to offer anyone interested in the characters and the period. And Bob Hoskins finally gets an American accent right!

Re: Man Of Steel ---- what a letdown!!!

Wed Jan 01, 2014 11:37 pm

Affleck surprised the heck out of me with his performance in Hollywoodland. I went in with low expectations but I was wrong. He really gave a fine performance. Of all his films I have seen I consider it his best performance. I never would have thought he could have played Reeves. I have my doubts about his upcoming Batman role,maybe I will be wrong again.

Re: Man Of Steel ---- what a letdown!!!

Wed Jan 01, 2014 11:54 pm

I do like Ben Affleck - and thought he did really well with his role in "Hollywoodland"

Hollywoodland is an entertaining movie - one thing you'll want keep in mind when you watch it, though, is that some facts have been altered/changed around to suit a narrative (as with any movie, but still worth noting). Like the "unseen footage of George" that the detective is shown at the end to pause the viewer from making a hasty decision one way or the other about how he died.

Here's the real footage that's referring to, which paints a different picture:

phpBB [video]



I tried to find the same thing from "Hollywoodland", but couldn't find a way to show just that. The whole movie is on Youtube, though.

Re: Man Of Steel ---- what a letdown!!!

Fri Jan 10, 2014 11:06 am

MAN OF STEELE is a miserable and depressing movie. I knew as soon it opened with Superman's mother screaming in the pain of birth that it went wrong. Every moment a threat of violence or an act of violence, a crisis, a trauma, a cataclysm. It's too savage in its treatment of the characters. I don't enjoy watching my favorite characters tormented and being savagely murdered again and again and grieving for two hours. Enough is enough. Technically the image is dim, murky and poorly defined; a digital shoot. I expect the image will hold up better on blu-ray, but the film was unnecessary and a waste. Throw it out with the rest of garbage.

Glad to hear all this appreciation for the George Reeves program. True, it devolved into childishness, but it had a positive spirit, provided good role models (never underestimate the importance of, and impact of, good role models) and kept its innocence. These were pleasant characters to spend one's time with.

Metaphorically speaking, Superman flies because he is above mortal foibles. As soon as he sleeps with Lois, he is no longer Superman. Their love must remain platonic or not emphasized at all.

Superman needs to be rescued from Warner Brothers. More to the point, DC Comics needs to be rescued from Warner Brothers. They've done nothing but screw it up in film after film. What's needed is a different creative team who can work within the traditions and respect them. The kids running that studio live in a peculiar ego bubble and impose their own personal agendas on the material. I'm really sick of them.

Re: Man Of Steel ---- what a letdown!!!

Fri Jan 10, 2014 11:27 am

drjohncarpenter wrote:Things have been going downhill since "Superman and the Mole Men." That one will never be topped.


We found something to agree on.

Atom Man VS Superman (Columbia, 1950) was a well-done chapter serial. It could have been cut into a first-rate feature -- a long one, like 2.5 hours -- and it would be a very strong Superman presentation indeed. Kirk Alyn was a fine Clark Kent / Superman.

Image

Primitive though they may be by today's standards, the storytelling in the old chapter serials makes Superman Returns and Man of Steele look like the garbage they are. Buy It Now:

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000I8 ... e=&seller=

Image

Re: Man Of Steel ---- what a letdown!!!

Sun Jan 12, 2014 11:20 pm

Metaphorically speaking, Superman flies because he is above mortal foibles.
The more the emphasis is placed on his personal life the less super he becomes.
Superman must be a good role model to youngsters on the basis of good deeds.
His super strength must be matched by his strength of character and his moral
compass. As soon as he sleeps with Lois, he is no longer Superman. Their love
must remain platonic or not be emphasized at all. Superman was a lot more
entertaining when the scenarios were about fighting crime and injustice among
humans. The scenarios were free of sexual politics and agendas. Threats from
space were kept to a minimum. The biggest threat was from someone harnessing
Kryptonite. It is not necessary to be cataclysmic and traumatic all the time.


Anyone disagree with that?

Re: Man Of Steel ---- what a letdown!!!

Tue Jan 14, 2014 1:22 am

You'll get some pushback from me on this part:

Their love must remain platonic or not be emphasized at all.


I realize you're speaking mainly of him sleeping with Lois in "Superman II" and not the comics where they were married, but I read much of the "Post-Crisis Superman" in the comics, and when they were at their best, it was a great balance. In many points of his personal life, that Clark showed strength in a whole other way (I say "that Clark" to refer to that version of Clark). Superman was the uniform he put on to stop large and small threats; Clark was the social crusader and an award-winning writer. Showing what Superman can do, and what he can't, in beautiful character moments, and times when Clark and his story were the hero/answer.

