Off Topic Messages

Re: November 22, 1963 (Rare Photo)

Mon Jan 20, 2014 1:38 am

TCB-FAN wrote:As Oswald proclaimed himself over and over as he was carried away in a police car..."I was a fu**ing Patsy" !!!



One thing I noticed, TCB-FAN, is that Oswald was so very calm when in custody. This rings warning bells for me.

So much to this case.

Re: November 22, 1963 (Rare Photo)

Mon Jan 20, 2014 1:57 am

Mountain Misst wrote:
TCB-FAN wrote:As Oswald proclaimed himself over and over as he was carried away in a police car..."I was a fu**ing Patsy" !!!



One thing I noticed, TCB-FAN, is that Oswald was so very calm when in custody. This rings warning bells for me.

So much to this case.


Yep. He sure looks as guilty as sin. Proves nothing of course, just a thought.

When asked 'Did you kill the President?' Oswald replied 'No, I have not been charged with that. In fact, nobody has said that to me yet'.

I suggest that an innocent man, might have protested his innocene in slightly stronger terms. Proves nothing of course, just a thought.

Re: November 22, 1963 (Rare Photo)

Mon Jan 20, 2014 2:10 am

Those little wiener dogs may have been his whole world. A mans bond with his beloved dogs should not be discounted. Men have given their lives trying to save their dogs. Can you imagine walking out you're front door and looking into you're dogs loving eyes for the last time but not caring for their welfare.Even though you know you're not coming back.Now that's poppycock.Surely Ruby's heart would have softened at the sight of the gaze from his dogs.
On a side note.I found this guy under my wheelbarrow just before Xmas at 2:30 am.


Jak, I agree with you. Your loved ones have needs and they make it known, and due to the bond, you want to make them happy. The dogs would have been cared for, with tears in the eyes, etc.

Your girly girl, really, you have to know I love her, lol :D

Re: November 22, 1963 (Rare Photo)

Mon Jan 20, 2014 2:42 am

mike edwards66 wrote:
Mountain Misst wrote:
TCB-FAN wrote:As Oswald proclaimed himself over and over as he was carried away in a police car..."I was a fu**ing Patsy" !!!



One thing I noticed, TCB-FAN, is that Oswald was so very calm when in custody. This rings warning bells for me.

So much to this case.


Yep. He sure looks as guilty as sin. Proves nothing of course, just a thought.

When asked 'Did you kill the President?' Oswald replied 'No, I have not been charged with that. In fact, nobody has said that to me yet'.

I suggest that an innocent man, might have protested his innocene in slightly stronger terms. Proves nothing of course, just a thought.



I don't think Oswald did it, I know it would be frowned upon; however, body language, micro expressions, tell a great deal. Oswald to my observations, in this context, was not guilty. Why was he calm? I don't know, but there was a good reason for it.

Re: November 22, 1963 (Rare Photo)

Mon Jan 20, 2014 2:43 am

jak wrote:
Mountain Misst wrote:
Those little wiener dogs may have been his whole world. A mans bond with his beloved dogs should not be discounted. Men have given their lives trying to save their dogs. Can you imagine walking out you're front door and looking into you're dogs loving eyes for the last time but not caring for their welfare.Even though you know you're not coming back.Now that's poppycock.Surely Ruby's heart would have softened at the sight of the gaze from his dogs.
On a side note.I found this guy under my wheelbarrow just before Xmas at 2:30 am.


Jak, I agree with you. Your loved ones have needs and they make it known, and due to the bond, you want to make them happy. The dogs would have been cared for, with tears in the eyes, etc.

Your girly girl, really, you have to know I love her, lol :D


When I heard the comment about Ruby's dogs it really struck a chord with me. I honestly don't believe he could have just left them if he knew what he was going to do. Were basically prisoners in our home because we worry so much about the dogs. We hate to board them or leave them for extended periods. I can't imagine walking out the door and saying to heck with you guys. You're on you're own, good luck. Makes no sense to me.
Our newest addition will have company soon. We put a deposit on a Miniature Schnauzer before I found the surprise in the front yard that morning. It's going to be a madhouse!



LOL, all is so true, Jak :D We have a madhouse, it is wonderful :D

Re: November 22, 1963 (Rare Photo)

Mon Jan 20, 2014 4:06 am

I'm assuming that everyone who believes Oswald didn't kill Kennedy believes he had nothing to do with the murder of Dallas Police Officer J.D Tippet then? He was set up for that one too?