In that timeline (it was rebooted in 2011), Clark Kent married Lois Lane. When DC was using a decent writer, they were a great team - making it easier to protect his secret identity. Their love, as cliche' as I know this will sound, was as strong an asset as any of his powers and made for some great moments. She wasn't always being saved, either; they helped each other. It really was a great dynamic. On a side note, my wife and I actually chose our wedding date, Oct 9th, because it was the street date for "Superman: The Wedding Album". (we're kinda big fans lol)

It *can* be done well. The problem is that DC (and Warner) have the lazy mindset that much of hollywood has: that "mature" and "adult" only mean "dark," "tortured," - and "realistic" is code for "gritty" and "depressing". Greatness may be forged in fire, but that doesn't mean that you can live in there; (continuing the analogy:) eventually everything just melts in the fire and you lost what precious metal you had. Balance is important. But one look at the movies "300" and "Sucker Punch" should tell anybody that the director doesn't really grasp the idea of balance as a concept.. lol. And here's even more proof - the first line of a review from "Rotten Tomatoes" about the movie "Sucker Punch" does a half-way decent job conveying my own feelings about "Man Of Steel":

"It's technically impressive and loaded with eye-catching images, but without characters or a plot to support them." Not quite right, but close enough for me. :)

Re: Man Of Steel ---- what a letdown!!!

Tue Jan 14, 2014 2:45 am

r&b wrote:
drjohncarpenter wrote:Things have been going downhill since "Superman and the Mole Men." That one will never be topped.


LOL, get out those George Reeves boxsets and enjoy on this New Years Day. (love them myself). That is one interesting show. If you look at the first 2 seasons, you will see it as a film noir crime show. It slowly evolved into a kiddie show, but now & then there were some good crime story scripts. Ah, the 50's!


The first season with Phyllis Coates is gritty and special. After that it really varied, although the cast was always enjoyable, especially George Reeves. Imagine if George had lived just another 20-30 years, he would have found himself the object of incredible adult affection from the people who grew up loving his work on TV.

And he would have been astonished by the longevity of the series in reruns, creating generation after generation of new fans. Any comics convention where he was a guest would have been akin to Elvis coming to an event at the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame in Cleveland.


530000_George Reeves.JPG
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Last edited by drjohncarpenter on Wed Jan 15, 2014 5:32 am, edited 1 time in total.

Re: Man Of Steel ---- what a letdown!!!

Tue Jan 14, 2014 2:47 am

greystoke wrote:
jak wrote:I'm not a huge fan of Ben Affleck,but he did a good job in Hollywoodland. Very interesting movie about George Reeves. Worth a watch.


He's made some poor decisions and found his career going up and down (to the very top and the very bottom), but I've always liked Ben Affleck and enjoyed Hollywoodland myself. He brought a great deal of sadness and conflict to his portrayal of George Reeves, and within this portmanteau narrative, it's the story of Reeves' final days that resonated greater than the investigation surrounding his death. At this time, Adrian Brody, who played the fictional detective on the scene of Reeves' death, had far more credibility than Affleck, but it's Ben who gave the more interesting and earnest portrayal of a troubled character. Diane Lane was excellent here, too; playing Reeves' lover, Toni Mannix. But the affection for the era and intricacies within the narrative helped make for a fascinating movie, despite a disruptive narrative technique. But this is more akin to being a mood piece, similar in some ways to Where the Truth Lies, but with much to offer anyone interested in the characters and the period. And Bob Hoskins finally gets an American accent right!


Nice overview of a very good film.

Oh, and I have been a member of this forum for a while, and I can state with near-certainty that yours is the first post ever to use the phrase "portmanteau narrative." ;-)

Re: Man Of Steel ---- what a letdown!!!

Tue Jan 14, 2014 5:30 pm

drjohncarpenter wrote:
r&b wrote:
drjohncarpenter wrote:Things have been going downhill since "Superman and the Mole Men." That one will never be topped.


LOL, get out those George Reeves boxsets and enjoy on this New Years Day. (love them myself). That is one interesting show. If you look at the first 2 seasons, you will see it as a film noir crime show. It slowly evolved into a kiddie show, but now & then there were some good crime story scripts. Ah, the 50's!


The first season with Phyllis Coates is gritty and special. After that it really varied, although the cast was always enjoyable, especially George Reeves. Imagine if George he lived another 20-30 years, he would have found himself the object of incredible adult affection from the people who grew up loving his work on TV. And he would have been astonished by the longevity of the series in reruns, creating generation after generation of new fans. Any comics convention where he was a guest would have been akin to Elvis coming to an event at the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame in Cleveland.


530000_George Reeves.JPG


Yes, he would have made a fortune at autograph shows.

Re: Man Of Steel ---- what a letdown!!!

Wed Jan 15, 2014 5:35 am

r&b wrote:
drjohncarpenter wrote:The first season with Phyllis Coates is gritty and special. After that it really varied, although the cast was always enjoyable, especially George Reeves. Imagine if George had lived just another 20-30 years, he would have found himself the object of incredible adult affection from the people who grew up loving his work on TV.

And he would have been astonished by the longevity of the series in reruns, creating generation after generation of new fans. Any comics convention where he was a guest would have been akin to Elvis coming to an event at the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame in Cleveland.


Image


Yes, he would have made a fortune at autograph shows.


No doubt, but many friends made clear that Reeves felt a little like his "Superman" role had diminished his stature as an actor, and certainly typecasting was going to be a problem as he sought new and different roles. He felt the first wave of kids would grow up, and he'd be forgotten. How wrong he was!