Re: November 22, 1963 (Rare Photo)

Mon Jan 20, 2014 7:13 am

On November 22, 1963, Lee Harvey Oswald, a 24-year-old former U.S. Marine who was working as a temporary employee at Texas School Book Depository building, fired the shots from the sixth floor that killed the 35th President of the United States, John F. Kennedy.

Case Closed:

Re: November 22, 1963 (Rare Photo)

Mon Jan 20, 2014 12:11 pm

johngael wrote:I'm assuming that everyone who believes Oswald didn't kill Kennedy believes he had nothing to do with the murder of Dallas Police Officer J.D Tippet then? He was set up for that one too?


Don't assume anything. That is matter in much dispute. It is possible he did it since he did go home to get a gun, but it is certainly not a settled matter.

As for his demeanor in custody, I think he appeared numb. This was just as everything erupted. This was not a trial.

And I don't know if he really was trying to protect anyone, or he just got involved with this group of people. (And the phony leaflets in New Orleans *prove* he was not a "pro-Castro activist.")

The "prevention theory" is one strong theory of how he ended up where he did. But it's irrelevant whether he was "a good boy" or just interested in finding (unwise) ways to make a living.

He was neither indicted nor convicted of either crime. He was murdered within 48 hours. In police custody.

That's how the "case" was closed. And why it will always be open.

Oh, and if Ruby loved his dogs that much, he sure must have had a STRONG motivation to do what he did. Not just a feeling.

rjm

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Re: November 22, 1963 (Rare Photo)

Mon Jan 20, 2014 2:12 pm

rjm wrote:
johngael wrote:I'm assuming that everyone who believes Oswald didn't kill Kennedy believes he had nothing to do with the murder of Dallas Police Officer J.D Tippet then? He was set up for that one too?


Don't assume anything. That is matter in much dispute. It is possible he did it since he did go home to get a gun, but it is certainly not a settled matter.
Don't forget the witness that saw Oswald shoot the officer.


rjm wrote:As for his demeanor in custody, I think he appeared numb.
Not too numb to give his clenched fist salute.



This is illuminating:
phpBB [video]

Re: November 22, 1963 (Rare Photo)

Mon Jan 20, 2014 4:25 pm

Mountain Misst wrote:
TCB-FAN wrote:As Oswald proclaimed himself over and over as he was carried away in a police car..."I was a fu**ing Patsy" !!!



One thing I noticed, TCB-FAN, is that Oswald was so very calm when in custody. This rings warning bells for me.

So much to this case.



Serial & Psycho killers have a calm demeanor about them as well. (ie : Ted Bundy) Oswald was no exception. He was a prick who actually thought he could outsmart the cops with his "charm".

Re: November 22, 1963 (Rare Photo)

Mon Jan 20, 2014 8:21 pm

promiseland wrote:On November 22, 1963, Lee Harvey Oswald, a 24-year-old former U.S. Marine who was working as a temporary employee at Texas School Book Depository building, fired the shots from the sixth floor that killed the 35th President of the United States, John F. Kennedy.

Case Closed:


BINGO!

Re: November 22, 1963 (Rare Photo)

Mon Jan 20, 2014 8:27 pm

TCB-FAN wrote:
ranskal wrote:
Actually, I ordered Murder in Dealey Plaza before I left town.



Randy




Just keep in mind that book you ordered is written by one man's interpretation of what happened on 11-22-63. Everyone has their own version of what took place that day. The author's thesis is no better than what is reported on Fox News documentaries of the event. Seems like everyone, including their aunt has their own story to tell about 11--22--63. I've come to the conclusion that no one is closer to the truth than the person(s) responsible of that horrible deed that took place that awful day. If you think the author has no political agenda behind selling his book, think again.


I appreciate the heads up, and realize that it is just the author's opinion. Doc seems adamant that the truth is in the books he listed, so I thought I would play along and read one. I just wish I would have researched the author before I purchased the book.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_H._Fetzer

Yikes! :shock: This guy seems out there...

Re: November 22, 1963 (Rare Photo)

Mon Jan 20, 2014 8:36 pm

mike edwards66 wrote:Yep. He sure looks as guilty as sin. Proves nothing of course, just a thought.

When asked 'Did you kill the President?' Oswald replied 'No, I have not been charged with that. In fact, nobody has said that to me yet'.

I suggest that an innocent man, might have protested his innocene in slightly stronger terms. Proves nothing of course, just a thought.


Try reading one of my suggested books, and you will have much to ponder, instead of posting things that only continue to push the lie.



johngael wrote:I'm assuming that everyone who believes Oswald didn't kill Kennedy believes he had nothing to do with the murder of Dallas Police Officer J.D Tippet then? He was set up for that one too?


There is not a shred of credible evidence Lee Oswald was involved with either murder on 11-22-1963.

It is astounding how people must weigh in on this topic while having almost zero knowledge of the events of this horrible day.

Of course, questioning the legitimacy of one's institutions is a frightening concept. Especially if you carefully study all the facts, including those that continue to be suppressed to this day, and it turns out everything you thought was true and correct is a lie. So, instead, people cling to the lie. It is comforting. The evidence is right here, on this topic. It is sad.



ranskal wrote:
promiseland wrote:On November 22, 1963, Lee Harvey Oswald, a 24-year-old former U.S. Marine who was working as a temporary employee at Texas School Book Depository building, fired the shots from the sixth floor that killed the 35th President of the United States, John F. Kennedy.

Case Closed:


BINGO!


Thank you for proving that you were being disingenuous when you said you would read one of my suggested books. In truth, you actually have no interest in engaging in an intelligent and informed discussion.

Remain incurious and uninformed, but please, quit yammering about a subject where you clearly know very, very little.

Thank you.

Re: November 22, 1963 (Rare Photo)

Mon Jan 20, 2014 9:50 pm

Doc, are you finished discrediting and belittling practically every member who posted on this thread ? Good, now please leave. Thank You.

Re: November 22, 1963 (Rare Photo)

Mon Jan 20, 2014 10:28 pm

drjohncarpenter wrote:
ranskal wrote:
promiseland wrote:On November 22, 1963, Lee Harvey Oswald, a 24-year-old former U.S. Marine who was working as a temporary employee at Texas School Book Depository building, fired the shots from the sixth floor that killed the 35th President of the United States, John F. Kennedy.

Case Closed:


BINGO!


Thank you for proving that you were being disingenuous when you said you would read one of my suggested books. In truth, you actually have no interest in engaging in an intelligent and informed discussion.

Remain incurious and uninformed, but please, quit yammering about a subject where you clearly know very, very little.

Thank you.


What is your deal? You should read my posts with care and not jump to conclusions, you are only embarrassing yourself when you don't.

Just so you understand, just because someone doesn't agree with what you think, does not make them uninformed or wrong.

I will read this book when I get it (like I stated before), and will let you know my feelings on it. After researching the author after I purchased the book, I am a bit skeptical as to what he is going to have to say.

I put up with your yammering, you should be able to put up with mine. :wink:
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.

Re: November 22, 1963 (Rare Photo)

Mon Jan 20, 2014 10:33 pm

ranskal wrote:
What is your deal? You should read my posts with care and not jump to conclusions, you are only embarrassing yourself when you don't.


I put up with your yammering, you should be able to put up with mine. :wink:


Don't let the Doc get to your nerves. He gets his thrills & kicks by hammering down on people & making them feel like they're a worthless part of society. He's only making a complete prick & jack*** out of himself in the process. ::rocks

Re: November 22, 1963 (Rare Photo)

Tue Jan 21, 2014 1:37 am

TCB-FAN wrote:
Mountain Misst wrote:
TCB-FAN wrote:As Oswald proclaimed himself over and over as he was carried away in a police car..."I was a fu**ing Patsy" !!!



One thing I noticed, TCB-FAN, is that Oswald was so very calm when in custody. This rings warning bells for me.

So much to this case.



Serial & Psycho killers have a calm demeanor about them as well. (ie : Ted Bundy) Oswald was no exception. He was a prick who actually thought he could outsmart the cops with his "charm".



I watched an interview with Bundy after your comment - he was smooth.

Re: November 22, 1963 (Rare Photo)

Tue Jan 21, 2014 1:39 am

Mountain Misst wrote:
TCB-FAN wrote:
Mountain Misst wrote:
TCB-FAN wrote:As Oswald proclaimed himself over and over as he was carried away in a police car..."I was a fu**ing Patsy" !!!



One thing I noticed, TCB-FAN, is that Oswald was so very calm when in custody. This rings warning bells for me.

So much to this case.



Serial & Psycho killers have a calm demeanor about them as well. (ie : Ted Bundy) Oswald was no exception. He was a prick who actually thought he could outsmart the cops with his "charm".



I watched an interview with Bundy after your comment - he was smooth.




He was very charismatic & articulate as well. That's the scary part of it.

Re: November 22, 1963 (Rare Photo)

Tue Jan 21, 2014 2:10 am

drjohncarpenter wrote:Try reading one of my suggested books, and you will have much to ponder, instead of posting things that only continue to push the lie.

Well it's only 'the lie' if one believes in the conspiracy.

Another way of looking at it, might be, that 'the lie', is the lie that is pushed by the authors of conspiracy books.

But before we start reading, lets look at the evidence that is staring us in the face:

In custody Oswald's demeanor is not that of a soldier waiting for help to arrive, but that of a punk caught and trapped. Oswald looked as guilty as sin, shifty almost to the point of being cocky.

This is never more exemplified than in his clenched fist salute to reporters. This calm intentional act of defiance speaks volumes more than a truckload of conspiracy books.

Re: November 22, 1963 (Rare Photo)

Tue Jan 21, 2014 3:53 am

mike edwards66 wrote:
drjohncarpenter wrote:Try reading one of my suggested books, and you will have much to ponder, instead of posting things that only continue to push the lie.

Well it's only 'the lie' if one believes in the conspiracy.


The U.S. government confirmed 30+ years ago it was a conspiracy, one which required much more investigation. Of course, there hasn't been a single bit of work done since.


mike edwards66 wrote:This is never more exemplified than in his clenched fist salute to reporters. This calm intentional act of defiance speaks volumes more than a truckload of conspiracy books.


It's not a "clenched fist salute." If you knew the subject, this would not even be a point, let alone one full of hyperbole. You are making assumptions which enable you to continue to take comfort in your institutions.

In your example, one that "speaks volumes more than a truckload of conspiracy books," the photographer who caught the moment and the police detective accompanying Oswald are on record that the gesture meant nothing at all.

The lawmen at Oswald's side
Detectives escorted Kennedy's accused killer through chaotic hours
David Flick, Dallas Morning News
Thursday, November 22, 2007


[snip]

Mr. Boyd, 80, who lives in the Navarro County town of Blooming Grove, was featured prominently in the famous photograph of a seemingly defiant Oswald raising a manacled fist, an image that has long intrigued scholars and conspiracy theorists.

"It's one of the most iconic images of Oswald. It's just a terrific photo," said Gary Mack, curator of The Sixth Floor Museum at Dealey Plaza. "But what does it show?"

Some thought Oswald's upraised fist was a political gesture, a symbol of Communist solidarity. Others thought it was simply an in-your-face jab at authority.

But Mr. Boyd and other witnesses believe the gesture meant nothing at all.

Some say Mr. Boyd and Mr. Sims were pushing or pulling Oswald in a way that made his arms go up. Mr. Boyd denies that he was pulling Oswald, but the hallways were chaotic during those historic hours, and he said the prisoner may have been reacting to jostling by on-lookers.

Bill Winfrey, the Dallas Morning News photographer who shot the photo, said the motion was too quick to have been an intentional symbol.

"He was just being pushed, you could see his arms going up as he was being shoved down the hallway," said Mr. Winfrey, 74, who is now retired and living in Kemp. "They were moving him pretty fast."


Through it all, Oswald stayed composed. His initial capture by police resulted in a tussle that ended in a black eye. Oswald later told the two detectives that he deserved it.

Most of the time, he was a model prisoner who would occasionally engage in small talk with the two detectives about his life in Russia.

"He didn't give us any trouble at all. He went along like a little puppy dog when Boyd and I had him," Mr. Sims said.

There were two exceptions, Mr. Boyd said.

A reporter asked Oswald if he had shot the president, and the accused assassin snapped – in a quote that launched a thousand conspiracy theories – "I'm just a patsy."

A lesser-known incident occurred during an interrogation with FBI Agent James Hosty, who had upset Oswald's estranged wife before the assassination by contacting her to determine his whereabouts.

When Agent Hosty introduced himself in the interrogation room, Oswald exploded.

"He slammed his handcuffs on the table and said, 'You don't have to tell me who you are. You're the one who was out accosting my wife,' " Mr. Boyd said.

A lack of emotion was more characteristic of Oswald during the interrogations, Mr. Boyd said.

"He talked and he answered all the questions, but I don't think he was telling the truth," the former detective said.

When Oswald was shown the photo of himself posing in the yard of his Oak Cliff apartment with the Italian rifle used in the assassination, Oswald denied its authenticity.

"He said, 'I know all about trick photography. They've put my face on someone else's body,' " Mr. Boyd recalled.

http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcontent/dws/news/localnews/stories/DN-sonnyboyd_22met.ART.North.Edition1.36f1cb0.html



This is a 50-year old case with scores and scores of unanswered questions. I've addressed many of them here. I've suggested books to read that will at least allow one to understand the events of the day and make an informed judgment.

Use your common sense. Educate yourself. And be prepared to end up wondering what America really means.

::rocks
Last edited by drjohncarpenter on Tue Jan 21, 2014 11:30 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Re: November 22, 1963 (Rare Photo)

Tue Jan 21, 2014 1:24 pm

These kind of topics ... well, ... they will always remain. And books with new 'facts' will continue to be published. And even more documentaries will be made.
And I am aware the case will never be closed.

Over the past 20 or 30 years or so, I think I must have seen each documentary ever made, from all points of view. And where I always believed Oswald was indeed 'just' a patsy, and even though I am still 100% convinced it was a government conspiracy to kill JFK, since a few years I am shifting towards the idea that Oswald was involved but did not fire that last shot. I have no doubt that the shot that killed the President did not come from the Depository. And my thoughts are not 'simply' based on the Zapruder film and the direction JFK's head is moving after that final shot.

I firmly believe that every person who takes the time to dive into this matter with an open mind, will come to the conclusion that Oswald could not have acted alone. And if he did not act alone, we call something like this a conspiracy.

Re: November 22, 1963 (Rare Photo)

Tue Jan 21, 2014 3:26 pm

drjohncarpenter wrote:It's not a "clenched fist salute." If you knew the subject, this would not even be a point, let alone one full of hyperbole. You are making assumptions which enable you to continue to take comfort in your institutions.

In your example, one that "speaks volumes more than a truckload of conspiracy books," the photographer who caught the moment and the police detective accompanying Oswald are on record that the gesture meant nothing at all.


Really, well as you do know the subject, you will know that TWO photographers caught Oswald giving his clenched fist salute. Conspiracy believers have of course, long clung to the notion that Oswald was just putting his hands up, or showing the reporters his handcuffs. But yet again, if we look at the evidence that is staring us in the face we can see things for what they are.

The first and most famous (AP) photograph:
Image

And the lesser known second (UPI) photograph that first appeared in the 1964 American Heritage book 'Four Days':
Image

Both photos (especially the second) show a definite clenched right fist, and an unclenched, much limper left hand. As I rather succinctly put it earlier:
mike edwards66 wrote: This is never more exemplified than in his clenched fist salute to reporters. This calm intentional act of defiance speaks volumes more than a truckload of conspiracy books.


Now I'm not saying there wasn't a conspiracy, as I said earlier, there might have been, but we'll never know. What I am saying, is whichever way you cut it Oswald was guilty. He was not a soldier waiting for help that never arrived, He was a punk, a smart punk, that has outsmarted all the guys that champion his innocence. Just a thought, but what if I'm right.

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Last edited by mike edwards66 on Thu Jan 23, 2014 1:45 pm, edited 2 times in total.

Re: November 22, 1963 (Rare Photo)

Tue Jan 21, 2014 8:26 pm

Image

Re: November 22, 1963 (Rare Photo)

Tue Jan 21, 2014 11:31 pm

mike edwards66 wrote:What I am saying, is whichever way you cut it Oswald was guilty.


Have fun!

Re: November 22, 1963 (Rare Photo)

Wed Jan 22, 2014 12:53 pm

What does that mean? He made a fist? He consistently declared his innocence, always. So, I seriously doubt this is any admission of guilt because we don't have any idea what he was thinking -- except for what he said.

Black power salutes did not yet exist, and this is not a victory sign.

All it means, logically, is "I will fight. I won't give up." If he actually meant any message.

If he wanted to claim his pride, as every other major assassin has done, he would have done so.

He was fighting very hard for just his basic civil rights. He wanted representation, which was his right. He wanted a damn shower. (Eventually, they apparently relented.) He had an attorney in mind, which was his right. He wasn't going down without a fight.

If you interpret his gestures as that of a killer, that is what you will see.

Apparently, many people have no regard for the presumption of innocence and due process of law. That is very sad, because those rights define us as a society and as a people.

If any of you ever get in a jam, I would hope that you are not prejudged in this way. And that you will fight for your rights.

rjm

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